Unsecured Railroads

[Bill Warnock]

Unsecured Railroads

My friends, please reread my original post, #3. Valuable items are being taken from trains on the move. Some recovered, some not.
As previously mentioned, CO + CL = Phosgene.
This is a wonderful thread.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Gumshoe]

What Railroad and what state is this all being taken place in?? I get E-mail Bulletins from various Federal Agencies and State Agencies mostly related to Homeland Security and I haven't seen anything come across the wire that states Chemicals have came up missing.

Not saying it's not true, but you would definately see some sort of indication somewhere in the network.

My rule of the thumb, don't believe everything you hear in the Media. They spread more panic and fear then Terrorism itself.

Hopefully you can shed some light on and provide some details on locations and what Railroad would be a starter.

[Mr. Security]

......
Now I can only answer for what I do, I'm very proactive, maybe it's because I'm young but I was always that way in the LP field and I did that for a long time. I look for tracks in the snow/mud. I set things up in the yard that trip off detection that someone was there. I utilize very "Old School" methods to find where my trepassers have been so I know later to start keeping in eye in that area. Plus it's not hard to determine where your points of entry are going to be when you lay out your Physical Security Plan. The rule of thumb is, if someone is in a train yard, they are up to no good......

I am impressed with the way you operate. Keep up the good work!

[ACP01]

As one post stated the number of RR PD officers is small.

Now think of the number of rail yards and there are all sizes, not to mention the sidings where HAZ-MAT tankers are often parked for at least a short time.

And as Bill mentioned a Limpit on a car could cause vast devistation in a heavily populated area.

Sometime jot down the UN numbers from tank cars that go thru your area and then look them up in the DOT Guide book. It will get scary.

[Bill Warnock]

As one post stated the number of RR PD officers is small.

Now think of the number of rail yards and there are all sizes, not to mention the sidings where HAZ-MAT tankers are often parked for at least a short time.

And as Bill mentioned a Limpit on a car could cause vast devistation in a heavily populated area.

Sometime jot down the UN numbers from tank cars that go thru your area and then look them up in the DOT Guide book. It will get scary.

ACP01, just such a scenario was exercised and the results were not only scary but mind numbing. Please remember we are dealing the folks who came up with our present day numbering system and Algebra, not ignorant by any measure.
For those with the security guide, you see I was not joking about the precautions!
We keep looking for the chemicals to be brought in; my friends they are already here.
The publication ACP01 mentioned, available online.
ACP01, keep at it, you make us all proud.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Gumshoe]

As one post stated the number of RR PD officers is small.

Now think of the number of rail yards and there are all sizes, not to mention the sidings where HAZ-MAT tankers are often parked for at least a short time.

And as Bill mentioned a Limpit on a car could cause vast devistation in a heavily populated area.

Sometime jot down the UN numbers from tank cars that go thru your area and then look them up in the DOT Guide book. It will get scary.

LOL It's funny you mention that, I'm a geek so I carry my Hazmat book in my duty bag and have already done what you suggested and YES it's very scary. I'm looking at getting Hazmat Certified soon, I think it should be a requirement for everyone in the railroad Police/Security Industry.


I'm not saying that a Terrorist attack couldn't happen on the railroad.....I just wanted to clarify that.

In fact I'm the biggest supporter in my department and constantly preach to the other officers (yes I'm the annoying loud mouth rookie) that it can and will happen somewhere. We already seen where trains were utilize for terrorist attacks outside the United States, it's only a matter of time before an attempt or actual plan gets carried out here. God help us all.

We try to preach this to all our surrounding Police Departments, for the most part they are very aggressive against Trespass on the railroad, especailly now that they know we are in the area and will follow up. Last summer a couple of teenagers had the book thrown at them, they threw up some Railroad Ties in a style that actually almost knocked an Amtrak Train off the tracks with 20 something odd passengers on board. They said it was a prank and didn't mean it, but from what I was told they were utilized as an example of what will happen to you when playing on the railroad like that.

You can derail a Freight train carry Tons and tons of Hazmat Chemicals, think of the diaster that would cause. In fact check this out http://www.wabamunresidents.com/spill_gallery.php?id= That's what could happen in your community, possibly by some kids who were just playing on the tracks and didn't realize that they could knock a train that easily off the tracks.


But a quick unrelated story interesting story that just occured the other night while at work.........

Some guy was riding his Mountain Bike down our Right-of-Way next to the tracks. Somehow he fell off his bike, smashed his head on the rail, rolled over away from the tracks. Well a train crew was very observant, notice a bike and then notice a human body right next to the tracks. My partner responded, found the bike and the man. He was bleeding heavy from the head, she was able to direct the ambulance out to the location and get him some first aid. He was lucky he didn't fall into the tracks because we would have found nothing of him, second he was lucky he was discovered in time before he bled out. Some Railroad officers get bored with Patroling our Tracks or Right-of-Ways but you'll be surprised what you find and discover. I'm working on a large Drug case right now, I can't mention the details here until sucessful prosecution.



You could only hope that Railroads will hire more officers in the future, at one time we were some of the largest police departments in this country, now there is but a few of us.

[N. A. Corbier]

Who's controlling your budgets? The Railroad, the Federal Government, or is it primarly grant monies?

The Railroads have been steadily cutting back on their LE budges for awhile now. I'm wondering if its affecting profit margins, if the grants aren't there anymore, or if the funding vectors from DOT/DOJ aren't there anymore.

[N. A. Corbier]

http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=15712

Cause federalizing aviation security worked so well...

Wonder what FOP and other LE unions say about this.

[HotelSecurity]

I could not believe what I read about 2 years ago. CN Rail Police negociated a new labour contract. In the article they mentioned that the department consisted of less than 80 individuals. 80 people to police the rail system of a country bigger than the US! I'm a scanner buff & have CN Police in the scanner. There are never more than 2 one man cars on duty in the Montreal area. I constantly hear them tell the dispatcher to send the local police to the scene because they are too far away.

Rail Police in Canada have full policing powers but unlike most police that get their authority from provincial Police Acts, their's comes from the federal Railway Act. It gives the railways the right to have their own police forces to protect their property. All their property. CP Rail used to own a chain of hotels. In at least one of them, the Chateau Champlain in Montreal, the security director was a CP Rail police officer.

The federal government is just now talking about improving rail security following 9/11. However they seem to be more focused on urban transit systems like the Montreal Metro.

Montreal's Metro (and busses) are patrolled by "Surveillance Agents". They carry PR-24s & handcuffs. They are not police officers, they enforce a city by-law which regulates conduct on the public transit system. They are well paid, about the same as a full time police officer.

http://www.stm.info/English/info/a-agents.htm

It was decided last year that the Montreal Police would take them over starting this year. It hasn't happened yet. There have been delays. I do not agree with Transit Police in urban areas. I think Transit Security is better. Police intervene AFTER incidents. Security PREVENT incidents. (Generally of course!)

[N. A. Corbier]

Police departments are moving more and more into prevention and abatement, for some reason. Perhaps they see a source of off-duty revenue generation, or the private sector is untrustworthy (in their eyes) to secure that area of prevention.

The last issue of Police Magazine has an article about the Conway (Ark) Police Department, which uses federal grants and alot of overtime to provide what amounts to security guard services to retailers. They wrap it up under the "Community Orientated Policing" brand, and will lease a uniformed police officer and vehicle to the retailer. The officer will perform escorts, patrol the lot for disorder, patrol inside for disorder, issue citations as needed in the parking lot (There's about 2 they can write for, its private property after all), and be a visible deterrent.

If they have an arrest, they will summon an on-duty officer to transport.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

[HotelSecurity]

Yep! It was the magic solution the Montreal Police suggested when we complained about us no longer legally being able to evict a guest who disturbs others. (see my post under Hotel Evictions for more information). We can hire an off-duty Montreal cop for about $67.00/hour. Problem is he still can't throw them out!

[Lawson]

As a joe-schmoe hotel guest, most, it would seem, would be more avid about following the directions of a commissioned police officer who is knocking at my door and telling me to shutup than "just some security guard." It's just another one of those "security can't tell me what to do, go get a REAL cop." kinda thing.

[ycaso77]

I think we have 3 Amtrak police for the whole state, I haven't seen one for months. We also have Metro North Commuter rail police you see driving around but as a regular presence not really. You would assume there would be more security but just a couple months ago it took a tv station walking around for hours in the railroad yard, getting into locomotives and commuter cars and filming it all and the open gates- just to get some holes in the fence repaired. Seems 911 has been forgotten and rail security is at the bottom of the pile.

[Mr. Security]

... You would assume there would be more security but just a couple months ago it took a tv station walking around for hours in the railroad yard, getting into locomotives and commuter cars and filming it all and the open gates- just to get some holes in the fence repaired. Seems 911 has been forgotten and rail security is at the bottom of the pile.

Actually, that TV news program is why I started this thread. Basically, RR security in CT is almost non-existent. But hey, whadda we know?

[ycaso77]

Actually, that TV news program is why I started this thread. Basically, RR security in CT is almost non-existent. But hey, whadda we know?

Sad but true. I did hear some rumbles a while back about the state DoT starting thier own security force for stations in CT. Maybe a central monitoring station for CCTV and alarms, but the rumbles have seemed to die off. I know theres Metro North, the few Amtrak cops, maybe a CSX cop or two and some agents for the rail out of Rhode Island. But I'm afraid it will take a whole bunch of candid camera appearances to change anything. Like you said, whadda we know???