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Why wear ID badges /Photo Id's?

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  • #16
    We don't have any problems with the passes used at my site. The only way in is to swipe your ID at one of the entrances and if you are driving both a personal ID and a vehicle one is needed to open a gate. Management isn't a problem because it's alot faster to swipe your ID than it is to contact Security and wait for us to verify your identification and then let you in.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Lord of the Keys
      We don't have any problems with the passes used at my site. The only way in is to swipe your ID at one of the entrances and if you are driving both a personal ID and a vehicle one is needed to open a gate. Management isn't a problem because it's alot faster to swipe your ID than it is to contact Security and wait for us to verify your identification and then let you in.
      Right, but once their in, do they have to display those IDs? Your describing access credentials, something that gets you in. If they don't display them for others to see, then they don't help determine that the person is authorized to be in the area/facility.

      A "trick" of penetration testers (people who's job it is to break into places and steal data) is to swipe a random card at the outer door. It lets them in because it was improperly configured. Once their in, with no visible ID requirement who's to say they're not authorized?
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        Right, but once their in, do they have to display those IDs? Your describing access credentials, something that gets you in. If they don't display them for others to see, then they don't help determine that the person is authorized to be in the area/facility.

        A "trick" of penetration testers (people who's job it is to break into places and steal data) is to swipe a random card at the outer door. It lets them in because it was improperly configured. Once their in, with no visible ID requirement who's to say they're not authorized?
        Agreed! Just as burgulars will carry several garage door openers someone out to do no good can carry several swipe cards as one may work. Without ID displaying they can then go into any sector and who is to know the differance.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ACP01
          Agreed! Just as burgulars will carry several garage door openers someone out to do no good can carry several swipe cards as one may work. Without ID displaying they can then go into any sector and who is to know the differance.
          Exactly. Even if an employee is suspicious, they still may not say anything out of shyness, wanting to avoid confrontation, or concern about being embarrassed if the person is actually authorized to be there. Even security personnel may hold back from asking just in case he/she is a "big shot."
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mr. Security
            Exactly. Even if an employee is suspicious, they still may not say anything out of shyness, wanting to avoid confrontation, or concern about being embarrassed if the person is actually authorized to be there. Even security personnel may hold back from asking just in case he/she is a "big shot."
            One way of testing if anyone is even paying attention to ID is to wear an issued ID with an outrageous (and obviously false) name and title.

            <Your photo here>
            Mickey Mouse
            Senior Cheese Eater

            Many times people will look at an ID, but they won't "see" it.
            "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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            • #21
              Originally posted by aka Bull
              One way of testing if anyone is even paying attention to ID is to wear an issued ID with an outrageous (and obviously false) name and title.

              <Your photo here>
              Mickey Mouse
              Senior Cheese Eater

              Many times people will look at an ID, but they won't "see" it.
              Didn't something similar happen at the DHS? The first line was valid and the rest was baloney. Security let them through.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by aka Bull
                One way of testing if anyone is even paying attention to ID is to wear an issued ID with an outrageous (and obviously false) name and title.

                <Your photo here>
                Mickey Mouse
                Senior Cheese Eater

                Many times people will look at an ID, but they won't "see" it.
                aka Bull:
                That is one of the best ways we got into many a restricted area. I had a photograph of our secretary, blonde with green eyes. It worked. At another installation, a hairy gorilla, the list go on and on.
                The military court did not convict any of them when evidence was presented they had "conditioned response" to any picture presented especially if they were on a post for more than four hours especially when it was hot and dry. The behavior laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB, OH had conclusively demonstrated those factors came into play. The same can be said of those folks watching alarm monitors, or for that matter, CCTV monitors at x-ray units. Over again and over again the same scene or the same set of circumstances repeated and repeated. Those already convicted had, depending upon the circumstances, their convictions overturned.
                The National Fire and Burglar Alarm Association ran a series of exhaustive studies along with one conducted at DOD's Human Engineering Laboratories at Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD. Results were identical to earlier studies.
                I have for many years strongly recommended that sentries be rotated ever 20 to 30 minutes to another duty or dissimilar post.
                Enjoy the day,
                Bill

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bill Warnock
                  aka Bull:
                  That is one of the best ways we got into many a restricted area. I had a photograph of our secretary, blonde with green eyes. It worked. At another installation, a hairy gorilla, the list go on and on.
                  The military court did not convict any of them when evidence was presented they had "conditioned response" to any picture presented especially if they were on a post for more than four hours especially when it was hot and dry. The behavior laboratory at Wright Patterson AFB, OH had conclusively demonstrated those factors came into play. The same can be said of those folks watching alarm monitors, or for that matter, CCTV monitors at x-ray units. Over again and over again the same scene or the same set of circumstances repeated and repeated. Those already convicted had, depending upon the circumstances, their convictions overturned.
                  The National Fire and Burglar Alarm Association ran a series of exhaustive studies along with one conducted at DOD's Human Engineering Laboratories at Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD. Results were identical to earlier studies.
                  I have for many years strongly recommended that sentries be rotated ever 20 to 30 minutes to another duty or dissimilar post.
                  Enjoy the day,
                  Bill
                  Bill, I understand what you're saying. Having spent long hours on post I could hold an ID in my hand and look at it and realize something was wrong with it but I was so tired I couldn't figure out what. Had the person been a real bad guy he'd of "owned" me.

                  The mind isn't always hard to fool.
                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                  • #24
                    ID policies

                    I coordinate security for a very large transit agency with many critical sites/rail yards. While there have not been many very serious security incidents targetting our transit system, there have been threats. Having said that, this organization is not accustomed to spending a lot of money on crime prevention in our rail yards, hence it's an uphill battle initiating new security measures. We also have a very strong union with political strategies that sometimes dictate what measures will be implemented and those that won't.

                    I have implemented the ID program at head office and 1 main property. I recently presented to senior mgmt. to get their support for rolling out the wearing of photo IDs while on all non-public transit properties (bus & rail divisions). They stated that they don't believe the ID program is necessary, as they know who should be on the property and who shouldn't (property in question has about 1500 employees).

                    I have documented my recommendations (to cover myself) to roll out the ID program and now unfortunately I have to sit back and wait for an incident, that probably could have been prevented.

                    Any ideas?

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                    • #25
                      If nothing else you can have your security people start wearing theirs.

                      This might have an effect on other departments or may not but at least for YOUR department it will be easy for others to spot a pretender.

                      Something you could try is next time your department hires someone is have the new person wonder around (ID hidden) and see just where all he can get in and possible leave stick-em notes at key locations with a number to call. (Please call XXX-XXXX or ext XXX), (one attached to the back of a chair of a company exec will get their attention.) When the number is called tell them it is a security department eval of unauthorized entries or something.

                      Hope things work out for you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        ID Policies

                        Thanks for the feedback. We insist that mgmt. wear their ID and that's pretty easy as they're staff; it's unionized employees who don't comply with the program. My security staff are uniformed so they're not an issue. I think I'm going to have to wait for an incident, as (non-security minded) site mgmt. seem to believe that they know everyone who should be on property. Your intrusion exercise has been tried and was very successful in penetrating the "secure" buildings. Selling security is not easy when there are no startling incidents to scare up funding.

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                        • #27
                          When I worked at a major call center, employees were required to wear their badges at all times above the waist area. They swiped them to come in (when swiped thier picture came up at the monitor at the security desk so you can match people up) and then were required to show them to the officer on desk duty.

                          When I moved to another branch of that company as lead officer (an old walmart converted to a call center, a unique experience) I started a small program where if an employee did something to help with security and it was reported they'd get something as a reward. Mainly the big thing was a free soda or something for asking someone where their badge is.

                          About a month or so before I transfered off that contract, I recieved a call from the HR department to come by thier offices. When I arrived an employee was standing with the one of the Senior VPs who had left his badge on his desk! Playing the part he did not tell her who he was until I arrived. When we told her, she was scared for her job! (Sad I think) The VP was so impressed with her doing it, he bought her entire dept pizza that next friday.

                          Basically I'm saying get you employees involved, true I was buying most of the sodas on my own dime, but it helped me do my job.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by burley
                            Thanks for the feedback. We insist that mgmt. wear their ID and that's pretty easy as they're staff; it's unionized employees who don't comply with the program. My security staff are uniformed so they're not an issue. I think I'm going to have to wait for an incident, as (non-security minded) site mgmt. seem to believe that they know everyone who should be on property. Your intrusion exercise has been tried and was very successful in penetrating the "secure" buildings. Selling security is not easy when there are no startling incidents to scare up funding.
                            Even though your security personnel are uniformed you should have them wearing their ID in plain sight, if for no other reason than they're setting the example to the unionized employees.

                            Also, if it comes to the point where management is having the wearing of ID's enforced then it removes any argument by the unionized employees have by being able to say "they're not wearing theirs."

                            We are in uniforms at our department and our ID's are visible according to policy - there is no exemption for us just because we're in uniform.

                            Plus - uniforms can be faked too if someone really wants to bad enough.
                            "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                            • #29
                              Talk with MR or MRS CEO, once they buy in and wear it, you will get some followers. There will always be a small percentage of staff that give you the most problems.

                              A coworker a couple of years ago was "discussing" with a "client" why he could not be allowed in the building without an ID. The CEO walked in, stopped, pulled out his card, said good morning and continued on his way. Without a word, he went back to his car to get the badge.
                              Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
                              Groucho Marx

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                              • #30
                                Where I work it does not seem to be a big issue, ID's are also access badges. But in rare cases an incident report is written and sent to the employee’s department manager.

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