Body armour-help!

[bigshotceo]

I'm a COMPLETE newbie when it comes to body armour so please help me out;

I'm switching security companies, and the company I'm working for is requiring me to wear an external bulletproof vest (level II suggested). I've seen terms like "carrier", "trauma plates", etc.. but I'm not sure what exactly they are. From what I can tell, a vest is simply trauma plates that are inserted into an internal or external carrier. Is that correct?

[Tennsix]

First, the vest is not bullet proof. A more accurate label would be bullet resistant. The vest protects from any type of blunt force such as a ball bat, steering wheel, fist, etc. Some vests are rated for edged weapons and other aren’t.

The vest is comprised of panels made of Kevlar (plastic). The shock plates are made of metal, ceramic or a similar material. Most vests have a sternal shocl plate and some have a sternal and dorsal plate. The carrier is the is the actual vest; the garment in which the panels and plates are placed.

The vest are very expensive. The one I wear is about $700.00 but I didn’t have to pay for it.

[bigshotceo]

So if I understand you correctly there are two different types of inserts-panels, and plates? I'm guessing that the panels go on the front and back and the plates protect the vitals?

[Charger]

In essence, yes... Although most vests only have a slot on the front for a trauma plate...

Did I read that correctly, that they want you to wear an EXTERNAL vest? As in, outside your shirt, similar to a military flak jacket? What kind of site is this?

[bigshotceo]

In essence, yes... Although most vests only have a slot on the front for a trauma plate...

Did I read that correctly, that they want you to wear an EXTERNAL vest? As in, outside your shirt, similar to a military flak jacket? What kind of site is this?

That's right, external. Mainly for special events involving drunken individuals.

[Charger]

Wow... must be a pretty bad area if they're worried about drunks opening fire.. ;)

I've never looked into the external vests, myself... But my understanding is the panels are basically the same.. Just a different carrier...

Be sure to look into vests that have wrap-around (aka side protection) panels, rather than just the front & back... If you're standing in a bladed stance when talking to someone, and they open fire, you dont want the gap in your protection pointing right at them...

Only other advice I can give is to shop around... Because these things ARE expensive... But enough searching can give great rewards... I picked up my Level III vest for $479... Still a good chunk of change, but better than the $1000+ some places wanted..

[bigshotceo]

Wow... must be a pretty bad area if they're worried about drunks opening fire.. ;)

I've never looked into the external vests, myself... But my understanding is the panels are basically the same.. Just a different carrier...

Be sure to look into vests that have wrap-around (aka side protection) panels, rather than just the front & back... If you're standing in a bladed stance when talking to someone, and they open fire, you dont want the gap in your protection pointing right at them...

Only other advice I can give is to shop around... Because these things ARE expensive... But enough searching can give great rewards... I picked up my Level III vest for $479... Still a good chunk of change, but better than the $1000+ some places wanted..

I'm not really worried about drunks opening fire (this is Ottawa, after all..), but we've had problems where they've used beer bottles as melee/stabbing weapons.

[Tennsix]

There was a woman here that made external carriers from old uniform shirts. They were sharp. I never got one but now I wish I had.

[N. A. Corbier]

A company in Florida uses external carriers for the intimidation factor. Since he's in Canada, if I remember correctly, this will also make him look more like RCMP if they're still wearing the external carriers. Drunk being less likely to play because RCMP might hit em with pepper spray.

Basically, what you are doing is having to buy a "tactical" carrier. You can either buy your standard concealable armor, then a seperate "tactical" carrier from that manufacturer, and switch them out. Or, you can buy a Protech or Safariland tactical carrier vest.

The problem with most of the tactical carrier vests stocked in catalog shops is that they are marked POLICE or SHERIFF, and therefore you have to produce sworn ID to purchase them.

As far as the trauma plate, it is either designed to defeat edged weapons (hard plate made of zinc), or it is designed to soften the blow of incoming fire over the sternum (soft pack made of kevlar).

Tactical carriers may or may not support them.

If you are NOT going to be shot at, look at Correctional Stab Vests, which will protect you better from edged weapon/shiv attack. The beer bottle, btw, is a shiv.

[HotelSecurity]

I'm not really worried about drunks opening fire (this is Ottawa, after all..), but we've had problems where they've used beer bottles as melee/stabbing weapons.

Do a lot of Security wear vests in Ottawa? The company I work for owns the Plaza de la Chaudiere in Gatineau & a few buildings in downtown Ottawa. The last time I was there for a business trip I noticed that a lot of Security seemed to be wearing them. Here in Montreal they are still rare & we are definitely a more violent city than you!

[ff000525]

Don't know where you're planning on buying from but these sites will get you a good idea on prices (in USD, not loonies or whatever you use up there :) J/K) the second site explains armor pretty well too!

http://botac.com/bodyarmor.html
www.bulletproofme.com

[Tennsix]

Don't know where you're planning on buying from but these sites will get you a good idea on prices (in USD, not loonies or whatever you use up there :) J/K) the second site explains armor pretty well too!

http://botac.com/bodyarmor.html
www.bulletproofme.com
I had nothing but problems from Botac. They screw up orders, don't answer the phone, don't ship in a timely manner, and it took them six months to respond to my BBB complaint. They have a BBB "F" rating.

Botac BBB Page (http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=131170 95)

[ff000525]

Thanks for the heads up Tennsix, I was just gonna order a flashlight from them.......

[N. A. Corbier]

Buy armor from Quartermaster, 200 bucks for Level II. (Level II is the "lightest" armor level they sell, btw.)

[HotelSecurity]

http://www.911gear.ca/ This company is in Toronto.

[Bill Warnock]

First, the vest is not bullet proof. A more accurate label would be bullet resistant. The vest protects from any type of blunt force such as a ball bat, steering wheel, fist, etc. Some vests are rated for edged weapons and other aren’t.

The vest is comprised of panels made of Kevlar (plastic). The shock plates are made of metal, ceramic or a similar material. Most vests have a sternal shocl plate and some have a sternal and dorsal plate. The carrier is the is the actual vest; the garment in which the panels and plates are placed.

The vest are very expensive. The one I wear is about $700.00 but I didn’t have to pay for it.
Tennsix:
You hit the nail directly on the head. Not every vest stops everything.
Years ago, the officer was was not killed by the projectile, rather blunt force trauma. The ceramic surface carried the force into the body. There was a learning curve, but it was surmounted.
Assurance must be obtained the vest was tested and pasted by a ballistic testing laboratory accredited to NIST. Another source straight out of the gate, is H.P. White Laboratories in Maryland. They wrote most of the testing and accrediation standards for both military and law enforcement after US Army Natick got out of that line of work.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[darrell]

I know that Chicago PD, RCMP and some OPP wear the newer carriers that look like uniform shirts. Also the federal security guards and the Deputy Marshalls at our small fed court all wear the uniform external carriers.

[Arff312]

i actually have a level 3 vest that i m getting rid of. it is only 5 months old and in excellent comdition. I recently got another new vest and am not using this one any more. I am willing to let it go for 200.00 plus shipping. if interested let me know thanks.

[EMTGuard]

I don't know any security officers locally wearing body armor.

[N. A. Corbier]

Which is sad, really. We get shot at just the same, look at the EDI Officer in Orlando who was just shot.

[darrell]

If you want good armor at a good price look into the Galls, Streichers or other uniform companies that have their own brand of armor.

Now some will say don't trust Striechers or Galls BUT all their armor is made for them by Point Blank.

Point Blank is a reputable company who gained a ton of business after Second Chance's fiasco with Zylon...

And buying Galls and Streichers brand will save you between $100-250

[Mr. Security]

I know what you're saying, BUT buying body armor is not the time to shop for the cheapest deal. I would rather pay a premium and go with a top-of-the-line name brand. :)

[darrell]

I know what you're saying, BUT buying body armor is not the time to shop for the cheapest deal. I would rather pay a premium and go with a top-of-the-line name brand. :)


Point Blank is one of the top 3 companies. They make the armor for the 2 mentioned companies for a lesser price, then they stamp Galls or Striechers on it. Its the same vest you'd pay 500-1000 for just a different name

[Mr. Security]

... Its the same vest you'd pay 500-1000 for just a different name

I hope so. After all, you're betting your life on it.

[N. A. Corbier]

Here's the deal about armor.

You can buy a Galls' vest at Level IIIA for 600, or you can buy a Safariland Matrix or Zero-G vest for 1,500.

What are you paying for? Density of the material. The cheaper vests use a heavier material (Usually SpectraShield/Kevlar Laminate) instead of the uberthin/uberlight materials. You're also paying for a "better" carrier platform with bells and whistles.

If its certified to Level IIIA, it'll stop rounds to that level, no matter how much you pay for it. The issue, is will you wear the cheaper vest? Its hotter, heavier, and the carrier isn't as flexible.

[Mr. Security]

Here's the deal about armor.

You can buy a Galls' vest at Level IIIA for 600, or you can buy a Safariland Matrix or Zero-G vest for 1,500.

What are you paying for? Density of the material. The cheaper vests use a heavier material (Usually SpectraShield/Kevlar Laminate) instead of the uberthin/uberlight materials. You're also paying for a "better" carrier platform with bells and whistles.

If its certified to Level IIIA, it'll stop rounds to that level, no matter how much you pay for it. The issue, is will you wear the cheaper vest? Its hotter, heavier, and the carrier isn't as flexible.

Thanks N.A. That makes sense. :)

[darrell]

A galls Level IIIA is the same weight, thickness and density as its counterpart with a different name the Point Blank IIIA..

Then again I wore a $1200 Second Chance vest..

[N. A. Corbier]

I knew guys who wore Point Blank, they only had one complaint with it: Trauma Plate pocket wasn't 8x10. I asked them if they realized that it was a trauma plate pocket, and not a ceramic plate pocket. :)

[Echos13]

So whats the average life span of body armor now? It use to be about four or five years depending on the use and enviorment. At least in my days it was. I went threw about three then in a 14 year span. The last one came out of my pocket due to budget issues. I can wear one with my new job as a CPO but they don't supply them unless you are working a BOA account who gives them to the BPOs.

[N. A. Corbier]

I think its 5 years. I've heard people say that "vests work just find after expiration!" but yeah, I can see the issues of issuing expired vests. When our vests expire, they're going into the door panels of the cars.

[Echos13]

Five years is average it seems. But yea it's worth investing in a lighter stronger series. The cheap heavy ones are OK but after a few hours on foot in it I bet it's like knight armor. Door panels, not a bad idea. Not that my POV needs them but then it's a new world out there.

[N. A. Corbier]

The armor in the car panel isn't my brainstorm. :) I read it in a magazine, and it made sense.

[bigshotceo]

In case anyone's curious, I went with Vestfriend stab-proof armour. Good, cheap (around USD$200), and relatively comfortable.

[N. A. Corbier]

In case anyone's curious, I went with Vestfriend stab-proof armour. Good, cheap (around USD$200), and relatively comfortable.

What stab rating is it, and does it offer any ballistic protection?

[Gumshoe]

I know that Chicago PD, RCMP and some OPP wear the newer carriers that look like uniform shirts. Also the federal security guards and the Deputy Marshalls at our small fed court all wear the uniform external carriers.

A lot of the guys on my department (Railroad Police) utilize this type of carrier. It helps with those hot summer days and you can just open up your sides and vent out.

I have Gator Hawk, it was department issued.


If you can get your vest custom fitted....man does it ever make a difference!