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  • Unsecured Railroads

    NJ was in the news recently because investigative reporters were able to access tanker cars full of toxic chemicals (chlorine, etc.) without being challenged. Security was non-existent. The news crew was only stopped by a waste treatment facility vehicle security patrol (no connection with the RR) when leaving the area. A terrorist attack at this particular site would affect the tri-state area. The Governor elect has promised to take action once in office. When will they ever learn?!


    Last edited by Mr. Security; 01-23-2006, 09:01 AM. Reason: Picture
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

  • #2
    Seeing as how its the Railroad Police, and not Railroad Security, you'll have to talk to their union.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3

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      • #4
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        Seeing as how its the Railroad Police, and not Railroad Security, you'll have to talk to their union.
        You lost me on this post N.A.
        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mr. Security
          You lost me on this post N.A.
          Railroads do not have security forces. They have federally comissioned Railroad Police. One of, according to most LEOs, the best jobs in LE. This stems from the earliest days of private security, when Pinkerton agents working the railroads were considered real police.

          After all, take a look at Union Pacific, CSX, etc. They all have Railroad Police Officers, and a Railroad Police Department.
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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          • #6
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
            Railroads do not have security forces. They have federally comissioned Railroad Police. One of, according to most LEOs, the best jobs in LE.
            I really wish I knew why people think that...I looked into Amtrak's PD. No way. Not for $15.30 an hour...Especially not since there are allegedly only 3-5 officers in all of Washington State, and I was told by one of them they average 200-500 miles of driving a day. About the only pro I could see in the whole thing was the training opportunities...FLETC, bomb stuff, etc.

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            • #7
              I know a railroad cop in MI. It's a BS job. Not much police work and the benefits are terrible. Minimum retirement age is 65, whereas most Depts allow for retirement after 20-25 yrs and regardless of age

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              • #8
                One of the Sheriff's Deputies left the agency (my county) to be a RxR cop... I heard in less than a year he was a Sheriff's Deputy again.
                "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                "The Curve" 1998

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                  Railroads do not have security forces. They have federally comissioned Railroad Police. One of, according to most LEOs, the best jobs in LE. This stems from the earliest days of private security, when Pinkerton agents working the railroads were considered real police.

                  After all, take a look at Union Pacific, CSX, etc. They all have Railroad Police Officers, and a Railroad Police Department.
                  I already knew that. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention. (Yea, right! )

                  Nevertheless, the following article does not exude confidence in the effectiveness of RR police to thwart terrorism:

                  Railroad security is a ?joke? (The following story by Dennis Welch appeared on the East Valley Tribune website on December 8.)

                  MESA, Ariz. -- Arizonans are at risk of dying from terrorist attacks along the state?s 3,000 miles of railroad tracks because of nonexistent security, Arizona Corporation Commissioner Kris Mayes said Wednesday.

                  Mayes called security a "joke" after hearing that no federal money is being spent to guard the state?s railroads against a potential terrorist strike.

                  During a special meeting called to address safety, members of the commission?s railroad safety staff also noted that only one person is in charge of terrorist security for the railroads? entire Phoenix metropolitan network.
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #10
                    Our firm is heavily involved with rail security on a national scope. It is true that rail has recieved the short end of the stick as far as funding is concerned.

                    On the other hand, there are some very smart people involved in this sector and we feel that changes are occurring.

                    The issue is more political than technical as is usually the case.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wilrobnson
                      I really wish I knew why people think that...I looked into Amtrak's PD. No way. Not for $15.30 an hour...Especially not since there are allegedly only 3-5 officers in all of Washington State, and I was told by one of them they average 200-500 miles of driving a day. About the only pro I could see in the whole thing was the training opportunities...FLETC, bomb stuff, etc.
                      I have no idea why people think this. Personally, once I looked into Amtrak PD, I thought the job would be boring, with alot of work (driving into Chicago, etc, praying I wasn't assigned somewhere else...) for little pay.

                      I think people see it as a stepping stone to a "real" law enforcement job. Or something you stay in for a few years, milk, then come out of with "law enforcement experience" to start your own private operation. People really like to see, "Owned and Managed by a Former Federal Law Enforcement Officer" in the ads.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                      • #12
                        JH,

                        Feel free to PM me or shoot me an email. As we are pushing a standards based system that can be used acrossed the board, there is not really any trade secrets.

                        Talk soon.

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                        • #13
                          I'm a Railroad Police Officer or what the Railroad industry refers us to as Gumshoes....long history in the Railroad.

                          Spent nine years in Loss Prevention Management before I went into the Police Academy and "Discovered" the railroad police.

                          I love the job and yes the pay is great. The retirement benefits you can't beat but yes it's true the only bad thing is we have to be 60 years old and have 30 years in. But I'm told that will change, besides most departments are abloshing their retirement to 401k or they are raising their time in.

                          Plus we get stock options, 401k on top of our pension, also when I retire my wife will also get a pay check seperate from what I make.

                          As far as the security concerns go, I work near one of the largest Chemical areas in the United States also known as Chemical Valley. You enter our yard you will be spotted and arrested on site. We not only have Railroad Officers who carry Full Police powers, but their is also United States Customs and Border Protection Officers in the yard as well as U.S. Border Patrol agents.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gumshoe
                            .....
                            As far as the security concerns go, I work near one of the largest Chemical areas in the United States also known as Chemical Valley. You enter our yard you will be spotted and arrested on site....
                            Has your site security actually been tested by a mock terrorist group?
                            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                            • #15
                              You know I should have watched what I typed in the last post. Sorry I type a bit too fast and I forget to review what I type.

                              Is it possible to enter the yard and cause some damage? Definately I would have to say yes and we all know that is a possibility. No professional in the security field whether it be in Private Sector or Public can ever guarantee 100% physical security/access control yada yada.

                              From my understanding we never been tested, maybe we will one day. Being that the yard is a major port of Entry, we are constantly tested with Real World Scenerios such as the Illegal Aliens and their smugglers, the dope runners, homeless folks, kids trespassing, taggers, Theives, Gang Bangers and some Rail fans who get out of line, 98% of the time we never have an issue with a Rail Fan but once in awhile we catch them in the yard. Even though most of the things above are minor crimes they still keep you looking aka "Hunting" and sharpen your observation skills.

                              Now I can only answer for what I do, I'm very proactive, maybe it's because I'm young but I was always that way in the LP field and I did that for a long time. I look for tracks in the snow/mud. I set things up in the yard that trip off detection that someone was there. I utilize very "Old School" methods to find where my trepassers have been so I know later to start keeping in eye in that area. Plus it's not hard to determine where your points of entry are going to be when you lay out your Physical Security Plan. The rule of thumb is, if someone is in a train yard, they are up to no good. Folks just don't walk into a train yard for the hell of it, it's very dangerous.

                              Now with that said, I'm not always in my yard either. I'm a fully certified Police Officer so I'm also out making traffic stops or maybe I'm patrolling our Right of Way. I could also be backing up local Police Depts or State Police. Once in awhile I make arrests or traffic stops that are non railroad related.

                              A perfect example of the partnership we have here. The other night, 3 guys walked through our yard taking a short cut over a via-duct (Bridge). Right away they were spotted by a Clerk who works for the Railroad, he calls it out on the radio. I was on the scene in a minute, Two Federal Agents were on scene a minute later backing me up and then local police showed up to back me up. We eventually found the guys in an adjacent neighborhood. They were pretty innocent guys and were eventually released with a verbal warning. But it just goes to show you the kinda of intensity that we have in my area. Not all rail yards are like that though, I know some police officers who sleep on the job from time to time....heck who here doesn't know someone that does that. I can't, I get too scared, your a target just waiting to get shot.

                              I definately think that their is a need for more Law Enforcement to protect the Rail Infrastructure, but we will never get it. They hired 3 Railroad Police Officers for my yard alone, including a K9 that detects narcotics and tracks.

                              In the past week I arrested three people on trespassing charges, and one for Theft and another for MDOP (Property Damage, it wasn't railroad related but it was near our property).

                              We also have Amtrak here and we provide protection for their property since Amtrak does not have officers in our state any longer.


                              Sorry for the long drawn out story, but I'm just trying to convey my side a little better. We all could use more security, but the reality is, it will never happen. We just have to work with what we have and hope for the best.

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