joining a union

[careerguy2005]

I am a reporter working on a story about the security industry. I would like to talk to some security guards about how you would feel about joining a union, like the Service Employees International Union, which is actively organizing security guards. Do you think a union will help raise pay and benefits for workers, for instance? Please feel free to email me back at Kris.Maher@wsj.com. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you. Kris

[N. A. Corbier]

I am a reporter working on a story about the security industry. I would like to talk to some security guards about how you would feel about joining a union, like the Service Employees International Union, which is actively organizing security guards. Do you think a union will help raise pay and benefits for workers, for instance? Please feel free to email me back at Kris.Maher@wsj.com. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you. Kris

I suggest googling for the "Department of Homeland Security Police Officer's Union," as they are asserting that under federal law, a security guard union can only consist of security guards. This means that employers do NOT have to deal with the SEIU, or Teamsters, or any other union that does not specifically represent security guards, and security guards only.

I have no problems with Unions, however, where I'm from, organizing a union is a good way to be blacklisted from every security company in the state (Florida.) I knew a few guys who were part of the "Florida Security Officer's Association." They wore FSOA collar brass, and were terminated for "improper uniform," every last one, every company that had them in 1995. I understood that they were blacklisted from working in security for daring to organize a union.

[Watchdog]

I was working security when I was living around Chicago and was required to join the SEIU union in order to have the job.

This is what they provided after taking a big chunk of a low wage security guard's paycheck.

1. No higher pay than any other non-union security guard company
2. Medical benefits...AFTER ONE YEAR EMPLOYMENT
3. No one representing the union ever came forward to us.
4. No contracts ever handed to us or information about contract negotiations.
5. If you were able to call and beg and insist to the hissy-fit associate of the union for a copy of a contract, the one they send you has nothing to do with the company and area you are working in. The contract I was given actually had shown a lesser wage than I was making.

Can you say corrupt union?

[N. A. Corbier]

I was working security when I was living around Chicago and was required to join the SEIU union in order to have the job.

This is what they provided after taking a big chunk of a low wage security guard's paycheck.

1. No higher pay than any other non-union security guard company
2. Medical benefits...AFTER ONE YEAR EMPLOYMENT
3. No one representing the union ever came forward to us.
4. No contracts ever handed to us or information about contract negotiations.
5. If you were able to call and beg and insist to the hissy-fit associate of the union for a copy of a contract, the one they send you has nothing to do with the company and area you are working in. The contract I was given actually had shown a lesser wage than I was making.

Can you say corrupt union?


... And that, ladies and gentleman, is why I was leery of handing over my money to a union when I moved up here. If I wanted to see a contract for my former employer, I asked. They'd print it up, explain it to me, let me READ IT, and then let me ask questions. Why? Because that employee is supposed to follow that contract - why not explain it to them and let them see it for themselves?

I'd rather my employees know what my contracts say, up front, than have them do something that holds me in violation of it, because they didn't know.

[N. A. Corbier]

Anyone note the union name? Also, does anyone know of the Wall Street Journal did a story about SEIU integration into private security?

[Mr. Security]

Anyone note the union name? Also, does anyone know of the Wall Street Journal did a story about SEIU integration into private security?

I don't get it, N.A. What did you find? :confused:

[HotelSecurity]

I think I've posted something about this before. The employees of my hotel were unionized, members of a very militant Quebec union. The owner needed to save money because of a downturn in business. He asked for concessions in the existing contract but was told no. He keep the building & sold the management of the hotel to a friend for a dollar. The new management company went bankrupt 9 months later. All the unionized employees were out of a job. A new management company (owned by another "friend") took over & picked & choose the employees they wanted to hire. Everyone started at 0. They lost all their benefits. The ones that were not rehired picketed in front of the hotel for 3 years. I'm told the owner made the union an offer but it was refused because they were afraid that other hotels would do the same thing. Some departments were outsourced. After 3 years an agreement was made to take back the picketers that had not found other jobs except since the restaurant, bar & banquet salons were now concessions the cooks etc had to take jobs as cleaners. A lot of good the union did them!

Also the borough of Montreal where I live set up a Public Security force about 15 years ago. (By-law enforcement, parking etc). The 3 agents that were hired signed their cards to join the blue collar union that the public works people were members of. The next day the force was disbanded & a contract to provide the service was given to a rent-a-cop agency. (Sorry I mean contract security company :D )

Obviously I am not & don't want to be part of a union. Quebec labour laws are strict. After 3 years of service you have to do something very serious before you can be fired. I've worked for the hotel for 25 years!

[N. A. Corbier]

I don't get it, N.A. What did you find? :confused:

Take a look at the post about what the SEIU didn't do for the guy who worked in Chicago.

[mh892]

Union=Gangster. Union=Corruption. 'You went on strike and you gained what?'.

Oh, and I sure do believe the part about being a repoter. Yeah, right.

[Mr. Security]

Take a look at the post about what the SEIU didn't do for the guy who worked in Chicago.

I already read it. I was looking for new information since your post was after that one. Disregard. :)

[IB107]

when i worked out inf SF, every company was union, when i first started we were IUSO (internation union of security officers), then we became SEIU 24/7,
the union actually worked great out there, in 2002 s/o's were getting 10.00 hr if you were lucky, now the get close to 12.00 starting wage, should be 100 health care, instead of 50 percent, when i worked out in San Francisco, we had a very motivated union, that could actually do things...

but out here in utah since its a right to work state, when employed we sign contracts with our employ that we wont unionize, because of the right to work status in our humble state, basically we can quit for whatever reason dont have to give notice, so no recourse on the employee for quitting, but also the same for the employeers the can let you go for what ever reason they feel, if they dont like you, you are gone, no questions asked. it kinda sucks this way, but its kinda good to, so your not required by law to give 2 weeks notice to a boss, so if you find a nother job, you can call in and say i quit, and thats it no recourse.

[aka Bull]

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: labor union
Function: noun
: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members' interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions


So saying that, would a union be working to improve the standards and training of the profession? I think not (at least in my experience with unions).

[ycaso77]

I am a reporter working on a story about the security industry. I would like to talk to some security guards about how you would feel about joining a union, like the Service Employees International Union, which is actively organizing security guards. Do you think a union will help raise pay and benefits for workers, for instance? Please feel free to email me back at Kris.Maher@wsj.com. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you. Kris

Personally the SEIU is quite distasteful to me, thier tactics in organizing would warm Jimmy Hoffas heart. I once was a secretary for a UPGWA local and we basically sent our dues to Detroit and represented ourselves, no thanks to the International. Unions have thier purpose but all too often they serve to shelter the lazy and incompetent and the coworkers wind up paying. But as too the SEIU, any union but that one. I want to be represented by someone whose main concern isn't dishwashers, custodians and hospital "aides". Harsh yes, but I bet at the WSJ you don't have the steelworkers representing the pressroom.

[ycaso77]

I wonder if the SEIU also thinks they can get around the Taft-Hartley Act. Security cannot be represented by the same union as workers at a site. Thats why UAW, Steelworkers and other such shops have security represented by other unions. I have seen the SEIU use every dirty under-handed trick and use political blackmail to try to force themselves on some local employees. I would retire before I would be represented by them.

[N. A. Corbier]

I wonder if the SEIU also thinks they can get around the Taft-Hartley Act. Security cannot be represented by the same union as workers at a site. Thats why UAW, Steelworkers and other such shops have security represented by other unions. I have seen the SEIU use every dirty under-handed trick and use political blackmail to try to force themselves on some local employees. I would retire before I would be represented by them.

Is this still in force? SEIU seems to think private security is just another service occupation.

[aka Bull]

Several of the officers I work with and I discussed this topic last night. We quickly all agreed that since Colorado is also a right to work state that if the upper management even smelled the idea we, as officers, were trying to unionize that we'd quickly be replaced.

When I worked in California I was required to be in a union - it was the International Union of Operating Engineers - which had not only heavy equipment operators, but nurses, law enforcement etc... Just felt funny being thought of in the same category as a bulldozer operator.

While unions can provide for their membership, I find the idea of belonging to a union like SEIU, with many different groups in it, would not provide a very strong voice for any one group. Better, if you must unionize, to belong to a union specifically aligned to your profession.

[N. A. Corbier]

Several of the officers I work with and I discussed this topic last night. We quickly all agreed that since Colorado is also a right to work state that if the upper management even smelled the idea we, as officers, were trying to unionize that we'd quickly be replaced.

When I worked in California I was required to be in a union - it was the International Union of Operating Engineers - which had not only heavy equipment operators, but nurses, law enforcement etc... Just felt funny being thought of in the same category as a bulldozer operator.

While unions can provide for their membership, I find the idea of belonging to a union like SEIU, with many different groups in it, would not provide a very strong voice for any one group. Better, if you must unionize, to belong to a union specifically aligned to your profession.

That's my position on unions. If a union is to represent security, then it should be a union representing security. If it has to be a "catch-all" union, then it should be organized as a local for security personnel only.

[ycaso77]

Is this still in force? SEIU seems to think private security is just another service occupation.

Its still the law, most places where SEIU tries to unionize security the workers as a whole are unrepresented or members of another union. They, SEIU, have tried to work around the ruling a few times. Basically if the site workers are SEIU, security cannot be part of the same union. Prevents conflict of interest and other problems with members of security possibly having to enforce regulations/laws or perform strike duties against other members. The comment " just another service organization" perfectly explains SEIU's attitude about the security profession.

[ACP01]

I agree whole heartedly that an SO Union be just for SOs.

A few years ago my wife worked at a nursing home and was unionized by the United Steel Workers. Steel Workers?!? Yep.

After about 5 years the work was "contracted out" and this was put in the contract by the USWA.

At my FD we are unionized by the International Association of Fire Fighters
(IAFF) a FF union organized for FFs. ALL IAFF officers are/were FFs.

The ONLY way an SO/SG union would work is for all union officers to have a good backgraound in Security work.

[ycaso77]

I agree whole heartedly that an SO Union be just for SOs.

A few years ago my wife worked at a nursing home and was unionized by the United Steel Workers. Steel Workers?!? Yep.

After about 5 years the work was "contracted out" and this was put in the contract by the USWA.

At my FD we are unionized by the International Association of Fire Fighters
(IAFF) a FF union organized for FFs. ALL IAFF officers are/were FFs.

The ONLY way an SO/SG union would work is for all union officers to have a good backgraound in Security work.

At one time I was a member of the United Plant Guard Workers of America, a security only union. Fine for thier bread and butter automaker and steel sites, but almost non existent in representation for small locals. A new professional entity is required to give security a voice. A nationwide Federation that provides actual service to its membership, run by people who know about security and the needs of its employees. Concentrate on wages, insurance ,training and protection and recognition for officers under the law in relation to LE. Start something like that and we might have a 21st century River Rouge union movement on your hands.

[N. A. Corbier]

At one time I was a member of the United Plant Guard Workers of America, a security only union. Fine for thier bread and butter automaker and steel sites, but almost non existent in representation for small locals. A new professional entity is required to give security a voice. A nationwide Federation that provides actual service to its membership, run by people who know about security and the needs of its employees. Concentrate on wages, insurance ,training and protection and recognition for officers under the law in relation to LE. Start something like that and we might have a 21st century River Rouge union movement on your hands.

It'd be fought hard on so many fronts, though. You'd have everyone from Group4 to the Faternal Order of Police having a stake in ensuring that some part of pushing is pushed back, hard.

Its a long, hard, road.

[aka Bull]

Basically the choice in improving the overall profession of private security rests with either unionizing or associating on a national level.

While both could ultimately provide the goal of improving the profession a union would raise the hackles on employers, clients, security companies, FoP and police unions/groups in a heartbeat. Union is a nasty word that makes those groups want to fight back and stop the idea dead in its tracks.

An association aimed at improving the profession would be able to "shield" itself from the ire, to a fair degree IMO, and be seen as a group just trying to offer improvements to the field without, initially, looking like it was taking on the above mentioned groups over the poor pay, bad conditions, unflattering training, equipment, or preventative laws restricting the ability of S/O's to get the job done. Be mindful, I said initially. At some point, depending the the success of the "association", it would then come out from under the sheeps clothing and begin to address the same things a union would supposedly be fighting for S/O's.

Either way, I agree with N.A. Corbier - It would be a long, hard road.