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  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
    Thanks for the help..

    The reason i wont use the reg. little 50$ 2 way radios is because everyone within 10 or how ever many miles can listen or even talk.. i want something a little more private i guess. I dont mind them listening but i cant have them talking on the radios where my security / staff is trying to communicate on.

    I would need approx 2-3 maked units for traffic & patrol & i can get a few golf carts for others to use inside the park and even outside.
    Okay - well, you do what you think best. Good luck!

    Leave a comment:


  • Oxfordfair
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
    If you're in Oxford, here's a link to a listing of security services serving the Anniston-Oxford area. Being on the west coast, I can't comment about any of them and you'd need to simply contact them.

    It also sounds to me like one of the hangups in selecting a security service is whether they can provide a vehicle and radios.

    For this sort of temporary, localized venue, I don't know why you/they wouldn't just use GPRS 2-way radios you can buy in pairs for $50 or so from Radio Shack, Walmart, etc. These have a rudimentary form of "security code" you can utilize as well by setting the same code into each radio. These are not highly secure by any means, but I think they could be used.

    Here's a link to a page showing availability and pricing for the Motorola Talkabout (T8500R) radio, which boasts an 18-mile range (under ideal conditions - but you should expect at least 5 or 6 miles) and can be purchased at a lot of retail elecronic outlets. These radios can operate on both the Family Radio Service (FRS) and General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) frequencies, with 22 channels and 121 privacy codes. You would want to use GPRS, not FRS. Note also that the prices you see on this page are for a PAIR of radios, not just one.

    If you don't want to buy radios, most parts of the country have companies that will rent radios, including Nextel "walkie-talkie" phones, GPRS and business-band radios. Here's a yellow page listing for a radio rental company that says they serve the Anniston area. Give them a toot and see what they have to offer.

    I'd check equipment rental companies and even perhaps golf courses (!!) to see if a couple of golf carts might be available for rent. It doesn't sound to me like you need anything more elaborate than that. If you provide the vehicles, electric or otherwise, and whether used by the security company's staff or not, be sure to get an add-on rider for your business liability insurance for personal injury and property damage for those vehicles. You should be able to be purchase such a rider just for the period of the event for a very reasonable premium.
    Thanks for the help..

    The reason i wont use the reg. little 50$ 2 way radios is because everyone within 10 or how ever many miles can listen or even talk.. i want something a little more private i guess. I dont mind them listening but i cant have them talking on the radios where my security / staff is trying to communicate on.

    I would need approx 2-3 maked units for traffic & patrol & i can get a few golf carts for others to use inside the park and even outside.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    If you're in Oxford, here's a link to a listing of security services serving the Anniston-Oxford area. Being on the west coast, I can't comment about any of them and you'd need to simply contact them.

    It also sounds to me like one of the hangups in selecting a security service is whether they can provide a vehicle and radios.

    For this sort of temporary, localized venue, I don't know why you/they wouldn't just use GPRS 2-way radios you can buy in pairs for $50 or so from Radio Shack, Walmart, etc. These have a rudimentary form of "security code" you can utilize as well by setting the same code into each radio. These are not highly secure by any means, but I think they could be used.

    Here's a link to a page showing availability and pricing for the Motorola Talkabout (T8500R) radio, which boasts an 18-mile range (under ideal conditions - but you should expect at least 5 or 6 miles) and can be purchased at a lot of retail elecronic outlets. These radios can operate on both the Family Radio Service (FRS) and General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) frequencies, with 22 channels and 121 privacy codes. You would want to use GPRS, not FRS. Note also that the prices you see on this page are for a PAIR of radios, not just one.

    If you don't want to buy radios, most parts of the country have companies that will rent radios, including Nextel "walkie-talkie" phones, GPRS and business-band radios. Here's a yellow page listing for a radio rental company that says they serve the Anniston area. Give them a toot and see what they have to offer.

    I'd check equipment rental companies and even perhaps golf courses (!!) to see if a couple of golf carts might be available for rent. It doesn't sound to me like you need anything more elaborate than that. If you provide the vehicles, electric or otherwise, and whether used by the security company's staff or not, be sure to get an add-on rider for your business liability insurance for personal injury and property damage for those vehicles. You should be able to be purchase such a rider just for the period of the event for a very reasonable premium.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-09-2007, 02:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oxfordfair
    replied
    update

    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
    This whole thing sounds very unbusiness-like to me, and there's a lot we don't know about this whole situation. We don't know anything about the venue except that it's a fairgrounds, we don't know how much you will rake in from renting the grounds (presumably) and/or admission tickets, concessions, etc., or what other expenses you have. We don't know what your contractual arrangements with the county or various other parties might be. We don't know, in other words, whether you really "can't afford" to do this right or you're just trying to get by on the cheap.

    We don't know anything about the security demands either - i.e., what mix of people you can expect to attend, or how many. We don't know if security will be provided for the parking area. We don't know the past history of security incidents at similar events on your premises. We also don't know what availability there is with respect to the various emergency services, including the (on-duty) police/sheriff, fire, and EMTs. Heck, we don't even know how far it is to the nearest fire hydrant, much less hospital.

    These questions must be answered before we can, first of all, tell you how skilled your security staff needs to be (for instance, CPR/First Aid), whether you require armed security, and certainly we can't tell you how many you'll need.

    The matter of insurance is a whole 'nother ballgame, as they say, and it's hard for me to see how you're going to solve that one - appropriately.

    The best advice we can give you is to do what anyone else in the same situation would do - hire a professional security company. I've got a feeling you can afford that, and it's the best way to make sure you still own the fairgrounds when the event is over. Otherwise, you're quite liable to find yourself signing it over to someone when your cheap solution lands you in the cheap seats.
    I own the fairgrounds.We get admission into the park, 25% of what ever the ride company (group that brings the rides in) makes & I also drink machines through out the park. Concession is the ride companys.

    The security staff I intended on hiring is CPR/First Aid Certified & is the security team for the Alabama State Fairgrounds.

    We havent had to many problems in the past, just a few fights, norm. like 1 car broke into the entire time we run for 9 days. We have had the problems of Underage drinking & ocasional drugs on property but that does not happen every time we have a fair. (atleast to our knowledge, im sure they bring it in though..)

    As far as crowd, we average 10-16,000 people in 9 days total. Most will be on weekends and the free ride night with paid admission day. There is prob. 60% teens, 15% children 12 & younger & 25% adults over 21 that attend it during the week.

    You asked about the hospital. Well the
    Hospital is approx 8 miles away
    Police dept is 3 miles away
    your about 4 blocks from the I-20 interstate (Surrounded by a major amount of fast food, hotels, gas station, home depot, target, best buy, walmart, lowes, petsmart & etc. all at just that exit
    its approx 2.5 miles from the schools.

    You also asked about traffic / parking lot. The parking lot is a "walmart" style parking lot with lots of light. It will be patroled by 2 security officers while the inside is patroled by 4 others & if assistance is needed by the other, then they go asst. At the very first of the fair opening & the end when the fair closes for the day, the police dept has asked that we post someone at the entrance of the park for traffic control.

    I would have no problem hiring a security company but theres not really around here that specify in what I need. I need a company that has Vehicles. So they can help do traffic control. They will need professional radios & duty gear also.

    Any companys come to mind?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hank1
    replied
    Originally posted by gcmc security part 2 View Post
    As for reporting requirements, I don't know of any BUT you safest bet is anytime your people use ANY type of force is to contact local LE to inform them and to document, document, document. And if you don't do anything else DOCUMENT!!!
    Outstanding advise. If you allow your officers to carry OC, cuffs and batons, certify your officers in them. This way if force is used, it will be used properly. Good luck.

    Be safe,

    Hank

    Leave a comment:


  • integrator97
    replied
    Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
    If the minimum wage is below the federal minimum of $5.15ph (current) or if the state doesn't have one then the federal minimum is what must be paid. My guess is that the states with lower minimums were in effect prior to the federal going to $5.15 in 1997.
    Yep, you're right. I hadn't noticed this above the map on the link.
    Where Federal and state law have different minimum wage rates, the higher standard applies.

    Leave a comment:


  • craig333
    replied
    The idea of working under the table just scares the heck out me nowadays (now that I"m older and maybe a bit wiser). If I'm injured will I be covered? If I"m sued will I be covered? Will I keep my license if someone comes around asking questions? I'd wonder about someone unwilling to get liability coverage. Probably means no workers comp coverage either.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    This whole thing sounds very unbusiness-like to me, and there's a lot we don't know about this whole situation. We don't know anything about the venue except that it's a fairgrounds, we don't know how much you will rake in from renting the grounds (presumably) and/or admission tickets, concessions, etc., or what other expenses you have. We don't know what your contractual arrangements with the county or various other parties might be. We don't know, in other words, whether you really "can't afford" to do this right or you're just trying to get by on the cheap.

    We don't know anything about the security demands either - i.e., what mix of people you can expect to attend, or how many. We don't know if security will be provided for the parking area. We don't know the past history of security incidents at similar events on your premises. We also don't know what availability there is with respect to the various emergency services, including the (on-duty) police/sheriff, fire, and EMTs. Heck, we don't even know how far it is to the nearest fire hydrant, much less hospital.

    These questions must be answered before we can, first of all, tell you how skilled your security staff needs to be (for instance, CPR/First Aid), whether you require armed security, and certainly we can't tell you how many you'll need.

    The matter of insurance is a whole 'nother ballgame, as they say, and it's hard for me to see how you're going to solve that one - appropriately.

    The best advice we can give you is to do what anyone else in the same situation would do - hire a professional security company. I've got a feeling you can afford that, and it's the best way to make sure you still own the fairgrounds when the event is over. Otherwise, you're quite liable to find yourself signing it over to someone when your cheap solution lands you in the cheap seats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andy Taylor
    replied
    Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
    I looked it up, and Alabama has no minimum wage at all. Kind of makes you wonder why we have a federal minimum wage if 5 states don't have one and 4 states are below it. http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

    If the minimum wage is below the federal minimum of $5.15ph (current) or if the state doesn't have one then the federal minimum is what must be paid. My guess is that the states with lower minimums were in effect prior to the federal going to $5.15 in 1997.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oxfordfair
    replied
    under table

    N.A., I have addressed the "under the table" pay on this forum. I had said that I understand that people is out for money in this world & the easiest way to get it is by suing someone..

    I have talked to several security agencys and they said the best best would to try to find some liablity insurance. I have yet to find any or anything, so if you know of something or someone that might help me then please tell me by all means..

    I have stated many many many times that i would rather go the Off Duty Police doing Security Detail option but that is very expensive.

    If i could find good & reasonable insurance then that would work. but like i said earlier, its the United States & its year 2007.. Nothing is cheap nor free.....

    Leave a comment:


  • crankloud
    replied
    Bit off topic.

    I know it's a far cry from the U.S.A, but here in Australia security officers cannot work without a licence and a senior first aid certificate. If your caught working unlicenced, fines up to $5000 per person or $125,000 per corporation apply. Additional licences and training are required for firearms and batons.
    We are not allowed to carry pepper spray in Aus yet.


    If i get hurt i can be fined for breaches of the occupational health and safety act and they can even refuse to pay workers compensation.

    As for wages i get paid a base wage of $19.20 per hour (minimum)
    Penalty rates apply between 18:00 and 06:00 (+ $2.50 per hour)
    Weekend rates (+ $4.00 per hour)
    Public holidays (+ $4.00 per hour)
    That's a total of $25.70 per hour for working night on a weekend ( we work an 8 hour shift)
    I am highly trained and have been working security for 20 years.
    You get what you pay for!
    Last edited by crankloud; 10-06-2007, 01:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
    as far as finding people to work for $50 a night (under the table) down here, thats not a problem.....
    Let me guess your core values: Honesty - Integrity - Trustworthy

    No insult intended, but whatever money you might save by avoiding taxes will never offset the damage done to your name and reputation as a security provider once the dishonesty has been uncovered. You work hard to get a business up and running; don't throw it away with unwise business decisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    You still haven't addressed the fact that if your under the table guards so much as touch someone who has a clue, and files a complaint or even sues (They're citizens, not the police here...) that it will all come out that you're hiring folks under the table.

    They have no worker's comp, so the government will sue.

    Your name is now on this site (through the link to your business), so a good investigator doing due diligence searching will find this thread, and show the court that this was deliberate.

    If they are injured a fight, you can be sued for failure to train.

    Basically, hiring under the table thugs and calling them "security guards" is a great way to get sued.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oxfordfair
    replied
    Min. Wage

    Yes, Alabama does have min. wage and its $5.15 a hr, Unless you work as a witress and get tips then u get aronud $3.00-$3.50 a hr and keep ur tips...

    I live here, I should know what out min. wage is. Just because it doesnt say it on a site doesnt mean we dont have it.

    Leave a comment:


  • integrator97
    replied
    Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
    as far as finding people to work for $50 a night (under the table) down here, thats not a problem. The 6 i have lined up to work security if i do this myself already has experience and already has the gear.

    $5.15 is min. wage for Alabama

    I also own a professional wrestling org., same with that.. Local indy workers work for as little as gas money, but i give them around 50$. We run 1-2 shows a month with TONS of former WCW, WWE, NWA, TNA stars. www.southernchampionshipwrestling.net
    I would definitely not do something like this under the table. At the very least, they should be independant contractors with signed waivers of workers comp, assuming you can do that in Alabama.

    Not only are you opening yourself up to larger potential lawsuits from people they handle by paying under the table, but also if you guard gets hurt, you have no comp and no contract, so they may sue you. And you insurance likely won't help in either of these situations. Best to look at contract services if you ask me.

    I looked it up, and Alabama has no minimum wage at all. Kind of makes you wonder why we have a federal minimum wage if 5 states don't have one and 4 states are below it. http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
    Last edited by integrator97; 10-06-2007, 12:16 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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