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Wal-Mart Parking Lots: Duty to do more than Observe?

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  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Thank you for your comments.

    I have had "visionary" clients contact me to conduct crime analysis before securing future building sites. The information was used to project the level of security measures they needed to employ.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Security Consultant
    I have been involved frequestly in litigation cases where assaults to customers have occured on a retailer's property - including parking lots. The real liability kicks in where there is a history of violent activities in the area where the store is located. It falls under, "could of known-should of known."

    One of the tools I use when researching crime analysis reports is CAP Index:

    http://crimecast.capindex.com/about.aspx
    Security Consultant:
    You hit the nail directly on the head. It is all about foreseeability! CAP index gives you the past history to foresee what the immediacy holds and a protend of future events if all other factors remain constant.
    When you mention CAP to most potential clients, their eyes glaze over. Many in our craft run around like blind dogs in a meat factory. What a pity.
    Again, you are on point.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Duty to Protect

    I have been involved frequently in litigation cases where assaults to customers have occured on a retailer's property - including parking lots. The real liability kicks in where there is a history of violent activities in the area where the store is located. It falls under, "could of known-should of known."

    One of the tools I use when researching crime analysis reports is CAP Index:

    http://crimecast.capindex.com/about.aspx

    Leave a comment:


  • james2go30
    replied
    yup

    Originally posted by Mall Director
    LOL, thank you! This whole mentality of "fixing an issue after it has taken place", or the increase in services proven after the loss, is sickening. Any suggestions on turning this mentality around when it comes to requesting more? LOL!
    I believe to prevent as many incidents as possible rather then wait till they happen...can't prevent them all but can damn sure prevent a good deal of them....the site I work at complains about unauthorised people in the parking garage but refuse tohave the gate at the entrance shut and will not let us have garage patrol officer...that and they cut us to one officer per shift.

    Leave a comment:


  • officergossman
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Wal*Mart doesn't impress me with their security, LP aside. As I've already noted, Greeters are being pressed into service as substitute LPO's when the theft tower activates. I've only observed security at one Target store and the officer was equipped for "business" if needed, including cuffs and OC. If that is the case at other Target stores, then I'd rather work for them than Wal*Mart.
    Yes, The WM I worked at would have their greeters be sub-LPs and the funny thing was most of their greeters were little old ladies and injured or handicap seniors...smooth move walmart LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • security steve
    replied
    Originally posted by cnick001
    Hmm, when I worked as a Target TPS in NJ about a year back, the written policy (not sure if it was company or store) was for all TPS personell to carry a radio and cuffs, but nothing more. It specifically outlined that any chemical defensive device, or armor vest were grounds for termination.
    Yea I was working in early 2000 when they first started implementing the TPS. They wore white uniforms and then switched to tan. Now I think they are dark blue. The TPS were equipped with cuffs, spray and a radio, but basically told to look pretty. The fact that they gave them (and us) cuffs and then told us not to use them was kinda a slap in the face. I left right as they were going to the NVCI (non violent crisis intervention) and trying to get away from cuffing people to those benches.

    In fact, if we used cuffs, we had to thoroughly document it in the CIRS and call the DAPTL immediately. Maybe our DAPTL was cool and let us slide on minor stuff like that. In fact, in some urban market stores, they provide stab resistant vests for the AP.

    Leave a comment:


  • cnick001
    replied
    Originally posted by security steve
    The TPS (uniformed guard) carries a radio, cuffs and OC as applicable. He checks the alarm towers and responds to all emergencies in the store.
    Hmm, when I worked as a Target TPS in NJ about a year back, the written policy (not sure if it was company or store) was for all TPS personell to carry a radio and cuffs, but nothing more. It specifically outlined that any chemical defensive device, or armor vest were grounds for termination.
    Although that could be a result of New Jersey's duty to retreat laws. I left that job rather quickly as our actual policy for dealing with shoplifters was basically:
    "If a customer is the least bit uncooperative, run away to the camera room, lock yourself in, and try and get their license plate on the DVR."
    But then we get yelled at for not recovering the merchandise. (granted, doing anything to recover it was grounds for termination, as we only had TPS in the store, and none of us were trained or allowed to make apprehensions or confront customers)
    Last edited by cnick001; 11-16-2006, 06:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • EMTjon
    replied
    D'oh... Ok... I know what those are.

    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    It's hard not to laugh whenever I hear that recording.
    I've never heard it before.... maybe I'll have to make an effort to set one off

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    It's hard not to laugh whenever I hear that recording.
    Yep. Same recording, all Wal-marts. Got so tired of hearing it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Sensomatic (or other) EAS "alarm towers." They detect live EAS tags. Wal-Mart's version does the "We're sorry. Either our associate is an idiot or you're a thief. Come back, please, so we can sort this out. GET BACK HERE!"
    It's hard not to laugh whenever I hear that recording.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Sensomatic (or other) EAS "alarm towers." They detect live EAS tags. Wal-Mart's version does the "We're sorry. Either our associate is an idiot or you're a thief. Come back, please, so we can sort this out. GET BACK HERE!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    When I use that term, I'm referring to the side-by-side detectors that you walk through when exiting the store. Unless the item(s) has been processed properly at the register, an audible and sometimes visual alarm sounds to warn that shoplifting may have occurred. Lots of false alarms though.

    Leave a comment:


  • EMTjon
    replied
    What is an "alarm tower"???

    Leave a comment:


  • security steve
    replied
    NA, you kinda got it right. He is not really there to observe and report, but to deter criminal activity, operate cameras and assist the APS in apprehensions. The TPS (uniformed guard) carries a radio, cuffs and OC as applicable. He checks the alarm towers and responds to all emergencies in the store.

    Target is going away from the TPS and heading to all undercover APS.

    The reason I know this is because I worked as an APS for Target a while back as a pt job. And yes, Target has a much better Loss Prevention than WalMart.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Our Target uniform carries no weapons (He can, though, no law against it except firearm), and is very much "observe and report."

    Leave a comment:

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