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  • Taser Use? Yes or No

    We are migrating to the use of Tasers here at the hospital. Strictly from a liability issue, it looks like it makes good sense to carry a non-leathal deterent rather than a leathal one. Has anyone had any experience in dealing with tasers in a hospital/healthcare setting?

  • #2
    If you have firearms already, don't get rid of them just because your adding tasers. The taser is a one shot weapon. Once fired, you must disconnect the cartridge and reload, or move to contact stun.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FRHG Security
      We are migrating to the use of Tasers here at the hospital. Strictly from a liability issue, it looks like it makes good sense to carry a non-leathal deterent rather than a leathal one. Has anyone had any experience in dealing with tasers in a hospital/healthcare setting?
      We've been carrying Tasers in our hospital for about 3 years. It's a very good tool when used appropriately within a well-defined use of force standard.

      It is important that the officers don't become dependent on the Taser over the lower use of force techniques (such as verbal de-escalation). You may find that some officers will readily display (drawing but not firing) the Taser to calm the threatening patient when it isn't really correct to do so.

      Proper use of force training, a well written use of force policy, especially in actions for post Taser display/deployment is critical. The reason being is that the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services of the U.S. Department of Human Services (they control all payments of Medicare & Medicaid for the government) absolutely DO NOT like force used against patients (to include restraining them). If your hospital has one complaint turned in against them to CMS I can guarantee you that CMS will order the hospital to drop them or face losing the Medicare & Medicaid funding. Guess how the administration will react.

      Otherwise, the Taser has been a tool that has decreased injuries to both officers and patients alike.
      "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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      • #4
        I think tasers are good yes. But they arent 100 % effective. You see stories where the taser was used the subjected grabbed and pulled the line out of them and grawled at that officer or officers. Nothing is 100 % effective all the time. But I think no one should get "too use" to the taser. Because they may be to o quick to use that all the time and end up on the worst end of the incident.

        In Cincinnati right after a heavy black male died they asked for cincinnati to issue tasers. So what does cincinnati do ? They buy, train & issue them. The same group turns around and says ok now we dont want them to carry tasers. After the city spent all the money on them. They dont want officers carrying them because they are using them. And as for that incident in which that man died he had 3 different kinds of drugs in his syetm, he started the fight its all on cruiser cam, he even tried to grab the officers gun that was caught on security cam from the White Casstle in the parking lot. Then groups said maybe the officers made him go off etc. From cruiser came it shows the officer responding to the call pulling in the lot then he is out of cruiser what does he say to the man ? sir whats wrong. And its hard to hear from what the suspect says but i could have sworn he said white boy wrong town or something like that, its really hard to hear.

        Then they said the reason he died was because of the exapndable PR24 batons. I even think when the officers gave "pain complience strikes they used the handles of the baton i think. And 24 times the subject is told to stop fighting put your hands behind your back. 24 times he didnt listen, he paid for it in the end sadly for him and the family. The reason he died was because he was for one pretty over weight we all probably agree that a operson over weight heart has to work more probably. Ok so his heart rate was probably already up a lil not to mention he had known heart medical problems. Then each other three drugs he had in his syetm all raise your heart rate. Then you add your fighting which we all know raises your heart rate. Those factors are what killed him AKA DOPE. Not the officers.

        Stay Safe All

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        • #5
          Yes, IF the site absolutely needs it, such as a hospital. Pepper spray can cause contamination problems in a medical facility. IMO, anytime a security officer uses a taser, an investigation should be made to see if it was necessary.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #6
            Our comp does investigate things i would think its the safe way. However the investigation should be fair. If you ever hear of LEO's ask them what they call IA Investigators LOL. To show you some load of junk stuff in Cincinnati I hear IA Unit is bosssed around alot by the City Council/Mayor etc. When that incident happend they show up asking all kinds of questions right away after a man just died in police custody the same man who tried to grab an officers gun. Many of the questions were out of line. They started reading the officers rights to them etc. I think the reason they started asking out of line questions a FOP Union REP wasnt out with the officers. IA is scared to death of the FOP REP's because if something is being asked in the wrong way, against the officers rights the Union REP will jump on the person asking the questions.

            And then you look at us probably safe to say not alot of us have a group like FOP. But if I did i wouldnt asnwer any of the IA Investigators questions intill i was with my REP. Officers have rights to but you wouldnt know it by the way things are handled. I think in many cases citizens have more rights then them. My dad was am deputy 11 yrs, a dispatcher at one time, a Air Force MP, security officer and is now again a S/O. My mother told me when i said im going to be a police explorer and ever since then and after she said when you do that you sign away some of your rights. However a Union like FOP helpes the officers and try to give rights back the best they can.

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            • #7
              When you work for a security company, you don't get "rights," other than those established civil rights that we all get.

              You work at the leisure of the company, in most states (at-will employment), which means you can quit at any time and not recieve "bad things."

              I look at the taser situation the same way I look at every other weapon or device: You are a civilian. You have the same right to carry a taser that a soccer mom does. She may carry it openly or concealed. If your state allows it, you may too. Some states are working on banning security personnel from carrying them. Yet they will allow other private citizens to do so.

              This is understandable only when the security officer is granted state-drived powers which are extra-ordinary in nature, this barring of certain activities. However, when they hold "no more or no less rights than a private citizen," then it creates a second-class citizenship.

              This already occurs in Florida. A security guard who bit his wife on the hand was stripped of his licenses. It did not matter that he was not employed as a security person. It did not matter he was not on duty. He was stripped of all his licenses for "offering force other than in defense of self or other," and barred from ever having them.

              It has been suggested that a criminal element is not required for license revocation, either, like in this case. You simply have to violate the law that says if you use force to protect property, on or off duty, you will lose your licenses forever. Why, you ask? Because the security law in Florida makes no distinction between "on duty" and "off duty," only "licensee."
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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              • #8
                LE and security in CT is subject to losing their right to possess a firearm if they are convicted of a domestic violation. That means they lose their job as well. The public expects us to hold to a higher standard than the average citizen. If we make a mistake, the consequences are usually severe in light of this. It's just the way it is.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #9
                  in OH if your are convicted of DV you cant be a LEO, or armed S/O etc. Well i do belive we have to be held to higher standards and we are. I know people that get a job with out taking a drug testsed i didnt. And we are subject to random tests by a computer system to. I had to pass background checks and stuff. Since being a exp and everything else since then i have been through background checks many times. probably 2 or 3 times last yr alone lol.

                  If you are going to allow any citizen to carry OC and we are not that is a violation in my mind of rights. And they put us in harms way more than we should be. As for taser same thing. What needs to hapen if when stuff happens to S/O's start puttin suits on companies and stuff. The way i feel no one has the right to restrict your safety no one. Not one in government example senator etc. The company can say you cant carry OC but when that person is at the office and im out with a subject at 2am 3 am etc.

                  Stay Safe All

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by S/O245
                    in OH if your are convicted of DV you cant be a LEO, or armed S/O etc. Well i do belive we have to be held to higher standards and we are. I know people that get a job with out taking a drug testsed i didnt. And we are subject to random tests by a computer system to. I had to pass background checks and stuff. Since being a exp and everything else since then i have been through background checks many times. probably 2 or 3 times last yr alone lol.
                    If you are going to allow any citizen to carry OC and we are not that is a violation in my mind of rights. And they put us in harms way more than we should be. As for taser same thing. What needs to hapen if when stuff happens to S/O's start puttin suits on companies and stuff. The way i feel no one has the right to restrict your safety no one. Not one in government example senator etc. The company can say you cant carry OC but when that person is at the office and im out with a subject at 2am 3 am etc.

                    Stay Safe All
                    Is that typical? If so, why?
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                    • #11
                      well i joined the CAP its the US Air Force Aux i had to go through a background check for that FBI check etc. Things like that they do backgrounc checks for. www.cap.gov

                      Stay Safe

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                      • #12
                        Are you a pilot?
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr. Security
                          LE and security in CT is subject to losing their right to possess a firearm if they are convicted of a domestic violation. That means they lose their job as well. The public expects us to hold to a higher standard than the average citizen. If we make a mistake, the consequences are usually severe in light of this. It's just the way it is.
                          Actually, that isn't a higher standard. NO citizen of the United States may posesss ammunition or a firearm, nor have access to them, under the Clinton-Era Federal Domestic Violence Act. This is why a LEO loses his job, as well as an armed security officer gets to be unarmed, the states have no say in the matter.

                          When this came about, many LEOs protested because they were hired on with a misdemeanor violation for DV, and boom, you have to find a desk job for the guy or terminate him.

                          Again, you have no more or nor less rights than a private citizen as a security officer/guard/person unless the state grants you extra-ordinary powers. Those states that deny you the basic priveliages of every other citizen (self-defense, carrying of weapons openly when citizens may do so, self-incrimination, etc...) are creating second class citizens based on profession.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mr. Security
                            Are you a pilot?
                            I was in the USAFA CAP for a while, I was never a pilot, but I did get to take the controls on a small plane on a couple occassions. This has completey re-affirmed the fact I NEVER want to be a pilot
                            "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                            "The Curve" 1998

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by S/O245
                              I think tasers are good yes. But they arent 100 % effective. You see stories where the taser was used the subjected grabbed and pulled the line out of them and grawled at that officer or officers. Nothing is 100 % effective all the time. But I think no one should get "too use" to the taser. Because they may be to o quick to use that all the time and end up on the worst end of the incident.

                              Stay Safe All

                              As far as being effective I have deployed mine 23 times now. Everytime including a run in with a 325lb Gang banger it worked FLAWLESSLY!!! Make sure your batteries are fresh and that your cartridge is attached securely. The times I saw them not work were from operator error. But what I have seen is Police Officers AS WELL AS Security Officers begin to rely on them. Its a good weapon to add to your belt and I think it works great.

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