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Long Guard Shifts - Fatigue and Psychological Factors

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  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by NUCGUY
    Fatigue and psyc factors are dirrectly linked to your ability to perform. Some agencies realize this and place limits on the amount of hours worked per day. A prime example of this is the nuclear industry. The NRC mandates that you can work a max of 16 hours in any 24 hour period, 24 hours in any 48 hour period and 72 hours in any rolling 7 day period. In addition to this you are required to have ten hours off inbetween shifts worked. This was an intellegent approach by a federal agency that does not have their head up their fourth point of contact.
    Of course there are times where operational abilities require this to be pushed aside but each time that this occurs the NRC must be notified and they do investigate why this occured. There are also times (military for example) when this type of thinking is not used. The question was also asked how public safety gets away with 24 hour shifts and that is a hole that has been in the law for a long time.
    NUCGUY:
    Your point is well taken. The military has an exercise called "the crucible" wherein they push trainee for 50+hours with minimum of rest, food and drink. My experience is the USAF and during an Operational Readiness Inspection (ORI), you are pushed simulating wartime conditions. You would be surprised just what you are capable of doing in such a situation.
    NRC and DOE have what they call Technical Proficiency Inspection (TPI) and it is no cakewalk.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • RJ Martin
    replied
    How about this one:
    3-swing shifts (12 hrs), 3-grave shifts (12 hr shifts), then 3 days off.

    I don't think many of you would like that one - yet the experienced military folks will easily recognize it as - well common. I hated the 6 in a row - but the 3 days off was heaven!

    Leave a comment:


  • SecTrainer
    replied
    My favorite schedule ever, bar none, was 4 days x 12 and 3 days off. We got 8 hours OT every week, reliably. Twelves were practically like 8 as far as I could tell, and I really loved having 3 days off because you could do something fun with it (like get your line wet or bag a deer). When we went back to a "normal" 5 x 8 + 8 OT schedule, it was the same amount of hours every week so you still got your OT, but we all hated it because now we only had one day off! What a difference a schedule can make.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-11-2006, 08:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonfyre024
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Same here. Working a 24-hour shift is illegal in CT. I offered once when the company was short-handed and I was advised about the law. Actually, I prefer 16-hour shifts as opposed to 8 on, 8 off, and then 8 back on.

    I also work in the state of Connecticut and advised of this law. The company I just finished working for, would not allow us to work more than 16 hr shifts, we had to have 8 hours off inbetween and no more than 64 hrs in a week.

    The company I currently work for is that we are not allowed to work more than 12 hours in a shift continuously and no more than 60 hours in a week. Believe it or not, many officers are opposed to this because it puts strict limits on the overtime they can earn which is well known that to make money in security, working overtime is the way to do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • NUCGUY
    replied
    Fatigue and psyc factors are dirrectly linked to your ability to perform. Some agencies realize this and place limits on the amount of hours worked per day. A prime example of this is the nuclear industry. The NRC mandates that you can work a max of 16 hours in any 24 hour period, 24 hours in any 48 hour period and 72 hours in any rolling 7 day period. In addition to this you are required to have ten hours off inbetween shifts worked. This was an intellegent approach by a federal agency that does not have their head up their fourth point of contact.
    Of course there are times where operational abilities require this to be pushed aside but each time that this occurs the NRC must be notified and they do investigate why this occured. There are also times (military for example) when this type of thinking is not used. The question was also asked how public safety gets away with 24 hour shifts and that is a hole that has been in the law for a long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Guard Shifts

    So many times I am "bored out of my gourd" when I'm working a double. It can be tough to find a happy medium. Working 911/police dispatch meant rushing the entire shift to keep up with the volume of calls and working security means hours and hours of boredom, interspersed with a few minutes of terror. What to do.....?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    David D's Unanswered Question

    The rotational tours of duty have been advocated by several major studies as to when "conditioned response" occurs.
    Long before these studies were undertaken, the British Armed Forces instituted the rotational sequences. When stationed in England in the late 1950s, this rotational system was already in place. As I found out, a member of the Ministry for Military Affairs was a psychologist of some renown and that requirement was written into the "Manual of Instruction."
    Our military and industry leaders will not adopt this idea until it is forced upon them as it did in England. Instructions may be given, but then there are the ubiquitous staff studies and that is where it will die.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Andy Taylor
    Here in California it would expensive. Anything over 8 hours is time & 1/2, over 12 hours is doubletime. Where I work under emergency circumstances we are allowed to work up to 12 hours, but never more. we have never had a situation where a relief couldn't be found by the end of 12 hours.
    I have someone on vacation this week. The replacement FORGOT he was scheduled last night so here I am just about to go to bed after a 16 hour shift. Boy am I tired

    Leave a comment:


  • Andy Taylor
    replied
    Here in California it would expensive. Anything over 8 hours is time & 1/2, over 12 hours is doubletime. Where I work under emergency circumstances we are allowed to work up to 12 hours, but never more. we have never had a situation where a relief couldn't be found by the end of 12 hours.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric
    replied
    Just read an article on fatigue.
    Many events have happened because of fatigue and human error, being awake for even 21 hours could equally impair as much as a reading of .08 would. Of course, exceptions are everywhere.

    Major events like:
    Chernobyl - april 25 1986, happened at 0123hrs
    Three mile island - march 28 1979, 0400hrs
    Exxon Valdez - march 24 1989, 0015hrs (more error than fatigue...)
    Gulf War 1991 - more friendly fire deaths than from enemy, half from fatigue

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackhole
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    They're allowed to sleep on the job! Montreal firemen work 10 hour day shifts & 14 hour nights with one 24 Sunday per month. After a certain time the night shift guys are allowed to sleep.
    In theory, we could sleep also but our company was so busy and understaffed that this was next to impossibe. On a 34-hour shift I typically got about 4 hours of sleep (15-30 minutes at a time).

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackhole
    How do Fire Departments and ambulance services get around that law? 34- and 48-hour ambulance shifts are very common in EMS. I worked a 72-hour shift once.
    The other members answered your question. However, I wanted to comment on the part where you worked a 72-hour shift. There have been a couple of occasions where my relief didn't show on time after I worked a double. My policy is that if I am required by circumstances to work a triple, I will get some sleep, even if it is just an hour. Some may criticize this decision, but I am not able to respond effectively to situations or emergencies once significant fatigue has set in. Since it is illegal for an employer to require that I work a triple, I have no qualms about doing what I need to do in order to perform satisfactory, even if I must rest on duty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric
    replied
    Ottawa Fire seem to have that sched. as well.
    I like the 2X12 on then 2 off and every weekend either 3 on or 3off. Taking 2 vacation days can give you 7 off in a row.
    I also like the idea of less commuting to work (7X12's in 14, instead of 10X8's out of 14)

    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    They're allowed to sleep on the job! Montreal firemen work 10 hour day shifts & 14 hour nights with one 24 Sunday per month. After a certain time the night shift guys are allowed to sleep.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackhole
    How do Fire Departments and ambulance services get around that law? 34- and 48-hour ambulance shifts are very common in EMS. I worked a 72-hour shift once.
    They're allowed to sleep on the job! Montreal firemen work 10 hour day shifts & 14 hour nights with one 24 Sunday per month. After a certain time the night shift guys are allowed to sleep.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackhole
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Same here. Working a 24-hour shift is illegal in CT.
    How do Fire Departments and ambulance services get around that law? 34- and 48-hour ambulance shifts are very common in EMS. I worked a 72-hour shift once.

    Leave a comment:

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