CO Det. in buildg with no bdrm.

[Chief Red Beef]

I cannot seem to find a definative reference to whether or not CO detectors would be required in this particular instance.
The buiding in question is a standalone building on a residential piece of property.
It has a squash court, gym, bowling alley, Massage rm., bathrooms, living rm., mech rms., but no bedrooms.

I sold the job with CO detectors but am now getting some heat from the architects who want them gone.
Does anyone out there know for sure if they are required by code or not?
I will, of course, consult with the AHJ but am trying to be a little prepared before hand.

[integrator97]

No, they're not required by national codes. So unless it's state or local, you shouldn't be required to have them.

But I hate architects. :mad:

Damn, does that make me a racist? :D

[FireRanger]

Does the building in question use gas for anything (heat, cooking, etc)? Secondly I say tell the pencil (or in this case maybe mouse) pushers to knock it off. They need to understand that just because their is no "bedroom" doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have it in there. It's a life safety issue and I can tell you from personal experience as a firefighter that a lot of times CO detectors save lives of people who are wide awake and active. They never realized that CO was leaking from whatever the source (a few times it was a car in the garage warming up) and a level that of was of concern. CO is a silent killer as you can't smell it and if you are by yourself may not be able to recognize the signs of CO poisoning. Also talk to your client, perhaps you can have them on your side if you explain to them the benefits of having these detectors in place the whole pro vs con thing. If the building owner wants it, not much can be said from design team.

[dbs10]

Does the building in question use gas for anything (heat, cooking, etc)? Secondly I say tell the pencil (or in this case maybe mouse) pushers to knock it off. They need to understand that just because their is no "bedroom" doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have it in there. It's a life safety issue and I can tell you from personal experience as a firefighter that a lot of times CO detectors save lives of people who are wide awake and active. They never realized that CO was leaking from whatever the source (a few times it was a car in the garage warming up) and a level that of was of concern. CO is a silent killer as you can't smell it and if you are by yourself may not be able to recognize the signs of CO poisoning. Also talk to your client, perhaps you can have them on your side if you explain to them the benefits of having these detectors in place the whole pro vs con thing. If the building owner wants it, not much can be said from design team.

I agree. As a Fire Prevention Specialist and a firefighter also, these people need to crawl back into there hole and be educated as to Life Safety issues. This is something that should be a required corse when going to school to become an architect. They are probably very mis informed, like 90 % of the population is about residential fire sprinklers. Carbon monoxide detectors will not hurt anything. My question is, Do they have smoke detectors or is he fighting this to because there is no bedrooms?

[integrator97]

I agree. As a Fire Prevention Specialist and a firefighter also, these people need to crawl back into there hole and be educated as to Life Safety issues. This is something that should be a required corse when going to school to become an architect. They are probably very mis informed, like 90 % of the population is about residential fire sprinklers. Carbon monoxide detectors will not hurt anything. My question is, Do they have smoke detectors or is he fighting this to because there is no bedrooms?

Architects and interior designers always want as little "clutter" in their masterpieces as possible. Since this building has all the it does on a residential property, this is probably high end & fancy. It doesn't matter if it's 8" crown or timbers, they don't want anything detracting from it. In our end of the business we deal with it all the time. I won't be caught in a lie telling them they have to have something they don't, but I'll explain to the end user / customer why they should. And I'll do what I can. I've found smoke detectors in black, I've taken detectors apart so they could be painted (when it wouldn't inhibit operation).

[Silva Consultants]

Architects and interior designers always want as little "clutter" in their masterpieces as possible. Since this building has all the it does on a residential property, this is probably high end & fancy. It doesn't matter if it's 8" crown or timbers, they don't want anything detracting from it. In our end of the business we deal with it all the time. I won't be caught in a lie telling them they have to have something they don't, but I'll explain to the end user / customer why they should. And I'll do what I can. I've found smoke detectors in black, I've taken detectors apart so they could be painted (when it wouldn't inhibit operation).

One thing I have found to be helpful is to get involved with the architect pro-actively - very early in the project rather than at the tail-end. I have found that if you meet with the architect upfront, explain the need to have the security or life safety device in the room, and discuss the design parameters (mounting height, spacing, etc.), most architects are willing to be cooperative and even helpful. I often bring samples of several different models/colors of devices, and then have the architect pick which one he or she likes best. (The funny thing is, no matter which device the architect chooses, he or she probably would have rejected that very same device had I proposed it without seeking their input. :))

We need to keep in mind that the architects are constantly being bombarded by each of the various consultants on the project (mechanical, electrical, plumbing, lighting, security, fire prevention, etc.), each with their own agenda, and the architect needs to try and keep everyone happy while at the same time meeting the needs of the owner. If the building is to be built within budget and on schedule, everyone involved usually needs to compromise something.

As the security consultant on a project, I act as an advocate for a building design that is good from a security standpoint. I don't always get everything I want, but just as long as the architect and owner are aware of the trade-offs and what they may be giving up, I feel I have done my job.

[integrator97]

Silva, or anyone, Have you sold any of the Bosch flush mount smoke detectors? They're a great idea, inconspicuous. But gawdawful expensive, and only Bosch has them.

[Silva Consultants]

Silva, or anyone, Have you sold any of the Bosch flush mount smoke detectors? They're a great idea, inconspicuous. But gawdawful expensive, and only Bosch has them.

No, I don't sell or install stuff - only specify it. When I started out as a consultant, I used to design and specify fire alarm systems in addition to security systems. After a few years, I found that I couldn't really keep up with both, so stopped doing fire alarm completely. Those Bosch flush-mounted smoke detectors do look pretty cool though. I'm sure architects would love them.