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  • Does size matter?

    No this isn't spam advertisement haha.

    I'm soon being promoted to a department manager for loss prevention within my store. It it the responsibility of my position to go undercover and make stops, often alone. I came here because, while I feel I can take care of myself, I am relatively small: 5'9" 150 lbs. I have never made a stop on my own before but I am fully willing to do so. I want to know what you guys think about my situation and what tips you think I should know that I may not learn during certification.

    By the way, I work for a "hands on/reasonable force" company.

  • #2
    I recommend becoming a student of "verbal Judo".
    Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
    Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

    Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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    • #3
      What kind of retailer? Remember, no merchandise is worth your, or someone else's life.

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      • #4
        Curtis, we learn verbal deescalation techniques during certification and I have seen some agents use them pretty effectively. I think I will be able to do the same, its just those 1% of people that can't be reasoned with that I'm concerned about.

        I work for a big box retailer. Grocery, electronics, clothes, housewares, etc.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
          I recommend becoming a student of "verbal Judo".
          LOL, solid advice. Well Nick, when it comes to being a trooper or a Loss Prevention Officer, size never matters. It's your investigative savvy, skills knowledge and ability to make and close a case. The best never break a sweat, in most cases.

          Trust your training, use your skills, brains and technology. LP officer is a good and important gig in today's world.

          Some have a saying, pay the restitution or face the fullest extent of the law. Good luck!
          Pop Pop - It reminds me of an old statement by my Master Sergeant. "A Good Run is better then a Bad Stand".

          Sec Trainer- Pop Pop: Hope you don't mind if I quote your Master Sergeant. He was a very smart man.

          Pop Pop- Yes Sir, Thank you Senior Instructor Sec Trainer, hope you don't mind if I place your quote into my Signature?

          Sec Trainer- Permission granted, recruit. Now, police the company area!


          flat out cool..

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
            I recommend becoming a student of "verbal Judo".
            Awesome advice! ...I own several copies of the book and have been known to give away copies.

            In response to the OP's question, Does size matter?

            Someone once said, "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you?" (Yes, I threw out a Yoda quote )

            I'm 5-06 and 160 lbs. By all means, not the most intimidating guy you'll come across. Self-confidence is everything. Practice your approach and responses to any resistance. As an LPM I constantly role-played with my team. They all though it was silly, but we had a pretty good amount of apprehensions with little to no force being used. You worry about the 1% that won't comply and that's understandable. Hopefully, your company has given you effective self-defense training if that's their expectation. I also have military, law enforcement and martial arts training that helps me deal with the very few that haven't complied.

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            • #7
              nope!

              Size definitely does not matter. I am five foot nothing on a good day and have brought down huge ORT guys (with help from.management) sceaving thousands of dollars worth of merch. My comlany is "hands off" use force only equal to what the actor is using and dont leave the sidewalk. It is all about how you carry yourself physically and professionally. IF **** does hit the fan and you find yourself "fighting" use enough force to protect yourself as not to injure the actor. I have had knives pulled and have found myself on the bottom of a 5 person pig pile. I figured i was safer on the floor as they all hit eachother thinking they were hitting me. I came out with a busted knee but it could have been worse. And since i didnt hit them, they got felony retail and assault charges. Size doesnt matter just do what your supposed to do and keep positive. Oh, and i am a female .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ctx2 View Post
                Size definitely does not matter. I am five foot nothing on a good day and have brought down huge ORT guys (with help from.management) sceaving thousands of dollars worth of merch. My comlany is "hands off" use force only equal to what the actor is using and dont leave the sidewalk. It is all about how you carry yourself physically and professionally. IF **** does hit the fan and you find yourself "fighting" use enough force to protect yourself as not to injure the actor. I have had knives pulled and have found myself on the bottom of a 5 person pig pile. I figured i was safer on the floor as they all hit eachother thinking they were hitting me. I came out with a busted knee but it could have been worse. And since i didnt hit them, they got felony retail and assault charges. Size doesnt matter just do what your supposed to do and keep positive. Oh, and i am a female .
                "My comlany is "hands off" use force only equal to what the actor is using and dont leave the sidewalk" - If that is the case your company is not "hands off'."
                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ctx2 View Post
                  Size definitely does not matter. I am five foot nothing on a good day and have brought down huge ORT guys (with help from.management) sceaving thousands of dollars worth of merch. My comlany is "hands off" use force only equal to what the actor is using and dont leave the sidewalk. It is all about how you carry yourself physically and professionally. IF **** does hit the fan and you find yourself "fighting" use enough force to protect yourself as not to injure the actor. I have had knives pulled and have found myself on the bottom of a 5 person pig pile. I figured i was safer on the floor as they all hit eachother thinking they were hitting me. I came out with a busted knee but it could have been worse. And since i didnt hit them, they got felony retail and assault charges. Size doesnt matter just do what your supposed to do and keep positive. Oh, and i am a female .
                  A couple of the best retail security officers I know are a at about 5,5 feet or so, and one of them is also female, so I'd say that more important than the size is your "fighting spirit", ie. the ability to react in a tough spot and how you carry yourself.

                  On the other hand, I'm 6,6 feet and 231 pounds, and I've definitely found the size somewhat helpful at work. In addition to apprehensions we're expected to intervene in case of disturbance (drunk/drugged up people doing whatever drunk/drugged up people usually do, mental cases, etc.) and more often than not I can manage both apprehensions and disturbances (in which case we throw them out, unless in a "crowd control" account where we are legally allowed to apprehend someone for breaching the peace if removal from the premises proves ineffective, for instance if the same guy returns two or three times on the premises) without having to resort to physical force.

                  And if I've needed to use force, the size is something of an advantage unless the subject has a knife or something in which case I'd rather unload the can of pepper spray rather than play "Bas Rutten: Mall Edition". What I'm trying to say is that the size does come into account to a certain degree, but it's definitely not everything.

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                  • #10
                    Cutis, what i meant to say was: At my company we are not to initiate physical contact unless absolutely necessary. The point.of.my post wasnt.to debate hands.off/hands on. The point.of my post was to say i do not believe size matters. I apologize if i was not clear enough.

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                    • #11
                      I commented on it because you included it in your post.
                      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        With all do respect; I have read a lot of your replies to other people and if I critiqued you on the wording used in most of your sentences you would be made out to be a BIG ol' bottle of ASSprin dropped into a rabbit HOLE. In my opinion we are all here to share stories. And ask advice. I myself was telling a story. I will however, be more precise when giving my opinion based on my training, ability and experience.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ctx2 View Post
                          With all do respect; I have read a lot of your replies to other people and if I critiqued you on the wording used in most of your sentences you would be made out to be a BIG ol' bottle of ASSprin dropped into a rabbit HOLE. In my opinion we are all here to share stories. And ask advice. I myself was telling a story. I will however, be more precise when giving my opinion based on my training, ability and experience.
                          All that because I commented on your "hands off" post? Really?
                          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                          • #14
                            Youre just rude and come off as one of those people who think they know everything. But, hey its water under the bridge. Take care.

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                            • #15
                              And Curtis is the rude one?
                              Sergeant Phil Esterhaus: "Hey, let's be careful out there.."

                              THE VIEWS EXPRESSED ON THIS WEBSITE/BLOG ARE MINE ALONE AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEWS OF MY EMPLOYER.

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