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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    About asking security what is going on during a fire alarm. We usually don't know. I am very fortunate in that in Montreal if there are a minimum of 3 staff on duty, we are allowed to have a 2 stage fire alarm system. With this system the general alarm only rings if an evacuation is required. The pre-alarm is not heard by guests. The 2 man "brigade" (Maintenance & Security) investigate while 1 person stands by the fire panel. If there is ANY sign of a real fire then the general aalrm is turned on. It has a fail safe in that if the pre-alarm is not acknowledged the general alarm will automatically ring after 3 minutes.

    Very necessary especially these past few months while we are having a new system installed. We are having more than 50 alarms per month!

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
    Of course, the problem faced by HotelSecurity is that he can't drill the majority of his evacuees - i.e., the guests who will need to flee the building in the event of fire.

    I was in a very good hotel in Vegas once when the fire alarm went off at about 3 a.m. It was complete pandemonium and I have to admit that even with my training I had not bothered to read the fire instructions that were posted on the inside of every room when I checked in. Fortunately, there was no fire (and that caused a PR crisis for the hotel), but you can bet I've never made that mistake again!

    It's odd what happens to your pants and shoes when the fire alarm goes off in a hotel...you can bet they won't be where you put them.
    I was in a hotel at one point when the fire alarm went off. What was worse than not being able to find my pants or shoes was that I just got in, was in full uniform, with rig.

    So, evacuating, everyone immediately thought that I was the security guard and asked what happened, etc.

    When I found the actual guard, he was in-house, wore a generic security uniform shirt and a hotel name tag, and was hastily dressed. Which meant that everyone continued to ask the man in the nice uniform and smokey bear hat what was going on, even the police.

    About 20% of the hotel actually evacuated. The fire department had to bust two doors in, the occupants were sleeping and refused to open the door.

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Well Bill, they have a template with fill in the blanks. I fill them in, I have the Maids as the floor Wardens etc except if you ever roamed an hotel during the day time I would be surprised if you found 5% of the guests in their rooms. Another problem we have is when the otel is not busy a Maid assigned to the 19th floor can be given rooms on the 2nd floor. According the city fire plan she is supposed to go up to the 19th floor when their is an alarm! Plus we have a Miad that is deaf. She does a grwat job cleaning rooms but in case of a fire alarm we have to go help her, she can not help guests

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  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill Warnock View Post
    Show me an efficient police, fire, hospital, baseball, football, basketball team or military unit successful in their endevors having never practiced?
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill
    Of course, the problem faced by HotelSecurity is that he can't drill the majority of his evacuees - i.e., the guests who will need to flee the building in the event of fire.

    I was in a very good hotel in Vegas once when the fire alarm went off at about 3 a.m. It was complete pandemonium and I have to admit that even with my training I had not bothered to read the fire instructions that were posted on the inside of every room when I checked in. Fortunately, there was no fire (and that caused a PR crisis for the hotel), but you can bet I've never made that mistake again!

    It's odd what happens to your pants and shoes when the fire alarm goes off in a hotel...you can bet they won't be where you put them.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 09-09-2007, 01:48 AM.

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    HotelSecurity you are in an unfortunate situation. I should hope the FD has stated in writing what is acceptable to them. If they have failed to do so, then your best bet would be to prepare a memorandum of understanding signed by your corporate counsel and a certified copy sent to the Chief of the Fire Department. You are wise to keep a copy of your own plan that will cover most contingencies and have that staffed with your corporate counsel.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Bill, the Montreal Fire Departmen as most major city fire departments require that hotels & other places where the public gathers have a written plan that has to be submitted to them & approved. The only problem I have with it is they only approve a plan that is based on office building evacuation. They will not except one made especially for hotels. The ask for staff to clear rooms, floors wardens etc. In most hotels we are full of staff in the daytime but the tourists are out touring & the businessmen are out at business meetings. At night my downtown hotel can have 2000 guests with 4 or 5 staff. I have been fighting the fire department for years over this. So much so that I actually have 2 plans. One approved by the fire department in a nice well kept binder & another that we really use

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
    As Bill says we need to look at what has happened elsewhere to see what we have to do. Montreal had the FLQ in the 70's, since then it has been quiet. Working in an hotel I see first hand the attitude of others. An Israeli or Northern Ireland guest will go to the front desk & complain about the suitcase left in the hallway on the 8th floor. A North American guest is more likely to steal it!!
    Well said HotelSecurity. There is one hole in many of the security plans I've been asked to evaluate. That hole is coordination with outside agencies on whom they will depend upon for assistance. On the bottom of most plans the coordination for the most part is limited to in-house coordination which should be on the Requested Action Page sent to all the internal divisions within the corporation. Then there is a separate Requested Action Page that accompanies the DRAFT Plan taken to local police, fire and emergency response personnel to include the local or regional hospital.
    These agencies must review the plan and incorporate it into their master plan. Don't let your feelings be hurt when they ask you to make changes to their response portion and ensure other coordinated outside agencies see the comments made by others.
    After all changes and suggestions have been considered and or made, send it out for final coordination. And whatever else you do, ensure the names and telephone numbers of the agencies who will support your plan are current and kept up-to-date. Nothing is more discouraging that to find out the names of agencies have changed and your contact names list people who retired, died or transferred out of the job. In time of emergency, nothing is more discouraging than to dial a number and be told that number is no longer in service.
    Avoid the temptation to "short-sheet" the coordination system by having an
    Assumptions Page stating as cold hard fact that we assume these agencies listed will be able to respond to our needs when we haven't even said boo to them.
    Then after all is said and done the plan must be practiced and player participate to include the selected alternates. When weaknesses are noted by those chosen to be referees, take immediate corrective action and then reschedule another drill. Get representatives from the police, fire and hospital to participate. This means coordination well in advance of the exercise date.
    When one irate client told me, "Mr. Warnock, you can't expect military precision and have people snap to." I responded in as dour an expression that could be mustered, "Would you rather see your people hustle now or be moved out in body bags?" All this poor man did was look down at the ground and slowly shake his head. That response sunk in.
    Trite but true, "It is hard to make chicken soup with chicken manure." Show me an efficient police, fire, hospital, baseball, football, basketball team or military unit successful in their endevors having never practiced?
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Warnock; 09-08-2007, 09:58 PM. Reason: Missing words

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    As Bill says we need to look at what has happened elsewhere to see what we have to do. Montreal had the FLQ in the 70's, since then it has been quiet. Working in an hotel I see first hand the attitude of others. An Israeli or Northern Ireland guest will go to the front desk & complain about the suitcase left in the hallway on the 8th floor. A North American guest is more likely to steal it!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Interim Bomb Threat Annex to Security Guide

    I hope this information is of some assistance to those trying to put something together. I read some later guidance which was a rehash of previously published information, so liking the original, stuck with it.

    e. Bomb Threat? Dated? When was it last exercised? Does it contain these hard to remember items?

    (1) Structural screening? Will the structure collapse?

    (2) Who is at risk from flying and falling glass?

    (3) Is security integrated? More guards do not necessarily make us safer from bombs!

    (4) Enforced standoff? Can potential vehicle bombs be kept at a meaningful distance from the facility?

    (5) How do we get the operation back to normal? (Source: *© “What Is Practical Bomb Defense for American Businesses?” by Ronald J. Massa, Ph.D., Security Technology and Design®, November, 1999.)

    (6) Have avenues of evacuation or escape been altered to assure realism?

    (7) Have bomb blankets been provided? If provided, what are their ratings?

    (8) *Is mail screened, by whom, and what with? Is each piece screened separately? If not, explain why not? Are test exercises conducted, if so by whom? (Remember Judge Shaw, 1995) *DO NOT use fluoroscopic devices for initial screening as fluoroscopically sensitive photodiodes in a bomb might trigger an explosion. Use a standard x-ray machine. Let the bomb squad use a fluoroscope‼ (*Source: Confidential law enforcement agent)

    (9) Is unopened mail ever delivered to corporate executives? If so, explain why?

    (10) Have all employees been trained in bomb detection commensurate with their individual duties? Who provided the training? Remember “training for error” and “cognitive set error.” Have the curricula vitae of the instructors been verified?

    (11) What actions are taken when a suspicious letter or package is discovered?

    (12) Are personnel unfamiliar with a particular area prohibited from searching that area?

    (13) Are members of the security staff familiar with the operational characteristics of accumulator circuits?

    (14) Are members of the security staff familiar with altered look alike devices and how they have been rigged to explode?

    (15) The following is a guide as to determining evacuation distances. (Source: ATF & FBI, California Highway Patrol and San Jose Police Department)

    Threat Explosives Building Outdoor
    Device Capacity Evacuation Distance Evacuation Distance

    Pipe Bomb 5 Lbs 70ft/21M 850ft/259M
    Briefcase 50lbs 150/46 1850/564
    Small Car 500lbs 320/98 1500/457
    Sedan 1000lbs 400/122 1750/534
    Cargo Van 4000lbs 640/195 2750/838
    Small Truck 10,000lbs 860/263 3750/1143
    Water Truck 30,000lbs 1240/375 6500/1982
    Semi Trailer 60,000lbs 1570/475 7000/2134

    The capacity is given in the TNT equivalent. For further information contact the Federal Government Technical Support Working Group (TSWG) by visiting their web site: http://www.tswg.gov/tswg/prods_pubs/newBTSCPress.htm

    (16) *”Just before Christmas in 1983, a car bomb detonated outside London's Harrod's department store. Within minutes, trained department store personnel led shoppers out of the store, urging them to evacuate the area in case a second bomb was planted nearby. Police officers, appearing from nowhere, kept everyone -- except for the six dead -- moving. In Europe, terrorism has been a way-of-life for years. But U.S. shoppers -- and mall owners -- have been slow to prepare. Ever since Sept. 11, mall operators have been preparing for the unthinkable: a shopping center bombing.

    So what are mall owners doing to reduce threats and make shoppers feel secure? They are retraining guards, installing closed-circuit television equipment, running evacuation drills, installing shock-resistant glass and redirecting traffic flow, among other measures.

    Many are looking abroad and taking notes from the hard-learned lessons of other countries, especially Israel and Britain. So far, they've resisted the scariest and most overt measures that might frighten shoppers away, such as metal detectors, arbitrary searches and physiological profiling -- but perhaps not for long.

    September 11 was a terrible wake-up call, especially in the U.S.," says David Levenberg, vice president of loss prevention and security at General Growth Properties Inc., which operates some 200 U.S. malls. "We've taken a number of measures to try and deter any act that might take place." (*Source: News Section, “Security Beat e-mail Newsletter,” © Access Control and Security Systems ®, 11-11-03)

    NOTE: The attitude of “… besides my head is well protected by the sand around it,” is a recipe for assured self-destruction.

    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

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  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sgt koolaid View Post
    nice check list but i have the whole of do's and dont's as well
    Oh, sorry - thought that's what you were asking for.

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  • CAPTAIN KOOLAID
    replied
    bomb threats

    nice check list but i have the whole of do's and dont's as well

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  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sgt koolaid View Post
    Does anyone have bomb check list? If you like one can scan and post it.
    The ATF site says it no longer publishes the checklist and you have to request it in writing, blah-blah. Apparently, the state of Tennessee dept of homeland security is unaware of this, as it's posted on their site at:

    http://www.state.tn.us/homelandsecur..._checklist.pdf

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Sgt koolaid View Post
    Does anyone have bomb check list? If you like one can scan and post it.
    To assure yourself you have the most current information, recommend you contact your local ATF office and get that data. If you have a good working relationship with your local law enforcement agency, seek their help in developing an annex to your security plan. Plan on attending one of their regional exercises and get some teeth jarring information. It's neat to hear a beep-beep rather than being vaporized by an explosion. It is a mind-blowing experience.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • CAPTAIN KOOLAID
    replied
    bomb threats

    Does anyone have bomb check list? If you like one can scan and post it.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by EMTGuard
    I got to work Friday evening and during pass on the Day shift superviosr tells me "We had an interesting day today." Seems he was sitting in the guard shack when the head of the plant walked over form the nearby administration building. With him was a young lady who was working that day as a temporary secretary/calltaker. She had received a bomb threat and they were at the guard shack to report it. The sherrif's office was notified and the deputies showed up with their K-9 unit. The FBI was notified. It was a heck of a day. No device was found and eventually all of the little office workers were allowed back in thier cubicals.
    Stuff like that never happens on night shift. I love night shift.

    Wow! In Montreal the Police refuse to search inside a building. They search outside only. I covered why in another post.

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