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Taser Use? Yes or No

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by locknid
    true but how many times has pepper spray accidentlly caused death or how many times have people been sued over a baton use(unless going for a lethal shot when not justified), or sued for any of the reasons you said. I am sure a few, but every one knows because of the news that you can try to sue if tasered. I am not saying they will win, basically all lose, but it still costs money to fight. One taser suit would most likely wipe out our entire company's insurance policy, even if we won. Also if tasers were to be used by a company I would make the person get loads of training on both the taser and use of force laws because I know from my own company that there are many which could be trusted with a taser but a hell of a lot which i don't even trust with a flashlight. I have seen another company which allows their guards to carry tasers with no extra training, if they can afford one, they can use one. Not a good idea.
    Pepper Spray: About 10 times, or more. Amnesty International will be happy to tell us all why pepper spray is just as evil a tasers are.

    Baton: Broken bones, etc...

    Amount of Suing: Quite a lot, actually. Ask any police department. People sue for anything.

    If your employees don't have use of force training to begin with, something is wrong. And every taser comes with free training from a Certified Taser Instructor. There is no such thing as an "untrained" taser user, the training is free and comes with the unit.

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  • locknid
    replied
    true but how many times has pepper spray accidentlly caused death or how many times have people been sued over a baton use(unless going for a lethal shot when not justified), or sued for any of the reasons you said. I am sure a few, but every one knows because of the news that you can try to sue if tasered. I am not saying they will win, basically all lose, but it still costs money to fight. One taser suit would most likely wipe out our entire company's insurance policy, even if we won. Also if tasers were to be used by a company I would make the person get loads of training on both the taser and use of force laws because I know from my own company that there are many which could be trusted with a taser but a hell of a lot which i don't even trust with a flashlight. I have seen another company which allows their guards to carry tasers with no extra training, if they can afford one, they can use one. Not a good idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by locknid
    my company does not allow us to carry tasers simply because of the fact that people love to sue when they get tased, or in the event of an accidental death because of one then it would be even a bigger case. The police dept and taser has basically unlimited money to fight cases whereas my company does not have the resources to fight lawsuit after lawsuit. Its funny how I can carry a leathal weapon no probs but a non-lethal weapon is totally off limits. If your company allows you to then go for it, but first see what kind of insurance policy and legal support they give you just incase of an incident.
    One very important thing to remember about the Taser from a "I'll be sued!" aspect: You can be sued for touching someone, for spraying them with pepper spray, for drawing a baton, for hitting them with a baton, for pointing a gun at them, for shooting at them and missing, for shooting at them and hitting them, for intimidating them, for staring at them, for not opening the door for them, for not giving them your lunch...

    We can sue anyone in America over anything. Will the case go forward? Maybe. Maybe not. Police departments don't have unlimited money to fight these cases. They have municipal insurance policies who pay off, and then raise their rates just like your own employer does.

    And that money to pay it comes from our taxes.

    Leave a comment:


  • locknid
    replied
    my company does not allow us to carry tasers simply because of the fact that people love to sue when they get tased, or in the event of an accidental death because of one then it would be even a bigger case. The police dept and taser has basically unlimited money to fight cases whereas my company does not have the resources to fight lawsuit after lawsuit. Its funny how I can carry a leathal weapon no probs but a non-lethal weapon is totally off limits. If your company allows you to then go for it, but first see what kind of insurance policy and legal support they give you just incase of an incident.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer
    Citizens can carry Tasers in 46 states w/o a license, according to the Taser website.
    I live in one of the states where tasers are "Law Enforcement/Military Only." Taser has, according to them, no plans to change this with the current administration (Doyle.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer
    Citizens can carry Tasers in 46 states w/o a license, according to the Taser website.
    CT is one that prohibits tasers. NY is probably another one.

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Citizens can carry Tasers in 46 states w/o a license, according to the Taser website.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Generally, laws like this would require to give all citizen's the authority to carry, unless previous law gives "security agents" the authority to carry another weapon, such as a baton.

    Very few states give certain private citizens the ability to carry things other than a firearm when the majority of private citizens cannot. This is due to the "no more or no less powers" mantra that states have developed in licensing and law.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    The first step is to ask your ... whatever it is that represents you in your proviencial area... why citizen's can't have them.
    Actually it's a Federal law that prevents us from having them. I have in the past spoken to my member of parliament but there are not enough of us asking to make any difference. I'd say that not only are there a lot of Warm Body Security Companies around but there are a lot of Warm Body Security Guards who are happy observing, reporting & running away

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    The first step is to ask your ... whatever it is that represents you in your proviencial area... why citizen's can't have them.

    Keeping in mind that weapons are strictly controlled in all former UK holdings, except Amercia... I'm not sure how this would work. Especially since most states authorize security to have tasers because citizens may. (i.e. they don't actually authorize it, they just say, "well, citizens can...")

    Michigan is currently trying to pass a bill that allows Act 330 Security Police Officers to have tasers. The AP, of course, called them security guards and only at the very end of the 3 page article noted that they were "arrest powers security guards," or properly known as Act 330 Security Police. The AP's slant on the story was that it was dangerous to have security guards (which Act 330s aren't) to have them.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Here is why I like tasers.

    You have security guards, security officers, call them what you will. They are assigned to residential areas, or factory areas, or whatever. They are, 9 times out of 10, alone. This means that they must manage a violent encounter, call 911 and deal with the dispatcher who has 9 million questions before she will even send the police, and keep control of the violent offender while waiting for the police.

    This violent encounter could be offender vs. third-party victim, or it could be offender vs. guard. In either case, the guard has to take action to protect someone, either himself or someone else. And he is alone in this.

    It can take the police up to 1 hour to respond to a criminal complaint. (Seriously.) You now have 1 hour alone with chuckles who is angry as hell that you stopped him from hurting someone (you, someone else), and wants to kick your ass again.

    Most guard companies aren't going to issue anything except a uniform. Some may issue a flashlight. If they don't allow anything else, but allow a taser, the guard can tase the offender, prone him out, then use follow up taser cycles if he attempts to move or do anything stupid.

    No handcuffs, no liability about "arresting," just the guy goes down.

    This, of course, is not a realistic scenerio, but it does illustrate how a taser can be used effectively when alone.
    Can you help me get the law changed in Canada so I can get one? My duties are exactly what you have written & most of the time I work alone but up here in the Great White North (still no snow this year however) I am NOT allowed a Taser, Pepper Spray etc

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Here is why I like tasers.

    You have security guards, security officers, call them what you will. They are assigned to residential areas, or factory areas, or whatever. They are, 9 times out of 10, alone. This means that they must manage a violent encounter, call 911 and deal with the dispatcher who has 9 million questions before she will even send the police, and keep control of the violent offender while waiting for the police.

    This violent encounter could be offender vs. third-party victim, or it could be offender vs. guard. In either case, the guard has to take action to protect someone, either himself or someone else. And he is alone in this.

    It can take the police up to 1 hour to respond to a criminal complaint. (Seriously.) You now have 1 hour alone with chuckles who is angry as hell that you stopped him from hurting someone (you, someone else), and wants to kick your ass again.

    Most guard companies aren't going to issue anything except a uniform. Some may issue a flashlight. If they don't allow anything else, but allow a taser, the guard can tase the offender, prone him out, then use follow up taser cycles if he attempts to move or do anything stupid.

    No handcuffs, no liability about "arresting," just the guy goes down.

    This, of course, is not a realistic scenerio, but it does illustrate how a taser can be used effectively when alone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Tasers are impressive!!!

    I watched a COPS episode where a HUGE muscle bound guy who was "mad at the world" wanted to kick butt with two smaller cops, one on each arm. The cops knew they were in trouble and tried to convince the guy not to resist. Backup arrived with a taser just in time for the fight. One shot and the guy was down on his back with an instant personality change: "Don't do that again...I'll do anything you ask me too....yes sir; no sir."

    After he recovered, he admitted that being tased hurt more than when he was stabbed or shot. He was now a gentle giant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Oh, I found something really interesting from Paul over at SPE. VERY few police officers have lost their jobs due to domestic violence convictions. Most had their records expunged before the law passed, and others... The agencies just didn't check.
    The good-ole-boy network strikes again.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    I'm a little late in getting back to your post here, but better late than never. You took my comment about a higher standard out of context. A private citizen doesn't necessarily lose their job when convicted of a domestic violence offense. As I stated, a LEO or armed SO will. So, in that sense it IS a higher standard.
    Oh, I found something really interesting from Paul over at SPE. VERY few police officers have lost their jobs due to domestic violence convictions. Most had their records expunged before the law passed, and others... The agencies just didn't check.

    Leave a comment:

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