When you mess around on the job is that considered theft ?

[ptisecurity]

So, sometimes not much is happening at work and so you decide to kill some time by browsing the web, calling a friend or socializing with your co workers. Do you consider this employee theft? Because in reality you are taking the companies money when you obviously aren't working. I just read an article about employee theft and it made me start thinking.
What's your opinion?

[sec-guy]

maybe yes; maybe no

If your orders are "observe and report" and there is nothing physically to do/report; you are still doing your job.

On the otherhand if your are not doing what you are expected to be doing I would say that is "theft of service". Now if a supervisor
has not told the SO what he should be doing, that I would say is the supervisor's problem (just my $.02........I'm NOT a supervisor)

I believe that there should always be work available so the client is happy AND the S.O. is kept busy so he/she can't
get bored; an be tempted to do what he is not supposed to be doing.

[Squid]

No, not unless you want criminal charges to apply equally to other situations of "less than stellar service".

You buy a burger at Burger King and you get home and unwrap and it look diff from the posters. Not just 'diff' as in no two burgers are exactly alike but really 'different'. Is that "theft"?


Recently a Whistle Blower in San Jose PD ratted out several cops and their supervisors habit of making false overtime claims.

IMO, THAT should be a felony and since they got CCTV cams everywhere it would be easy to prove in criminal court.

Then the DA should review all the cases that relied on their testimony, because they are all obviously dishonest in their duties as police.

It isn't like the cops were doing it because they completed some task or training early and were just "making the books match". No, they are STEALING MONEY from their employer.....and then crying about how they aren't paid enough.....while other city programs for kids are being cut.

It is one thing to help yourself to a little "gravy" if some PRIVATE contract was grossly overfunded, to make up for the other 20 times you got the short end of the stick, but these cops are clearly criminals of a low and common sort.

[sec-guy]

Another thought:

"Messing around" would be an employee issue as you say.
"theft of sevice" is different.
In my opinion agreeing with a client to do 4 patrols a shift in a contract
and that not happening might lead to a court case.
I put it in the same catagory as a SO being absent from a post.

[Jim1348]

.....Do you consider this employee theft? Because in reality you are taking the companies money when you obviously aren't working.....

If you want to know the law, you need to check the actual statutes. This is what theft is in my area:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.52

However, I did see that you list Utah as your location. This is theft according to Utah state law:
(NOTE: There are a number of theft sections in Utah law.)

http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE76/htm/76_06_040900.htm

http://le.utah.gov/UtahCode/section.jsp?code=76-6

[HotelSecurity]

Firefighter here work 14 hour nights shift but are allowed to sleep. So no, when I "play" on the computer for a half hour in a 12 hour shift I do not feel like I'm stealing.

[SecTrainer]

First, "theft of service" has nothing to do with this topic. You would commit a theft of service if, for instance, you were to deposit your garbage in a dumpster that you're not paying for, if you were to use a "black box" to get a pay-per-view fight on cable, or if you somehow tapped into your neighbor's power or sewer line. That sort of thing is what constitutes "theft of service".

Second, "theft" isn't the appropriate word to use in this context either, at least in terms of most legal definitions. A more appropriate term if you're looking at this from a legal standpoint would be "fraud". In other words, it falls into the same category as the sort of fraud that employees commit when they turn in false expense reports, or falsify their time cards.

In the employment context, whether surfing the web, reading email or trimming your toenails on duty constitutes fraud against your employer depends entirely on how your employer views these activities - or would view them if known about. The employer is the one who establishes the terms of your employment as far as expectations are concerned regarding your activities.

Most companies deal with this sort of thing from a "noncriminal" standpoint, i.e., by issuing policies about such activities, and then treating violations as such - as violation of policies with potential disciplinary consequences or termination, not as criminal act to be dealt with by a criminal prosecution. This is not to say that some non-job-related activities might not cross over a line into criminality, however - for instance, employees who have used their employers' facilities, vehicles, etc. to conduct their own businesses, sometimes in direct competition with their employers. Such activities might well result in a fraud prosecution.

From the standpoint of ethics, though, it's another ballgame entirely. It's not the law or the employer who makes the judgment call when it comes to ethics. Morally, it is YOUR OWN sense of ethics that matters, and YOUR OWN definition of "theft" from your employer that you must live with. Listen to that still small voice and conduct yourself in such a way that you can look yourself in the mirror. An honest day's work will never put you in a position where you feel you should back up to the pay window to draw your weekly pay. If you're living up to the expectations of your job and in no way permitting casual, OCCASIONAL, BRIEF activities such as those described in the OP to interfere with the performance of your duties - AND if the employer has been silent about such activities in terms of policies - then I'd say that no, you're not "stealing" from your employer. But please notice all of the qualifiers that I've included above: Casual, occasional, brief, not interfering with the full performance of your duties - and not in violation of policies to the contrary.

As an aside, it's worth noting that I've seen estimates ranging upward of $50 billion a year that American businesses lose to web-surfing, Facebooking, emailing, shopping, eBaying, etc. Countering this number there have been some arguments - and I think they have merit - that allowing employees to do some of this kind of thing on a LIMITED basis actually enhances the employee's job performance because (as an example) they can easily handle family matters that arise during the workday that would otherwise call them away from work. Such arguments, however, can only be supported in the context of the qualifiers that I described above, so we come back around to those. I think they're good parameters to observe.

[Nuke_Worker]

I guess it depends on what your employer wants from you, and you agreed to provide.

While I was in the Navy, I worked part-time as a security guard. One week I started getting full-time paychecks, so I called the company owner. He explained that he had a few clients that needed to hire security for the insurance break, but didn’t care if security ever showed up at the site. So the company owner paid his part-time folks as if they were working, and billed the clients. The situation worked great for everyone, but the insurance company who was getting scammed a little. (They did get security service when someone was available.) I wouldn’t say this was the most ethical thing I’ve ever done, but I didn’t consider it stealing.

[Squid]

Like they used to say in jolly old England, "This is free country and everyone is equal under the law. It is just as illegal for a rich man to sleep under a bridge as for a poor man to sleep under the same bridge."