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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    659

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    "or for any felony the officer has reasonable grounds to believe (i.e. probable cause) the person to be arrested has committed."


    Not only didn't he have "PC", they had K-9 CONFIRMATION that the only 'probable' crime(drug smuggling) was NOT GOING ON. (I'm assuming the 'bins' spoken of smaller than human smuggling size, and while drugs can be packaged to avoid smell its a lot harder with live Mexicans).


    Lets use an example to help understand what was going on: Police are on lookout for a stolen 25' long boat on a dual axle trailer. I'm on a bicycle. While I might be 'somehow involved' in the heist, they have no "probable cause" to detain me on the grounds the item in question is in my possession, hence no legal authority to detain me on those grounds.

    Now supposed I'm driving an oversized flatbed with a massive 'tent' bigger than the boat and trailer and the garage were the trailer was parked has only one exit and a CCTV that doesn't show the trailer or any other 'big enough' containers leaving. THEN they would probably have 'PC' to detain me and maybe even search the tent for the trailer boat.





    " Freedom isn't doing what someone tells you to do. Freedom is being able to choose whether to accede to or deny someone else's demands upon you, without fear of reprisal or punishment. Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY aware of the freedoms that we enjoy in this country." I'm glad to see Tac Guy 'gets it' and like I said before I'd be mostly OK with an exception to our various "Freedoms" at the Border or in "Border Patrol"/immigration/ or even 'smuggled from foreign lands' issues because it is a kinda 'special case' involving another nation and people who aren't 'under our jurisdiction' and mostly deals with "hostile foreigners" with various degrees of support and connection to foreign govts who have defacto hostile intent to various degrees, etc. But not only is our entire "Border Situation" a joke and a "hot ghetto mess" due to our Govt, not the Mexicans or other foreigners, and these particular BP agents obviously understand the 'subjects' are as American as can be and are just wasting everyone's time, and should be brought up on Civil Rights violations.
    Last edited by Squid; 09-30-2013 at 03:48 PM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    "or for any felony the officer has reasonable grounds to believe (i.e. probable cause) the person to be arrested has committed."


    Not only didn't he have "PC", they had K-9 CONFIRMATION that the only 'probable' crime(drug smuggling) was NOT GOING ON. (I'm assuming the 'bins' spoken of smaller than human smuggling size, and while drugs can be packaged to avoid smell its a lot harder with live Mexicans).


    Lets use an example to help understand what was going on: Police are on lookout for a stolen 25' long boat on a dual axle trailer. I'm on a bicycle. While I might be 'somehow involved' in the heist, they have no "probable cause" to detain me on the grounds the item in question is in my possession, hence no legal authority to detain me on those grounds.

    Now supposed I'm driving an oversized flatbed with a massive 'tent' bigger than the boat and trailer and the garage were the trailer was parked has only one exit and a CCTV that doesn't show the trailer or any other 'big enough' containers leaving. THEN they would probably have 'PC' to detain me and maybe even search the tent for the trailer boat.





    " Freedom isn't doing what someone tells you to do. Freedom is being able to choose whether to accede to or deny someone else's demands upon you, without fear of reprisal or punishment. Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY aware of the freedoms that we enjoy in this country." I'm glad to see Tac Guy 'gets it' and like I said before I'd be mostly OK with an exception to our various "Freedoms" at the Border or in "Border Patrol"/immigration/ or even 'smuggled from foreign lands' issues because it is a kinda 'special case' involving another nation and people who aren't 'under our jurisdiction' and mostly deals with "hostile foreigners" with various degrees of support and connection to foreign govts who have defacto hostile intent to various degrees, etc. But not only is our entire "Border Situation" a joke and a "hot ghetto mess" due to our Govt, not the Mexicans or other foreigners, and these particular BP agents obviously understand the 'subjects' are as American as can be and are just wasting everyone's time, and should be brought up on Civil Rights violations.
    It has been pointed out to you before, but you failed to take the advice. I will point it out again in case you missed it. You are using the term "probable cause" wrong in most of what you wrote.

    Read up on:
    - Reasonable Suspicion vs Probable Cause
    - Consent vs Detention vs Arrest

    Figure out how those two bullet points correlate with each other and you will be a more intelligent person.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    594

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_Ryan View Post
    It has been pointed out to you before, but you failed to take the advice. I will point it out again in case you missed it. You are using the term "probable cause" wrong in most of what you wrote.

    Read up on:
    - Reasonable Suspicion vs Probable Cause
    - Consent vs Detention vs Arrest

    Figure out how those two bullet points correlate with each other and you will be a more intelligent person.
    Ouch! I felt that zing all the way here in south Florida.
    "Lo Que Sea, Cuando Sea, Donde Sea"

    "Veni, Vidi, Vici!"

    "Whatcha gonna do now, PL?"

    "Strategy is the craft of the warrior. Commanders must enact the craft, and troopers should know this Way. There is no warrior in the world today who really understands the Way of strategy." Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin

    http://sentinelsofflorida.com/ is where I go for all of my Florida security info.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soper View Post
    Squid,

    Wrong. Coast Guard is DHS, so we can enforce Fed laws and are not military. POTUS cannot just order up US troops and send them anywhere. Running from the cops per your example is not evading.

    Please stick to things you know, not what you heard or read on the intardweb...or just make up...
    Regardless of whether the CG is DHS or DOD, they are still one of our nation's armed forces. We are very much military. We are also the longest continuous naval force this country has ever had. An off-topic fact: if even a single member of the CG is aboard a naval vessel for official mission-related purposes, that naval vessel is no longer a NAVY vessel- it is now a Coast Guard vessel and now has broader domestic authority then the Navy. It is also legally capable of conducting OCONUS operations that the Navy does not always have the authority to conduct.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    514

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    The CG occupies a unique place. One foot in the military and one foot as a Federal agency, that allows us (ME1) to enforce Fed laws and skirt many posse comitatus issues. There is not enough space to discuss all the finer points.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    417

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    Quote Originally Posted by combatcoastie View Post
    Regardless of whether the CG is DHS or DOD, they are still one of our nation's armed forces. We are very much military. We are also the longest continuous naval force this country has ever had. An off-topic fact: if even a single member of the CG is aboard a naval vessel for official mission-related purposes, that naval vessel is no longer a NAVY vessel- it is now a Coast Guard vessel and now has broader domestic authority then the Navy. It is also legally capable of conducting OCONUS operations that the Navy does not always have the authority to conduct.
    Lets not forget, the CG offers some very unique programs modeled from the Army Guard, two Guard units offer their Soldiers the opportunity to try-out for their three weeks of hell, the Special Force (SFAS) assessments, and the two year Q-course..

    Like CG the Army does have a few requirements, you must be already qualified X 11 BANG BANG Infantry, and already be Airborne qualified (option 4) before you can jump off the edge of the shelve and pursue your (SFAS)..

    The US Coast Guard offers their best if qualified, the chance to jump off the edge and do the same with a Seal Team Unit.
    Pop Pop - It reminds me of an old statement by my Master Sergeant. "A Good Run is better then a Bad Stand".

    Sec Trainer- Pop Pop: Hope you don't mind if I quote your Master Sergeant. He was a very smart man.

    Pop Pop- Yes Sir, Thank you Senior Instructor Sec Trainer, hope you don't mind if I place your quote into my Signature?

    Sec Trainer- Permission granted, recruit. Now, police the company area!


    flat out cool..

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