Private EP Training vs Goverment EP Training

[cbaxter]

Are there any private compaines that give the same level of training as goverment courses? Are there private courses that are better then goverment courses?

[Tactical_Hat]

This is State Department level training, without the State Dept. certification. Very good reputation. Very expensive:
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1021002173/m/6021011283

[Minneapolis Security]

This is State Department level training, without the State Dept. certification. Very good reputation. Very expensive:
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1021002173/m/6021011283

That link just takes you to a user name/password page.

[Tactical_Hat]

That link just takes you to a user name/password page.Oops!!!! Sorry everyone, forgot you had to be a member. On the plus side, LightFighter is an awesome reference for shooters and protection-type resources. I recommend signing-up, but pay close attention to the regulations. It's big-boy rules over there!
Here to sign-up: http://lightfighter.net/eve

[jtwestern]

Hat,

Why not just post the company instead of making everyone go over to another forum?

[Tactical_Hat]

Hat,

Why not just post the company instead of making everyone go over to another forum?jtwestern,

I had the same thought. I've tried several ways to link ATS without going through Lightfighter to no avail. They're an exclusive group over there, not that I think that's a strike against them. You just really have to know what you're talking about, or don't talk at all because they'll brutally call you out. Not a place for the thin skinned! You can learn so much just by lurking.

And to the original point, I guess ATS just doesn't need the free advertising away from Lightfighter. Their classes stay booked regardless.

[Charlie Fox]

In the civillian courses I've taken there is a lot of "run and gun" in the cirriculum. Some of them forget that removing the principal from the kill zone is the first and foremost priority - not laying down "rolling thunder" (I swear one class I went to called it this:rolleyes:) with cool automatic toys; which most of us will never use again. While weapon use is part of EP it is not the end all/be all.

One of the best classes I took was a short two day series on securing different building types...very boring - much like EP:)

[Nauticus]

In the civillian courses I've taken there is a lot of "run and gun" in the cirriculum. Some of them forget that removing the principal from the kill zone is the first and foremost priority - not laying down "rolling thunder" (I swear one class I went to called it this:rolleyes:) with cool automatic toys; which most of us will never use again. While weapon use is part of EP it is not the end all/be all.

One of the best classes I took was a short two day series on securing different building types...very boring - much like EP:)

Well said.

The majority of EP is the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Conducting advances on locations, securing buildings, basically trying to know what's going to happen before it does, and have emergency plans if it doesn't. Private or public, this is the sort of thing your course should focus on.

Having a solid knowledge and skillset with firearms is obviously a good thing, but your job isn't to neutralize the enemy. It's instead to merely get the principal (client) to safety, and keep him there. You can be the best at firearms in the world, and if an assailant is standing in a crowd of people, you can't return fire.

[cbaxter]

jtwestern,

I had the same thought. I've tried several ways to link ATS without going through Lightfighter to no avail. They're an exclusive group over there, not that I think that's a strike against them. You just really have to know what you're talking about, or don't talk at all because they'll brutally call you out. Not a place for the thin skinned! You can learn so much just by lurking.

And to the original point, I guess ATS just doesn't need the free advertising away from Lightfighter. Their classes stay booked regardless.

What is ATS?

[Tactical_Hat]

What is ATS?Firearms training and tactical gear. Quality on both levels.

[cbaxter]

is there a website?

[jtwestern]

See above.

I'm a member over there. I agree that you can get dogpiled on if you blow it. I've found that those "special" training companies sometimes lack substance. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses.

If you want a private school that trains well, I would refer you to:

Steele Foundation
ESI
Oates

Those are top notch programs.

[tanko]

Executive protection has many different meanings in my opinion. If you're looking for something similar to US Secret Service in developed countries, then Steele Foundation is the way to go from what I've heard if you can afford it.

If you want to learn how to protect individuals in a low profile, high risk environment, in an undeveloped country I highly recommend Olive Group. Olive Group will provide training that is similar to Department of State's WPPS standards, and they do all the training with very qualified instructors. Another company I recommend is SCG International, and I'm planning on taking some classes from them. Olive and SCG, in the long run is more affordable in my opinion.

If you want high speed, high visibility training up to snuff with WPPS go with HDSOC, US Training Center, just to name a couple.

ATS has a very interesting background when it comes to providing security services to governments, especially in Somalia.

[RavaSecMgt]

Are there any private compaines that give the same level of training as goverment courses? Are there private courses that are better then goverment courses?

GOOD private courses are extremely costly.. i mean prices are insane.
If you are pro,that needs training for the pro,my suggestion use "Morrigan solutions international" (UK certification but training in Syria,as far as i remember) or "vympel arsenal" (Russian federation)
Both are extremely professional and are really recommended.

Just if you will search for CP training providers avoid IBA ! AVOID ! AVOID ! AVOID ! whatever company you will choose , where ever you will do your training do your research first. And make sure you are trained by pro... Not by somebody ho says he was a pro.. Or served half worlds special forces.. :eek:

[Nauticus]

I graduated at Executive Security International (ESI). It's a very long program based on proactive EP, rather than reactive EP. It's based on the philosophies and theories that the US Secret Service has created - advances, threat detection and elimination, etc. Very good course, taught by people who are currently in the field of EP. Very expensive, though, but many consider it the Harvard of Protection schools.

[tanko]

GOOD private courses are extremely costly.. i mean prices are insane.
If you are pro,that needs training for the pro,my suggestion use "Morrigan solutions international" (UK certification but training in Syria,as far as i remember) or "vympel arsenal" (Russian federation)
Both are extremely professional and are really recommended.

Just if you will search for CP training providers avoid IBA ! AVOID ! AVOID ! AVOID ! whatever company you will choose , where ever you will do your training do your research first. And make sure you are trained by pro... Not by somebody ho says he was a pro.. Or served half worlds special forces.. :eek:

In my opinion, good private courses are not necessarily more expensive. I've taken a few excellent courses over the past two years, and they were relatively cheap in my opinion. The most I've ever paid for a course came out to be about $50 an hour (4, 12 hour days), which included airplane ticket, meals, lodging, car rental, training equipment (explosives), and this was with a very well known respected company. For me this was a bargain. The training almost felt like a vacation (kid in a candy store), plus I get to apply to training to get better jobs.

Another thing one must consider when it comes to the pricing of training is firearms. From my understanding, if a course is held in certain states like California, you may not be able to bring your tricked out firearms for training unless you're a resident and the firearms are legal in the state. This may mean you need to rent some firearms from the training company. This may add an additional $100 per day, and you might be required to purchase ammunition from the training company to use their guns which may cost around $0.40+ per bullet. This may add additional $1,500 for the gun rental alone and not including the ammunition for a two week course.

Just something to keep in mind.

[RavaSecMgt]

Well above companies i mentioned aren't charging for guns and Morrigan as far as i remember don't charge lodging or food aether.
Well your course is expensive as well 50 per hour? 4days? 12hrs a day?
so it is 2400$? Over here course is between 2000-5000£ depends on Country/company.
So if we would forget the exchange rate and keep in mind local economy etc.
Prices are "same" more or less.

[jmaccauley]

I graduated at Executive Security International (ESI). It's a very long program based on proactive EP, rather than reactive EP. It's based on the philosophies and theories that the US Secret Service has created - advances, threat detection and elimination, etc. Very good course, taught by people who are currently in the field of EP. Very expensive, though, but many consider it the Harvard of Protection schools.

Who has ever called it the "Harvard of Protection Schools?"

[Nauticus]

Who has ever called it the "Harvard of Protection Schools?"

I've spoken to several protection specialists who agree with the statement. Why? They would argue it's because the bookwork is second to none, the focus is in the right place (most bodyguard schools focus on reaction; ESI focuses on proaction), and the residency program is arguably the best.

No other school offers several hundred hours of advanced bookwork that contributes heavily to the program. ESI does.

[ExecPro]

It's a good EP course, but comparing it to Harvard, a 4-year Ivy League school that has produced countless US Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, and heads of industry is a bit odd.

It's certainly a good EP course. I happen to like Oatman.

[The Security Guru]

DATE/TIMES:

Friday, September 11, 2009
6:00 pm – 9:00 pm: Early registration and Wine & Cheese Networking Reception

Saturday, September 12, 2009 (Includes Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner)

7:00 am – 8:00 am

Registration

8:00 am – 6:00 pm:

Security Advances

Working the Principal

Live Exercises

Sunday, September 13, 2009 (Breakfast & Lunch)

8:00 am – 1200 noon:

Live Exercises

Sponsor:
The Outzen-Spicer Group, LLC.

General Overview:
This 16-hour course provides instruction on developing and implementing a protective services plan or participating as a member of a protection detail. Curriculum addresses such issues as: identifying threats, conducting advance work, transporting the principal; providing protection and site security; and identifying individual team member responsibilities. Instruction includes both classroom lecture and field exercises. Students will conduct practical advances and move the principal during live exercises.

Detailed Overview/Outline

Advance Procedures And Techniques

Working The Principal - Practical Exercises

Motorcades And Route Security

Legal And Practical Aspects

Vehicle Ambush Counterattack

Bomb Threats And Suspicious Objects

Communications And Special Equipment

Major Event Planning

Identification Systems

Security Posts

Threat Assessment

Who Should Attend?
Corporate Security Directors/Managers

Executive/Staff Assistants

Law Enforcement

*ASIS or SHRM member? Call for discount code (559) 583-1329.

Sponsor Background:
The Outzen-Spicer Group, LLC is a security management consulting firm that covers a wide spectrum of sensitive safety and security issues.

Program Manager/Instructor:

Mike Spicer, also known as The Security Guru®, is the CEO of The Outzen-Spicer Group, LLC and has an extensive background in security management. Among the highlights of Spicer’s 27 year law enforcement career with the California Highway Patrol (CHP), he was assigned to the prestigious Protective Services Division Judicial Protection Section in a security management capacity. In that role, he protected state supreme and appellate court justices and has conducted high profile threat management investigations. Spicer is a member of the Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP), a graduate of the CHP’s Protection of Public Officials (POPO) course and the Dignitary Security School sponsored by the California Department of Justice.

Spicer currently serves as a security director for a major healthcare provider in the Central Valley and is an independent security management consultant for organizations in the public and private sectors worldwide. Spicer also serves as a security advisor for the Fresno Grand Opera. You can visit his website at www.thesecurityguru.com

[5423]

Uh, sounds great. Where is this? :rolleyes:

[tacticalguy]

Ummmm... Just guessing but, based on what I can tell... Fresno, CA, 5423.

[The Security Guru]

Clovis, California, just east of Fresno. The course is fully supported and the curriculum is tailored down to core information and practical exercises. The course "mirrors" the California Highway Patrol's Protection of Public Officials (POPO) course.

[jdevino]

I am a former State Department Diplomatic Security Service special agent and although I have had to enroll in and complete an 80 hour course of study in executive protection, no private concern comes close to what the aforementioned federal agency provided in the way of training and experience. That is just the way it is; government has the resources to train their agents where the private sector has the motivation and enthusiam to do their best, and they do a great job. Government has the best training.

[ExecPro]

The private sector has some really great courses and training available for EP. However, rarely (never) do you get RE-OCCURING training like you do in the military/LE/government.

A two-week course is great and can teach you alot, but it takes repetition and continuous training to fully develop your skills.

I don't know to many EP guys that don't have previous military or LE backgrounds, so private EP teams can still bring expertise and professionalism. My team all consists of former military and LE and really have a wealth of experience to contribute.

Unfortunately, I see alot of guys with no real prior experience go pay alot of money for an ESI course (or any other program) and then get surprised when they can't find jobs. Well, hey....its not really an entry level position, ya know?

However, if you take a former solider/LEO with solid experience, then combine it with a program like ESI, you have a pretty good EP guy.

[timorourkecps]

Government vs Private- hands down government will win in conducting an all encompassing protective program. Remember two very important things... the mission and the money.

If the mission is to protect a head of state, ours or others. This is a HUGE responsibility- for the team and the US. Extensive hours- weeks and months go into providing every agent with everything they will need to get the job done correctly. People in the private sector will NEVER have the benefit of other peoples money, i.e., tax dollars.

Where the private sector does excel is because of its weakness. Several of my friends from the service have point out this fact. The private sector has learned to do a whole lot without a large amount of federal resources and money. The other thing is the private sector looks at this service as a business- getting the job done correctly is vital- but you must also do it within budget and reason.

Not every client needs a 4 man detail, because not every client is as recognizable as their last name or their company's name. It is more a difference in mission, money and schools of thought. Who are you protecting and what is the risk?

Example: are you vacationing in Bermuda or Baghdad? Two mission locations that have different risks associated with them. Yet when you conduct a threat analysis you identify possible sources of threat and evaluation their Intent and Capability to cause harm to our assets/protectee.

Categories of Threats

OUTSIDER CRIMINAL:
-Theft of property
-Vandalism
-Violent acts against people

INSIDER:
-Theft of property
-Theft of sensitive information
-Disclosure of sensitive information
-Vandalism
-Violent acts against people

ENVIRONMENTAL:
-Fire
-Hurricanes
-Earthquakes
-Tornados

ACCIDENTAL:
-Fire
-Occupational Accidents
-Vehicle Accident
-Medical/Health Emergency

TERRORIST:
-Bombing
-Kidnapping
-Armed Assault
-Vandalism (arson)
-CBR Attacks
-Nuclear Attacks
-Cyber Attacks

UNIQUE CATEGORIES:
-Mentally Ill Individuals
-Hostile Competitors
-Foreign Intelligence Service
-Foreign Military

Anyone looking to get into the field must have the nuts and bolts of working on a detail- with the compliment of other skills; medical, driving etc.

Sorry for the length of post. Stay Safe

[Patriot1871]

I just graduted from the Executive Protection Insitute in Berryvile Va. Its a great program which lasted 7 days 12 -16 hours of instruction per day. I learned a heck of alot where I've applied it to my current job.
All of the instructors are tops in thier field both private / government. It cost 3490 but it was well worth it! http://personalprotection.com

[FireControlman]

Great thread, the little time I have to explore this site is always worth the time.