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  • #16

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    • #17
      No. They aren't listening. Most take the ostrich approach towards security and stick their heads in the sand and hope for the best. Many hospitals are barely solvent and do not have the funds for additional security. Others just don't see it coming or think we are acting like "chicken little."

      Like so many other tragedies, changes will be made AFTER innocent people are injured and killed. Then the finger pointing starts. Next come the denials that they could have done something to stop it. After that, a report costing considerable taxpayer funds to tell us what went wrong. Finally, time passes, people forget, and the next incident happens. Then the whole process starts again. Duh!
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #18
        In cases of mental patients and prisoners, that hasn't been much of an issue for us at St. Mary's (Troy, NY). Usually when a prisoner comes into the ER or maturnity section corrections officers are with the patient at all times, usually with knight sticks waiting.

        There isn't a psych-ward in our hospital so when the crazys show up we have the police remove them from the property and to the nearest well equipted hospital.

        At St. Mary's there is only one guard on duty between 12am-4pm, at 4pm two guards are on until 12am. There really should be two on at all times, but St. Mary's is non-profit. The biggest part of our job is access control and enforcing the smoking policy. Occasionally we're called to Detox or the ER for a person who's being unreasonable. We're required to do at least 6 patrols (3 per officer) and 4 (for when only on guard is on duty)

        The parking garage is free, thus we arn't always in the security booth meaning more then once we've had cars broken into and stolen. The switchboard operators have the view to the security cameras not us, which is bad because most of the time none of them look at them, save for the one thats over the door to their own room.

        The worst part about it is the drunks, the ER staff simply tells us to "keep an eye on them" and seldom very much more that that; hopefully this will change in coming talks.
        Last edited by LavianoTS386; 04-03-2006, 01:49 PM.

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        • #19
          I worked at a hospital in the province of Alberta for just over a year in the capacity of Special Constable. This hospital was several million square feet in size and constantly under construction. As Special Constables, we had more authority than security officers, as we were licensed 'Peace Officers' which enables us to enforce provincial and federal statues. There were 6 Special Constables, usually two on at a time. In addition to that, we had a full compliment of contracted security officers. On any given shift, there would be 2 Special Constables, and up to 7 guards. The Constables were outfitted with Asp batons, cuffs, lights etc. The guards had all the same equip, except for baton, as legislation does not permit it.

          As far as the facility goes, pretty damn secure. On any given day, there are between 15-20,000 visitors, patients, employees and public who used this facility. During regular hours, the hospital was very open, as technically, it is a 'public place'. At night, locked down tight! Very secure, but could have used more CCTV. Hospital was very prepared for child abductions, suicides, thefts, robberies and any disaster.

          Looking back on it, it was a well run facility. I must agree with the complimentary services. As most hospitals are unionized (except security) we got left with many things if the person whose job it was didn't want to do it. So many things could fall under 'safety and security'. So, we always looked at the big picture, wanting our hospital to be the safest and most secure. I personally had to shovel off the helicopter landing pad during a snow storm, as the glycol system had failed. Had a helicpter had to land, they wouldn't have been able to. But, it comes with the job i guess.

          Hospitals are complex facilities. I don;t know how things work down there, but more often than not, each hospital here has an in-house security dept that runs the show, and the contract guards do the work. Seems to work well. Hospital security can be very boring, and on the flip side, totally crazy!

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          • #20
            Maybe in oil rich Alberta, but not in poor Quebec . In Montreal I believe ALL of the hospitals use rent-a-cops (sorry I mean Contract Security Officers). I don't think there are any in-house left. There are very very few Special Constables either. The only ones I can think of are the Universite de Montreal.
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tennsix
              It has been my experience that a lot of hospital officers are EMT or EMT-P certified. I know a few that transferred from security to EMS or ED.
              Many Hospital Security Officers, like myself, have also and/or currently Police Officers and/or Sheriff's Deputies as well as EMT's

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              • #22
                I am sitting in a psych ward as i write this,(not as a patient). Hospital security has it's moments especially psych. We are trained in aggression minimisation and takedown techniques and try to practice these moves whenever possible. I never work alone, i basically stand in between the nurse or magistrate and patient as a human shield and hope for the best. I always remember my stance and to watch for any movement from the patient. I look really paranoid some days, better paranoid than dead.
                We haven't had trouble for a while, Let's cancel security!

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                • #23
                  ER's, drunks and drug users?

                  In my city a large majority of people found under the influence of narcotics or alcohol are brought to our hospital emergency department for "treatment". This means (90% of the time) in them being held in the ER until they are "fit" to be sent to the local detox facility (one does not go to the county jail "tank") or released back out on the streets. These people are a large portion of the disrutpive/assaultive behaviorial cases we have to deal with in the ER.

                  I was wondering if this is something that happens elsewhere as a general rule or if our city is outside the norm.

                  It seems a large waste of effective use of emergency room beds, that's what the detox facility should be doing.
                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by aka Bull
                    In my city a large majority of people found under the influence of narcotics or alcohol are brought to our hospital emergency department for "treatment". This means (90% of the time) in them being held in the ER until they are "fit" to be sent to the local detox facility (one does not go to the county jail "tank") or released back out on the streets. These people are a large portion of the disrutpive/assaultive behaviorial cases we have to deal with in the ER.

                    I was wondering if this is something that happens elsewhere as a general rule or if our city is outside the norm.

                    It seems a large waste of effective use of emergency room beds, that's what the detox facility should be doing.
                    Here they have to be cleared medically to go to the detox facility. Once they clear medically we call PD to transport them outta here (unless the get Baker Acted which has happened)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GCMC Security
                      Here they have to be cleared medically to go to the detox facility. Once they clear medically we call PD to transport them outta here (unless the get Baker Acted which has happened)
                      Same here. We have to take the prisoner to the hospital if they test .24% BrAC (or above) and/or appear to be intoxicated on drugs.
                      I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                      -Lieutenant Commander Data
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by aka Bull
                        In my city a large majority of people found under the influence of narcotics or alcohol are brought to our hospital emergency department for "treatment". This means (90% of the time) in them being held in the ER until they are "fit" to be sent to the local detox facility (one does not go to the county jail "tank") or released back out on the streets. These people are a large portion of the disrutpive/assaultive behaviorial cases we have to deal with in the ER.

                        I was wondering if this is something that happens elsewhere as a general rule or if our city is outside the norm.

                        It seems a large waste of effective use of emergency room beds, that's what the detox facility should be doing.
                        I worked in-house hospital security for about a year. We did the same thing, drunks and overdoses were treated in the ER until they were well enough to be discharged. We would have to do what they called a "One to One" with the "patient". This meant that we would have to sit in the ER room with them until they sobered up. If they became combative, they were put in restraints and given a "happy shot". It was a big pain in the neck.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by T202
                          I worked in-house hospital security for about a year. We did the same thing, drunks and overdoses were treated in the ER until they were well enough to be discharged. We would have to do what they called a "One to One" with the "patient". This meant that we would have to sit in the ER room with them until they sobered up. If they became combative, they were put in restraints and given a "happy shot". It was a big pain in the neck.
                          We do the same at our hospital. The "patient" ends up on security watch (we have 2 in-house officers assigned in the ER all the time - and can bring in more if we need to). There are a fair number of fights with them, usually ending in them getting restrained to the bed and occassionally (when they push it far enough) with some of them getting hit with a Taser shot to get control of them. It is a lot of intensive one-on-one time that could best be spent in other work. Oh, and the local detox facility - if the "patient" get there and exhibits so much as a "disagreeable attitude" they send them right back to us to handle as "too hostile for detox".
                          "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                          • #28
                            Hey, folks, I need something for a friend. Can someone appropriate/acquire/beg/borrow/steal enough information to give a clueless hospital director of security (Not the friend) who has no previous experience in security information?

                            Here's the story.

                            I have a friend who is a LEO, and also works for a hospital as a teacher. Since he's a LEO, they're asking him for advice on how to do the Hospital Security thing. It is in the State of Missouri. There are no written policies to be found, and the guards (They're called Guards, not Officers) are there for visual deterrance as much as anyone can figure out.

                            They are not authorized to use force, I was told their force options are "very limited." They are going to recieve training in self-protection, but that's it. They carry handcuffs, but may not carry other weapons.

                            They are responsible for executing a physician's hold order, but not for criminal intervention. So, they are required to take patients who have been proscribed restraint down, and they are required to take patients who attempt to "walk-away" down. They do not intervene in criminal issues, however.

                            Its a blank slate. This isn't my type of operation. You hospital guys know what I'd be putting on them: Tasers, Batons, Flashlights, Gloves, and Cuffs. They'd also be responsible for protecting the ER staff from both patients acting out and violent offenders. Unfortunately, they're not, they're there for visual intimidation only.

                            I've been asked for a policy. Does anyone have any ideas, help, guidelines, etc for me to draft one? Keeping in mind that the guy giving it to the new director is a LEO, and that the director is clueless.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              Hey, folks, I need something for a friend. Can someone appropriate/acquire/beg/borrow/steal enough information to give a clueless hospital director of security (Not the friend) who has no previous experience in security information?.....

                              They are not authorized to use force, I was told their force options are "very limited." They are going to recieve training in self-protection, but that's it. They carry handcuffs, but may not carry other weapons.

                              They are responsible for executing a physician's hold order, but not for criminal intervention. So, they are required to take patients who have been proscribed restraint down, and they are required to take patients who attempt to "walk-away" down. They do not intervene in criminal issues, however.

                              Its a blank slate. This isn't my type of operation........

                              I've been asked for a policy. Does anyone have any ideas, help, guidelines, etc for me to draft one? Keeping in mind that the guy giving it to the new director is a LEO, and that the director is clueless.
                              What policy or policies are you looking for? Restraining patients (we use RIPP Brand restraints and you have to be qualified to use them), Use of Force (even in self -defense - our officers are trained in the PPCT Defensive Tactics - which I instruct), knife self-defense (PPCT SKD), post orders, etc...

                              You might also direct your friend to search around on the International Association of Hospital Safety & Security (IAHSS) website www.iahss.org (don't know how much he could find there but it may be worth a look).

                              Give me an idea and I could probably send some of our policies to you for "examples" for your friend. I know from just what you say it's not a hospital I'd work at.

                              We (in-house officers) are fully equipped and trained, with annual and bi-annual re-certifications (depending on the skill) required to maintain your qualifications/skills.

                              Oh, you forgot the OC - we carry the foam type.
                              "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                              • #30
                                I like OC, but I'd rather deploy a taser than OC, less contamination.

                                I'm not even sure what kind of policy they need. They have nothing. They're operating on cluelessness, as many contract accounts are (They're in-house).
                                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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