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  • #16
    Originally posted by JoeMama View Post
    I've been a amateur radio operator for 15 years and there have been many times I've had a radio on me while out and about. Does that mean I can tackle people in your hotel and everyone will just watch?
    Everyone didn't watch. The male staff helped the guy & phoned the police. If he did not have the radio the staff probably would have thought it was just 2 friends fighting.

    As for what you could get away with in the lobby of the hotel. I no longer know since we are not there 24 hors a day anymore.

    73s!
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
      I watched the videos - both very unprofessional. I could go on and on about what's wrong in both of these videos; I could write a small book on them. Instead I refer to the retail security industry standards that have been testified to in deposition and civil jury trial and accepted by the courts all across the nation - Best Practices - Detaining Shoplifting Suspects. You read the Best Practices and tell me what's whe rong with these videos.
      I know what is wrong with them. I also know why people always fight him. Did you watch all ten of his cases? I wonder how many bad stops he has...

      Also at Walmart, since they display merchandise outside of the store, he should wait until they hit the parking lot no matter how dangerous that is...

      What percentage of apprehensions do you think follow the bp to a t.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Curtis Baillie View Post
        It's because of all the bad things that happened to shoplifters, customers and LP that we wrote those rules. And, you can be glad we did.
        I am glad. Do you think much has changed in regards to apprehensions? Was it less publicized then?

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        • #19
          Policies have changed LP departments as they no longer subscribe to the "bring them back at all costs" mentality. There are some holdouts out there. Back in the old days (you know, before the Caveman found fire) the internet was just a thought and YouTube didn't exist. What's now industry Best Practices developed because there were some very heavy duty lawsuits that made retailers take notice and juries were awarding hefty punitive damage awards. Punitive awards are not covered by insurance and retailers took some heavy profit hits. That woke up the industry and retailers took more control over their LP departments and stressed professionalism. I've seen LP practices/policies develop over the years (32 years now) and would like to think I had some influence in that development. OK, I'm off my soapbox now....

          As far as those videos go - I hope Walmart has seen these and will be taking action against the thug who posted them. The store where this happened is easily identifiable as are the employees involved.
          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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          • #20
            Originally posted by capurato View Post
            I know what is wrong with them. I also know why people always fight him. Did you watch all ten of his cases? No, I had a hard time watching the two you linked to. I wonder how many bad stops he has...

            Also at Walmart, since they display merchandise outside of the store, he should wait until they hit the parking lot no matter how dangerous that is...

            What percentage of apprehensions do you think follow the bp to a t.
            The key to the Best Practice is to let them past the last point of sale. At certain times of the year Walmart will have some outdoor sales and may (or not) place register(s) outside stores to capture sales - think Garden Center.
            Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
            Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

            Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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            • #21
              The way that I have always taught, led, and conducted loss prevention was the concept that one should go as far as the recovery of the merchandise, or the point in which the LP feels unsafe.

              Obviously our LPs safety is paramount, but if the recovery of assets is possible, it should be followed through. If they feel safe to physically participate in a recovery on the subject, I give the staff the opportunity to do so.

              Now, whether I agree with them going it in your hotel lobby, I am not as optimistic.

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              • #22
                I find it interesting as I read this posts. Some of you supervisors stress recovery of the stolen item. but my experience in the LP field was very different. It was more about the apprehension than all else and of course policy was interfering half the time. whether it be because the perp didn't steal enough, or a manager declined the apprehension. I have been canned twice because I did not meet the quotas of two different companies. now i am working in security, until I can find a way back in.

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                • #23
                  Looks like those two companies you worked for had their priorities confused.
                  Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                  Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                  Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                  • #24
                    oh they certainly did. I am still driven to do loss prevention though. been wanting to do is since I took a private security class back in college. I really liked the idea of doing retail theft investigations.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ironh19 View Post
                      I find it interesting as I read this posts. Some of you supervisors stress recovery of the stolen item. but my experience in the LP field was very different. It was more about the apprehension than all else and of course policy was interfering half the time. whether it be because the perp didn't steal enough, or a manager declined the apprehension. I have been canned twice because I did not meet the quotas of two different companies. now i am working in security, until I can find a way back in.
                      The bottom line (ie. shrink) should be the absolute most important figure to a loss prevention professional. In my experience, apprehensions are never as important as recoveries, but with that being said, if your job is to decrease external theft and you don't make any apprehensions, I can see where the concern is coming from.

                      Loss prevention is really my specialty, and I definitely do agree that it isn't always properly interpreted or properly run. Many corporations have huge expectation on apprehensions, and I am aware that many of these companies actually account their floorwalkers/LP staff to external theft - meaning, the floor LP staff are primarily responsible for reducing external loss. The issue, though, comes from two places.

                      One, a huge amount of loss comes from internal theft. Many companies do not have the resources in place to counter abundant internal theft or vendor theft, so you could theoretically stop every shoplifter and still experience massive loss.

                      Second, I would argue that the majority of external theft is actually deterred by internal controls within a corporation. So, effective and enforced internal controls may actually do a better job reducing external theft than having an actual LP.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nauticus View Post
                        The bottom line (ie. shrink) should be the absolute most important figure to a loss prevention professional. In my experience, apprehensions are never as important as recoveries, but with that being said, if your job is to decrease external theft and you don't make any apprehensions, I can see where the concern is coming from.

                        Loss prevention is really my specialty, and I definitely do agree that it isn't always properly interpreted or properly run. Many corporations have huge expectation on apprehensions, and I am aware that many of these companies actually account their floorwalkers/LP staff to external theft - meaning, the floor LP staff are primarily responsible for reducing external loss. The issue, though, comes from two places.

                        One, a huge amount of loss comes from internal theft. Many companies do not have the resources in place to counter abundant internal theft or vendor theft, so you could theoretically stop every shoplifter and still experience massive loss.

                        Second, I would argue that the majority of external theft is actually deterred by internal controls within a corporation. So, effective and enforced internal controls may actually do a better job reducing external theft than having an actual LP.
                        You are absolutely correct. I know of many retail companies who have no LP staff, but have extremely low shrink figures. Shrink reduction is part of their company's culture and is stressed throughout their organizations.
                        Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                        Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                        Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I completely agree that the bottom line is the most important. I remember I would walk around the stores and see things and I would be like "if they would just do this, it would solve that" guess i was better at seeing flaws then picking out shoplifters, I made detainments, just not enough in their eyes, i remember one supervisor telling me, that "women were more suited to be LP" not really sure why because she stopped herself in mid sentence.

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                          • #28
                            Outside of the boundaries

                            My concern, outside of my boundaries is two fold:

                            1) Injury to my LPA's. Pursuing a suspect that is fleeing increases the probability that the suspect is not an amateur and is armed. Armed suspects have a tendency to cause a substantial injury when they feel they are cornered, and there is nothing (not even a fist full of diamonds) that is worth the risk of one of my "guys" being shot or stabbed, or even tazed.

                            2) The risk to the company increases dramatically outside the borders. Loss Prevention is really Risk Management. There will be losses, but doing the things, like working with the cashiers to spot tag swapping, or the floor associates to report potential shoplifters to us, help keep our risks low(er), but don't cost us a lot in sales. Running after a subject into the mall next door, opens up a can of risks that, although the probability is low, it is still higher than it is in the environment that I have control over, or someone falling and injuring themselves. A $5000 slip / trip and fall claim is a lot more expensive than the average shoplifter has on them.

                            There are times that I wish my boundaries were bigger, but never beyond what is under my authority to control, thus not off my property. We have followed at a distance a subject to record the vehicle they are getting into, for the PD report, but anything else is over the top. As was said earlier, I hope his employer gave him the authority to pursue like he did, but I doubt it. The reasons are clear. Who would have been paying the bill if one of the tourists were hurt during the scuffle, or one of your bell hops? Not the hotel, but the retailer. By taking a pursuit to that extent, the LP detective actually increased the risks to the retailer well above the cost of the suits, which even if they were recovered, what kind of condition were they in?

                            Ken in Anaconda, MT

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ironh19 View Post
                              I completely agree that the bottom line is the most important. I remember I would walk around the stores and see things and I would be like "if they would just do this, it would solve that" guess i was better at seeing flaws then picking out shoplifters, I made detainments, just not enough in their eyes, i remember one supervisor telling me, that "women were more suited to be LP" not really sure why because she stopped herself in mid sentence.
                              I do think a woman makes an excellent floorwalker, if only because a female with a purse and a buggy might appear less noticeable than a male pretending to care about shopping

                              Seriously though, I think women and men are generally equal at LP because the job duties can be taught effectively to either.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by natsuto
                                I worked for a well-known food chain, this is my job to prevent some of the corporate assets. We never see any problems, until one day, a strange guy to Kodak 10 enter the complex.
                                Stop spamming. Reported

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