Biggest Gripe About LEO's?

[Tennsix]

What are your pet peeves regarding police officers? I interact with security officers frequently and I want to know what they might be saying about me, after I leave. I make it a point to treat all security officers with respect and they usually reciprocate. What can we (police) do to better our relationship with security personnel?

[N. A. Corbier]

The only real gripe I've had about LEOs is when you get one who dosen't feel that its their job to do their job, no matter the violation. I'll give two examples that made the security officers look bad. One was addressed by a Master Patrol Officer (E-2) at the scene, the other was addressed by a Corporal who stopped in to appologize for the officer's attitude later.

Part of the duties on the site I was a site supervisor on required that we call the police for any vehicle with expired, altered, or missing plates to verify the vehicle is not stolen or otherwise wanted. If its clean, we did a private impound. If its not, we held the vehicle till the local police responded. The local police agency suddenly enacted a policy of sending out a police officer to investigate ANY suspicious vehicle call. So, when I and my partner found a vehicle with no stolen indicators, just an altered tag on private property (temp expiration altered,) the dispatcher sent an officer to investigate the issue. The officer was annoyed that we "requested an officer" to investigate a non-crime, as the altered tag is only a crime on public roads. We told him that the dispatcher sent him, not us, and he responded by neutral dropping his car into drive after revving the engine, which woke up half the section 8 housing and gave us some very pissed off residents. We assured the residents we'd "deal with it," and called the Corporal on her cell to keep the officer from getting offiical reports filed against him by the residents, she said she'd handle it with counseling, and I'm told she did. He eventually started working with us, and when he made MPO, we could count on him to get 10 police officers to help sweep the area when there's 100 kids out of control during a block party, and only 5 security officers to remove them.

The second incident was at the same property. Most of the officers in the sector knew that we were vigerously enforcing the trespass laws to curb illegal drug running from our units to the crack house across the street. The officers knew we worked with the local anti-drug and street crime team, and that most of the people we'd be hitting with trespass warnings would have crack cocaine on them.

For some reason, one of the newer officers decided to take an hour to arrive, told my partner that trespass is a "piddly ass crime," and not to call her again, because it wastes her time to write trespass warnings. This was in front of the trespassed individual, as well. Her backup heard all this, and called an MPO to the scene, who took her aside and reminded her that her job IS to write trespass warnings, and to arrest for trespass after warning, and to support the property owners in upholding their rights (or that of the agents) in property crimes, especially when the guy she's writing has a warrant out.

She didn't like coming out after that, which was just fine by us.

The only peeves I have are when the LEO doesn't feel they have time to do their job. I've heard things like, "Can I get to the shooting now?" No, because if you were dispatched to that shooting, you wouldn't be babysitting this stolen vehicle and booking this car thief we caught. I also can't stand inter-department rivalries. I have actually had to call the local sheriff because the local police (A different police) were so unprofessional as to the point they were not enforcing the law. A Deputy Sergeant arrived, ordered the police officers away, and took enforcement action. That local police department hired a new chief a few years back, and are now greatly improved with their relations with both the sheriff and several security companies. On the other coin, don't judge the fact we wear professional, quality, uniforms as an indication that we're all "wannabes." This stemmed from local deputies mistaking the company I worked for for another one, because of the quality of our uniforms compared to the rent-a-body companies. After he started yelling about "Company this and COmpany that" I polietly asked him to open his eyes and read my patches.

[IrishGuard]

I have 'No Pet Peeves' regarding Police Officers and I judge them as I find them.

In so far as what they might be saying about you, Tennsix, well I guess it depends on your attitude towards them and how you respond to the reason why they called you in the first place.

Just as there are many types of Police Officers, there are also many types of Security Officers and you should be mindful that within the private security industry there are many who have had distinguished careers within the police and military and you would be wise to bear that in mind when dealing with Security Officers, Tennsix. ;) :)

[Tennsix]

I have 'No Pet Peeves' regarding Police Officers and I judge them as I find them.

In so far as what they might be saying about you, Tennsix, well I guess it depends on your attitude towards them and how you respond to the reason why they called you in the first place.

Just as there are many types of Police Officers, there are also many types of Security Officers and you should be mindful that within the private security industry there are many who have had distinguished careers within the police and military and you would be wise to bear that in mind when dealing with Security Officers, Tennsix. ;) :)

What?s with the egotistical and confrontational attitude? I harbor no predisposed or stereotypical attitude toward security guards.

I am well aware people had jobs/careers prior to security work. As for what I bear in mind, I can handle myself. I treat people the way I would like to be treated. That philosophy has served me well in my private and professional life.

[Mr. Security]

Tennsix,

Welcome! We are pleased to have you join us. We can always benefit from your LEO experience. I want to commend you for wanting to improve relations between police and security and vice-versa. We both have distinct roles to play in protecting people and property. I wish the police where I work would interact with us, even if they just stopped by to say hello when it's slow in their sector. Unfortunately, the police that work near my post avoid contact with us and it's like pulling teeth to get them to come when we have trespassers, etc. I am a former police/911 dispatcher and would appreciate having a rapport with them. Any ideas or suggestions? Your attitude toward security is refreshing and very encouraging. Keep up the excellent work. I am grateful that we have police officers like you to serve and protect us.

[The_Mayor]

Hello Tennsix,
When I come across Officers with good character such as yourself I never have complaints.

My one "pet peeve" with LEOs is that I cant stand the ones who dont do their jobs. Ones who think that their job is not their job. Whether Security or Police Officer you are there to protect and secure people, property, and perimeters. If you are a person in a postion of trust and public safety I beleive that you should not be a slacker period.

I think we can better our dealings with eachother if we just stick to respecting eachother and keep our minds on the job. :)

[Tennsix]

Well said.

[Tennsix]

Tennsix,

Welcome! We are pleased to have you join us. We can always benefit from your LEO experience. I want to commend you for wanting to improve relations between police and security and vice-versa. We both have distinct roles to play in protecting people and property. I wish the police where I work would interact with us, even if they just stopped by to say hello when it's slow in their sector. Unfortunately, the police that work near my post avoid contact with us and it's like pulling teeth to get them to come when we have trespassers, etc. I am a former police/911 dispatcher and would appreciate having a rapport with them. Any ideas or suggestions? Your attitude toward security is refreshing and very encouraging. Keep up the excellent work. I am grateful that we have police officers like you to serve and protect us.
Thanks for the welcome. I am a member of officer.com. I see some familar screen names here.

[Mr. Security]

Thanks for the welcome. I am a member of officer.com. I see some familar screen names here.

You caught me :D

[IrishGuard]

What?s with the egotistical and confrontational attitude?

I didn't mean it to sound that way and I thought that my use of the Smilies would have clarified my tone, but apparently not.

Although it appears that I am referring to you personally, I was referring to all Police and Security Officers in general.

Your question was - "What are your pet peeves regarding police officers?"

I acknowledge that my answer may have given the impression that you personally were my pet peeve, which of course is not the case because, as I do not personally know you, I am therefore not in a position to judge you. :)

On reflection, my reply to your question would have been better put thus;

"I have 'No Pet Peeves' regarding Police Officers and I judge them as I find them.

In so far as what Security Officers might be saying about attending Police Officers, well I guess it depends on the Police attitude towards them and their response to the reason why they were called in the first place.

Just as there are many types of Police Officers, there are also many types of Security Officers and attending police officers should be mindful that within the private security industry there are many who have had distinguished careers within the police and military."

[Tennsix]

Thanks for the clarification.

Respect is not bestowed upon a person, it is earned. That is true in all walks of life. I my years on the job, I have learned that no one has all the answers and we all learn something new everyday. Having said that, we (SEO and LEO) should strive to earn each other?s respect. I realize that won?t happen over night but the practice of keeping score, so to speak, only serves to perpetuate discord.

[N. A. Corbier]

Thanks for the clarification.

Respect is not bestowed upon a person, it is earned. That is true in all walks of life. I my years on the job, I have learned that no one has all the answers and we all learn something new everyday. Having said that, we (SEO and LEO) should strive to earn each other?s respect. I realize that won?t happen over night but the practice of keeping score, so to speak, only serves to perpetuate discord.

I'm reminded of a multi-million dollar campaign the State of Florida runs, every year, to teach police officers about the licensing, mission, and powers of a private security officer in Florida. Pamphlets, training, speakers, you name it - all with one goal: To make police officers understand that Florida requires security officers for hire (Not in-house) have minimum standards and training and that they may carry their weapon anywhere in the state - regardless of location - while performing duties. The other end of this is part of the State Security Officer training, which tries to teach security officers that police officers are not your enemy, etc.

I think alot of the problem stems from the fact that private security keeps expanding into new areas, usually driven by market conditions. As the numbers of private security employees skyrocket, the budgets of public policing agencies are nearing the breaking point. American Public Policing, from what I've read, is just that, American. Many European towns contract with Securitas for a town constable, who responds to calls in the manner of deputies in rural areas - Securitas sends a police officer down to your town to deal with a police problem.

Something I hear alot is "Security guards keep trying to do our job." I've heard this in reference to things have not been typically police responsibilities - such as response to alarms, protection of individuals (not society as a whole), and providing armed protection to nightclubs, etc. I think alot of this stems from police short-calls or off-duty work, something that directly competes with security companies.

I've watched police officers at street level try to "steal" contracts from my previous employer, claiming superior training and authority. In most cases, you do not need law enforcement powers to complete the client's mission, so its a waste of money. The off-duty LEO must still call for transport. The off-duty LEO cannot leave the client's property, as he is legally protecting it. Most off-duty LEOs are not willing to enforce client regulations - they vary from site to site, and usually enforce felony or misdomeanor law only.

I've had conversations with police officers about DHS issues, especially petrochemical depots in the Port of Tampa. I was informed by several officers that they fear responding to calls for service in that area - they don't want to be blown to hell because someone flicks a bic in the Port. Most are afraid and unwilling to enter the petrochemical sterile zone, they have to get out of their car - walk - and turn off their pager and radio. Would you want to turn your police radio off and be utterly alone in an enviornment where firearms usage may cause 4,000,000 gallons of gasoline to explode? However, I've had police officers with no ISPS training whatsoever state that private security has no business in the ports, and that it should be street level patrol officers. He was at a loss when he was quizzed on ISPS/USCG/DHS protocol for vessels, and then realized that you can't put your average security guard in a port, they require special training to federal standards.

Right now, private security's expanding role is competition for off-duty police contracts, as are off-duty police contracts competition for security companies. Police organizations seem to resent the fact that the public is turning more and more to private contractors for non-enforcement services, such as protection of public areas (malls, etc) which are private property, and the legislative intent behind strengthening security powers.

Many people state that "security guards are private citizens, nothing more." I find this to be falacy and untrue. As a nation, security personnel are being afforded privilages commonly reserved for law enforcement officers. Powers of arrest, open carry of firearms after training, carrying of batons and pepper spray in states where their possession is prohibited by the public, authority to issue parking tickets and some citations, and even the extreme of private police forces in masterplanned communities - all deputized for the shift by the public Chief of Police. Here, in Wisconsin, private security officers are given the privilage of carrying a weapon openly while in a moving vehicle, something that the general public is prohibited from doing. In Florida, they may bear arms openly, against Florida Statute, in areas where normal citizens may not carry concealed.

Society demands, as they have for years, that someone protect them. For that, we have the police department. Individuals, corporations, and cooperatives demand that they have someone to protect THEM exclusively. For that, we have private security.

[Mr. Security]

After the treatment I got on one police site, it's clear to me that most cops view s/o's as contemptable. I use to be pro law enforcement, but no longer. If a cop is nice to me then I will respond in kind. Otherwise, I see them as a necessary evil in todays violent society and that's it!:(

Tennsix: Thanks for your kind replies to my questions on that site:) Since I am not allowed to thank the VA trooper who came to my aid when all the other cops ganged up on me, I would appreciate it if you sent him a private message thanking him in my behalf.

[N. A. Corbier]

After the treatment I got on one police site, it's clear to me that most cops view s/o's as contemptable. I use to be pro law enforcement, but no longer. If a cop is nice to me then I will respond in kind. Otherwise, I see them as a necessary evil in todays violent society and that's it!:(

Tennsix: Thanks for your kind replies to my questions on that site:) Since I am not allowed to thank the VA trooper who came to my aid when all the other cops ganged up on me, I would appreciate it if you sent him a private message thanking him in my behalf.

I take it you stirred up the hornet's nest, and got banned? It happens, as that website (a sister site of this site, btw) is marketing towards sworn law enforcement officers, but more importantly, sworn managers with decision powers. Those are the advertisers they're after. :)

Remember what I said about fraternity. LE has a large fraternity, and has for years. There are two kinds of people in the LE world: Those who have the badge, and those who don't.

Notice how some users fight over "who a cop is," or "prison guard" vs "correctional officer." It seems quite a few "minorities" on that site have to deal with issues from the road officer, while others will staunchly run up and defend the correctional deputy, jailer, etc.

[Mr. Security]

I take it you stirred up the hornet's nest, and got banned? It happens, as that website (a sister site of this site, btw) is marketing towards sworn law enforcement officers, but more importantly, sworn managers with decision powers. Those are the advertisers they're after. :)

Remember what I said about fraternity. LE has a large fraternity, and has for years. There are two kinds of people in the LE world: Those who have the badge, and those who don't.

Notice how some users fight over "who a cop is," or "prison guard" vs "correctional officer." It seems quite a few "minorities" on that site have to deal with issues from the road officer, while others will staunchly run up and defend the correctional deputy, jailer, etc.

Yea, they banned me. The more I read various posts about how they can't stand security officers, the angrier I got. That thread that I started about showing p/c to S/O's was a test. I really don't expect any special treatment. But I knew that thread would expose the hatred that they have on that site against security. They took the bait and confirmed my suspicions. You are exactly right. They can't even get along between themselves. Be careful on that site. They would love to find some excuse to ban anyone in security that calls them on it.:(

[N. A. Corbier]

Yea, they banned me. The more I read various posts about how they can't stand security officers, the angrier I got. That thread that I started about showing p/c to S/O's was a test. I really don't expect any special treatment. But I knew that thread would expose the hatred that they have on that site against security. They took the bait and confirmed my suspicions. You are exactly right. They can't even get along between themselves. Be careful on that site. They would love to find some excuse to ban anyone in security that calls them on it.:(

You know what would be wonderful? If each of those cops picked up the phone and called the security company that employed the hood rat, and complained their asses off. If the FOP would step in and start complaining, as well, and the PBA as well.

Maybe, then, there would be a sharp decrease in warm body employees in professional companies, and warm body companies.

[Mr. Security]

You know what would be wonderful? If each of those cops picked up the phone and called the security company that employed the hood rat, and complained their asses off. If the FOP would step in and start complaining, as well, and the PBA as well.

Maybe, then, there would be a sharp decrease in warm body employees in professional companies, and warm body companies.

Well said. That would be a lot better than taking it out on the s/o's who wanted to have good relations with them. Maybe I'll get to interact with a LEO who will return the respect that I try to show to them. Right now, I'm not feeling to 'warm and fuzzy' inside about the way it went down.

Have a good night.:)

[1stWatch]

After the treatment I got on one police site, it's clear to me that most cops view s/o's as contemptable. I use to be pro law enforcement, but no longer. If a cop is nice to me then I will respond in kind. Otherwise, I see them as a necessary evil in todays violent society and that's it!:(

Tennsix: Thanks for your kind replies to my questions on that site:) Since I am not allowed to thank the VA trooper who came to my aid when all the other cops ganged up on me, I would appreciate it if you sent him a private message thanking him in my behalf.
__________________________________________________ _______________

I have kept silent on this issue for quite a while, but now I feel compelled to relate my opinion, so I will state my biggest "gripes" about LEO's.
There has been good, bad, and ugly.

The Good: Meeting honest LEO's who treat every member of the public with respect and do their work diligently. These people have my utmost respect.
Working cooperatively with law enforcement - seeing police haul in a suspect I stopped for a burglary or a drug deal - backing a LEO on the scene of his call on one of my properties.
These types of things have built mutual respect between police and security I have worked around and such encounters usually end with a handshake and a "thank you". I have made some wonderful friends and acquaintances in law enforcement because of mutual respect and cooperation.

The Bad: Being treated with extreme disrespect by law enforcement. Hearing them say things like "who the f*&k called you out" or "why don't you get a real badge". Hearing them tell me things like "go wait.. waaay over there until I finish talking to this person or you're going to jail." One officer I saw even displayed the "bird" while driving past my patrol car! These guys always complain about how unprofessional they think s/o's are, but they display behavior just as bad.
Telling members of the general public that I, as a security officer, have "no authority" and to "never cooperate" since I am not police - working patrol in apartments leads me, as a security officer, to contact many drug addicts, felons, and violent personalities and it is my job as such to put an end to criminal activity within the scope and authority of the job. These people don't need to make a challenging position worse by sticking up for the criminals and creating a false inferior image in the public eye about what we do.
Ugly uniforms - most of the cops, at least around here, talk about having wonderful uniforms, but only 10% of the ones I see wear them properly and most of them who do have military experience. I see wrinkled uniform shirts, food stains on the pants, tattered gold cords on the pants, scratched leather gear, gear in improper places on the belt, and large bellies hanging over the belt. Yet, these same people complain about security having the same uniform errors. A lot of the public will judge you based on what you look like.
Misrepresenting the law - I continue to see LEO's who are poorly read or poorly educated who show up on a scene and misquote the law. You would think this problem is prominent among inexperienced rookie officers, but I have seen it happen with 20 year veterans as well. Many are not read up on current criminal procedures or on penal code definitions of things like assault or family violence. This leads to poor decisions in the field.
Profiling security - besides lack of respect or incorrect knowledge, some have taken to profiling s/o's during traffic stops. Me and many of the private patrol officers I know have been pulled over by police for stupid bs traffic violations such as not using a turn signal from enough distance, not having a bright enough license plate light, speeding 5 mph over the limit, or having cracks on the front windshield. Some of these folks were pulled over repeatedly by the same officers during the same shift. I can see this honestly happening in a community where traffic enforcement is strict and everyone there is subjected to this; however, in the city where I work they are not. Such enforcement on us is just crap, I mean come on.

The Ugly: Some of the LEO's I have encountered are so contemptuous of security they immediately turn red in the face as soon as they see us and are no longer interested in performing their jobs. This was partially described under "The Bad", but some take it to a whole new level. "What the F&*K are you doing here!!?" is a phrase I have heard quite a bit. I have seen LEO's threaten s/o's with violence or with arrest when the s/o did not commit an offense.
Arresting s/o's for doing the job - now, I'm not speaking of s/o's such as the one from the "security vs skateboarder" video, or of those who make blatant grand errors such as unlawful arrests, but showing up and saying he's going to jail because he's wearing a blue uniform - a blue uniform that is registered with the state and already declared official for the s/o to wear - or arresting the s/o for unlawful restraint because of using handcuffs during a lawful arrest, completely disregarding what the state's arrest laws actually state - threatening to arrest the s/o for ordering someone off the property or for asking, not demanding or forcing, ID from someone. Such charges are normally dropped by the presiding magistrate shortly after being taken into custody, but most s/o's cannot afford bail and have to sit out 72 hours in jail anyway. I'm sure LEO's are aware of this. Just a coincidence? Hmmmm - I think not.
Refusing to do the job - refusing to take a prisoner to jail just because he was initially arrest by security - some of these suspects are hard and violent felons and they are let go. Refusing to issue trespass warnings - trying to eliminate the s/o's authority of removal as representative of property owner - they know we have to call them out as a witness to a trespass warning for it to have any legal standing and many refuse to document the warning. This basically invalidates it. Making drunks walk away down the road instead of taking them into custody - this person will most likely get run over by a car just because that LEO didn't want a stinky drunk in the car.
Politicing with security's clientele - this happens a lot in Texas - cops going around to various clients a security company provides services to just to try to sabotage that company. Telling them things about that security company that are false, saying they break the law constantly, that they should cancel their service asap - an off-duty LEO would be much better for you. A lot of security companies have actually had to close their doors because of this kind of thing happening. I had no idea cops wanted to be security guards so badly.
Committing crimes - occassionally we come across rotten apples in law enforcement who are what they are supposed to be opposing - criminals. Cops selling cocaine from their squad cars, taking bribes, participating in money laundering, or engaging in lewdness in the squad car. There have been quite a few times we have come across somebody getting a bj from a street hooker while in full uniform because the discount was so handy.

Some of these things I described the the "bad" and "ugly" sections are so rampant a lot of the people I work with carry recorders just because of it. There has been a lot of good progress, but I say we still have a long way to go.

[davis002]

__________________________________________________ _______________
Some of these things I described the the "bad" and "ugly" sections are so rampant a lot of the people I work with carry recorders just because of it. There has been a lot of good progress, but I say we still have a long way to go.

Funny you mentioned that, as I have had similar experiences that merited having a recorder in my pocket. I developed my own prototype system that utilizes a color button camera/microphone attached to a palm-sized micro dvr (digital video recorder) that is concealed in a rugged duty-belt detachable leather black basketweave case. Also inside the case is a small power supply for the button camera. All together the case is similar in size to a standard radio holder. The rechargable 40 Hour DVR has a built-in 3.5" color screen for immediate playback, and will synch with your PC via USB or connect to your TV/VCR via RCA.

Basically you start recording if you encounter an incident where the subjects conduct merits it. Some states might not allow it due to privacy laws, but in the State of Minnesota you can. I carry it typically when I am working at bars/nightclubs, or an account that has a history of assault & disorderly conduct.

[S/O245]

My self i really have nothing bad to say about most Police Officers. My current assignment im at now i have always had fast response time when i needed asst from them. I was surprised when i had 2 male subjects on foot at the back of my assignment heading another another property 5 units responded to Me and they stoped the subjects too. All of the officers and sgt's that i have delt with have been nice and very helpfull at all times. They check on me at times which i like because im on duty alone its just Me. I think that they are all great group of guys and have came to help me when i called on them. I will also help any of them anytime needed.

Stay Safe All :)

[The_Mayor]

__________________________________________________ _______________
These guys always complain about how unprofessional they think s/o's are, but they display behavior just as bad.
.

This is classic of police and I think it stems from a pervasive sense of entitlement. Not to mention their own deficiencies...they look for them in others. They do not have higher standards.

Go to O.com and read Mr. Security's last thread..its sad really....they can't even behave as adults.

[N. A. Corbier]

I'll be honest - I've encountered LEOs who attempted all of the above. When I was younger, I was all "... wtf?" Now, I have a system. :)

1. Your company management needs to know about these incidents. Document them in your chronolgical log, and fill out an incident report about it. Call a supervisor to the scene.

The more security officers present, the harder it is for one bad LEO to keep on the track they're going on. If you have 3 security officers, a security supervisor, and the security supervisor is on the phone to the LEO's watch commander, its gonna turn real bad for the LEO who started down this path.

2. Not all cops are like this. I had a problem with a patrol officer who was of the "What the F, Get the F out of here, I'm gonna arrest you" variety. His corporal pulled up shortly after, and I asked her what flavor of crack this guy was on. He was pulled from the scene and dressed down, while another officer gave me the information I needed to complete my report - on a contact which we initiated. Such things as, "That's your WITNESS, how the F do you think this'll stand up, your on PRIVATE PROPERTY, you have no PC to stop that guy without the guard!" were said to him.

3. Just like there are idiot security officers, there are idiot police officers. Its a fact of life, we use human beings for employees in both professions. While police training has some cupability in this (control the scene at all times), alot of it is due to "good old boys" philosophy. This is a philosophy that can get LEOs in serious trouble with their citizenry, superiors, and local businesses.

4. Politicking to the Public - This includes "Guards have bad uniforms," "You would be better off with off duty police," "You have no authority on this property, only I do," and my favorite, "All this guard can do is call us. He cannot touch you or tell you to leave. I CAN. Now leave or I'll arrest you."

These are all issues that directly impact the smooth operation of business. Report them to your company, report them to your client, and advise them of the law. My former employer prepared a statement of Florida Law which outlined what a private citizen (Yes, security officers are citizens too, even if the police don't realize it!) can and cannot due, under Florida Statute, on their property. It also included things that the police can and cannot do. A security officer has the awesome power, that police officers do not have, of removing someone from their private property in the steed of the owner. A police officer cannot tell you to leave just because, a security officer can.

Florida's Division of Licensing maintains that it is unethical and fraudulent activity for a security company to try to "steal accounts" by slandering the other company. Most states will probally agree. Police officers attempting to politic the contract, while acting in an official capacity, are risking their jobs for making slanderous and unethical comments.

To me, off-duty police services and security are direct competitors. They are to alot of cops, too, who want those contracts. Most clients simply refuse to pay 40+ an hour for law enforcement services, when they need rules enforcement as well, and can get it for 18-28 an hour.

I have never heard a law enforcement officer go after someone's equipment, duty rig, or uniform before. Mainly because in Florida, we all wore Command Shirts in LAPD Navy, and the only way to tell sworn from non-sworn was by patches.

Up here, I'm taking the "high road" and using Steel Grey shirts and trousers, because the local police use LAPD Navy, and I want no association with the local police.

In summary, not all police officers are like those described. Those who are doing such things are in the wrong, and do it only because they feel invunerable to the second class citizen that is the uniformed security officer. I guarantee you that they will not do it to plain clothes loss prevention, non-sworn county employees, etc. They know that their organizations will back the guy they're harassing, and boom, they're on desk duty or up on charges.

Do not allow a bad apple to steamroll you. Get audio/video evidence - you are in a public place and can video/audio record all you want without permission. Call a supervisor to the scene, and present your evidence. Work as a company to deal with these guys. Only then will they stop.

[1stWatch]

In short, all of those things are being done to protect ourselves from unethical behavior. Most of the officers we come into contact with are certainly like those described in paragraph one; however, if the shoe fits, wear it.

[Mr. Security]

This is classic of police and I think it stems from a pervasive sense of entitlement. Not to mention their own deficiencies...they look for them in others. They do not have higher standards.

Go to O.com and read Mr. Security's last thread..its sad really....they can't even behave as adults.

Even though I knew it is a touchy subject and that I would get some 'flak,' I was taken aback by the viciousness of many comments posted on the threat noted above by The Mayor. One VA trooper came to my aid, no doubt because VA troopers have falsely been accused of not showing p/c to other LEO's. If you read what many LEO's said about VA troopers, who are their brother officers, you will be shocked at the hatred posted on that site against the VA troopers. He (the trooper) knew what it is like when certain officers on that site smell the 'blood in the water.' It's like swimming in a river full of piranhas with a bleeding cut on your body. The outcome is obvious!

[The_Mayor]

The VSP is the creme de la creme of law enforcement..they are by far the most professional and objective LE agency that I have ever come into contact with. They enforce the law with due dilegence, they don't let officers get out of tickets by flashing tin, and they avoid the crummy "good old boys" attitude.

My uncle was a trooper in the VSP and he now teaches at the Univ. of Virginia.

I too, have picked up on the general disdain for the VSP that many officers on O.com seem to exhibit..bickering babies all of 'em.

I sent a letter to VSP Trooper Gillian, praising him for giving a citation to the loud mouth, whiney New Jersey cop.

[Mr. Security]

.... There are two kinds of people in the LE world: Those who have the badge, and those who don't.

Ever notice how SOME in LE like to refer to everyone else as "civilians," using a tone that reveals their superior attitude towards the common people. Yet, when a major crime is committed and LE exhausts all their leads, whom do they turn to? Yea, you guessed it, those "civilians," the public/common people. And isn't it the civilians who usually notify the police when there is a crime, accident, or some other emergency?

If you are in LE and notice others in your department looking down on the public as if they are all stupid, please have the inner courage to speak up and condemn this type of thinking.

[S/O245]

Well nothing is wrong with being a Citizen. After all if you are a citizen should you not be proud to be one ? I dont really think I have ever seen any police officers and i know alot of them that ever really look down on a citizen. But when it comes to the job like one person said either you have a badge or not. I think the ones they look down on are the ones that are trouble. I have seen guys when someone calls and say i hate to bother you and the officer replies this is my job he said I work for you.

Stay Safe All :)

[N. A. Corbier]

There is one caveat on Officer.com - there is little proof, unlike some other forums that do sworn status verification, of the poster actually being a sworn law enforcement officer. So, their statements are automatically suspect.

Unforunately, I know what Mr. Security is referring to. However, you also have to remember the concept of "internet courage." The Law of Internet Courage stipulates that you will defame, harass, attack, and otherwise do things to a person that you will not do in real life, because you have the anominity of the internet to shield you from that person's wrath.

Behind the Shield of Internet Courage, people say amazing things. "F- all the stupid citizens," "I'm a cop, I don't have to follow the law," etc. Because they know that deep down, nobody's going to catch them saying these things in reality, and pin the comments onto them.

Some of us (Obivously myself) don't bother with Internet Courage, and use real names. It is, I'm told, trivial to locate where I am, as I run a business and can be traced that way. I don't really have to worry about some guy from the Internets coming to kick my ass over some forum post, and if it comes to it, that individual will recieve a warm welcome in various calibers if needs be. :)

In closing, there are cops who let their badge, official authority, and locker room "facts of life" talks go straight to their head. These cops will eventually be determined to be wack jobs, beyond recycling, and terminated with cause - if not arrested for civil rights violations. However, there are people who don't have these issues in public policing, and those that do who know how to keep them to themselves and follow the rules they're required to.

I could care less if a sworn officer feels himself above the law, so long as he dosen't trample over another's rights in support of his feeling. Someone else will come along and remind him that he is not above the law when it gets out of hand. It may be a FOP rep, his supervisor, a fellow officer, or a member of the public.

[Tennsix]

Ever notice how SOME in LE like to refer to everyone else as "civilians," using a tone that reveals their superior attitude towards the common people. Yet, when a major crime is committed and LE exhausts all their leads, whom do they turn to? Yea, you guessed it, those "civilians," the public/common people. And isn't it the civilians who usually notify the police when there is a crime, accident, or some other emergency?

If you are in LE and notice others in your department looking down on the public as if they are all stupid, please have the inner courage to speak up and condemn this type of thinking.
I commonly used the word "civilian". My use of the word in no way infers inferiority. When speaking with other officers, it is an easy way to delineate a uniformed/sworn public official such as fire or EMS. The definition of the word "civilian" is: A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police. Yes, I do understand what you are saying but I disagree in that we have manipulated the word to characterize one?s station in life.

The word police is derived from a Latin term meaning ?Power of The People?. The word its self implies we (police) derive our authority from the state. I would argue that we don?t depend on the people to solve our cases but that we are the instrument by which the people detect, solve and (hopefully) prevent ciminal activity.

Sorry, if that doesn?t make sense. I am in hurry-running late for work :)

[N. A. Corbier]

I commonly used the word "civilian". My use of the word in no way infers inferiority. When speaking with other officers, it is an easy way to delineate a uniformed/sworn public official such as fire or EMS. The definition of the word "civilian" is: A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police. Yes, I do understand what you are saying but I disagree in that we have manipulated the word to characterize one?s station in life.

The word police is derived from a Latin term meaning ?Power of The People?. The word its self implies we (police) derive our authority from the state. I would argue that we don?t depend on the people to solve our cases but that we are the instrument by which the people detect, solve and (hopefully) prevent ciminal activity.

Sorry, if that doesn?t make sense. I am in hurry-running late for work :)

The only counter I have to this, Tennsix, is that your using "we," but your only speaking for the normal sworn officers who actually do things like respect the public they serve, etc. :) There are some who hold a certain distain for those who are not brothers, for some reason. As I said, if they're smart, they'll keep their mouth shut around those they distain, and get to keep their job.

[Tennsix]

The only counter I have to this, Tennsix, is that your using "we," but your only speaking for the normal sworn officers who actually do things like respect the public they serve, etc. :) There are some who hold a certain distain for those who are not brothers, for some reason. As I said, if they're smart, they'll keep their mouth shut around those they distain, and get to keep their job.
I will not deny there is a badge heavy faction of police officers. However, I would like to think they are the minority.

[Mr. Security]

I commonly used the word "civilian". My use of the word in no way infers inferiority. When speaking with other officers, it is an easy way to delineate a uniformed/sworn public official such as fire or EMS. The definition of the word "civilian" is: A person following the pursuits of civil life, especially one who is not an active member of the military or police. Yes, I do understand what you are saying but I disagree in that we have manipulated the word to characterize one?s station in life.

The word police is derived from a Latin term meaning ?Power of The People?. The word its self implies we (police) derive our authority from the state. I would argue that we don?t depend on the people to solve our cases but that we are the instrument by which the people detect, solve and (hopefully) prevent ciminal activity.

Sorry, if that doesn?t make sense. I am in hurry-running late for work :)

You made sense. Remember though, you are different from some of your peers. You are not biased against the security profession or civilians. Even though you do not look down on civilians, the same cannot be said of other police officers. Dealing with the public, especially with regard to police matters, can certainly expose LE to the worst that humanity has to offer. This is bound to have a negative effect on some police officers. I wouldn't want to deal with or even view some of the horrific crime scenes and accidents that many police officers respond to. You can help though. How? By using positive peer pressure when you encounter any LEO who promotes a superior attitude when dealing with people they have sworn to protect and serve.

PS - Hope your shift was a pleasant one. Take care. :)

[Tennsix]

Well, you are right. I can't argue with your comments.

I try to convey that sentiment to the cadets, academy recruits and probationary officers.

[Mr. Security]

Well, you are right. I can't argue with your comments.

I try to convey that sentiment to the cadets, academy recruits and probationary officers.

Thank you. I appreciate your diligence and hard work. You are a great example. :) :)

[N. A. Corbier]

I will not deny there is a badge heavy faction of police officers. However, I would like to think they are the minority.

So would I. That's one of the reasons I say "Refer them to their FOP rep" instead of "file an official complaint" against them. Especially in FOP territory, nobody in the FOP wants a good guy to go down because he started being influenced by some after-hours talk.

[DMS 525]

Thanks for the welcome. I am a member of officer.com. I see some familar screen names here.
Like me? :D

Good to see you in here, Tennsix. As you probably know, my biggest peeve is those cops who try and paint all security people with the same brush. I have had to opportunity to converse with a few LEO's who were willing to listen, and they were suprised to hear what I had to say. They also agreed that if security was better trained and equipped, they could be a very valuable asset in aiding law enforcement agencies in the war against crime.

If more LEO's and agencies were willing to offer advice, information, and instruction to security as opposed to treating them like they were nothing but stupid wannabees and a nuisance, both sides would benefit greatly from the interaction.

I am really pleased to see you show your inquiry and concern. Perhaps this could be the start of something beneficial.

Stay safe out there.

[DMS 525]

1st Watch, in response to a part of your post, about cops working security details: Yes, that does gouge into the private security business. In this state, about the only things I have seen them do that security can't is direct traffic in a non-emergency situation, impound a vehicle themselves, and call in for wants/warrants checks. Aside from that, there isn't much more they do that security couldn't do themselves. I hear on the scanner so much, "Pick up paper for an off-duty officer. Transport for an off-duty officer", and so on. That ties up a unit that could otherwise be on patrol between calls, even tho it is a low priority call.

I have never heard a LEO solicit business from any security client I've worked for, especially to demean us. That's one thing I have to hand to the agencies in my area.

I see you're ex-military. You may or may not be familiar with the Army's Physical Security manual. In it, it states, "A lock is not a seal, and a seal is not a lock." To borrow that with a twist: "A Police Officer is not a Security Officer, and a Security Officer is not a Police Officer." Sort of like comparing a sedan to a pickup truck; although they may share a lot of similarities and get used in a lot of different ways, the bottom line is that one was never meant to do the job of the other.

I've told a few accusatory cops in the past that I was not out to do their job; I have enough of my own tasks related to my mission I have to handle.

In one instance, where someone said he was rudely told to go stay out of the way in front of some people he had been dealing with, basically having the officer demean him in front of those people: I had a situation like that myself, which earned the officer a letter of complaint to his watch commander(he's lucky I didn't contact OPS). He made the decision to arrest those people for interference. Out of concern for my client's liability, as well as to keep him informed, I asked the officer if I could have the information on those people, and the case number. He rudely asked me what for? I told him I also needed to file a report of the incident. He then said,"I'm sorry; I don't work for your company!" WTF was that all about? As I told his WC in that letter, I don't work for the PD either, but that never stops me from giving them information they need, or from being of a service to them. It is simply professional courtesy.

He then asked me what it was I did there. I told him I was security for the entire premises(a bar). I kept order there, made sure no one was stealing from nor damaging property, and in situations such as the one I had, to call in the law if the situation escalated from beyond my scope of authority(which is why I called the PD on that situation). He then said, "Look, I don't mean to be rude, but we have it from here, so why don't you go back to what you were doing?" Although every instinct I had told me to tell that SOB off but good, to include telling him to finish up his business and get the hell out of there, I just walked away and went on about my business. I found out later that the man is nothing but a royal jerk, who won't even cooperate with other police officers(lone wolf). More than one PO on the force I know has plainly said that man is a full blown psycho. I agree.

I always felt that for the most part, I always had a good working relationship with LE agencies in my area, in spite of "those few rotten apples in every barrel."

[N. A. Corbier]

I noticed that, myself. Usually, the ones who give the biggest headache to security officers have IA writeups. There were two police officers who were gunning for the contract on a property I worked. They ingraciated themselves to the client, would sit around in the lobby and watch TV (No patrol requirement for City of Tampa), which would make the client ask the police to execute the functions we were contracted for.

I had to eject someone from the property, and the two officers announced that they were on a short-call across the street (Not on duty), and were unable to assist me. Not so much as key up on the radio to call a sector unit. BUT, they did have enough time to grab a sandwich, a coke, and joke with the client about arresting me if I touched the person I was evicting for drunk and disorderly with threat of violence to the client.

Come to find out from their sergeant and several other officers that they were both on IA writeups for falsification of police reports, excessive force, and ghosting short-call assignments. Something about using an ASP on a drunk, throwing him onto the sidewalk in front of the on-duty cruiser responding, and disappearing. The on-duty cruiser had to write up a John Doe Use of Force, and then put out that he had NO clue who hurt the guy - nobody could prove it was the officers involved.

Nice guys, those two.

[Mr. Security]

Some LEO's will never change their views/attitude towards security. Likewise, security will always have their share of "numbskulls" to detract from our image. Just chalk it up to the human factor :p

[1stWatch]

I see you're ex-military.

Actually I'm not, but thanks for the compliment :D

[1stWatch]

Something about using an ASP on a drunk, throwing him onto the sidewalk in front of the on-duty cruiser responding, and disappearing. The on-duty cruiser had to write up a John Doe Use of Force, and then put out that he had NO clue who hurt the guy - nobody could prove it was the officers involved.

I have heard of security officers doing the same type of thing. Have you ever encountered that?

[Mr. Security]

A cop who is guilty of larceny, i.e., taking my new handcuffs w/o paying for them. Since Tennsix started this thread and is guilty as charged, I thought I'd give him my biggest gripe.

Sorry guys: "It's still stuck in my craw" :mad:

[S/O245]

I have had nothing bad with LEO's. they respond most of the time pretty quickly. And come by regulary pass by to see if they see me walkin round or driving or sittin in the car. They even told me that is alot of junk when they found out at first i was un armed. They also stop by sometimes to ask if i have seen any suspicious cars in my area. Thats one good thing about S/O's we start to get to know cars that come into the area and see cars that may not belong. I only have one post so im in the same area every night. They help me and i help them.