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  • New From Indiana

    My name is Lisa. I just joined, and wanted to say hello to everyone. I live in Indiana and work contract Security for DOL at a Job Corp Facility. I have worked in Security for most of my life. I have worked undercover, loss prevention, private gated community security and numerous other Security positions. Job Corp is one of the most interesting postions I have held in Security. I enjoy working for Job Corp and look forward to meeting new people on this site.
    "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
    Ronald Reagan

    “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

    Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

  • #2
    Great first post, welcome aboard. I have only been here a short while, but enjoy the varied input.
    Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
    Groucho Marx

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome Lise, you'll find people from all walks of security life in here. Join in on some of the conversations and feel free to put your opinion in.


      Side note: At job corps is that an armed position? I only ask because when I was in MI it was commonly though that a majority of your Job Corps people were a bit on the shadier side (profiling I know lol) I worked armed security at a theater there, and once a week Job Corps brought a group to the theater as a reward or something. We had more fights and incidents occur during those times, that on those nights the theater added another armed officer

      Comment


      • #4
        No. it isn't an armed position. I have worked armed before, and I believe it would be more of a hazrd to be armed at JC. We are outnumbered 650 students to 4-6 officers per shift. Yes, I can bleieve the increased fights etc... We have the same issues, but there are some good students in the mix, and they do make the job worthwhile. Of course...the others 95% are what make it interesting.
        "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
        Ronald Reagan

        “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

        Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

        Comment


        • #5
          Welcome from Montreal. As an "outsider" what is Job Corp?
          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

          Comment


          • #6
            Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

            I like Colonel Sanders and his "finger-licking good" chicken.

            Welcome to the forum.

            PS- Chickens don't have a problem with guns. It's the axe that gets to 'em.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HotelSecurity
              Welcome from Montreal. As an "outsider" what is Job Corp?
              Job Corp is a place for young people ages 16-24 to go and live in a residential setting while they earn their GED or high school diploma, and learn a trade. A lot of them are from somewhat larger cities where gangs are prevalent, like Chicago or Detroit. It is a good program for those who actually go there to work it. It is under the umbrella of DOL.
              "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
              Ronald Reagan

              “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

              Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE=Mr. Security]Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                I like Colonel Sanders and his "finger-licking good" chicken.

                Welcome to the forum.

                Thanks for the welcome. I can see you have a great sense of humor.....
                "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
                Ronald Reagan

                “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

                Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LisaT
                  Job Corp is a place for young people ages 16-24 to go and live in a residential setting while they earn their GED or high school diploma, and learn a trade. A lot of them are from somewhat larger cities where gangs are prevalent, like Chicago or Detroit. It is a good program for those who actually go there to work it. It is under the umbrella of DOL.
                  I still not getting it. (I'm Canadian ). Is it voluntary or are the kids forced there? Does DOL = Department of Labour? (or LABOR in the US ).
                  I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                  Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is operated by Dept. of Labor. Most of the students are there voluntarily. Some do have a choice given to them by a judge...I believe it used to be mostly a choice between jail and JC, but not so much anymore.
                    "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
                    Ronald Reagan

                    “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

                    Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If its a correctional housing, then I can see a reason for it not to be armed. However, if its just a bunch of people there, then there's no reason for it not to be armed (other than the list below, which is usually monetary) any more than having 1 police officer or 2 police officers arrive.

                      I take it that it is not an Act 330 Arrest Powers Security Guard position, though.

                      Reasons why sites are not armed:
                      - It increases the insurance rate for the client.
                      - The client has a political or personal aversion to guns.
                      - The client does not want to pay for an armed guard.
                      - The client does not want the guard to actually do anything. (O&R Only)
                      - The client has seen armed guards from the service provider and fears them.

                      Keep in mind, when people think of armed guard, they think of full gun belt and duty gear. WHen they think of unarmed guard, they think of nothing but a pants belt and restricted in carrying a flashlight.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mr. Corbier, I can respect your opinions about armed officers. It is great that you brought this up. It gives me reason to contemplate the positives or negatives of being unarmed on our center. Perhaps I sohuld have thought it through more thoroughly before responding. I guess this probably is not the correct forum to post this in...but since the question was asked here, I'll answer it here.
                        I always carry when I am not on duty, so perhaps it is strange that I feel that we don't need to be armed on this particular job. I have never felt unsafe there even though we have some gang members, drug dealers, etc... I hope you will comment further on your opinions about armed and unarmed officers. It is always good to think about both sides of the issues...
                        I have worked as an armed officer In a previous postion, and I did feel the need to be armed there. It is my own opinion that although armed officers are needed in some environments, there is always the possibility that the presence of a weapon could casuse an escalation in the use of force and/or violence that otherwise might not occur.
                        I do think that in any environment that is primarily made up of young people, one has to be particularly concerned about the message an armed security officer conveys to students, parents and staff. In our case the actual client is the DOL. I don't believe the DOL has an aversion to armed security, although I suppose liability could be of concern to them. I know they do not want us to O&R only...this is one of the most active/interactive security positions I have ever held, making it one of the most interesting and rewarding as well.
                        Mr. Corbier, you are correct in assuming that we do not have arrest powers. We are not law enforcement and our job descriptions go far beyond the safety & security enforcement of the center. We are directly across the road from the National Guard, and they have been called to our center on rare occasions to stop riots. If a situation were to arise where we could not effectively control the environment using our intellectual and reasoning skills, we also have the option of contacting local and state police for assistance. We do not want to appear to our students as the iron fist of justice, but more as reasonable authority figures who are approachable. At this time, none of the officers I work with feel any need to be particularly authoritative in order to do our job. Verbal persuasion and unarmed defense techiniques can be very effective. Physical force is rarely necessary.
                        Our students are treated as clients even though some of them do pose a safety/security risk. Getting rid of the law & order stigma is very important to these young people. Their interactions with law enforcement have often been negative, and it is up to our security force to teach them that they can contribute to a productive safe environment. It is the job of every staff member to interact with these students, and in some cases be the friend that they have never had. Many of our students have always had problems with authority figures because they have been let down in the past by parents, teachers, and others who were supposed to protect them. They appear to have significant problems dealing with authority, but once you get to know them, many of them crave a safe and structured environment in which to live. The bottom line is that in this job one can not be consumed with a need to control or show excessive authority, because that doesn't earn the respect of these young people at all.
                        Anyone else have comments on this issue? I would really like to hear other opinions, I know this has been discussed at work a time or tow, other than that I hadn't really thought a lot about it until Mr. Corbier gave me reasons to contemplate it further.
                        "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
                        Ronald Reagan

                        “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

                        Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The reason that most accounts are armed is because of one of the following things: 1) There is a quantifable risk of death to the employee, 2) There is a quantifiable risk of death to those the employee is there to protect, 3) The client believes the firearm will be a deterrant, but does not actually want it used in a lethal force situation (see unloaded guns and fake guns), 4) The company only offers armed positions as a matter of course or duties (see 1 and 2, for every site they're on.)

                          The first is obvious, such as when you are in the ghetto and they will probably kill you if they think they can. The gun gives some working room, as those who contemplate it and are not sure may go, "He has a gun, and will probably kill me. I won't mess with this person." Of course, if the person wearing the gun does not project the image of a professional who will kill, then the gun is free for the taking by the bold or stupid brave. Alternately, a professional bad guy will realize that maybe some of his people will be injured or die, but he will take the employee out. There's no real way of stopping the professional other than capitulation to him or neutralizing his ability to fight. (I don't recommend capitulation, you lose the ability to defend yourself.)

                          The second is something that many in the security industry will never have to worry about, I'm afraid. That is carrying a gun for the express purpose of injuring or killing another human being to stop their attempts at killing the people the employee is guarding. This is a huge responsibility, and I have heard countless times people go, "I only carry this gun cause it means more money, I'd just call 911 and run away if it came down to it." This is the sad part: People hired you to protect them when their life is in danger. Not to call 911 and run away. They hired you because they wanted someone who would protect them from a lethal threat. Most states that require firearms licenses mandate that the client ask for guns specifically, and the company have in the contract why it must be armed. And that is the #1 reason, "to protect the client from lethal threats."

                          The third reason is reality, and a sad one at that. Many states prohibit fake guns and unloaded guns because its happened too much. A lot of security companies will provide an armed employee for "visual deterrance," but the employee is not to intervene at all. This is the flip side to #2, where the client does not expect protection, but only the apperance of it. You usually see this in "robbery prevention" operations, the lone guard with a gun and a pair of handcuffs at a convience store.

                          Number four usually means that the company does nothing but protection accounts (where the employee must protect people from deadly threats or themselves from deadly force threats), or in private law enforcement operations where the employee is to protect the client while enforcing criminal statutes through arrest for prosecution.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                          • #14
                            Hello and welcome.

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                            • #15
                              Mr. Corbier;
                              Thanks for all the insights on armed security. that's probably more detail than I have ever seen in one place. You must have a lot of experience with the book knowledge end of security.
                              Thanks to everyone else for the welcomes. I look forward to "talking" with you.
                              Lisa
                              "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
                              Ronald Reagan

                              “Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind.” – Rudyard Kipling

                              Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

                              Comment

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