Radios

[Arff312]

What type of radios do you use. Also are you allowed to use personal radios programmed to your companys frequencies ? Do you use nextels also?

At my company we use kenwood and motorolas. Yes we can use our own radios. I have a mt 2000 radio that i am getting programmed. I do use a nextel but not all of our officers have one.

[N. A. Corbier]

What type of radios do you use. Also are you allowed to use personal radios programmed to your companys frequencies ? Do you use nextels also?

At my company we use kenwood and motorolas. Yes we can use our own radios. I have a mt 2000 radio that i am getting programmed. I do use a nextel but not all of our officers have one.

I'm interested in this, as I'm trying to figure out if I want to use walkie-talkies, or juse issue Nextel radios to everyone. I already know that the patrol laptops will be nextel radio powered, since the data fees are ridicliously cheap, as are the modems.

If I could get an MTX or GP600 to work on Nextel's iDEN, I'd be very happy. You can pick those radios up all day long on ebay for cheap, buy the programming cord, and program them in-agency.

[Arff312]

What i recommend for all security agencies is a traditional radio setup. the reason for this si safety. Yes nextels are cheap BUT the transmissions are generally jus tone on one. I would recommend a business band radio or even professional radio. Because then all your units hear the transmission. If there is trouble all your units here who and wear and help is quicker to be enroute. I recommend the Nextels as a back up. thats just my two cents. If you want more info NA let me know as i dable in radios and can probably help you out a little bit.

[Bill Warnock]

Depending on the size of complex your agency provides protective services for be it a single building or a series of structures, good radio communications is essential. In my survey/inspection career of some 40 years, I?ve run into some serious problems not the least of which has been, ?I can see the person I want to talk-to, but cannot reach him by radio. When responding to a serious incident it is critical you have as much intelligence as possible before you move from your existing location and the necessary changes that must be made to your travel plans so as not to endanger your life or more importantly, those depending upon your undetected arrival. Taken from my security guide, these are some of the things we need to consider:

(10) Has a security force radio communications system been established? Has it been hardened against the effects of EMI, EMR and RFI? Consult Military Handbook (MIL-HDBK 419 current edition), Grounding, Bonding, and Shielding for Electronic Equipments and Facilities, in two volumes.

(a) Does all or any part of the system use encryption such as the Motorola® DVP? or an NIST approved algorithm? Is there an easily recognized signal transmitted when ?in the clear broadcasts? are made?

(b) Are any radios equipped with duress signaling devices?

(c) How efficient is the system?

(d) Has a propagation survey been performed? If so, by whom? If not, explain why not?

1 Have any security force members experienced any blind spots with radio communications, main or central station, and slave, mobile, or hand-held radios within the building or within the complex?

2 Have the area(s) been highlighted on a ?spot map??

3 What actions have been taken or contemplated to resolve the problem? If no action has been taken or none is contemplated, explain why not?

The underlines for items 1-3 did not transfer.

[Arff312]

EMT i did not purchase my own radio just for this job. I purchased it for a company i was working for as an EMT at concerts. I purchased it because one we didnt have enough radios for everyone and i hated people being with out radiso so some of us went and got our own. Secondly i use it with my fire department i work for. So i use it alot i am just having my security info putinto it. Lastly i got it cheap off ebay. I like having my own radio because sometimes at the mall we have radios that are dead or dont work and stuff and i hate worring if i will have the power to talk. So i have my own and once again some others have them too. I like learning about radios and enjoy having my own.

[N. A. Corbier]

What i recommend for all security agencies is a traditional radio setup. the reason for this si safety. Yes nextels are cheap BUT the transmissions are generally jus tone on one. I would recommend a business band radio or even professional radio. Because then all your units hear the transmission. If there is trouble all your units here who and wear and help is quicker to be enroute. I recommend the Nextels as a back up. thats just my two cents. If you want more info NA let me know as i dable in radios and can probably help you out a little bit.

The reason I'm looking into nextel is specifically the group call function. Ie: Traditional iDEN radios. They even make shoulder mikes for the nextel radios. I like the price of the services (Per month), but I do see the benefits of buying or leasing traditional radios, leasing or buying a tower with repeater access, and buying iDEN radio modems for the MDCs.

The MDCs and radio communications tie into one of the selling points - providing professional officers for assignments that the local security guard company (who doubles as a janitoral service) won't take due to liability concerns and your forced to hire off duty police at 50 an hour - and another selling point - its 2005, wouldn't you rather have your reports available digitally so you don't spend 2 hours wondering what the guard wrote?

Bill makes a good point, too. Make sure your system works, is secure, and won't conk out during the first thunderstorm or when someone starts up a microwave in the area. I've seen too many public agencies radios on iDEN die when our old 460 MHzs worked just fine.

[N. A. Corbier]

Why on earth would you purchase your own radio? What a waste of money...

I'd have to say that 'waste of money' is subjective. To some people who dabble in amateur radio, a HT set can get all public safety frequencies, their own 2M and other HAM frequencies, and be a good recreational and work investment.

[wannabedafiveoh]

Well let me tell ya! I swear by Kenwood. Never has and never will fail me. Come rain come snow, no other brand comes close to the range or abilities of the trusty Kenwood! And they're affordable too! :D

[Arff312]

Wanna be what security company are you with . ur company sounds alot like mine. Do you happen to work for a westfield mall ?

[wannabedafiveoh]

Nawww. Its a small private owned mall WAY WAY WAY WAY down south in IL. I do hear good stuff about Woodfield though!

[Arff312]

The westfield malls are good to work at only one problem. They are too worried about public image. Our mall is in kind of a bad area we have lots of fights and stuff. They want us to stop them and get involved BUT they wont let us carry OC or Batons. They allowed us to carry then took it away then gave it back and took it the same day because some one HAD to use it. It was a justified use. PD even said it was good and Citizens said that we should have had baton or FireArms. PD says all the time we should have batons or OC because of the stuff we deal with. PD likes us because we handle most of the minor stuff with out help and only call them when arrests are made or something big is going on.

[N. A. Corbier]

The westfield malls are good to work at only one problem. They are too worried about public image. Our mall is in kind of a bad area we have lots of fights and stuff. They want us to stop them and get involved BUT they wont let us carry OC or Batons. They allowed us to carry then took it away then gave it back and took it the same day because some one HAD to use it. It was a justified use. PD even said it was good and Citizens said that we should have had baton or FireArms. PD says all the time we should have batons or OC because of the stuff we deal with. PD likes us because we handle most of the minor stuff with out help and only call them when arrests are made or something big is going on.

That's the normal reaction of alot of police departments when they're dealing with a security detachment that seems to know what they're doing. Less physical engagement for them, after all, you've already got them subdued or ejected.

This works because its your job to protect the client, and their job to enforce the law violation. If they have to come down there and do both, then why is security there? :)

[Arff312]

We have a good relation ship with PD. I think that makes the job more fun. Also several of our officers are prior Explorers or cadets. Also we have several officers in the academy now.

[P68]

Motorola HT 750 for the guards, HT 1250 for the supervisors.
Officers are allowed to purchase their own radios with authorization of the director of security of the facility.

[davido]

Motorola mts 2000, 800mhz trunked

[S/O245]

all our marked cars have radios in the cars and they also issue port radios. If a S/O dont have a radio, you at least have a cell phone. Some have both. Our Patrol Supervisors cars have radio,cell and computers. We dont have nextell. I think nextells would be nice. What we have right now are just regular upto date cell phones the service contract we use is verizon.

[D.Dawson]

First off hello to all from the newbie member.

Im really responding to the original post ( to lazy to read them all ) Using your own radios on a frequency licensed to another individual ( ie: your company) is illegal by FCC standards. If caught it is a hefty fine. Basically your company is licensed for say 10 portables and 1 base, Let's say your company gets a complaint filed on them (unlikely) and the FCC decides to do a count of radios, well Mr. CEO we counted 11 portables and one base , we are fining you for over limits of your license.

I also noticed that an idividual said that he was a HAM , under no circumstaces should you get involved in this type of activity you risk losing your license.Using your HAM radio on other frequencies that it was designed for is also ILLEGAL!!! 4 words for ya JUST DON'T DO IT!!!

Im not trying to piss anyone off with my comments I just think if it's that important for you to have a radio you company would give you one.If your company , supervisor , director says hey go buy yourself a radio by all means go for it , but I would make sure you are doing it the legal way. That way would be upgrading the license and having the radio programmed by a authorized technitian.

just my 2 cents
Dan

Ps. I am a licensed HAM radio operator ( KC8ONR)

[SeanCO]

We use nextels now after tyring out a private band radio setup that never seemed to work properly. However we are researching better radio setups as we speak so who knows, but the nextels are working far better for the time being.

[N. A. Corbier]

We use nextels now after tyring out a private band radio setup that never seemed to work properly. However we are researching better radio setups as we speak so who knows, but the nextels are working far better for the time being.
Is your company using the GPS portion of the nextels for employee accountability? That's one of the big "value added features" of the nextel that interests me. Both in client accountability (I can "virtually" guarantee we will know our employees are on site) and in officer safety (I can "virtually" guarantee that we will know where your radio is). Obviously, I have a responsibility to both client accountability and officer safety, which is a big nextel selling point to me.

[Arff312]

First off hello to all from the newbie member.

Im really responding to the original post ( to lazy to read them all ) Using your own radios on a frequency licensed to another individual ( ie: your company) is illegal by FCC standards. If caught it is a hefty fine. Basically your company is licensed for say 10 portables and 1 base, Let's say your company gets a complaint filed on them (unlikely) and the FCC decides to do a count of radios, well Mr. CEO we counted 11 portables and one base , we are fining you for over limits of your license.

I also noticed that an idividual said that he was a HAM , under no circumstaces should you get involved in this type of activity you risk losing your license.Using your HAM radio on other frequencies that it was designed for is also ILLEGAL!!! 4 words for ya JUST DON'T DO IT!!!

Im not trying to piss anyone off with my comments I just think if it's that important for you to have a radio you company would give you one.If your company , supervisor , director says hey go buy yourself a radio by all means go for it , but I would make sure you are doing it the legal way. That way would be upgrading the license and having the radio programmed by a authorized technitian.

just my 2 cents
Dan my

Ps. I am a licensed HAM radio operator ( KC8ONR)

In case ( i was mthe original poster) There are many people at my agency with radios.Even the director has one. I believe that we are licensed for 50 or so radios on the security frequency. We have no where near that even when you add in the personal radios and the other people who have them (Housekeeping, Mgt, Maint). We all have the permission of our director to have the radios and the reason we do is because he knows that the radios we have at our mall suck but the company overall wont but us new ones. So we are operating with in the law here.

[N. A. Corbier]

I sincerely dislike DirectConnect for anything but "unit to unit" communication. Everyone should be on GroupTalk mode, perferabally with a shoulder mike (Motorola makes em for Nextels) and their unit LOCKED on GroupTalk mode so that they have instant access to the network.

[plankeye]

Airport we use Motorola GTX 800 Mhz conventional non trunked handheld and a motorola maxtrac mobile 800 Mhz motorola
and a handheld motorola xts series digital encrypted

[SeanCO]

Is your company using the GPS portion of the nextels for employee accountability? That's one of the big "value added features" of the nextel that interests me. Both in client accountability (I can "virtually" guarantee we will know our employees are on site) and in officer safety (I can "virtually" guarantee that we will know where your radio is). Obviously, I have a responsibility to both client accountability and officer safety, which is a big nextel selling point to me.

Yes we use the GPS feature of the Nextel service which is great. I wish we would use the group talk feature though and perhaps I can talk them into it. Can somebody point me in the direction of the Motorola mics? This can go a long way in some of the few frustrations we suffer with Nextel. Like if two of our guys are blabbing and I need to contact them.

[N. A. Corbier]

Call Nextel, and ask to speak to Nextel Business Services, or Nextel Government Services. You are after the "Motorola Remote Shoulder Microphone." They're about 59-100 dollars. They have a new microphone on the website, "Motorola Heavy Duty Remote Shoulder Microphone" which is intrinsically safe and can be added to Certified Intrinsically Safe Radio Systems so that you don't blow yourself/everyone else up using the device. Some Nextel devices are CISRS and Factory Mutual approved.

Heavy Duty sounds great, right? 249.99 a microphone.

[Blame_The_Guard]

What i recommend for all security agencies is a traditional radio setup. the reason for this si safety. Yes nextels are cheap BUT the transmissions are generally jus tone on one. I would recommend a business band radio or even professional radio. Because then all your units hear the transmission. If there is trouble all your units here who and wear and help is quicker to be enroute. I recommend the Nextels as a back up. thats just my two cents. If you want more info NA let me know as i dable in radios and can probably help you out a little bit.

Plain old simple radios.... I agree. Consider - I've seen guards not use the Nextel because they weren't sure how. Yes, they should know how but, and I can never stress this enough, not only concerning radios, "should" and "real world" are not the same thing. I can't count the number of, somewhat, complicated procedures, easily simplified for efficiency, but stubbornly adhered to because everybody "should" be able to carry them out.

[N. A. Corbier]

John, I see your point, and I was around for the Nextel days. There were guys who were incapable of working the device. What I am hoping to do, and will try diligently to, is hire people who are capable of working the thing. After all, I don't use paper reports. The only report the client gets on paper is a print out. If the employee is not capable of using a nextel locked in Group mode, then there's no way in Hell they're going to figure out how to write a shift, event, incident, or arrest report on a computer or PDA.

That's one of the things. If someone looks at the "pre-employment notification," and goes, "I don't know how to work them there computers," or "them there nextel thingies," they'll be asked if they can learn. Considering that the nextel will probally be the way they clock in and out of the attendance system - winging it will probally not fly.

I'm in an area surrounded by companies that use guard forms from the 1970s. Paper and Blue Ink. All of us, obviously, can fill out a web form, and browse the web. If you were a client, which would YOU want? Access to a searchable database where you get daily reports delivered by fax, email, or printout - or my illegible handwriting on a sticky note on someone else's guard log who has even WORSE handwriting?

Then again, we all know I'm an idealist. :) But, at least, I have an IT company who can write the custom software, can buy the systems on the cheap, and dosen't have to spend tons of cash outsourcing hardware/software/training to someone else. My own. :)

I may, in all actuality, go with a trunked tower, and buy a bunch of Motorolas off ebay on the cheap - removing any equipment maintenace fees I'd encounter. Buy a programming cable, hook a PC up with an MDT1200 API unit, and boom, instant MDT1200 compliant public safety network. All the radio company would need to do is provide us trunking channel access and get our FCC license. But I like the ability to track where the employees are, on duty, down to three meters.

[Blame_The_Guard]

[QUOTE=N. A. Corbier]
I'm in an area surrounded by companies that use guard forms from the 1970s. Paper and Blue Ink. All of us, obviously, can fill out a web form, and browse the web. If you were a client, which would YOU want? Access to a searchable database where you get daily reports delivered by fax, email, or printout - or my illegible handwriting on a sticky note on someone else's guard log who has even WORSE handwriting?
QUOTE]
I've been lobbying for e-filing, of some sort, for some time now. All I hear is the guards won't know how to do it. Want the truth? The providers don't know how to do it and are too stuck in their old ways to learn anything new. I give up.

[N. A. Corbier]

They have no idea how, and to pay another company to do it is an expense they can't "justify." Of course, when you look at how much cost is spent on designing, printing, ordering and reordering, accounting of print stock for various posts, filling out the forms, filling out additional forms due to typo, improper reporting, or other reason, supervisor review (if any)...

Yeah, in the long run, buying a 100-300 dollar laptop or 50 dollar PDA, then using a web-application backend on a shared 10 dollar a month server somewhere, with client, employee, supervisor, and management modes makes sense, dosen't it?

Of course, when I put a RFP out for the same system we're building now... I got quotes from anything from 1,500 dollars to upwards of 250,000.

[plankeye]

800Mhz radio systems are not the best, I dont know what all the hype is about it, motorola seems to switch alot of agencies to 800Mhz, but I spouse its also where your located if alot of radio licenses have been issued there may not be alot of radio spectrum in a given area thus alot of agencies using 800Mhz

A good system in my opinion is UHF or VHF conventional system with a repeater.

My own personal radio is a vertex VX10 UHF that I use with my FCC license GMRS and Iam trying to get a UHF repeater, But anyways the VX10 is easily programmed via computer software and cable and the software and cable is very cheap and can be found right on the internet, even some VX10 models have field programming capability and they are cheap compared to motorola but still very high quality. I also use my VX10 as a scanner ,alot of public safety agencies and other companies use the UHF band and I have them in my radio as well set to receive only, I only have 40 channels on it used up including the frequencys Iam licensed to use myself but the radio has 120 channels available to be programed.

[EMTGuard]

We are provided portable radios by the client. It's programmed with all the channels used by the different departments in the plant. The Security/Medical channel we use is channel 1 on all radios plantwide and is shared with the plant water and waste treatment shop, aka Waterworld. Our channel, channel 1, is the only one using a repeater frequency pair and has coverage all the way to the local hospital ER where I often transport patients injured at the plant. Everyone else operates simplex. Frequencies are in the 400MHz business band.

[CAPTAIN KOOLAID]

We use Motorola UHF sp50+ 10 channel radio

[Echos13]

We use to have Nextels till the area manager thought he could get brownie points by getting rid of them showing he saved money. I brought some of my Cobra Microtalks in for us to use. They are limited in range but seem to work OK most of the time. We just don't say things that others do not need to hear on them.

[CorpSec]

We didn't have luck with Nextels. There were a lot of dead spots on campus and they just didn't have the reliability we needed. We use Kenwoods and they have served us well. We use a full sized model for the officers in uniform and the brass carries the smaller model since we are in business attire.

What kind of accounts are you going for Nathan? It seems like you have already heard about American security. They are huge in St. Paul. It strikes me as odd that they don't take more risky accounts since they have a lot of armed staff with their armored car business.

Are you going for the segment that is being served by the likes of Wolf?

[FireEMSPolice]

We use Motorola HT750's in both the 4 channel and 16 channel varieties on the UHF band. They are expensive however and ours are in the shop all the time for something or another. We have 2 Motorola GR500 repeaters.

We did demo the Kenwood TK-370G, which is a fraction of the cost of the Motorola HT750. The TK-370G is small and lightweight. Everyone loved it. However, some management person at corporate who will NEVER use the radios killed the Kenwoods because he has some hard-on for Motorola. So much for trying to save money as they keep preaching to us.

[N. A. Corbier]

It will be awhile till I attempt to open a security company. It may be in Minnesota. I'm not sure. I would need a Qualified Manager in this state.

In other news, American Security's armored force was bought out by GARDA Worldwide from their website. Odd, yes?

[Hank1]

It will be awhile till I attempt to open a security company. It may be in Minnesota. I'm not sure. I would need a Qualified Manager in this state.

Has opening your own Agency always been a goal of yours Nathan!? And why Minnesota? Just out of curiosity?

[CorpSec]

That is odd Nathan, I knew that they hadn't been a family owned company for awhile, but I wasn't aware that their armored business had been bought out.

[gcmc security part 2]

Has opening your own Agency always been a goal of yours Nathan!? And why Minnesota? Just out of curiosity?

Minnesota is a bit more Security Officer Friendly than Florida, I believe would be one of the reasons.

I also know of another state that had crossed his mind :)

[N. A. Corbier]

Florida frightens me in how little one can do compared to other states. I have a business partner in Minneapolis. That's why I'm here. Oh, and because its a city of 4 million, not 100,000, like Kenosha.

Originally, I wanted to open a security company in Wisconsin. Funding was interesting, to say the least. After awhile, I got involved with NAPSOA and that was supposed to be "large company" that funded operations.

Yeah... That's a saga right there.

So, now, I just run my little IT firm and will one day build up enough money to fund a security firm somewhere in the US. It may be a division of my company, who knows?

I provide consultation services, based on what I learned, to friends in the industry.

[gcmc security part 2]

After awhile, I got involved with NAPSOA and that was supposed to be "large company" that funded operations.

Yeah... That's a saga right there.



From now on NAPSOA shall be called "That headache that shall not be named"

[HotelSecurity]

GARDA (A Montreal based company :) ) wants to rule the world:D

[Minneapolis Security]

It will be awhile till I attempt to open a security company. It may be in Minnesota. I'm not sure. I would need a Qualified Manager in this state.
In other news, American Security's armored force was bought out by GARDA Worldwide from their website. Odd, yes?

Nathan,

I think you would easily qualify for a Minnesota Protective Agent license.

I'm sure you have seen the requirements, but I'll post them for everyone Else's benefit:

The applicant, qualified representative or Minnesota Manager for a PROTECTIVE AGENT
license must provide documentation supporting a minimum of 6,000 hours of employment in one
or more of the following areas, showing competency and ability:
1. Employed in a protective/security capacity with a licensed protective agent, or in a
protective/security or investigative capacity for a licensed private detective. Have
experience in security systems, audits and supervision.
2. Employed in a protective/security or investigator capacity with a United States
government investigative service.
3. Employed in a protective/security or investigator capacity with a city police department or
sheriff's office.
4. Be employed in an occupation the Board finds equivalent in scope, responsibility and
training as one of the specific occupations listed above.

Basically 3 years experience as a security officer, with some supervisory experience. The experience doesn't have to have been in Minnesota. I'm sure all your Florida hours would qualify you. The PDB isn't nearly as scary as some people portray it to be.

[N. A. Corbier]

That's it? LOL. I see, thank you.