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  • #31
    Originally posted by LPGuy
    These are the ideas I have issue with. You seem to be saying that when you observe someone attempting to steal, you try to scare them into leaving. If they leave without stealing, fine. But if they come back? Do you try to scare them away the second time as well? Give them another chance to leave without being apprehended? If so, you're only going to be wasting your time with the same people over and over as N.A. Corbier pointed out. Now you've just spent twice as much time with the same one person...

    I don't see how that can be productive, scaring away the same people over and over again until they actually try to walk out the door with your product and you're then forced to apprehend them. While you're wasting time scaring that same person into leaving for the second or third time, you've got other people stealing on the other side of the store.

    Where on this thread did I say to scare him/her? TPS is a deterent. If one feels a possible theft may take place and uses his/her presence to stop it great. Not after a concealment! If same people are coming to your store each day or so thats a red flag! If you havent caught them yet then your a poor Lp or they are not stealing and yes you wasted your time. Why are you scaring same people? Are they morons? If a thief enters a store and after two or more attempts cant shake LP/TPS they arent going to waste their time either! Yes other people are stealing which is why prevention works better it takes less time accomplishes the same it prevents theft! Everything I have said I have done with success so much so raises and early promotions were handed to me. Not to mention hiring of other retailers who want to employ my methods

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    • #32
      I used to be a TPS for Target. We were beneficial in the fact that when we roamed the floor in a uniform, we could flush out the people for the APS to watch. People who were stealing would either A) leave (job well done for us) or B) steer clear of us, making them suspicious to the APS who could usually effect an apprehension with our help. Having a uniformed guard at the red and green doors (front and lawn and garden) deterred a ton of pushouts and sometimes people would walk in, see that we were working, cuss at us and leave the store (job well done for us).

      I personally did not care that we did not get the apprehension as long as we made a PMR (productive merchandise recovery). As a TPS, you are graded on how many preventions you do in a time period.

      Also, I was on the forefront of the TPS introduction (old King Roger days) and the TPS cut shoplifting losses significantly because we usually worked with another TPS and an APS. Now I think they have cut back some TPS staffing.

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      • #33
        Thank you Steve you are correct prevention reduces shrink much better than agressive arrest policy. Yes it was job well done!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by panther10758
          TPS is a deterent. If one feels a possible theft may take place and uses his/her presence to stop it great.
          I think I've made it clear that I don't disagree with this point. TPSs are extremely helpful. I often wish we had utilized uniformed officers more often.

          Originally posted by panther10758
          Why are you scaring same people?
          I never had to scare the same people over and over, because I usually apprehended them the first time.

          I think I'm done with this thread, because it's apparent that we're not understanding each other very well.

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          • #35
            LPGuy/Panther,

            I think you both have the same idea as far as loss prevention goes. You are all for deterrence, but some people do need to be apprehended, thus Target's so called 'two pronged' approach to Asset Protection. The police use this approach often, in their uniformed patrol divisions and undercover officers.

            I believe there needs to be a good mix of prevention and apprehensions, especially if you are in a big box or department store setting.

            What do you guys think of the uniformed officer? Are mall security officers or the Target TPS a greater deterrence? I know at some of the smaller stores in area malls, mall security will do a "walk through" for the mall store, such as American Eagle or Aeropostale.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by LPCap
              LPGuy/Panther,

              I think you both have the same idea as far as loss prevention goes. You are all for deterrence, but some people do need to be apprehended, thus Target's so called 'two pronged' approach to Asset Protection. The police use this approach often, in their uniformed patrol divisions and undercover officers.

              I believe there needs to be a good mix of prevention and apprehensions, especially if you are in a big box or department store setting.

              What do you guys think of the uniformed officer? Are mall security officers or the Target TPS a greater deterrence? I know at some of the smaller stores in area malls, mall security will do a "walk through" for the mall store, such as American Eagle or Aeropostale.
              Thanks for the input. As you gathered, I advocate prevention through the fact that I made it as difficult as possible for someone to steal. However, if they proved they were intent on doing so, I let them follow through with it and then met them outside with a badge and handcuffs.

              What do I think of the uniformed officer? I think having an in-store uniformed officer is great. Not only is a there a deterrence effect when people enter the doors and see the officer standing there, but they can handle other functions such as monitoring the parking lot and handling interactions with customers who wish to speak with security. We utilized uniformed contract officers on a few occassions when we needed some extra assistance. The uniformed officer can also keep the plainclothes officers aware via radio of suspicious subjects entering the store.

              Mall security is also a very handy asset when utilized properly. Most mall security departments that I know of handle everything in the common areas of the mall and will assist smaller merchants with crime situations. They tend to allow the larger department store security departments to handle their own business but will assist if requested (we would often call mall security to wait outside the store to provide back up if needed). Another useful function that mall security can provide is to keep an eye out for known shoplifters (especially organized retail theft gang members) in the common areas of the mall and the vehicles that they drive. Mall security can then notify department store security departments that those subjects are on the property/in their parking lot.

              I don't think that roving uniformed patrol officers serve as much of a deterrent to thieves, however. Many thefts take place in fitting rooms where thieves are confident that no one is aware of their actions. However, having a uniformed officer standing at the door is a better deterrent, especially if combined with EAS (electronic article surveillance, better known as the door alarms that sound when a security sensor is passed through). Thieves preparing to walk out may be deterred if they realize that the alarm will sound and a security officer is standing nearby.

              Obviously, if they are an experienced or professional lifter, however, very little of this will deter them.

              Comment


              • #37
                I have always been a huge supporter of numbered tags for fitting rooms. Its simple and tells you exactly what you need to know. Its cheap and effective. Once I installed this simple program in my place of employment thefts (especially in lingerie "bras") went down by about 75%

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                • #38
                  Fitting room attendants are only as good as the program behind it. Panther, how did management respond to paying a person to monitor the fitting rooms?

                  I wish mall security looked a little more professional. If you go into Target, the door guard has a nice dark blue uniform, decent duty belt with cuffs and a radio. They have a Target issued badge and patches. Mall Security on the other hand, wear white shirts (usually) which get very dirty, sewn on badges and those big hats. Most do not wear anything but a radio.

                  I think that security officers can only be as good as how they present themselves. A sharp, well dressed officer, with equipped duty belt will deter more people than most ill dressed mall guards.

                  I also think that the TPS should be allowed to freely roam the store and pop up when needed, vs stay at the doors all day long.

                  Here is a video of LP (or mall security??)

                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=9T-vuk5rw_Y

                  Comments...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    It wasnt a question of any special person. Fitting rooms were monitored by associates who handed customers numbered tags that represented the number of items brought into room. Now we all know that assocaites would not make stops but most customers dont! This (like uniformed personnel) acted as deterent to theft. I had much success with that program and losses especially of bras and panties went way down! Its imple inexpensive and it works! Its not a coverall solution but it is one means to reduce fitting room thefts

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm a great supporter of placing wrap (register) stations just outside fitting rooms. This, along with mandatory placement of sales associates (with very specific duties) in the department goes a long way in reducing fitting room thefts. I have even used LP dollars to accomplish this.
                      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by LPCap
                        Fitting room attendants are only as good as the program behind it. Panther, how did management respond to paying a person to monitor the fitting rooms?

                        I wish mall security looked a little more professional. If you go into Target, the door guard has a nice dark blue uniform, decent duty belt with cuffs and a radio. They have a Target issued badge and patches. Mall Security on the other hand, wear white shirts (usually) which get very dirty, sewn on badges and those big hats. Most do not wear anything but a radio.

                        I think that security officers can only be as good as how they present themselves. A sharp, well dressed officer, with equipped duty belt will deter more people than most ill dressed mall guards.

                        I also think that the TPS should be allowed to freely roam the store and pop up when needed, vs stay at the doors all day long.

                        Here is a video of LP (or mall security??)

                        http://youtube.com/watch?v=9T-vuk5rw_Y

                        Comments...
                        I'll address the video after the mall thing.

                        Ninety-Nine percent of the time, the mall security force is contract, and the contract company tries to go out of their way to prevent the impression that the guard is a law enforcement officer, or more importantly, is there to do anything but observe and report.

                        Companies shy away from arming guards with cuffs and intermediate weapons because of the added liability and loss in profits. The radio is usually client provided, which is why they have that. If you arm someone, you have to train them, which means that you have to spend money on instructors, having classes, etc...

                        Some operations, usually very much catered to malls only, fill the niche where the general guard service lacks: Providing security that bothers to do stuff.

                        As to the video, those two needed a course in defensive and arrest tactics, bad.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Registers placed near exits and near fitting rooms are a great deterrent.

                          I also support having associates count customers into the fitting room and keep track of the number of items brought in, especially in lingerie and junior's departments. We would train our associates to do this. However, being an upscale department store, the management would not allow numbered door hangars or anything along those lines as they felt it discomforted the customer, made us appear untrusting, and looked tacky.

                          I'll watch the video once I get home...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by LPGuy
                            Registers placed near exits and near fitting rooms are a great deterrent.

                            I also support having associates count customers into the fitting room and keep track of the number of items brought in, especially in lingerie and junior's departments. We would train our associates to do this. However, being an upscale department store, the management would not allow numbered door hangars or anything along those lines as they felt it discomforted the customer, made us appear untrusting, and looked tacky.

                            I'll watch the video once I get home...
                            I was in a store on Rodeo Drive (obviously upscale) once that didn't think it was "tacky" to have numbered hangers. You could look at it like they're saying "Hey - this merchandise is really valuable, and worth protecting". In fact, the customer might get the idea that if it's worth protecting it's also worth buying...must be quality stuff.

                            Everyone these days knows how rampant shoplifting is - even (or, especially) in high-end stores and I doubt the average customer would think a thing about most control methods that are commonly used today, with the exception of cameras in certain places of course!
                            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                            • #44
                              Another video, this time a better use of force and handcuffing technique.

                              http://youtube.com/watch?v=b2aqDzK0Dsg

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by LPCap
                                Another video, this time a better use of force and handcuffing technique.

                                http://youtube.com/watch?v=b2aqDzK0Dsg
                                The comments make it, as usual.

                                "Mace ftw!" (For the Win)

                                Cause, yeah. Someone had the right idea... You spray the LP guy, and he is armed with OC as well... He's gonna hunt you down and put a hurting on you since you're now an active resistor felon.
                                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                                Comment

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