How do you LPO's carry your cuffs?

[ghostguy6]

I just got hired, finished my training today but i ran into one problem. my cuffs were always noticable. Even will loose baggy pants the outline of my cuffs would show in my pockets. Im also a fairly tall guy so finding shirts long and loose enough to cover a standard cuff case is a problem. This has me wondering how you carry your cuffs to keep them discreat? Btw Im using S&W M100's and I also have a pair of chained ASP's . Any decent low profile holsters you can reccommend?

[Chucky]

I could be wrong on this but I didn't think LPs have the authority to arrest only to detain. Detaining does not involve cuffs or a weapon..

[Nauticus]

I have an open-carry case that goes on my belt, and I'm far from a tall person, so I have plenty of shirts that cover the belt line.

I know you can buy special clothing that actually has concealed carry pockets, and that sort of thing. 5.11 Tactical Gear has some plainclothes loss prevention gear. Maybe your back pocket, where your wallet goes?

[Nauticus]

I could be wrong on this but I didn't think LPs have the authority to arrest only to detain. Detaining does not involve cuffs or a weapon..

Most places allow LPOs to arrest using Citizen's Arrest statutes. That is an arrest, and can involve handcuffs if your state/province allows the use of restraints.

[bigdog]

I could be wrong on this but I didn't think LPs have the authority to arrest only to detain. Detaining does not involve cuffs or a weapon..
Who definition is that? Almost every court case or news story Ive seen where a security officer or LPo has detained involved handcuffing an offender. I was taught in the state course here in Florida handcuffs were allowed to be used when detaining or making a citizens arrest. As well as many case laws back up that notion.

[ExecPro]

I'm not sure why you can't find shirts long enough to conceal your cuffs (especially if you are wearing them on your back waistline).

I'm 6"5" 235 lbs (long torso too), built solid and don't have any issues finding shirts that fit me.

Because I have more of an athletic build, I can still wear large size shirts, but sometimes I wear X-Large. Either way, both size shirts fall well below my waistline.

I think you are being paranoid. I doubt it is that noticeable. I do EP and if I wanted to carry my weapon on my back waistline I can can conceal it just fine. Unless you are using cuffs the size of grapefruits, I don't think this should be an issue.

[souperdave]

I could be wrong on this but I didn't think LPs have the authority to arrest only to detain. Detaining does not involve cuffs or a weapon..

Soooooo, what does "detaining" involve exactly?:confused:

Years ago I got tired of sitting on detainees, so I went back to cuffing. Looks better from a spectator point of view!:cool:

[souperdave]

I've always carried mine in my back pocket. Even when I'm sportin' the business-casual motif.

[Jessica]

If you are a taller guy, go to Casual Male store or Gap online sells shirts that are "Tall". My boyfriend ihas a few "medium - tall shirts" that he wears. He shops at Gap.com or at the Casual Male XL store to get shirts.

Are you a floor walker or camera room? If camera, who cares if they see cuffs?

[ghostguy6]

Im a floor walker. Personally I didnt think the cuffs were that noticable but the people I was training with said they noticed them a few times. Im thinking it because I was wearing a newer pair of jeans that werent fully broken in yet.

And yes we are certified to carry and use restraints when making an arrest. ;) In Alberta even detaining someone can be concerted to be a mental arrest.
Ill check around some taller t shirts online, maybe I can find something that will fit in with the clientel of the store.

[HotelSecurity]

To canadian readers: Remember there is no simply "detaining". If you are not allowing someone to leave, you have made an arrest.

Working in an hotel my case does not show under my suit. For those of you working in stores & are less formally dressed, how about a fanny pack?

[zm88]

ghost, I used a case by gould and goodrich, wore a tee and either a jersey or short sleeve button up over it. 5.11 offers the conceal carry pants, I own 2 pairs, the concealed pockets are good if you dont need your cuffs in a hurry in my experience. Bullet 50 (http://www.bullet50online.com/) they have a good pair of concealed pants. Good luck with the job!

[Chucky]

Soooooo, what does "detaining" involve exactly?:confused:

Years ago I got tired of sitting on detainees, so I went back to cuffing. Looks better from a spectator point of view!:cool:

This subject has been run through here before and I got the impression that for a person to handcuff someone they must be at minimum of an SPO other wise if a citizen restrains another person their freedom is taken away and the handcuffer could be charged with kidnapping. Especially if the Security/Lp can't produce concrete evidence that a crime has been committed.

[Curtis Baillie]

Chucky - All states have what's called "Merchant Statutes." All of the statutes allow for a retailer to detain with probable or reasonable cause. Retailers are allowed to use reasonable force to detain - this includes handcuffs. My issue is with retailers who have no use of force or handcuffing policies and look the other way when their their LP staffs operate without supervision or direction. I always allowed my LP staff to use handcuffs, but only when trained and documentation placed in their personnel file. There were very strict guidelines and policies for this.

[psycosteve]

I just got hired, finished my training today but i ran into one problem. my cuffs were always noticable. Even will loose baggy pants the outline of my cuffs would show in my pockets. Im also a fairly tall guy so finding shirts long and loose enough to cover a standard cuff case is a problem. This has me wondering how you carry your cuffs to keep them discreat? Btw Im using S&W M100's and I also have a pair of chained ASP's . Any decent low profile holsters you can reccommend?

If you look at the design of most cuff cases there kinda bulky. If I was worried about a showing my cuffs I would find a long enough shirt ( big and tall is a good place to start no pun intended ) and do away with the case all together . by placing one side of the cuffs between your belt and let the other side dangle you have somewhat secured your cuffs and have reduced your identifiable out line a bunch . I would just wear an unbuttoned print shirt with a tee shirt showing or just wearing a jersey would work as well .

[Chucky]

Chucky - All states have what's called "Merchant Statutes." All of the statutes allow for a retailer to detain with probable or reasonable cause. Retailers are allowed to use reasonable force to detain - this includes handcuffs. My issue is with retailers who have no use of force or handcuffing policies and look the other way when their their LP staffs operate without supervision or direction. I always allowed my LP staff to use handcuffs, but only when trained and documentation placed in their personnel file. There were very strict guidelines and policies for this.

Thanks Curtis. I've seen to many videos of LPs cuffing folks so i figured there had to be something to it.

[N. A. Corbier]

I know it sounds weird, but look for the larger PDA cases, as well. The PDA case looks like a PDA, not a pair of handcuffs.

[Nauticus]

Im a floor walker. Personally I didnt think the cuffs were that noticable but the people I was training with said they noticed them a few times. Im thinking it because I was wearing a newer pair of jeans that werent fully broken in yet.

And yes we are certified to carry and use restraints when making an arrest. ;) In Alberta even detaining someone can be concerted to be a mental arrest.
Ill check around some taller t shirts online, maybe I can find something that will fit in with the clientel of the store.

Well, there's no such thing as "detaining" in Canada, if you're a private citizen.

Anytime you restrict or limit somebody else's freedom (or block them from "going about their normal business") in Canada, it's an arrest. And yes, when you arrest (in Canada or the US) you should i]know[/i] that the person you are arresting has committed an [b]indictable offence. If he didn't, you just committed a false arrest.

[HotelSecurity]

Well, there's no such thing as "detaining" in Canada, if you're a private citizen.

Anytime you restrict or limit somebody else's freedom (or block them from "going about their normal business") in Canada, it's an arrest. And yes, when you arrest (in Canada or the US) you should i]know[/i] that the person you are arresting has committed an [b]indictable offence. If he didn't, you just committed a false arrest.

In Canada it does not have to be an indictable offence if you are the owner or his agent (eg Security Officer) if it occured on or to your property & you witnessed it.

Curtis - In Canada we can not arrest for reasonable & probable grounds unless the person is fleeing someone who can arrest them. The police can. This is the difference in our arrest powers & theirs.

[Curtis Baillie]

I understand the differences between the United States and Canada - I have retail clients in Canada. The discussion was about what is allowed in the U.S.

[souperdave]

This subject has been run through here before and I got the impression that for a person to handcuff someone they must be at minimum of an SPO other wise if a citizen restrains another person their freedom is taken away and the handcuffer could be charged with kidnapping. Especially if the Security/Lp can't produce concrete evidence that a crime has been committed.

You have been impressionaly underinformed. Most, if not all, states have merchant statutes that cover just this scenario.....as long as one is acting as the agent of a retailer and has the reasonable belief that a crime (boosting) has occurred, then they may take reasonable and prudent action with the intent to recover the merchandise and/or refer the suspected perpetrator to the friendly neighborhood Law Enforcement agency for prosecution.

Merchant statutes also hold harmless the agent(s) in the event that there has been no boosting, but the agent(s) acted reasonably in the effort to attain the determination.

Of course! That never happens 'cause the wrongly accused almost always get an ambulance chaser to sue the snot out of the retailer.

In addition to statutes, some states, or the county po-po in my instance, lincenses security officers (of which LPO falls into that realm) and provides them with authority to detain/arrest/sit-on(...etc...) suspected evil-doers!

For example, my license clearly states that "....the licensee has the same powers as a police officer while on duty during the course of their employment and within their designated area..."

Otherwise I'd be looking at close to a thousand counts of kidnapping stemming from all my years in the LP biz!:eek::eek::eek:

[ExecPro]

In Kenya you can just cut of their hands....oops, Kenyian law doesn't apply here does it?

[ExecPro]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, because I've never worked as an LP employee.

I understand the authority granted in the Merchant statutes, but there seems to be some loop-holes. Yes, the merchant can make the arrest, but I don't think the alleged arrestee is obligated to comply. So a person who fights with an LP or merchant couldn't really be resisting arrest, correct (perhaps LE would just charge him with assault)?

But if I'm walking out of a store, and a merchant/LP tells me to stop, I'm really not obligated to comply. Yes, he would then be allowed to use physical force to "drag me in" and arrest me, but risking physical harm to himself or the alleged theif hardly seems worth it for petty things like CD's/video games/Mp3.

Just curious, don't know much about it....

[Curtis Baillie]

Here's what this thread is supposed to be about - How do you LPO's carry your cuffs?

[Steve354]

Mate if you look on officer.com you will fine some stores there where you can fine kinds of things it just might help you. Here is two for you chief and officerstore.com Good lucky

[Nauticus]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, because I've never worked as an LP employee.

I understand the authority granted in the Merchant statutes, but there seems to be some loop-holes. Yes, the merchant can make the arrest, but I don't think the alleged arrestee is obligated to comply. So a person who fights with an LP or merchant couldn't really be resisting arrest, correct (perhaps LE would just charge him with assault)?

But if I'm walking out of a store, and a merchant/LP tells me to stop, I'm really not obligated to comply. Yes, he would then be allowed to use physical force to "drag me in" and arrest me, but risking physical harm to himself or the alleged theif hardly seems worth it for petty things like CD's/video games/Mp3.

Just curious, don't know much about it....

The way I've been taught it, is that even if the arrest is unlawfull, it is the courts' place to determine that, not yours. So based on that, you would not be legally allowed, in any way, to resist an arrest. Once an arrest occurs, the reasons for it no longer matter until the court decides to determine whether or not it was legal.

[Steve354]

Has an outsider I fine this thread every intresting. When I was working has a securtiy officer, under the fire arms act I could not carry cuffs. Has to the thread I would wear a pair of cargo trouers.

[bigdog]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, because I've never worked as an LP employee.

I understand the authority granted in the Merchant statutes, but there seems to be some loop-holes. Yes, the merchant can make the arrest, but I don't think the alleged arrestee is obligated to comply. So a person who fights with an LP or merchant couldn't really be resisting arrest, correct (perhaps LE would just charge him with assault)?

But if I'm walking out of a store, and a merchant/LP tells me to stop, I'm really not obligated to comply. Yes, he would then be allowed to use physical force to "drag me in" and arrest me, but risking physical harm to himself or the alleged theif hardly seems worth it for petty things like CD's/video games/Mp3.

Just curious, don't know much about it....

In florida we have resisting a merchant which is a misdemeanor, if you take any action that prevents the merchant from detaining you . you get hit with that charge.

[souperdave]

Forgive my ignorance on this topic, because I've never worked as an LP employee.

I understand the authority granted in the Merchant statutes, but there seems to be some loop-holes. Yes, the merchant can make the arrest, but I don't think the alleged arrestee is obligated to comply. So a person who fights with an LP or merchant couldn't really be resisting arrest, correct (perhaps LE would just charge him with assault)?

But if I'm walking out of a store, and a merchant/LP tells me to stop, I'm really not obligated to comply. Yes, he would then be allowed to use physical force to "drag me in" and arrest me, but risking physical harm to himself or the alleged theif hardly seems worth it for petty things like CD's/video games/Mp3.

Just curious, don't know much about it....

In my neighborhood, you fight with us during our attempt to apprehend you and you instantly move into either 1st or 2nd degree robbery, either one upgrades you to felony status.

You can get a resisting with violence add-on also!

[souperdave]

The way I've been taught it, is that even if the arrest is unlawfull, it is the courts' place to determine that, not yours. So based on that, you would not be legally allowed, in any way, to resist an arrest. Once an arrest occurs, the reasons for it no longer matter until the court decides to determine whether or not it was legal.

Arguing semantics a bit? The initial contact is either a reasonable suspicion or probable cause sorta thing.

AND, "Once an arrest occurs, the reasons for it no longer matter until the court decides to determine whether or not it was legal." The reason(s) for arrest VERY MUCH MATTER at the time of arrest, and AFTERWARDS!

The reasons for an arrest matter from the initial contact, then all the way to courts and conviction/dismissal

[Nauticus]

Arguing semantics a bit? The initial contact is either a reasonable suspicion or probable cause sorta thing.

AND, "Once an arrest occurs, the reasons for it no longer matter until the court decides to determine whether or not it was legal." The reason(s) for arrest VERY MUCH MATTER at the time of arrest, and AFTERWARDS!

The reasons for an arrest matter from the initial contact, then all the way to courts and conviction/dismissal

You apparently completely missed my point. Of course the reasons of an arrest matter, but once an arrest occurs, it's not up to the suspect to determine whether it was a valid arrest or not. That will be determined at the court proceedings, and not at the point of an arrest.

In Canada, you cannot arrest for "reasonable suspicion of probable cause". They either did or did not either a) commit and indictable offense, or b) committed an offense of the Criminal Code on, or in relation to, the property that you are representing.

[dhawk52]

I could be wrong on this but I didn't think LPs have the authority to arrest only to detain. Detaining does not involve cuffs or a weapon..

I have worked loss prevention in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas. I have also carried and used cuffs in all four states.



as far as the original question, I usually carried them in a back pocket. If they were noticeable, I would hide them behind a dummy wallet (left my wallet at home or in vehicle so as not to lose it, in a heated situation).

[BailBondInvestigator]

Loose in my back pocket. My shirt covers 'em easily and never lost a pair yet. A Sheriff deputy almost left with 'em once though...