Professional Courtesy

[PolarDeer]

In my case it is not just something for the office people to worry about. These outside people are taking jobs away from my people.

Knowing a few in-house types and having worked with a few (my employer delivers extras and whatnot to a couple of locations with in-house security) I understand that. It's also understandable to react that way if one is working contract and the account is transferring to a different company and the client wants the old guards to train the new ones to the site which is fairly common around here.

[Jaeger]

Any chance that this refers to one specific company holding the VR (National railway company) contract? Been getting a similar idea.

Yes, this is the case I pointed indirectly towards.

[HotelSecurity]

Knowing a few in-house types and having worked with a few (my employer delivers extras and whatnot to a couple of locations with in-house security) I understand that. It's also understandable to react that way if one is working contract and the account is transferring to a different company and the client wants the old guards to train the new ones to the site which is fairly common around here.

Quebec Labour law forces companies that take over a contract to keep the guards from the old company.

[Lawson]

In the U.S. Malls don't make laws, they make policies. They may have a policy against the uniform or the gun...which would be enough to ask the person to leave and advise of the reason. It is NOT enough to trespass or detain a person (barring any actual breach of law or refusal to leave). Doing so would be an unlawful detention and would subject the officer doing the detention to arrest and the mall to a law suit.

You don't need to break a law to be trespassed. You also don't need to detain someone in order to have them trespassed. I've trespassed plenty of people from properties while they were free to leave the entire time.

[Jaeger]

Quebec Labour law forces companies that take over a contract to keep the guards from the old company.

This happens around here too.

Although from what I've understood, the law around here does not automatically force the new company to hire the old officers to the new account, but from time to time this does happen.

[ShutDown24]

In an earlier thread I mentioned a poster on thehighroad.org that complained that he was asked to leave a mall in Pennsylvania when he showed up in full uniform to escort his daughter to her car. His contention was that the mall security took exception to the fact that he was armed (legal in Pennsylvania) and asked him to leave because of it. (To clarify he was on his way home from work, he didn't make a special trip to escort his daughter)

The more I read the thread the less it seems to be a “gun” issue to me.

Maybe it’s because of my background but I see it as an issue of professional courtesy and in my experience professional courtesy dictates that I don’t show up on your security company’s site in my security company’s uniform.

The only real experience I’ve had with this is a company that sent one of their guards to escort female employees to their cars in a parking garage that my employer was contracted to guard.
As long as the guard escorted the employees directly to their cars and took no other action I really had no problem with it.

So in the given situation, you are a licensed security guard on duty on client property and a person wearing the uniform of another company shows up on your site acting in what appears to be a professional capacity.
How do you respond?

What if he is just there as a customer?

Would you go on another company’s site (assuming it was open to the public) in your uniform?

The firearm shouldn't have been the issue. Perfectly legal to open carry in Pennsylvania. I do it myself in certain settings.

As everyone else has stated it was the uniform that was most likely the point of discomfort. But if the s/o was simply there to escort his daughter, I don't have a major issue with it. Should he have changed or thrown a jacket on? Probably. But as long as he wasn't gallivanting around the property for upwards of a few minutes I can give him a pass. I think there is a difference between professional courtesy and professional lunacy and being strongly offended for another s/o coming on your site briefly for a legitimate reason is walking the line.

[TOII]

You don't need to break a law to be trespassed. You also don't need to detain someone in order to have them trespassed. I've trespassed plenty of people from properties while they were free to leave the entire time.

Must be some different laws where you are from then. I don't know anyone that would volunteer to let themselves be trespassed. I do believe I stated break a law or violate a posted policy, other wise you have no grounds for the trespass...at least not at a facility open to the public. It would also be a very stupid thing to do. Not only do you lose a potential customer for no real reason, you also cause issues with a tenant. At most you have a situation where you advise the person about a policy regarding the uniform,gun,whatever. If it is done again then you have grounds.

[HotelSecurity]

Security Report

Date: May 23, 2012 Report #: S-120523-XX

Incident: A school group hired their own outside Security.

Group: ABC.

Details: The guard from the outside company showed up shortly before 23H00; and I was informed by the front desk staff that he would be on the 8th floor.

This is not the first time that this individual has worked this type of shift; nor is it the first time that ABC has hired an outside Security agency to work in the Hotel.

At approximately 03H00 while doing a routine patrol I found the officer to be fast asleep; I woke him up with some difficulty.

A short time later I replaced one our own officers: David Smith; who was working an extra security shift and I asked him to check the 8th floor for me. He reported that the officer was sound asleep again.


Reported by: Joseph Gravel


OK. Here is a report from last night. What should we do without looking like we are being revengeful?

[PolarDeer]

At the very least I'd call his supervisor or some other contact person from his company about sleeping on duty. No experience with the problem of customers wanting to bring in their own security, but unprofessional conduct should be dealt with especially when it could affect what's going on in your site.

[TOII]

The guy being asleep is the problem of ABC. I would have reported it on my DAR and left it alone. If his actions were of the type that affects the hotel then I would deal with it.