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  • john_harrington
    replied
    Amendment

    I need to amend my previous post- The Dept of State has changed their requirements so that the "L" is a maximum of 1 meter so the vehicle must be stopped completely at that point. The DoD have not changed their requirements as of this time but it seems that they are generally in line with DoS so they will probably change as well.

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  • Sierra 1
    replied
    Mr. Chaple,

    Again, 3 issues/concerns that must be addressed first:

    1. Asset Identification (are you protecting special nuclear material, widgets, or personnel?)
    2. Threat Identification (insider/outsider threat, vehicle, troops on ground?)
    3. Funding (self explanatory)


    You mentioned gates, but I believe you are looking for specific ideas/suggestions on barriers. Gates are used more for entry control points, defining specific security (restricted) areas, and DELAYING forced entry. A gate alone provides a deterrent, not a barrier designed to slow down an adversary’s progress.

    You may want to consider the use of temporary barriers, including:

    1. Additional security posts
    2. Vehicles
    3. Bollards and Jersey Bouncers

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by john_harrington View Post
    There are in established standards for protective barriers. They are rated by the U.S. Department of State using test procedures in accordance with standard SD-STD-02.01.

    This standard specifies a vehicular impact (perpendicular to the barrier) of a 15,000-pound vehicle at a speed of 30, 40, or 50 mph. The typical ratings are K-4, K-8, and K-12.

    K12 indicates that the barrier will withstand a 15,000 lb (6810 kg) vehicle traveling 50 mph (80 kph).
    K8 = 15,000 lb (6810 kg) vehicle traveling 40 mph (65 kph)
    K4 = 15,000 lb (6810 kg) vehicle traveling 30 mph (48 kph)

    The the K rating has to be combined with an L rating- L ratings let the Owner know how far the vehicle will penetrate the perimeter or protected area. There are 2 L ratings
    L1 = the same attack vehicle can penetrate 20-50 feet maximum
    L2 = the attack vehicle can penetrates 3-20 feet maximum.

    The L is critical because it effects the buildings standoff distance. If you have a large amount of standoff, you can use a less costly L1 rated gate.

    Aesthetically, I prefer retractable bollards in almost all cases over a rated gate. One important consideration for the bollard is its mechanism- electric over hydraulic or straight electric. From a LEED perspective, electric is preferred because the hydraulic device has a potential to leak its fluid into the ground.
    Thanks for the reminder, John. In addition to military standards that I referenced, there are other government agencies - like the State Department and, if I remember correctly, DOE - that have published a variety of physical security standards for their facilities.

    It should be noted that many of the governmental standards for various elements of physical security are designed to defeat or resist various forms of extraordinary deliberate attacks. As such, they might be considered excessive for normal commercial venues where those particular threats are not reasonably foreseeable.

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  • mike booth
    replied
    Sounds like Mr. Chaple needs to secure up some low use or abandoned gates, not harden high traffic access. Maybe someone is cutting chains or padlocks and sneaking off with stuff. It is easier to cut through a gate than a fence so they are targeting gates. Probably the client doesn't want to add staff or ESS. Chances are the client doesn't want to invest any time or money in the gates either, but if they could see some documented standards, maybe they could be persuaded they are under secured.

    We use standards of sorts at work. They are a little different. Some are NRC, some are self imposed. It isn't classified or anything but I won't go into detail for security reasons.

    We measure barriers against delay time. That's all a barrier provides, delay time. You either increase the delay time or reduce the response time. You can get through unattended gates in seconds. Fences don't take much longer. Bollards, crash beams, delta gates are all well and good, but they create a false sense of security and they have to be manned. A determined attacker will just go around them and cut the fence, or abandoned gates.

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  • john_harrington
    replied
    Rated Gates and bollards

    There are established standards for protective barriers. They are rated by the U.S. Department of State using test procedures in accordance with standard SD-STD-02.01.

    This standard specifies a vehicular impact (perpendicular to the barrier) of a 15,000-pound vehicle at a speed of 30, 40, or 50 mph. The typical ratings are K-4, K-8, and K-12.

    K12 indicates that the barrier will withstand a 15,000 lb (6810 kg) vehicle traveling 50 mph (80 kph).
    K8 = 15,000 lb (6810 kg) vehicle traveling 40 mph (65 kph)
    K4 = 15,000 lb (6810 kg) vehicle traveling 30 mph (48 kph)

    The the K rating has to be combined with an L rating- L ratings let the Owner know how far the vehicle will penetrate the perimeter or protected area. There are 2 L ratings
    L1 = the same attack vehicle can penetrate 20-50 feet maximum
    L2 = the attack vehicle can penetrates 3-20 feet maximum.

    The L is critical because it effects the buildings standoff distance. If you have a large amount of standoff, you can use a less costly L1 rated gate.

    Aesthetically, I prefer retractable bollards in almost all cases over a rated gate. One important consideration for the bollard is its mechanism- electric over hydraulic or straight electric. From a LEED perspective, electric is preferred because the hydraulic device has a potential to leak its fluid into the ground.
    Last edited by john_harrington; 08-23-2009, 08:55 AM.

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  • mike booth
    replied
    Quick answer though. If they are abandoned, and or low use and you can get a fork lift up to them, drop a Jersey Barrier against them to hold them closed or fill up some 55 gallon drums and do the same.

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  • mike booth
    replied
    Open attacks or sneak attacks? I think I see where you are going, but I need to ask. Got to run, time to work. Later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Chaple
    replied
    SecTrainer, that was a big step in the right direction, thanks.

    Mike, I am curious about protecting against brute force (ramming/pulling) attacks and cutting attacks.

    wvd, I have ran more than my share of dead and burned out gates. It is a bear.

    FireRanger, you were right, I should have started smaller.

    Leave a comment:


  • mike booth
    replied
    Interesting question, what kind of gate, vehicle or pedestrian or both, might I ask and what kind of attack? Ramming? VBIED? Personnel? We secure against all those threats at work. I might have a few suggestions.

    Leave a comment:


  • wvd1979
    replied
    I would like to offer advice based on firsthand experience with gates over the years. If the gate is motorized, be sure the motor has the appropriate torque and power for the type of gate used.

    We had a large gate that went through 200 open/close cycles per day. It was installed by in-house maintenance personnel and the motor selected was not powerful enough. Eventually, the constant strain of the gate burned the motor out.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Chaple View Post
    Tell me about gates. Who establishes standards of construction for security gates? What features are nice to have on a gate? Which are important? Which are necessary? What type of gate designs are the most effective against which types of attacks?
    Who builds the best gates? What can one do to strenghten and existing, medium security gate against various attacks?
    Thanks,
    John.
    There's no general industry standard that I know of. However, in such cases we can often refer to military specifications - and the military has to have a "spec" for everything due to purchasing and contracting requirements. Doesn't necessarily mean you would impose the same standards, but it gives you something to work from - for instance, what are the pertinent parameters (e.g. cycle time, clearance, etc.) that should be considered with regard to gates, and what units of measurement are used for those parameters? Also, it serves as a reference point for comparing gates that you might be considering (i.e., how close do they come to meeting this standard?)...

    Here's a milspec publication (MIL-HDBK-1013/10) regarding fence and gate standards - perhaps it will provide what you need. Notice that the second or third page also includes references to other standards publications, most or all of which you can probably find by Googling the specific number of the standard (as shown above), using quotes around it.

    http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/NAVFAC/DMMHNAV/1013_10.pdf
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 08-19-2009, 11:09 AM.

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  • Mr. Chaple
    replied
    I've started out too broadly. Is there a body which sets standards for vehicle gate security? ANSI has standards for safe operation, but I could not find any information about resistance to brute force attacks.

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  • FireRanger
    replied
    Well first you need to figure out what exactly is the gate to be used for. Are you looking to just simply control traffic flow in/out of a parking area, are you looking to secure a retirement community or Area 51? Is the gate going to be a vehicle gate or man gate? What is the threat against the facility? Is it a facility or home? Do looks matter? What is the security around the gate? Vehicle barriers should the gate be ran, guards working right there, guards operating remotely via CCTV and intercom, etc. Does the gate need to be wired into a alarm system or access control system like continuum, Diamond 2 or CCure? Will the gate be automated, or is it going to be manually operated? Locked? In short what exactly do you want to know about gates as there are a million different gates out on the market and they all have their uses.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Chaple
    started a topic Vehicle Gates

    Vehicle Gates

    Tell me about gates. Who establishes standards of construction for security gates? What features are nice to have on a gate? Which are important? Which are necessary? What type of gate designs are the most effective against which types of attacks?
    Who builds the best gates? What can one do to strenghten and existing, medium security gate against various attacks?
    Thanks,
    John.
    Last edited by Mr. Chaple; 08-19-2009, 07:26 AM. Reason: spelling

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