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  • S Messina
    replied
    The company I work for has tasers. It is all in house training and getting hit is not required. When they first got them they did do some training were employees voluntered to be hit. So far, the tasers have never been used in the field.

    In California: "Use of Tasers Propelled by Compressed Gas by Registered Security Guards

    The Bureau of Security and Investigative Services lacks jurisdiction to dictate whether a registered guard, while acting in the course and scope of licensed employment, may possess an “air” taser for self-defense. Existing law specifies how the devices may be used. Those laws prohibit the possession and use of tasers in specific places.

    No California statute prohibits the purchase of a taser or the use of a taser for self-defense. The Private Security Services Act does not specifically address the use of tasers in security guard employment.

    Therefore, the Bureau neither endorses nor prohibits the use of these devices."

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  • SecureTN
    replied
    I have been hit with the Taser... Not fun, and I don't plan on doing it again, I don't understand it.

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    I don't know if Workmen's Compensation in Quebec would allow you to have to be hit with a Taser in order to be certified. Most of my hotel employees (including security, Nathan ) take a course given by the Montreal Fire Department to civilians in order to teach them basic firefighting & evacuation. In the old days they would light up the wet hay in the basement of the smoke house & walk us through to give us a feel of what it was to be in smoke. Someone complained to the CSST (Worker's Compensation). They no longer use real smoke. They now use the non irritating theater smoke. It still gives you a little idea of what it is like to be in a smoky building but nothing like what it is really like.

    However since in Canada we can't have Tasers I guess it's a moot point

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  • Charger
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Good News: Taser International does not require you to take a hit any more than Beretta and Safariland would like you to test their vest.
    I'm still trying to understand the reasoning behind taking a taser hit as part of the certification...

    With OC, you get sprayed and, (if you have a good instructor), have to perform tasks such as cuffing, baton use, etc. The purpose is so that you know what your own body is still capable of doing if you get exposed to it in a fight. (Backspray from wind, rushing in to cuff before allowing it to dissapate, etc.)

    With a taser, you already KNOW what your body will do. Spasm & stiffen up until the hit ends. Aside from the mentioned 'entertainment factor' for your coworkers, I just don't get it.

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  • FDG06
    replied
    In WA & a few other states I have friends working, in order to obtain a state working LEO cert for taser, you have to get hit once for the crowd.
    I think, (not 100% sure), that some companies, like Boeing Security Police, who do carry tasers at the supervisor level, dont have to get hit in order to carry on the job..be intersting to hear from anyone working a gig at boeing or similar co's. who maybe in the know.
    Yoda

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Good News: Taser International does not require you to take a hit any more than Beretta and Safariland would like you to test their vest.

    Leave a comment:


  • FDG06
    replied
    I guess I'm out of the loop on what some considered "armed security/guard" or just been lucky in gig'n GSA deployments.
    I'd never carry a firearm, especially a revolver without back up ammo, even when off duty concealed carry. I'd never carry a weapon openly while in uniform, without a vest, period. A great company would require it, a good company would recomend it and a bad one would not do either & I would not work for a bad company.
    My primary job#1 is to go home each day.
    I've always had a required full kit (OC, Baton, Folder under 2.5 inches, Duty weapon..normally a 9mm berretta, 3 full 15rnd mags, a primary flashlight, 2nd small tactical light, hand cuffs, flex cuffs (un-staged hiding around the duty belt) and at minimum a Lvl IIA Vest) and the statutory authority to use them.

    I agree, as stated, that the firearm in most all cases is simply a deterent, the point being made however, that its hardly useless even if thats the only role it ever plays. It can often make the only difference in keeping a potentially violent situation from going seriously sideways..but its not a cure all for crime. I hope I didnt portrait that idea previously. I have been in spots, when it (on me or out at arms length) and all my closest armed friends in blue, didnt make a difference in the world..the guy was going to do, what he felt he needed to do regardless. The relavent detail is, I had it - versus not.

    I'm "iffy" on the taser deal, I'd rather go with OC personally, since the response it creates is nearly always consistent if you deploy correctly. I've watched guys get hit once with a taser & settle right down with the program, then I've seen guys, even 1 girl, get hit, do the horizontal scream N freak till it cycles out & pop right back up for more. In these cases, if memory serves me, the officers resorted to batons/firearm drawn, so the taser in effect was nothing more then entertainment value.
    The range & repeated application handicaps are a genuine issue, the visual & audioable deterent & the fact that once they cycle out & the tiny barbed dart holes scab off, there is no permenent injury or pain, make them a valueable LESS LETHAL tool for those that want it, but certainly no replacement for any primary firearm.
    Personally, I got enough crap to carry.. dont need anything else strapped to my off side leg if I can avoid it, plus I'm not real crazy about the cert process of taking a hit for the enjoyment of your fellow sidekicks..I am sure glad they dont shoot me to certifiy me on firearms... I think off cuff, if you bring a taser to a gun fight, your not going to do so well on the priority job #1 objective!
    Yoda

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by FDG06
    Also push (if you can) for less then lethal devices, such as OC &/or batons, what you dont want is to ONLY have the deadly force option available to you, when responding to whatever just kicked off. Its all or nothing..1/2 way just wont cut it. Best of luck.
    Yoda
    I've seen many companies issue a firearm with no additional ammunition and six bullets. Usually .38 caliber revolvers. Some may authorize a flashlight and pair of handcuffs. Some tell you to wear the firearm on the trouser belt, because only police need duty belts.

    You have three force options:
    - Talk
    - Run
    - Kill

    You are only certified, if you live in a state that requires it, in one, and that isn't talking or running. The gun is mainly a visible deterrent, like everything else, and is mainly worthless.

    Since these companies state you will not respond to anything, what good is even having the gun present?

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    A taser is never a substitute for a firearm.

    When people suggest this, it tells me that they've never held, used, or been certified with the weapon. It has one shot. It can only effectively hit a target from 7 to 15 feet. If you get a disconnect or low-muscle mass hit, it won't work as well or at all.

    Never, ever, bring a taser or a baton or anything but a gun to a gun fight. My old boss wanted to drop firearms for tasers. After he actually watched the Taser videos, he understood why you should keep your guns and put tasers on the belt as a less-lethal weapon.

    Never confuse a less-lethal weapon for a lethal one.

    Leave a comment:


  • cnick001
    replied
    Short of taking the leap to firearms, the taser pistols now on the market are another idea if they are legal in your area. They offer deturrent, protection for yourself, as well as lesser liability, and less required training.

    Leave a comment:


  • FDG06
    replied
    I know I'm a newbie on the forum here but not to the industry.
    I can tell you, if you have the option of being armed, take it. Yes it requires more training, licensing, gear,etc & the Co.s liability sky rockets. ..but this applies to most things in life that require an elevated responsability.
    From an experience stand point, if you in a hot zone,(I've been in many, including fire free zones) the simple fact that you have the ability to respond with deadly force if the situation warrants it, not only makes you far more effective as an officer,even at low risk incidents, but it actually is less likely then, that you would need to use such force to de-escalate a situation or effect control over an individual. It works in reverse many times.

    The power of a firearm on ones hip is not its actual fire power 99% of the time, but the implied knowledge by all parties, that it can be put to use. (LFI teaching) How many people every year are held up, robbed, raped & all other host of nasty human scum behavior, with toy guns or guns that were never used, actually seen, etc..see my point.
    There are arguments on both sides of course, but the fact that I was armed ( as an officer & yes always with the whole kit) has more then once, made the sole difference in a situation. Ask yourself how effective you could be, if you had an active shooter situation 10 ft from you and you were unarmed..unprepared (both literally & training wise) to effect the nessicary response to save an innocents life, your fellow officers, principle's life or your own.
    On a personal note, It also is an advancement in your experience / training life profile, should you ever want to move onward or upward (going from anunarmed to an armed position).
    Always wear your vest (get your own new one, not a hand down used 20yr old issued piece soem co's hand out) when your openly carrying a firearm on the job..if your Co has a policy that doesnt allow vest, but issues you a firearm, find another job!
    Also push (if you can) for less then lethal devices, such as OC &/or batons, what you dont want is to ONLY have the deadly force option available to you, when responding to whatever just kicked off. Its all or nothing..1/2 way just wont cut it. Best of luck.
    Yoda

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by histfan71
    Rsting,

    Are the guards there in-house, or contract? That would make a big difference. Do you have citizen's arrest powers? That would also make a difference.

    I have always felt that if you are going to be enforcing laws and arresting people, then you need to be armed with a firearm. Of course, I am also of the opinion that security guards should leave actual arrests to the trained professionals (i.e. the police), otherwise I will echo what N.A. Corbier has told you.
    I'm a "trained professional." My profession is hotel security.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Rsting,

    Are the guards there in-house, or contract? That would make a big difference. Do you have citizen's arrest powers? That would also make a difference.

    I have always felt that if you are going to be enforcing laws and arresting people, then you need to be armed with a firearm. Of course, I am also of the opinion that security guards should leave actual arrests to the trained professionals (i.e. the police), otherwise I will echo what N.A. Corbier has told you.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric
    6000 Residents, that is a small city, and I believe anyone responding to complaints should then have Police training and even that level of power in a gated commuinty or not. And back up, and support from the Residents Group.
    Depending on where the guy is, they probably don't even have citizen's arrest powers, let alone police powers. It honestly sounds like Florida.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    500 rooms in the hotel x 4 drunk Spring Breakers per room with only 2 unarmed Security Officers on duty Sometimes only 1 Officer.

    Leave a comment:

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