Gaining supervisory experience as a normal officer.

[wvd1979]

I was hoping to get some advice from supervisors here. Right now I am a regular security officer, but I am trying to move up within my department and achieve a supervisory position. I have always earned good performance reviews and I do have a two-year college degree; however, I am in the process of completing my bachelor's degree. I have 10 years of experience in the security field. For one year, I was a supervisor at another job (this was a while ago).

My problem is that I will always be competing against retired police and military veterans with 30 years of experience under their belts. My manager is not big on promoting from within the department, so I need to be as competitive as possible. Completing my 4 year degree is a good step, however I am trying to figure out how to get supervisory experience without a supervisor's position.

I thought about volunteering with a police auxillary, since they have volunteer supervisors. However, I do not want to join the auxillary for selfish reasons and commit to something when my heart is not in the right place. I asked my supervisor about a designation as lead security officer when he is not on site. (I have seniority in my department) He like the idea, but HR would not allow it.

So how can I overcome this experience dilemma? I can't get supervisory experience without a supervisor's position. And I can't get the position without experience since the competition is older and has a better resume.

I really don't want to quit my company because I have six years in and I have outlasted many other officers. Plus I have built a good reputation on the job.

Any ideas?

[officerchick]

Those are really good questions, and I'm not sure there will be a one-size-fits-all answer. First off, you're off to a good start simply by expressing interest and taking an active role in your post and company. Unfortunately, if your manager/company do not have or provide room for advancement, then you may have to decide either to stay at your current level or seek a lead/supervisory position elsewhere. There is much more to being a supervisor than just the title, and it sounds like you already have many of the qualities it takes. A good employer will recognize that even if you have limited experience as a supervisor. Is your manager easy to talk to? Could you tell him that you feel you are ready to advance? If you've already been there six years, you should have a feel for what positions may be available and whether they are not advancing you due to lack of availability, or lack of expressed interest previously, or some other reason.

A volunteer position is a good idea, but I understand your concern. You may be able to look around and find a volunteer cause that you do care about and do it for both reasons. There is nothing wrong with making use of skills you can learn by volunteering.

I have often wondered at the seeming paradox in security that as officers we are expected to follow orders and not question or challenge our supervisors, and yet in order to move into supervisory positions we have to take an active role, which sometimes means doing those very things. It is a delicate balance to maintain sometimes.

[SecTrainer]

I was hoping to get some advice from supervisors here. Right now I am a regular security officer, but I am trying to move up within my department and achieve a supervisory position. I have always earned good performance reviews and I do have a two-year college degree; however, I am in the process of completing my bachelor's degree. I have 10 years of experience in the security field. For one year, I was a supervisor at another job (this was a while ago).

My problem is that I will always be competing against retired police and military veterans with 30 years of experience under their belts. My manager is not big on promoting from within the department, so I need to be as competitive as possible. Completing my 4 year degree is a good step, however I am trying to figure out how to get supervisory experience without a supervisor's position.

I thought about volunteering with a police auxillary, since they have volunteer supervisors. However, I do not want to join the auxillary for selfish reasons and commit to something when my heart is not in the right place. I asked my supervisor about a designation as lead security officer when he is not on site. (I have seniority in my department) He like the idea, but HR would not allow it.

So how can I overcome this experience dilemma? I can't get supervisory experience without a supervisor's position. And I can't get the position without experience since the competition is older and has a better resume.

I really don't want to quit my company because I have six years in and I have outlasted many other officers. Plus I have built a good reputation on the job.

Any ideas?

The first thing I would do is obtain the formal (written) educational and experience requirements for the position of supervisor. Every job description should include a list of the requirements to be hired for the position. If you're reluctant to ask for this directly, see if you can locate the employment ad that the company placed the last couple of times they were advertising for a supervisor. You can go to your local newspaper and ask for assistance in searching the archives or "morgue" under your company's name for these ads.

From this, you should be able to see whether there is any pathway at all for promotion. For instance, if the requirements should include something like "at least five years prior experience in law enforcement or military supervision", you'll know you're probably dead in the water.

If there is a pathway, the next question is what it will take in terms of time and energy, etc. to get the requirements under your belt, and decide whether that's what you want to do...and if so, start knocking items off the list.

However, I think you're going to have to at least be willing to rethink your position about leaving the company. First of all, you plainly state that your manager doesn't like to promote from within. If that's true, you have your answer right in front of you unless you think it makes sense to draw to an inside straight.

Furthermore, it's very, very common for people in every industry to discover that advancement means changing employers. This should hardly be surprising, by reason of sheer numbers. By opening yourself up to the possibility of changing employers, you would (at least theoretically) be able to apply for any and all supervisory positions that might come open throughout your geographic area, whereas insisting on remaining with your present employer makes you eligible ONLY for the few supervisory positions that are likely to come open just within your own department. Going one way, you might be able to apply for 8 or 10 supervisory positions a year, for instance, whereas going the other way you might only possibly (and it does seem that "possibly" is the operative word with your manager's attitude) be eligible for 1 or 2 positions a year. Play the numbers! Betting against them (by limiting yourself in this way) isn't smart strategy. And remember that just because you explore outside possibilities doesn't mean you have to take a position that's offered to you unless you truly do believe it's a step up for your career.

As always, there is a "third way". Given current economic conditions, there's a lot to be said for the Way of the Turtle, meaning pull in your head, finish up your degree and continue to do the excellent work you're already doing in your present job until the economy improves and job opportunities are once again expanding rather than contracting. There's certainly nothing wrong with that approach either.

[wvd1979]

However, I think you're going to have to at least be willing to rethink your position about leaving the company. First of all, you plainly state that your manager doesn't like to promote from within. If that's true, you have your answer right in front of you unless you think it makes sense to draw to an inside straight.

Furthermore, it's very, very common for people in every industry to discover that advancement means changing employers. This should hardly be surprising, by reason of sheer numbers. By opening yourself up to the possibility of changing employers, you would (at least theoretically) be able to apply for any and all supervisory positions that might come open throughout your geographic area, whereas insisting on remaining with your present employer makes you eligible ONLY for the few supervisory positions that are likely to come open just within your own department. Going one way, you might be able to apply for 8 or 10 supervisory positions a year, whereas going the other way you might only possibly (and it does seem that "possibly" is the operative word with your manager's attitude) be eligible for 1 or 2 positions a year. Play the numbers

Thank you for your input. You have good thoughts here, and I have considered many of them myself. I do look at available positions within the field, but I also think about other considerations.

One thing I consider is that a supervisory job can be stressful no matter what, however certain types of security departments can be worse than others. The work environment and overall culture of the workplace are important to me. I try to do some research and actually talk to security officers just to learn about the environment. Then I ask myself "Am I a good fit in this environment?" Better to be honest with myself than waste people's time.

There are other things I consider, such as the salary and the work schedule. I would take a small pay cut to gain useful experience, but I try to weigh those things carefully.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[FireRanger]

This is strictly my two cents so take it for what it's worth. First, if I had a manager that I knew prefered to promote from outside, rather then inside. I would have to consider how much they value me and my fellow employees. IMHO, that value is rather low if not non-exsistent and I would go looking for an employeer who valued me. My company makes it a point to promote from within (at least locally) and offer our own PT guys chances at going FT first. While we do not have great benefits, being part of a branch that does that and encourages that at the site level. Shows me, the employee that they do care and value the services that I am providing to them and the client. Remember our companies always talk about customer service, but are they focusing only on the external customer, or are they focusing on them and us, the internal customer.

Second you say you have thought about joining the local PD as an auxillary officer, this might actually be a benefit for you. My local Sheriff's office has reserve deputies, and they go on patrol and assist sworn deputies as well as perform their own tasks by themselves. You may be able to gain valuable LE experience without having to become a sworn officer. Another thing, have you thought about joing a military reserve or guard unit? Yes while you may be deployed overseas in support of combat operations, you will also get valuable training and civilian certifications. Take for example the combat medics, they are national registry EMTs when they get out of medic school. In fact some reserve and guard medic units pair up with local 9-1-1 ambulance units and have you do ride alongs to keep your skills proficient. A lot of Law Enforcement is either prior service or currently service as a guardsman or reservist in the military. This could help you network with people. Finally if you do get deployed overseas, you may be eligible for receiving veteran's points for gaining civil service jobs. Finally the National Guard pays 100% of your college tuition at state colleges (at least use too, I have heard that number has dropped to 90%). Eitherway going the NG route may help you with experience, hiring preferences and educational money.

Finally, I am always open to going after another spot within or outside of my company, should the opportunity come knocking. I love my current site and my current job, however I also understand that there are better positions out there. You can always apply for a job and turn it down. Besides, the worst any potential employeer can tell you is thanks for applying but we offered the job to someone else.

Keep trying, I am sure something will come up sooner then later.

[wvd1979]

Thanks for the ideas FireRanger. Unfortunately, the military is not an option for me since I have a birth defect with my right ear. (Problem with hearing in that ear. Limited decibel range). I tried to join the National Guard few years ago but was turned down due to the ear problem.

[ThrilloftheVO]

Frankly, wvd1979, that whole situation reflects very poorly on your employer. Deliberately holding back capable employees who have the necessary education, seniority, and desire to grow is inexcusable and represents a failure of management.

It sounds like that manager hires and promotes in his own image and if you aren't part of his "old boy" network, you have no value to him. Get your four year degree and get out of there.

[ThrilloftheVO]

Let me put it another way:

Your post indicates that you feel that you're somehow deficient because you have not worked in a PD or been in the military. This isn't the case. You have enough formal education to justify a first-line postion and seniority should never be overlooked when filling a position.

The truth is that your manager sucks. You shouldn't let him make you think that you're somehow inferior because of his biases.

[officerchick]

Let me put it another way:

Your post indicates that you feel that you're somehow deficient because you have not worked in a PD or been in the military. This isn't the case. You have enough formal education to justify a first-line postion and seniority should never be overlooked when filling a position.

The truth is that your manager sucks. You shouldn't let him make you think that you're somehow inferior because of his biases.

+1 You expressed it very well.

[wvd1979]

Let me put it another way:

Your post indicates that you feel that you're somehow deficient because you have not worked in a PD or been in the military. This isn't the case. You have enough formal education to justify a first-line postion and seniority should never be overlooked when filling a position.

The truth is that your manager sucks. You shouldn't let him make you think that you're somehow inferior because of his biases.

LOL. Thanks for taking the time to respond. With regards to the manager, I can't say that he "sucks" because that isn't 100% true. There is always the chance that somebody from the outside had a better resume than I did and made a good impression. Human resources might have been a factor as well.

I really don't feel inferior. The market for supervisor jobs is competitive, and there are a lot of candidates with valuable knowledge and experience. What I am trying to do is find ways to be a more competitive applicant.

Like others have pointed out, I may have to leave to get ahead. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[ThrilloftheVO]

I don't care how qualified the other candidates are on paper and neither should your manager. You have an easily verifiable six year track record of success within that organization. I've encountered managers who come from a long police or military background who have a lot of contempt for security officers as the result of their experiences. He probably won't "promote from within" because of his attitude toward security employees in general and he'll always hire the types of people you described for management spots because they're "his" kind and therefore "acceptable".

This guy may be a fine manager in some regards, but his refusal to allow his dedicated employees to advance within the organization is what Charles Sennewald, CPP refers to as a "Jackass Management Trait". Any shortcomings in this situation are that manager's, not yours.

Believe me, there are plenty of security managers who would view an applicant for a supervisory position like you who has a Bachelors degree (well-educated), over six years experience at one employer (stable work history), and good reviews from that employer (competent) as perfect management material even without a great deal of prior management experience.

My advice: Stay put until you get your degree and then go work for a security company or department that actually values its employees. You are being unfairly passed over through no fault of your own and I doubt it will end anytime soon.

[wvd1979]

My advice: Stay put until you get your degree and then go work for a security company or department that actually values its employees. You are being unfairly passed over through no fault of your own and I doubt it will end anytime soon.

Thank you again. The words of support mean a lot to me and your advice will be food for thought.

[Bill Warnock]

I would like to add to what ThrilloftheVO posted above, which was an excellent piece of writing. Those types of managers who hire only "their kind" tend never to think outside the box. They are very much contented within their own paradigm. That type of leadership destroys any semblance of initiative. They are in their training trying to make their subordinates robots.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Tsalla Apopka]

Lots of good sound advice.
IMHO you have to be realistic and consider the actual real situation where you are now. It sounds like the odds are very much against you getting a supervisory position, it doesn't matter why, just that that's the way it is there. In a smaller department you'd have a chance so I would start that search. You may have to take a cut in pay or prestige or even relocate but that may be the reality of getting supervisory experience for you now.

[ThrilloftheVO]

You're welcome. I hate to see good workers get shafted by bad management.

Remember that there is no shame in leaving an employer that won't let you reach your full potential. I've made that decision before and it was always to my benefit. If your next employer asks why you left that job, tell them the truth that you wanted to advance in your career and the former employer was not enabling it.

It sounds like you enjoy that job and I hope that your manager changes his wrong-headed promotion practices so that you can stay and move up; but if he doesn't, never forget that you have to do what's in your best interest.

[ThrilloftheVO]

I would like to add to what ThrilloftheVO posted above, which was an excellent piece of writing. Those types of managers who hire only "their kind" tend never to think outside the box. They are very much contented within their own paradigm. That type of leadership destroys any semblance of initiative. They are in their training trying to make their subordinates robots.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

Thank you, Mr Warnock! I totally agree with your description of that type of leadership. I could write volumes about what I have seen in that respect.

[5423]

The primary responsibility of supervisors/managers is to motivate their personnel. Talk is cheap; actions are reality. Atta Boys are fine, but a valued employee should have that value demonstrated to him/her.

Remember, you only owe them your loyalty and labor as long as you're willing to cash their checks. Should another company who values your supervisor qualities come along, I say, "Ah'm with YEW fellers!".

[BailBondInvestigator]

Excellent answers from everyone and, since I can't improve on any of them, all that is left is my two cents as a site supervisor who was driven to promote employees who showed me they had what it takes...

If your supervisor thinks you have the chops for a lead spot.....that is as good a recommendation as you can get! If HR or "management" say no and the staffing/scheduling don't offer any openings.....I'd say (like many others) it is time to look outward.

[wvd1979]

As always, the words of support are appreciated. Thanks to the latest posters.

[Acer]

My problem is that I will always be competing against retired police and military veterans with 30 years of experience under their belts. My manager is not big on promoting from within the department, so I need to be as competitive as possible. Completing my 4 year degree is a good step, however I am trying to figure out how to get supervisory experience without a supervisor's position.

So how can I overcome this experience dilemma? I can't get supervisory experience without a supervisor's position. And I can't get the position without experience since the competition is older and has a better resume.
Any ideas?

This is when you have to be very creative and prove to others you can be a supervisor.

Twice, to prove myself, I wrote post order manuals for the client. And as for me, I hate to say this, but I have no degree what so ever. So in that regard, your doing good already. :)

Show skills you may have with computers, creating forms (such as incident reports), and show that you are willing and able to fill-in when needed. Show that you can manage people and getting results (sometimes you have to force these). What I mean by that is get better results then what your superiors expect or what they can accomplish. And most of all, be a LIKEABLE guy. That may sound silly, but you have to be liked. What I have found out in all the years I have worked as a security officer if your not liked you will never make it far. No matter how hard or smart you may work.

With that said, you can do your job and still be liked. But it can be tuff.

Find and look for things that will show your on top of things. And once you find those things, fix them.

Hope that helps. I am a bit tired.

[wvd1979]

Find and look for things that will show your on top of things. And once you find those things, fix them.

Where do I begin? I have done a lot to be a golden boy and show that I have initiative. Here is a list of things I have done since I joined the company. (Keep in mind all of this is above the job description.)

I created and currently maintain two databases of information on Microsoft Excel. One for vehicle registration info. and another for alarm response data. I send my supervisor an updated copy every week.

I have written multiple standard operating procedures at the request of my supervisor.

I have created multiple Power Point presentations for new employees when they go to their security orientation.

During my supervisor's absence, I conduct the security briefings for new employees. (Basic rules and security info.)

I have created report forms that are used to report lighting outages and fire/safety hazards.

At the end of the year, I created a statistical report with the number of alarms, security checks, and pie charts that were set up in percentages.

Maybe I'm too productive. :confused:

[5423]

Lord Aw'mighty, son! What's your manager doing?!? And where in the... world... is his head?!?

Sorry, but here goes: Your employer obviously either (1) doesn't appreciate you, or (2) knows full well what they've got (in you), and is determined to underpay and use you, just as long as possible.

My GM asked the other day if I was interested in taking on the Secur Mgr position (which we don't currently have; Security is currently under Safety/Health); would then report directly to the GM's supervisor. Wanna know why they asked?

Because I've been creating exactly the sort of product you listed...

As I said before: keep it up, and somebody's gonna seduce you away from them, and never let you escape!

You're doing fine, just talking to the wrong people.

[SecTrainer]

So many excellent responses! I'm especially impressed with those who have given examples of "adding value" beyond their job descriptions.

Here's a link from Officer.com that I think many who are interested in this thread will enjoy. It's called Leading from the Bottom: Thoughts from the Least of Us (http://www.officer.com/web/online/Leadership/Leading-From-the-Bottom-Up/16$39841). I particularly like the quote from Martin Luther King: "Anyone can be a leader because anyone can serve."

In other words, no matter what our position there is always something we can do to demonstrate our ability to inspire others, to initiate positive changes, and to improve the effectiveness of our organization regardless of our "official" title. People who demonstrate these qualities are more likely to attract opportunities for advancement, sooner or later.

[wvd1979]

Lord Aw'mighty, son! What's your manager doing?!? And where in the... world... is his head?!?


I don't quite understand where his head is sometimes. There is some hypocrisy in his thinking. For example, he requires the officers to wear ties for "professional image." However, he goes to meetings wearing a red Maryland Terrapins hooded sweatshirt...yes I'm serious. Our secretaries in the office come to work in jeans, sneakers, and sweatsuits. They wear this stuff when new employees come in to get an I.D. badge. Now that is a good professional image there.

Can we say double standard?:D

[Nauticus]

I don't quite understand where his head is sometimes. There is some hypocrisy in his thinking. For example, he requires the officers to wear ties for "professional image." However, he goes to meetings wearing a red Maryland Terrapins hooded sweatshirt...yes I'm serious. Our secretaries in the office come to work in jeans, sneakers, and sweatsuits. They wear this stuff when new employees come in to get an I.D. badge. Now that is a good professional image there.

Can we say double standard?:D

While I agree that the security department should always look professional, that's pretty surprising that your manager wouldn't hold himself to the same standard...

[wvd1979]

While I agree that the security department should always look professional, that's pretty surprising that your manager wouldn't hold himself to the same standard...


I suppose that's the difference between management and leadership. They don't always go hand-in-hand.