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  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Just to set the record straight

    I think everyone should obtain a college education, but here are the requirements for CPP and CFE:

    CPP - Eligibility Requirements
    Applicants must meet one of the following requirements to be accepted as a CPP™ candidate:
    Education: An earned bachelor's degree or higher from an accredited institution of higher education and work Experience: Seven (7) years of security experience, including at least three (3) years in responsible charge of a security function
    OR
    Work Experience: Nine (9) years of security experience, including at least three (3) years in responsible charge of a security function.
    Eligibility requirements also include no prior conviction of any criminal offense that would reflect negatively on the security profession or on ASIS International and its certification programs

    CFE - Academic Requirements
    Generally, applicants for CFE certification have a minimum of a Bachelor's degree (or equivalent) from an institution of higher learning. No specific field of study is required. If you do not have a Bachelor's degree, you may substitute two years of fraud-related professional experience for each year of academic study. For example, if you successfully attended college full-time for only two years, you would need an additional four years of professional experience to qualify for the education requirements.

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  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    John - You're correct. The only product I sell is my knowledge and time.

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  • john_harrington
    replied
    Originally posted by tlangsr
    That actually doesn't seem to be to bad. I don't plan on doing any of that for some time yet. I definently want a lot more experience and my credit is shot. I will be eventually be going to school for a degree in Security Management. I haven't really decided on whether or not I would like to be a consultant or PSC Owner.
    Todd,

    Like others here, I applaud your ambition and your looking toward your future.

    There is no one way to become a security consultant. In my opinion those that are most successful have started in the industry in some focused capacity (security guard services, technician, store detective, etc) and become proficient at that skill. The thing to understand about consulting is that you are being paid for your knowledge and the techniques and processes you bring to bear on a project- things that only can be gained and refined through experience.

    Regarding your credit being "shot", start repairing your it now. Buy what you can afford and pay your bills on time. It will take years to straighten it out but it may be crucial to your success in this business for 2 reasons:
    1. Many companies and organizations will review your credit prior to hiring you.
    2. Your credit will be reviewed when applying for a DOD or other government clearance.

    Of course if you plan to start your own business, you will need good credit. Only larger corporations and businesses have built up enough credit so that the owners do not have to sign personally.

    Good luck in your endeavors!!

    John

    Leave a comment:


  • tlangsr
    replied
    thank you all. I have some psych classes and Alot of math related classes including accounting. Math isn't my favorite subject but I gotta do it to be successful. I haven't decided what side to veer off to yet, consulting or PSC. I know that it will come in time, I still have some learning to do, I know that I will be trying to get a managerial position in the near future to prepare me for my business.

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  • hrdickinson
    replied
    Originally posted by tlangsr
    I read up on the security industry whenever I get the chance. I definently know that I will need alot more experience in order to be sucessful. Can u imagine starting up right now? I would need a security consultant to teach me how to run a security consultant business.
    I am afraid you're right! A successful consulting venture results from many years in an industry making mistakes and learning from them until you acquire the wisdom to advise others. I have been in the industry for almost 30 years but never in an operational role except at a very senior level.
    Even after all that time, for example, I would never try to advise someone as to how to conduct a site survery, except in very general terms.

    I applaud your entrepreuneral spirit, but there may better areas at which to direct it

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Chucky
    I majored in Business Management with a minor in Psychology and English. Turned out that the Psychology course was the most interesting for me whereas the English class was a total bore. I'm not sure that I was totally prepared for the amount of math presented in BM. At times I thought I was majoring in accounting. At that time Dale Carnegie was the preferred reading and very interesting. On the psychic side a Doctor name Jung was the hot item in the field.

    One of the experiments that seems to have stuck in my head was they set up a baby gate in a hallway and put 3 year old girls behind it. The girls would start by crying and immediately resigned that they had no other choices to get past. As the boys all looked at the problem and tried climbing over to figuring out how to open it although a few did get frustrated and gave up after trying.
    Chucky, I remember an instructor from the Air Police Academy at Lackland AFB telling us: Clearly a single solution doesn't apply in every case. As psychologist Abraham Maslow said, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."
    Far too security managers still have that mentality with communication between other players in the security game not having a place at the table. In my government service as a security specialist conducting surveys or inspection and subsequently in consulting work, some security or building managers have never met those people whom he will be dealing with in an emergency. Every day talking with those players never occurs. I have visited parts of the building the security manager never knew existed, chemical storage areas just to name one.
    No business sense and in many instances totally void of effective communications skills in both the written and spoken word.
    This is an interesting topic. When sending out my security guide to a prospective client, they are stunned to learn of the depth and scope to which I propose to look and comment about, just routine security for which they are accountable to whomever. Common response, we don't want that deep of a survey. John Ruth's little saying comes into play, "If you don't want to see the Genie, don't rub the lamp."
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Chucky
    replied
    I majored in Business Management with a minor in Psychology and English. Turned out that the Psychology course was the most interesting for me whereas the English class was a total bore. I'm not sure that I was totally prepared for the amount of math presented in BM. At times I thought I was majoring in accounting. At that time Dale Carnegie was the preferred reading and very interesting. On the psychic side a Doctor name Jung was the hot item in the field.

    One of the experiments that seems to have stuck in my head was they set up a baby gate in a hallway and put 3 year old girls behind it. The girls would start by crying and immediately resigned that they had no other choices to get past. As the boys all looked at the problem and tried climbing over to figuring out how to open it although a few did get frustrated and gave up after trying.
    Last edited by Chucky; 03-25-2007, 09:46 AM.

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  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    I agree. Anytime someone who is looking to make a career in the retail loss prevention industry askes me about what degree to go after, I tell them business.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by tlangsr
    I enrolled and will start on thursday to get my BS in Business Management. I may actually learn a thing or two I can pass down to my bosses.
    Bravo!

    I'm particularly impressed by your choice of major, because if there's anything we lack most in this industry, it's people with knowledge about how to run a business successfully.

    It will also set you up nicely for management of a security operation in a company that has its own proprietary security program, like a manufacturing or a transportation company. The business executives who run these companies like to have security managers who know how the security function fits into the operation of the business as a whole.

    Leave a comment:


  • tlangsr
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer
    All education - no matter whether it is acquired in the formal classroom or by a program of self-directed reading, interviews with industry experts, etc. - is ultimately a "personal" or an "internal" mental activity. Not even the best teacher in the world is able to "pour knowledge" into someone's head.

    The advantages of formal education are these:

    1. You are brought into contact with instructors who are (presumably) experts in the field. As a student, you might drop by their office or converse with them by email for information that would cost you big money if you were their private consulting client.

    2. You are placed within a framework that is designed to ensure that you will be exposed to the important principles in a stepwise fashion and not miss any. You will be challenged to think about these principles, and you will be given "fail-safe" opportunities to apply them to different situations and to be critiqued in a constructive way on your "performance" before someone's life or property really depend on you knowing what you're doing.

    3. You will encounter other students at all levels of their own development, many of whom have a rich store of experiences. Shooting the breeze with these students can be as valuable as the instructor's expertise. For instance, in my classes at AMU, I was frequently simply awe-struck by the military experience of many of my fellow students, some of whom had years of experience in the military police, "CID" type military agencies, military intelligence, special operations, etc. They now wanted to add the degree to their military training and were tremendous assets to the class. (The instructors themselves were even more awe-inspiring, incidentally.)

    4. You will earn a degree, which is one of the requirements for most important credentials in the field such as CPP, CFE, etc.

    Even given those advantages, you should have your own reading program anyway because you can never know it all, or know "too much". So, why not put together a reading list and get started on it, even if the moment isn't right for you to enroll in formal classes at this time? You'll still be moving the ball down the field.
    I enrolled and will start on thursday to get my BS in Business Management. I may actually learn a thing or two I can pass down to my bosses.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    All education - no matter whether it is acquired in the formal classroom or by a program of self-directed reading, interviews with industry experts, etc. - is ultimately a "personal" or an "internal" mental activity. Not even the best teacher in the world is able to "pour knowledge" into someone's head.

    The advantages of formal education are these:

    1. You are brought into contact with instructors who are (presumably) experts in the field. As a student, you might drop by their office or converse with them by email for information that would cost you big money if you were their private consulting client.

    2. You are placed within a framework that is designed to ensure that you will be exposed to the important principles in a stepwise fashion and not miss any. You will be challenged to think about these principles, and you will be given "fail-safe" opportunities to apply them to different situations and to be critiqued in a constructive way on your "performance" before someone's life or property really depend on you knowing what you're doing.

    3. You will encounter other students at all levels of their own development, many of whom have a rich store of experiences. Shooting the breeze with these students can be as valuable as the instructor's expertise. For instance, in my classes at AMU, I was frequently simply awe-struck by the military experience of many of my fellow students, some of whom had years of experience in the military police, "CID" type military agencies, military intelligence, special operations, etc. They now wanted to add the degree to their military training and were tremendous assets to the class. (The instructors themselves were even more awe-inspiring, incidentally.)

    4. You will earn a degree, which is one of the requirements for most important credentials in the field such as CPP, CFE, etc.

    Even given those advantages, you should have your own reading program anyway because you can never know it all, or know "too much". So, why not put together a reading list and get started on it, even if the moment isn't right for you to enroll in formal classes at this time? You'll still be moving the ball down the field.

    Leave a comment:


  • tlangsr
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric
    Reading up on the subject will not replace a good education grounding and work exp. but is something you can do prior too that education.

    Learn laws / codes / regulations relevant to the specific consulting you will do or enjoy

    Read books on consulting (library), I thought Security Consulting by Charles Sennewald was done well ( He also talks of IAPSC and the CPP designation)

    Learn about local need for a business lic. & what marketing routes work, tax's etc.
    I read up on the security industry whenever I get the chance. I definently know that I will need alot more experience in order to be sucessful. Can u imagine starting up right now? I would need a security consultant to teach me how to run a security consultant business.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric
    Reading up on the subject will not replace a good education grounding and work exp. but is something you can do prior too that education.

    Learn laws / codes / regulations relevant to the specific consulting you will do or enjoy

    Read books on consulting (library), I thought Security Consulting by Charles Sennewald was done well ( He also talks of IAPSC and the CPP designation)

    Learn about local need for a business lic. & what marketing routes work, tax's etc.
    Here's a link to Charles Sennewald's books http://www.securityconsultingstrateg...s_Authors.html
    Before someone asks...I provide this page to fellow members of the IAPSC at no charge. I receive no compensation for listing authors or their books.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by tlangsr
    For those of us who are doing Security as a career what are some ways that we can go about becoming security consultants?

    How about Private Security Company Owners?
    "Security" is obviously an enormous domain, and one that offers opportunities to people with many kinds of talents and interests. The "computer geek" can work in information security. The "engineer" or "technician" type can work with alarm, access, fire and other kinds of security systems. The "salesman" type can find opportunities in all of the "subdomains". The "investigator" type can do that kind of work and specialize in any of dozens of "sub-sub-specialties" (like insurance fraud). The "people" type might be interested in training, education or intelligence.

    These are all subdomains of security. Within each subdomain, there would be opportunities to either work as an employee (some of whom are highly paid), manage a proprietary department, consult, or manage your own company. So, I think I would start by deciding which of the subdomains interests you most and fits your personality best.

    Then, I would concentrate on that subdomain, both in terms of employment and education/training. Even an entry-level position, if it is within that subdomain, would seem to be one of the logical first steps to take. Look seriously for companies that might offer an "educational" benefit to employees.

    If you cannot afford to take formal training/education, begin a serious reading program of your own, and start to build a library of the best books in the field. Self-directed reading is a habit you should keep for the rest of your life anyway, no matter how much formal education you might be able to afford. I have learned at least as much from my own reading as I learned in formal courses. Discover the difference between "reading for learning" (stopping to think about what you're reading) and merely "reading to get to the end of this book as fast as I can so I can say that I read it".

    Learn about professional organizations in your chosen subdomain and, if possible, join at least one of them, particularly one that has a local chapter in your area (for "networking" purposes as well as training). Then, attend the meetings!

    Sooner or later, if you're successful and move up in any of these subdomains, you will need and want some business training. This will be true whether you want to manage, consult, or own your own business. It is absolutely not necessary to obtain business training through expensive college courses. The American Management Association offers many certificate programs (from general management to accounting/finance, human resource management, etc.) to private individuals as well as through many colleges, so you don't have to pay the "college tuition rates" if you have the self-discipline to start a self-study course AND FINISH IT. The AMA courses are highly practical as well, incidentally (many involve case studies, not just "theory"), and are well-regarded. An AMA certificate requires, I believe, 10 "units" selected from a menu of course choices in that particular area, and courses are either 1 or 2 units each. 1-unit courses are around $125 each and 2-unit courses are around $150. This means that you can complete a certificate for under $1500 total...and of course, you "pay as you go", taking each course as you can afford to pay for it, which is much easier on your budget.

    Planning beyond these steps probably isn't necessary or even particularly useful. These steps will place you "on track", and what you do from there will be determined in large part by future events in your career and by developments in that subdomain of security. Events beyond your control, such as 9/11, have a significant role in shaping the field...and hence, the opportunities. Also, as you work in a field, you will learn more about your particular inclinations than you can possibly know right now.

    You can't know at this point what opportunities will present themselves four or five years from now or what hidden talents you will discover as you move along in your career. The big thing is to get started on the "right" track for you right now, to do these first steps to the very best of your ability, to make use of multiple avenues of educating yourself in the field, and then to recognize and take advantage of whatever opportunities come along.

    Very best wishes to you and all the others here who want to carve out real careers in this dynamic and fascinating industry. If you want to succeed and dedicate yourself to being the best you can be, you will succeed.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 03-18-2007, 11:17 AM.

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  • Eric
    replied
    Reading up on the subject will not replace a good education grounding and work exp. but is something you can do prior too that education.

    Learn laws / codes / regulations relevant to the specific consulting you will do or enjoy

    Read books on consulting (library), I thought Security Consulting by Charles Sennewald was done well ( He also talks of IAPSC and the CPP designation)

    Learn about local need for a business lic. & what marketing routes work, tax's etc.

    Leave a comment:

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