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  • #16
    Never said anything about OFF duty work, mentioned the reserves because in most cases the reserves are volunteers and would do most anything for money. Which they can parlay into more training and equipment. There are several avenues you can use in this areas...

    But this is all a moot point with you, so just pick up a phone book and good luck.
    Last edited by ValleyOne; 10-04-2007, 01:42 AM.
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    • #17
      reserves

      the local police doesnt have reserves but the sheriffs dept does. They charge for them also..

      I have came to realize though, nothing is free or cheap in this world anymore.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
        Like i said earlier, the police / sheriffs will work the event but are REALLY expensive for off duty work.

        The local police is $30 a hr & the sheriff is $35 a hr. for off duty work.. So that is expensive.. Around $12k
        $66/hour for off duty Montreal Police.
        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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        • #19
          pay

          wow! and i thought my local agencys were high!!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
            wow! and i thought my local agencys were high!!

            Remember that is Canadian $.

            Around here reserves cost the same as regulars and last time I checked they were about $35 ph and that was about 3 or 4 years ago. You actually don't get the choice. You place you order and whoever signs up first gets the job.

            Renting cars/golf cart would save you quite a bit I would imagine. Plus no maintaince on the vehicle. Rent a white Impala/CV/Charger etc. If you want marked, just get some magnetic signs for the door. Lighting can be done with dash lights that plug into the cigarette lighter.

            I find it hard to believe you could find anyone to work for those wages. Around here that is far below minimum wage, even if it is under the table.
            "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
              Remember that is Canadian $.


              The Canadian dollar is almost par with the US right now and one day last week went above. The difference may be our City Cops are in the 65 - 72,000 per year range. So 33 an hour regular pay.
              Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
              Groucho Marx

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              • #22
                pay

                Originally posted by Andy Taylor View Post
                Remember that is Canadian $.

                Around here reserves cost the same as regulars and last time I checked they were about $35 ph and that was about 3 or 4 years ago. You actually don't get the choice. You place you order and whoever signs up first gets the job.

                Renting cars/golf cart would save you quite a bit I would imagine. Plus no maintaince on the vehicle. Rent a white Impala/CV/Charger etc. If you want marked, just get some magnetic signs for the door. Lighting can be done with dash lights that plug into the cigarette lighter.

                I find it hard to believe you could find anyone to work for those wages. Around here that is far below minimum wage, even if it is under the table.
                as far as finding people to work for $50 a night (under the table) down here, thats not a problem. The 6 i have lined up to work security if i do this myself already has experience and already has the gear.

                $5.15 is min. wage for Alabama

                I also own a professional wrestling org., same with that.. Local indy workers work for as little as gas money, but i give them around 50$. We run 1-2 shows a month with TONS of former WCW, WWE, NWA, TNA stars. www.southernchampionshipwrestling.net

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
                  as far as finding people to work for $50 a night (under the table) down here, thats not a problem. The 6 i have lined up to work security if i do this myself already has experience and already has the gear.

                  $5.15 is min. wage for Alabama

                  I also own a professional wrestling org., same with that.. Local indy workers work for as little as gas money, but i give them around 50$. We run 1-2 shows a month with TONS of former WCW, WWE, NWA, TNA stars. www.southernchampionshipwrestling.net
                  I would definitely not do something like this under the table. At the very least, they should be independant contractors with signed waivers of workers comp, assuming you can do that in Alabama.

                  Not only are you opening yourself up to larger potential lawsuits from people they handle by paying under the table, but also if you guard gets hurt, you have no comp and no contract, so they may sue you. And you insurance likely won't help in either of these situations. Best to look at contract services if you ask me.

                  I looked it up, and Alabama has no minimum wage at all. Kind of makes you wonder why we have a federal minimum wage if 5 states don't have one and 4 states are below it. http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
                  Last edited by integrator97; 10-05-2007, 11:16 PM.
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                  • #24
                    Min. Wage

                    Yes, Alabama does have min. wage and its $5.15 a hr, Unless you work as a witress and get tips then u get aronud $3.00-$3.50 a hr and keep ur tips...

                    I live here, I should know what out min. wage is. Just because it doesnt say it on a site doesnt mean we dont have it.

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                    • #25
                      You still haven't addressed the fact that if your under the table guards so much as touch someone who has a clue, and files a complaint or even sues (They're citizens, not the police here...) that it will all come out that you're hiring folks under the table.

                      They have no worker's comp, so the government will sue.

                      Your name is now on this site (through the link to your business), so a good investigator doing due diligence searching will find this thread, and show the court that this was deliberate.

                      If they are injured a fight, you can be sued for failure to train.

                      Basically, hiring under the table thugs and calling them "security guards" is a great way to get sued.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Oxfordfair View Post
                        as far as finding people to work for $50 a night (under the table) down here, thats not a problem.....
                        Let me guess your core values: Honesty - Integrity - Trustworthy

                        No insult intended, but whatever money you might save by avoiding taxes will never offset the damage done to your name and reputation as a security provider once the dishonesty has been uncovered. You work hard to get a business up and running; don't throw it away with unwise business decisions.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                        • #27
                          Bit off topic.

                          I know it's a far cry from the U.S.A, but here in Australia security officers cannot work without a licence and a senior first aid certificate. If your caught working unlicenced, fines up to $5000 per person or $125,000 per corporation apply. Additional licences and training are required for firearms and batons.
                          We are not allowed to carry pepper spray in Aus yet.


                          If i get hurt i can be fined for breaches of the occupational health and safety act and they can even refuse to pay workers compensation.

                          As for wages i get paid a base wage of $19.20 per hour (minimum)
                          Penalty rates apply between 18:00 and 06:00 (+ $2.50 per hour)
                          Weekend rates (+ $4.00 per hour)
                          Public holidays (+ $4.00 per hour)
                          That's a total of $25.70 per hour for working night on a weekend ( we work an 8 hour shift)
                          I am highly trained and have been working security for 20 years.
                          You get what you pay for!
                          Last edited by crankloud; 10-06-2007, 12:59 PM.
                          We haven't had trouble for a while, Let's cancel security!

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                          • #28
                            under table

                            N.A., I have addressed the "under the table" pay on this forum. I had said that I understand that people is out for money in this world & the easiest way to get it is by suing someone..

                            I have talked to several security agencys and they said the best best would to try to find some liablity insurance. I have yet to find any or anything, so if you know of something or someone that might help me then please tell me by all means..

                            I have stated many many many times that i would rather go the Off Duty Police doing Security Detail option but that is very expensive.

                            If i could find good & reasonable insurance then that would work. but like i said earlier, its the United States & its year 2007.. Nothing is cheap nor free.....

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
                              I looked it up, and Alabama has no minimum wage at all. Kind of makes you wonder why we have a federal minimum wage if 5 states don't have one and 4 states are below it. http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

                              If the minimum wage is below the federal minimum of $5.15ph (current) or if the state doesn't have one then the federal minimum is what must be paid. My guess is that the states with lower minimums were in effect prior to the federal going to $5.15 in 1997.
                              "Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists. " Author Unknown

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                              • #30
                                This whole thing sounds very unbusiness-like to me, and there's a lot we don't know about this whole situation. We don't know anything about the venue except that it's a fairgrounds, we don't know how much you will rake in from renting the grounds (presumably) and/or admission tickets, concessions, etc., or what other expenses you have. We don't know what your contractual arrangements with the county or various other parties might be. We don't know, in other words, whether you really "can't afford" to do this right or you're just trying to get by on the cheap.

                                We don't know anything about the security demands either - i.e., what mix of people you can expect to attend, or how many. We don't know if security will be provided for the parking area. We don't know the past history of security incidents at similar events on your premises. We also don't know what availability there is with respect to the various emergency services, including the (on-duty) police/sheriff, fire, and EMTs. Heck, we don't even know how far it is to the nearest fire hydrant, much less hospital.

                                These questions must be answered before we can, first of all, tell you how skilled your security staff needs to be (for instance, CPR/First Aid), whether you require armed security, and certainly we can't tell you how many you'll need.

                                The matter of insurance is a whole 'nother ballgame, as they say, and it's hard for me to see how you're going to solve that one - appropriately.

                                The best advice we can give you is to do what anyone else in the same situation would do - hire a professional security company. I've got a feeling you can afford that, and it's the best way to make sure you still own the fairgrounds when the event is over. Otherwise, you're quite liable to find yourself signing it over to someone when your cheap solution lands you in the cheap seats.
                                "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                                "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                                "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                                "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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