View Poll Results: What is your establishments outlook on Fake ID's?

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  • They are VERY strict and we are spot checked regularly by LE...

    5 55.56%
  • Management could careless and nether does local LE...

    2 22.22%
  • We check the ID's to just follow the law, but a lot probably slip by...

    2 22.22%
  1. #1
    MiB Security's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    Brunswick, Maine
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    Lightbulb Fake ID Training (False, Fake, Altered ID's)

    I am new here as I have stated couple times already, but I have already seen we have our share of "Doormen" NOT (Bouncers) on the site and that is close to my heart since that's how I started out back in the day! This thread could turn into a novel as did the last one I wrote on another site. A friend of mine "Bart-Man" and I felt that a thread like this could be a great source of accumulated info for anyone working a door at a club or bar.

    We can also touch on the liability for allowing minors to drink while you are on duty. I am sure everyone can share little from these home state. I have been lucky enough to work large college towns where you will see EVERY state in a matter of months pass before your eyes.

    What I would like to do is have additional posts by ONE STATE per post. In my option and experience this will be a lot easier to look at and read when your looking for info. Maybe include the state in your secondary subject line for your reply. I could be really anal and do it alphabetically, but I know that will never happen... So lets keep it neat and to the point.

    I have always classified the three most common "Fake Id's" as the following...

    "Class 1"= Not them (false identity)
    "Class 2"= Fake (completely manufactured as a counterfeit ID)
    "Class 3"= Altered (a real DL or ID that has been physically changed to represent false information, description, etc.)

    I will probably copy and paste some of my prior threads from another site to save me some typing.
    Last edited by MiB Security; 04-26-2007 at 06:54 PM.
    M E N in B L A C K
    Personal Security Svcs.

  2. #2
    HotelSecurity's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
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    Montreal borough of Verdun, Quebec, Canada
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    The bar inside my hotel is owned by an independant operator so we do not check ids.

    Montreal attracts a lot of 16 & 17 year olds because our drinking age is 18. We have a lot of ids in our lost & found that apparently were borrowed by the 16 & 17 year olds.

  3. #3
    MiB Security's Avatar
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    Originally posted by friend "Bart-Man" from other forum
    As mentioned, there are ultimately 3 forms of false ID's:

    1. Not them (false identity)
    2. Fake (completely manufactured as a counterfeit ID)
    3. Altered (a real DL or ID that has been physically changed to represent false information such as D.O.B., description, ect)

    I would definitely argue that one would see these false IDs coming at them in this very order, with a large degree of them being what we call, "not them". Thus, being able to identify someone's facial features, height and weight should be paramount. Yes, everyone thinks that's the easy part, but when you know how to spot a fake and a good altered, you are left with the only the this criteria. And I must say that since the ID is actually legit itself, if you can't tell a legit chin or hairline, ears, nose, birthmark, jaw line, eyes or smile, your screwed. This is exactly where I see some of the best technically trained door host lose their edge.

    Fake seems to be so easy to get after all this time. But by no means do I think I am infallible. I mean, how would I, or anyone else for that matter, actually KNOW if it's a very good fake if it didn't show the normal signs of a fake. Technology has proven that counterfeiters are definitely getting more savvy. This is the main reason why I thought such a broad thread, open to people from all over, would be so great. I 'm sure we are all pros, to some extent, in our own region.

    Altered: I have been AMAZED at how well some people have cut and pasted, re-typed, covered, maneuvered, and programmed information on actual real ID's. The pathetic ones are truly laughable. Yet the good ones are VERY hard to notice. Another reason that if a door host is not using a flashlight; he is not worth his weight in monkey-spit! DL from New Mexico, Arizona and British Columbia are by far some of the best altered ID's I have seems and I will discuss more in the thread. But thus far, the British Columbians have been the most impressive...
    M E N in B L A C K
    Personal Security Svcs.

  4. #4

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    Aug 2005
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    Its getting easier, and easier, to reasonably duplicate IDs, including the plastic ones with UV reactive holocote.

    I do love the method of making UV reactive holocote, though. It involves Tide, since Tide has a lot of UV boosters in it.

    When I was looking for a method of strengthening the security of company IDs, I started looking at how people fake IDs. The same inexpensive materials used to fake official IDs can make very good valid IDs on the cheap.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

  5. #5
    SecTrainer's Avatar
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    Nov 2006
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    For those who may be interested, the Public Safety Institute, a division of the Institute of Police Technology and Management, which is run by the University of North Florida, will be holding their 4-day course on the subject of fraudulent & false identification documents from 9/17 to 9/20 in Altamonte Springs, FL.

    Here's a link to the course information: Fraudulent Documents Course Description

    ...and here's a link to the course flyer with registration form (it's a PDF file so you need the free Adobe Acrobat reader).

    As you will see, the course deals with ID ranging from Social Security cards to drivers licenses, military ID, INS documentation, the techniques for creating and/or altering them, and obviously how to spot the fakes.

    NOTE: Contrary to what the course description indicates, this course is NOT restricted to LE personnel only, although some of the material is geared toward enforcement issues.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 04-27-2007 at 04:17 AM.

  6. #6
    BoyInBlue's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
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    California
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    My tools:

    FLASHLIGHT - Dual UV/WHITE
    http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=FL557
    +backup flashlights

    JEWLERS LOOP - For micro print

    DRIVERS LICENCE GUIDE - Anheuser Busch has a decent free one available

    Tips:
    -Talk to people, read their body language: are they nervous??
    -Don't get too caught up in checking to see if its a real ID, spend equally as much time making sure its the same person.
    -Take your time, be through
    -Are they trying to distract you??? Boobs all over you, asking about cover, asking about bottle service...
    -Err on the side of not letting them in
    -ALWAYS GO WITH YOUR GUT FEELING

    Tips on FAKE CA IDs
    -All old versions should be expired by now
    -Check with UV light - 3 colored state flag across ID (red outline, brown bear, green grass)
    -Micro print on top line of "DMV" (reads California DMV)
    -Rounded edges (run your fingerprints over the edges, you shouldn't feel them)
    -No : after expires (expires 04-28-09) not (expires: 04-28-09)
    -numbers on the bottom can be decoded to see what DMV it came from
    -Should be very flexible, very hard to break

  7. #7

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    Chief's Supply, among others, has a very good Driver's License Identification Guide. It is "restricted to law enforcement agencies only," but can be sold to security companies who are licensed through the state.

    (Much like any "law enforcement only product," save for BATF regulated items like grenades and guns. You just ship those to a Firearms License holder with the proper stamps, and fill your Form 4s out.)
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

  8. #8
    Lawson's Avatar
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    On a side note, I have ordered things from Chief's Supply that has "POLICE" blasted all over it, no questions asked other than what my method of payment will be.
    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
    "The Curve" 1998

  9. #9
    Chucky's Avatar
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    The state I live in anyone under 21 will get their licence in a vertical plane with a red back ground and when they turn 21 will get it in horizontal Plane. The 21 year old licence has a chemical that will destroy the licence should air get between the lamination.
    THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
    THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
    http://www.boondocksaints.com/

  10. #10

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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyr619
    [B]
    -Check with UV light - 3 colored state flag across ID (red outline, brown bear, green grass)
    I am looking at my OFFICAL State DL and i cant find te flag on it. It has all the other featrures though.
    Robert
    Here endith the lesson

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