PDA

View Full Version : toooo many damn things happen....



UtahProtectionForce
07-24-2008, 03:40 PM
while im on duty....

on 07-16

Had a prositute in building showering in common restroom
Had a Guy steal an air compressor.
Had a water line break.

on 07-17

off

on 07-18

Had a Fight at the bar
Almost had another fight

on 07-19

Quiet at the bar, until last two minutes of shift 10 man fight

on 07-20

off

on 07-21

Caught some one trying to steal some pipes.
Semi hit a car sending it smashing over an airconditioner
some one broke into leasing office

on 07-22

Some on broke lock on pool gate
Parking gate broken
police on site towing a drug car
booted a car for handicap violation

0n 7-23

Helped some guy retrive his property that someone else in the complex stole.
he got his cellphone and dufflebag back.
caught 5-6 hispanic males trying to jump into dumpster, called police on them.



blah.................. tooooo many incident reports lol...

Chucky
07-24-2008, 08:00 PM
caught 5-6 hispanic males trying to jump into dumpster, called police on them.

I knew it Dumpster diving will be an Olympic event some day:)

Captain_America21
07-24-2008, 08:43 PM
Is it illegal to jump in a dumpster?

When I was a (still do some work) PI, I use to do "garbage pulls" all the time.

Just curious.

sgtnewby
07-24-2008, 09:20 PM
1800 - Increase restraints on combative patient

1813 - Restrain combative patient and hold down for sedation meds

1950 - Search new psych patient on a hold

2000 to 0200 - Tours, reports, staff escorts

0208 - Adult male down and unresponsive in front of ER, assist bringing him in

0232 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0240 - Search intoxicated patient on a hold

0300 - Search another intoxicated on a hold

0320 - Restrain another combative patient

0354 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0400 - Search another intoxicated patient on a hold

0410 - Restrain another combative patient

0435 - Restrain another combative patient and hold down for sedation meds

0445 - Hold down patient for sedation meds

0455 - Restrain another combative patient

0530 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0537 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0540 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

This was on a Tuesday. All individual patient calls require their own report.:(

sgtnewby
07-24-2008, 09:25 PM
Is it illegal to jump in a dumpster?

When I was a (still do some work) PI, I use to do "garbage pulls" all the time.

Just curious.

If it's on private property (trespassing), not to mention it's a HUGE liability...

Captain_America21
07-24-2008, 09:26 PM
If the trash is on the curb or located in the dumpster I don't believe it's considered private property.

I could steal your hospitals trash legally.

sgtnewby
07-24-2008, 09:56 PM
As I said.....


If it's on private property (trespassing), not to mention it's a HUGE liability...

And we're talking about "dumpster diving" here, not a little trash can on the curb...

sgtnewby
07-24-2008, 10:00 PM
If the trash is on the curb or located in the dumpster I don't believe it's considered private property.

I could steal your hospitals trash legally.

If it was "legal" it wouldn't be "stealing." :rolleyes:

Hightower207505
07-24-2008, 10:56 PM
1800 - Increase restraints on combative patient

1813 - Restrain combative patient and hold down for sedation meds

1950 - Search new psych patient on a hold

2000 to 0200 - Tours, reports, staff escorts

0208 - Adult male down and unresponsive in front of ER, assist bringing him in

0232 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0240 - Search intoxicated patient on a hold

0300 - Search another intoxicated on a hold

0320 - Restrain another combative patient

0354 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0400 - Search another intoxicated patient on a hold

0410 - Restrain another combative patient

0435 - Restrain another combative patient and hold down for sedation meds

0445 - Hold down patient for sedation meds

0455 - Restrain another combative patient

0530 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0537 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

0540 - Release another patients' restraints (now cooperative)

This was on a Tuesday. All individual patient calls require their own report.:(


Sounds like my night except half of the ER was getting water leaks every 3 feet

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 12:41 AM
If it was "legal" it wouldn't be "stealing." ~ Sgtnewby

If it was illegal than why can police officers introduce trash evidence in court?

When I was working street LE, our narcotics unit always would steal trash...from private property (that is in sgtnewbys definition), to further build their investigations. This is a common practice, not sure what ballpark you are playing in, but you need to check your law code.

I see no basis for trespassing, that seems ridiculous. Do you arrest every person who walks on your property? Of course not, I'm allowed to be there and trash is considered public information.

Liability? For who? The client? Well they authorize it and pay for it, so your liability arguement is thrown out the window. Also, just because something has the potential to have liability, does not make it illegal.

Are your opinions rooted in any facts? Or are you just spewing baseless opinions?

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 12:44 AM
http://www.paghat.com/dumpster.html

Your trash may be locked or gated....I think any person/LEO with a brain knows you can't break a lock, but as I stated before...completely legal.

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 12:50 AM
http://www.fightidentitytheft.com/shred_supreme_court.html

A link to the Supreme Court Case that ruled trashpicking legal.

Also, in situations where there is a "no trespassing" sign, some courts have ruled that the removal of the trash is legal, due to the fact that a reasonable person could assume it to be worthless by the owner and abandoned.

Also, nothing would stop an individual from waiting on the other side of the gate for the dump truck to exit the prohibited area and getting permission from the "waste technicians" to remove the newly deposited bags. They can say no, but typically they don't care, especially when you explain to them that you are a LEO/Investigator.

MUNSEC
07-25-2008, 03:02 AM
http://www.fightidentitytheft.com/shred_supreme_court.html

A link to the Supreme Court Case that ruled trashpicking legal.

Also, in situations where there is a "no trespassing" sign, some courts have ruled that the removal of the trash is legal, due to the fact that a reasonable person could assume it to be worthless by the owner and abandoned.

Also, nothing would stop an individual from waiting on the other side of the gate for the dump truck to exit the prohibited area and getting permission from the "waste technicians" to remove the newly deposited bags. They can say no, but typically they don't care, especially when you explain to them that you are a LEO/Investigator.

That case seems to refer to trash left at the curb on a public street, sgtnewby's point would seem to be related to person's entering private property to rummage through the trash. luckily, in my neck of the woods a persons "right" to be on the property exsists only for so long as the property owner allows and can be withdrawn at anytime. :D

MUNSEC
07-25-2008, 03:20 AM
If it was "legal" it wouldn't be "stealing." ~ Sgtnewby

If it was illegal than why can police officers introduce trash evidence in court?

When I was working street LE, our narcotics unit always would steal trash...from private property (that is in sgtnewbys definition), to further build their investigations. This is a common practice, not sure what ballpark you are playing in, but you need to check your law code.

I see no basis for trespassing, that seems ridiculous. Do you arrest every person who walks on your property? Of course not, I'm allowed to be there and trash is considered public information.

Liability? For who? The client? Well they authorize it and pay for it, so your liability arguement is thrown out the window. Also, just because something has the potential to have liability, does not make it illegal.

Are your opinions rooted in any facts? Or are you just spewing baseless opinions?

I can also see where sgtnewby is coming from with regards to liability. The property owner could be liable for injury incured by a person rummaging about in their dumpster, if the case is made that the property owner did not take all reasonable precautions to prevent such injury (such as having the onsite security force prevent unauthorized persons from being in the dumpsters) anyhoo thats what they tell us around here, maybe liability issues are not such an issue in the USA:D

UtahProtectionForce
07-25-2008, 06:22 AM
there where no trespassing signs, also signs stating private property, also and here in utah, it is a crime to rummage through some ones trash, as it is still there property untill the refuse company takes control of the items...

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 07:01 AM
can also see where sgtnewby is coming from with regards to liability. The property owner could be liable for injury incured by a person rummaging about in their dumpster, if the case is made that the property owner did not take all reasonable precautions to prevent such injury (such as having the onsite security force prevent unauthorized persons from being in the dumpsters) anyhoo thats what they tell us around here, maybe liability issues are not such an issue in the USA ~ Munsec

So, that doesn't make it illegal.

That case seems to refer to trash left at the curb on a public street ~ Munsec

It refers to trash on the curb, but typically that trash is still on the private property owners land.

You people are forgetting, that not everyone who goes on private property is trespassing.

there where no trespassing signs, also signs stating private property, also and here in utah, it is a crime to rummage through some ones trash, as it is still there property untill the refuse company takes control of the items...~ Utah

Gotcha, what law is it exactly? So your saying you can charge them with theft? What is the legal statute?

Badge714
07-25-2008, 09:38 AM
About ten years ago, late on a Friday night I found a woman digging with a pole in a dumpster behind a small strip mall I patrolled. I noticed that she had a new car, was dressed pretty well, and smelled a lot nicer than most of the rabble I encountered in alleys, which I found a bit curious.

I talked to her for awhile, and found that she makes about $800 a month selling stuff she finds in dumpsters behind businesses at yard sales and on eBay! I was a bit skeptical until she showed me a back seat full of really expensive, unused, towels, washcloths, linens, etc. that she found in the dumpster behind Bed, Bath & Beyond. Apparently they cannot resell such items in Minnesota after they have been returned to the store, used or not.

The woman told me that she never goes into a dumpster with a fence around it, or opens a locked dumpster. She also told me that the local cops know her and stop to chat once in awhile. (I verified this with the Edina PD) She told she she has been run off by guards or store managers, and stays away from those places. I took her info and told her "Happy Diving!"

I encountered her a few more times after that, and she always had some interesting finds. Once she showed me a water cooler jug 1/3 full of pennies she found in a dumpster by some college apartments. When the kids move out in the summer, they trash all kinds of goodies!

After seeing the stuff she found, I started looking in dumpsters, too! I even made a few hundred bucks selling stuff on eBay. Once I found four small gasoline-powered water pumps in a client's dumpster. I asked the client if they were really tossing them, as they were brand new - never had gas in them. I thought that maybe an employee stashed them to pick up later. Nope. They were discontinued models and they tossed them! After getting the client to sign a property pass for me, I took them home. The pumps retailed at $325 each! :D I gave 3 to my brothers and my dad, and kept one for myself. If my basement ever fills with water, I'm ready!

Last spring, the Crosby hospital gave me a 32 foot tower that was behind a building they're tearing down. I'm going to mount my amateur radio antennas on it. I also loads of 12v gel cell back-up batteries from their trash pile that were removed from medical equipment. The batteries are still good, but had reached the dates they had to be replaced per the manufacturer. I supplied my amateur radio emergency service team and the Skywarn hams with all the back-up batteries they could use! Some of them cost $75 new.

If you're looking for a way to make a few extra bucks, or to just find some stuff you can use, check out a few dumpsters! You'll be surprised at what you will find! :D

mjw064
07-25-2008, 09:51 AM
If it was "legal" it wouldn't be "stealing." :rolleyes:

If it is in a trash container, it would no longer be theft of any sort. The threshold that the courts generally accept is any trash container that is an area not immediately connected to a building. Anything that has been clearly disposed of becomes public property.

MUNSEC
07-25-2008, 02:39 PM
can also see where sgtnewby is coming from with regards to liability. The property owner could be liable for injury incured by a person rummaging about in their dumpster, if the case is made that the property owner did not take all reasonable precautions to prevent such injury (such as having the onsite security force prevent unauthorized persons from being in the dumpsters) anyhoo thats what they tell us around here, maybe liability issues are not such an issue in the USA ~ Munsec


So, that doesn't make it illegal.

That case seems to refer to trash left at the curb on a public street ~ Munsec

It refers to trash on the curb, but typically that trash is still on the private property owners land.


You people are forgetting, that not everyone who goes on private property is trespassing.

there where no trespassing signs, also signs stating private property, also and here in utah, it is a crime to rummage through some ones trash, as it is still there property untill the refuse company takes control of the items...~ Utah

Gotcha, what law is it exactly? So your saying you can charge them with theft? What is the legal statute?

You are right the liability issue does not make the act illegal, but it certainly behooves the property owner to prevent the act from occurring. Fortunately, I do not have to deal with some of the issues you guys seem to have regarding trespassing, if I find someone on property I am responsible for who's hanging out in the dumpster's, I simply have to give them verbal notice to leave and not return. Our Provincial Petty Trespass Act specifically names the property of my employer in it and makes a verbal notice equal to posted signage forbidding trespass. Just curious, what constitutes trespass in your area CaptainAmerica? seems like people can come and go as they please, that must make for tough times in the security biz :D

CameraMan
07-25-2008, 02:45 PM
I'll bet he works in a mall or somewhere else where people are invited in.

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 02:57 PM
I'll bet he works in a mall or somewhere else where people are invited in ~ Cameraman

Was that directed at me?

CameraMan
07-25-2008, 03:02 PM
It was in responce to


Just curious, what constitutes trespass in your area CaptainAmerica? seems like people can come and go as they please, that must make for tough times in the security biz

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 03:08 PM
Couldn't tell if you were saying I work at a mall, or the other poster.

Still can't.

CameraMan
07-25-2008, 03:10 PM
I was saying I'll bet you (CaptianAmerica) work at a mall (where people are invited to come in) and therefore have a different perspective on tresspassing (to the point where you don't see much wrong about a bunch of guys dumpster diving).

Captain_America21
07-25-2008, 04:17 PM
Yeah I'm a beat walking mall ninja.

That's why I'm so de-sensitized about people jumping in dumpsters. Good observation sport!

MUNSEC
07-25-2008, 06:16 PM
Yeah I'm a beat walking mall ninja.

That's why I'm so de-sensitized about people jumping in dumpsters. Good observation sport!

Sarcasm meter just jumped a notch:rolleyes:

CorpSec
07-25-2008, 08:30 PM
We dumpster dived as kids and I can remember that after the folks at the local K-Mart (we were young and didn't have any taste) saw us a couple of times, they started pouring bleach over the trash to discourage us.

The Payless shoe store would put nice sized slashes in the side of the shoes they threw away. One kid took them home and his mom just sewed up the gash and he wore them anyway.

mjw064
07-25-2008, 08:32 PM
Yeah I'm a beat walking mall ninja.

That's why I'm so de-sensitized about people jumping in dumpsters. Good observation sport!

At your mall do you wear white shirts and smokey hats?

DeputyJ
07-25-2008, 10:46 PM
Captain America,

I believe, SgtNewby was refering to your post when you said you could legally steal trash. SgtNewby was pointing out that because it is legal (which I don't think he was disputing) then your not stealing.

By the way SgtNewby appears to be a good guy, I don't think there is any need to jump over him. Of couse it does make for interesting reading.

Stay Safe.

copelandamuffy
07-25-2008, 11:34 PM
0600 Relieve over night Guard Paul. Informs me Skunks stealing turtle eggs.
0700. Blimp flew over Guard Shack.
0715 Jet passenger plane flew over gatehouse on the way to Boston's Logan airport. Wave at passengers. They do not wave back. Called command center.
Told to write up an Incident Report reporting on rude passengers on plane.
0730. Patrol of 144 Acres of woods. CSX trains slumbers down rail road
track. Engineer waves at Security Guard.
0800. Ducks are fighting in the roadway
0900. Frogs in pond making lots or noise. Asked them to quiet down
1000. FEDEX stops at Guard Shack
1100. Field Supevisor stops by. Brings coffee. Cream and Sugar
1130. Patrol of woods. Bees and bugs flying arouund. Security Officer
has sprayed Insect Repelent on himself.
1200. Allied Waste, BFI picks up weekly trash
1215. Lunch. Mash Potatoes, Gravy, Meat Loaf. Can of diet Pepsi
Must call lovely wife of 26 years and thank her for nice meal.
1230. Field Supevisor calls. Ask if I would work at another post for
the weekend at a new store that does not have an alarm just yet
Security Officer is quessing the Cup of Coffee brought by
Field Supervisor was a bribe that Security Officer would say yes
to this detail. Security Officer agrees to work Sunday.
1300 Police do turn around in front of Gatehouse. It is Officer Maria
She waves hello.
1315. Security Officer cleans bathroom and mops floor of Guard Shack.
Mr. Clean, Ajax the foaming cleanser, and Bounty towels.
1400 Officer William relieves Guard. that would be me.

We are in a very remote area. 144 acers of land to patrol. Many woods
to do tours on.

sgtnewby
07-26-2008, 09:35 PM
That case seems to refer to trash left at the curb on a public street, sgtnewby's point would seem to be related to person's entering private property to rummage through the trash. luckily, in my neck of the woods a persons "right" to be on the property exsists only for so long as the property owner allows and can be withdrawn at anytime. :D

Exactly. Because of the liability, we have cctv on the dumpsters. Our dispatch calls us when a person is seen on property "dumpster diving." We show up, order them to put everything back that they have removed, and to leave the property. If they refuse to leave, we hook them up for trespassing. We've done it before, and it's been backed by the city and county attorneys.

sgtnewby
07-26-2008, 09:44 PM
Captain America,

I believe, SgtNewby was refering to your post when you said you could legally steal trash. SgtNewby was pointing out that because it is legal (which I don't think he was disputing) then your not stealing.

By the way SgtNewby appears to be a good guy, I don't think there is any need to jump over him. Of couse it does make for interesting reading.

Stay Safe.
DeputyJ,
If you think his posts are jumping all over me, you should see the private message he sent me.... :rolleyes:

MUNSEC
07-27-2008, 11:42 AM
DeputyJ,
If you think his posts are jumping all over me, you should see the private message he sent me.... :rolleyes:

It's unfortunate when people react like that:(

mjw064
07-27-2008, 11:51 AM
We show up, order them to put everything back that they have removed, and to leave the property. If they refuse to leave, we hook them up for trespassing. We've done it before, and it's been backed by the city and county attorneys.

Quid Pro Quo ... This For That

Of course the people doing this are probably scumbags and would never get legal counsel beyond a public defender, but that whole thing sounds like a major lawsuit waiting to happen.

The courts have upheld that items in a trash container are public property ... even when the trash container is sitting on private property ... which is why the police do not need a search warrant to go through someone's trash, once it is outside of a building.

Thus, you are ordering them to put public property back in the dumpster under the threat of arresting them for Trespassing if they do not do so, which equates to a Quid Pro Quo situation.

Thus, I would see that as problematic, although I certainly understand the point.

Captain_America21
07-27-2008, 08:26 PM
We've done it before, and it's been backed by the city and county attorneys. ~ Newby

I'd like to see proof of that.

sgtnewby
07-28-2008, 12:16 AM
We've done it before, and it's been backed by the city and county attorneys. ~ Newby

I'd like to see proof of that.

You know what, you're right. You know everything, the rest of us know nothing. None of us here could possibly know more then you about any subject.

I've worked with people like you before. No matter what we've done or experienced, you've done it too, but you've done it better and it was more spectacular. :rolleyes:

LPCap
07-28-2008, 12:36 AM
You know what, you're right. You know everything, the rest of us know nothing. None of us here could possibly know more then you about any subject.

I've worked with people like you before. No matter what we've done or experienced, you've done it too, but you've done it better and it was more spectacular. :rolleyes:

Commonly referred to as a "security guard" or one upper, or........nah I won't mention his name....heh;) ;) ;) j/k this is a joke..

Badge714
07-28-2008, 02:45 AM
We've done it before, and it's been backed by the city and county attorneys. ~ Newby

I'd like to see proof of that.

Minnesota State Statute 609.605 (b) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:... (3) trespasses on the premises of another and, without claim of right, refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor;

Once they refuse to leave, they are trespassing. I advise people that they are on private property and have to leave and if they do not leave they will be arrested. If they don't leave immediately, I arrest them. I've done it many times; never had it challenged in court.

sgtnewby
07-28-2008, 03:21 AM
Minnesota State Statute 609.605 (b) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:... (3) trespasses on the premises of another and, without claim of right, refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor;

Once they refuse to leave, they are trespassing. I advise people that they are on private property and have to leave and if they do not leave they will be arrested. If they don't leave immediately, I arrest them. I've done it many times; never had it challenged in court.

Thank you 714. :cool:

msofin
07-28-2008, 03:28 AM
Captain_America21, curious, since you have stated you are in Pennsylvania, have you completed Act 235 training and received certification yet?

MUNSEC
07-28-2008, 05:33 PM
Is it illegal to jump in a dumpster?

When I was a (still do some work) PI, I use to do "garbage pulls" all the time.

Just curious.

This is his original post, in light of his following posts it would seem he was simply "trolling", since he has now revealed he knows all the answers on the topic:rolleyes:

MUNSEC
07-28-2008, 05:36 PM
You know what, you're right. You know everything, the rest of us know nothing. None of us here could possibly know more then you about any subject.

I've worked with people like you before. No matter what we've done or experienced, you've done it too, but you've done it better and it was more spectacular. :rolleyes:

Geez newby, don't jump all over the guy like that, we are richer for having known him:D :D :D

copelandamuffy
07-28-2008, 05:43 PM
while im on duty....

on 07-16

Had a prositute in building showering in common restroom
Had a Guy steal an air compressor.
Had a water line break.

on 07-17

off

on 07-18

Had a Fight at the bar
Almost had another fight

on 07-19

Quiet at the bar, until last two minutes of shift 10 man fight

on 07-20

off

on 07-21

Caught some one trying to steal some pipes.
Semi hit a car sending it smashing over an airconditioner
some one broke into leasing office

on 07-22

Some on broke lock on pool gate
Parking gate broken
police on site towing a drug car
booted a car for handicap violation

0n 7-23

Helped some guy retrive his property that someone else in the complex stole.
he got his cellphone and dufflebag back.
caught 5-6 hispanic males trying to jump into dumpster, called police on them.



blah.................. tooooo many incident reports lol...


I had to put my glasses on. When I read "Had a prositute in building showering in common restroom" I thought I read "Helped prositute in building showering in common restroom"

Whew!!! I could see myself going home and tell my wife what I did on
my daily tour.:)

HotelSecurity
07-28-2008, 06:04 PM
This is his original post, in light of his following posts it would seem he was simply "trolling", since he has now revealed he knows all the answers on the topic:rolleyes:

That is why he is the ONLY member on my ignore list. He has been a member since 2007 & seems to "troll" by every once in a while, usually to insult someone else:rolleyes:

Captain_America21
07-28-2008, 07:26 PM
You know what, you're right. You know everything, the rest of us know nothing. None of us here could possibly know more then you about any subject.

I've worked with people like you before. No matter what we've done or experienced, you've done it too, but you've done it better and it was more spectacular. ~ Sgtnewby

1) I have more experience than you in several areas. If I feel my experience, training, education, and expertise is greater than yours on a subject, than I will assert my opinions. I will not compromise what I know to be the truth simply to appease someone else. If you would like to compare expertise, I would be happy to comply.

If you aren't capable of discussing a subject with someone who has greater knowledge than you, than you should refrain from posting. You (as I) have the ability to learn from other posters, however if you are unable to do that simply because you don't care from me, than your presence and opinion on this subject should be ignored.

2) I really have no sympathy for your complaints about me asserting my experience over your own. Like it or not, some people DO have more knowledge than you, some people have more training than you, and some people DO have more experience. Thats life. If I were in a debate with Curtis Ballie regarding LP (among other subjects) he could (and should) assert his knowledge and experience of the subject matter over mmy own. I enjoy debate, however I will not "dumb down" my opinions simply because you feel that you are being treated unfairly.

3) All I asked for was some kind of proof and I was given the above reply. Not only did your response not answer my question, it made you look unable to back your statements up with concrete evidence. Anyone who makes an open statement should be prepared to back it up in some manner. If unable to do so (unless you are just stating opinion), than your feelings should stay private.

Minnesota State Statute 609.605 (b) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:... (3) trespasses on the premises of another and, without claim of right, refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor;

Once they refuse to leave, they are trespassing. I advise people that they are on private property and have to leave and if they do not leave they will be arrested. If they don't leave immediately, I arrest them. I've done it many times; never had it challenged in court. ~ Badge714

Thank you 714. ~ Sgtnewby

This post is irrelevant to the debate. I know the definition of trespassing very well, and I can assure you that simply posting the legal code regarding the violation is nothing more than a diversion of the argument.

1) The discussion is not whether or not Trespassing is illegal. We all know it is, so posting the legal verbage is unnecessary. The debate was in regards to the removal of garbage. While trespassing issues may a rise, it is not the focal point of the discussion. As posted before, if the container is not locked or gated, the removal of the contents is legal.

2) Many of you need to read up on your legal code. Many of you are asserting that simply because individual A walked onto the property of Individual B, trespassing has occured. You are wrong in that statement. While an office building may be private property, public access is allowed. Therefore, I have a right to be on that property until otherwise directed by the property owners, or in some cases their security personel.

3) Even if I was asked to leave I could still take the already retrieved garbage. That garbage is considered public property, therefore you would not have the authority to make me hand it over.

4) While some issues may a rise if an invidual was approached by a property owner or security officer, if that individual was not approached or ordered to leave the premise...no violation has occured.

Captain_America21, curious, since you have stated you are in Pennsylvania, have you completed Act 235 training and received certification yet? ~ Munsec

Yes. And if you are about to regurgitate some lesson you learned on trespassing while taking 235 than please refrain from doing so. As I stated before, this is not a debate on the legality on Trespassing.

That is why he is the ONLY member on my ignore list. He has been a member since 2007 & seems to "troll" by every once in a while, usually to insult someone else ~ HotelSecurity

Your action to put me on your "ignore" list is meaningless to me at best. However, I will not tolerate someone making bold-faced lies about me. I joined this board no more than 3 months ago, having previously never even viewed the site. If you would like to challenge that, than I hope you are ready to provide some sort of evidence to support your baseless claim. Otherwise you should think twice before making false accusations about someone.

Captain_America21
07-28-2008, 07:35 PM
Also, remember that I am not asserting that dumpster diving, in all forms, in all locations, is ALWAYS legal. As I have said, certain issues can a rise. However, dumpster diving (information retrieval as some call it) is a common practice. Unless specifically prohibited by state or local law, the actions is considered legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Greenwood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katz_v._United_States

"By a 6-2 vote (Justice Kennedy took no part in the case), the Court held that under the Fourth Amendment, no warrant was necessary to search the trash because Greenwood had no reasonable expectation of privacy in it. Although Greenwood had hidden the trash from view by putting in opaque plastic bags and expected it to be on the street only a short time before it would be taken to the dump, the Court believed it to be “common knowledge” that garbage at the side of the street is “readily accessible to animals, children, scavengers, snoops, and other members of the public.” Moreover, Greenwood had left the trash there expressly so that the trash collector, a stranger, could take it. Quoting Katz v. United States, the court concluded that "[w]hat a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy

I think the above link may clear up some confusion regarding the trespassing and public information issue for some posters.

MUNSEC
07-28-2008, 08:06 PM
You know what, you're right. You know everything, the rest of us know nothing. None of us here could possibly know more then you about any subject.

I've worked with people like you before. No matter what we've done or experienced, you've done it too, but you've done it better and it was more spectacular. ~ Sgtnewby

1) I have more experience than you in several areas. If I feel my experience, training, education, and expertise is greater than yours on a subject, than I will assert my opinions. I will not compromise what I know to be the truth simply to appease someone else. If you would like to compare expertise, I would be happy to comply.

If you aren't capable of discussing a subject with someone who has greater knowledge than you, than you should refrain from posting. You (as I) have the ability to learn from other posters, however if you are unable to do that simply because you don't care from me, than your presence and opinion on this subject should be ignored.

2) I really have no sympathy for your complaints about me asserting my experience over your own. Like it or not, some people DO have more knowledge than you, some people have more training than you, and some people DO have more experience. Thats life. If I were in a debate with Curtis Ballie regarding LP (among other subjects) he could (and should) assert his knowledge and experience of the subject matter over mmy own. I enjoy debate, however I will not "dumb down" my opinions simply because you feel that you are being treated unfairly.

3) All I asked for was some kind of proof and I was given the above reply. Not only did your response not answer my question, it made you look unable to back your statements up with concrete evidence. Anyone who makes an open statement should be prepared to back it up in some manner. If unable to do so (unless you are just stating opinion), than your feelings should stay private.

Minnesota State Statute 609.605 (b) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:... (3) trespasses on the premises of another and, without claim of right, refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor;

Once they refuse to leave, they are trespassing. I advise people that they are on private property and have to leave and if they do not leave they will be arrested. If they don't leave immediately, I arrest them. I've done it many times; never had it challenged in court. ~ Badge714

Thank you 714. ~ Sgtnewby

This post is irrelevant to the debate. I know the definition of trespassing very well, and I can assure you that simply posting the legal code regarding the violation is nothing more than a diversion of the argument.

1) The discussion is not whether or not Trespassing is illegal. We all know it is, so posting the legal verbage is unnecessary. The debate was in regards to the removal of garbage. While trespassing issues may a rise, it is not the focal point of the discussion. As posted before, if the container is not locked or gated, the removal of the contents is legal.

2) Many of you need to read up on your legal code. Many of you are asserting that simply because individual A walked onto the property of Individual B, trespassing has occured. You are wrong in that statement. While an office building may be private property, public access is allowed. Therefore, I have a right to be on that property until otherwise directed by the property owners, or in some cases their security personel.

3) Even if I was asked to leave I could still take the already retrieved garbage. That garbage is considered public property, therefore you would not have the authority to make me hand it over.

4) While some issues may a rise if an invidual was approached by a property owner or security officer, if that individual was not approached or ordered to leave the premise...no violation has occured.


Captain_America21, curious, since you have stated you are in Pennsylvania, have you completed Act 235 training and received certification yet? ~ Munsec

Yes. And if you are about to regurgitate some lesson you learned on trespassing while taking 235 than please refrain from doing so. As I stated before, this is not a debate on the legality on Trespassing.

That is why he is the ONLY member on my ignore list. He has been a member since 2007 & seems to "troll" by every once in a while, usually to insult someone else ~ HotelSecurity

Your action to put me on your "ignore" list is meaningless to me at best. However, I will not tolerate someone making bold-faced lies about me. I joined this board no more than 3 months ago, having previously never even viewed the site. If you would like to challenge that, than I hope you are ready to provide some sort of evidence to support your baseless claim. Otherwise you should think twice before making false accusations about someone.

Hey, someone with your much greater experience should not make the mistake of mis-quoting someone:p

Captain_America21
07-28-2008, 08:18 PM
Well I apologize for that.

However, I should post stronger words against yourself. If you are fishing for a stronger retaliation and trying to bait me with your childish rhetoric, than I suggest you take your filth to someone else.

ghostguy6
07-28-2008, 08:22 PM
19:45 Start shift, begin setup of chairs and tables
19:47 fire extingisher stolen from main bar and found discharged in downstairs mens bathroom ( janitors most likely)
19:53 downstairs mens room closed and locked due to dust hazzard by order of GM
20:25 Delivery driver drops welding acetylene tank, tank vents so fire department called
20:32 fire department arrives
21:28 fire department leaves and allows club to be opened
21:46 Fake ID used by minor at front door, minor also in possesion if 15 oz bottle of polar ice vodka, vodka confesscated and poured down drain
22:30 Male found smoking dope in upstairs mens room, 2nd stall, forcablely removed from club
23:17 fight on dance floor, women bottled on head, first aid preformed in office, recommended ambulance be called but woman had friend driver her to ER
23:38 Men from previous fight start a second fight outside, police called
00:41 report of staff members car broken into, drivers window smashed, Cd's and duffel bag of clothes stolen
01:55 8 man fight on dance floor, all partons removed and fight continued off property, police called, several arrests, one injured officer, ambulance parks on SW corner of property
02:04 man punches bar tender after being told he could not be served alcohol after 02:00, man taken to police outside and turned over to them
02:30 fight at lobby, men refusing to leave club at closing, once outsides mans girlfriend peppersprays 2 security personnel and runs away
02:35 front doors closed and locked
03:40 Second staff members car broken into, drivers window smashed, nothing noticable stolen
04:15 arrive home

MUNSEC
07-28-2008, 08:32 PM
Well I apologize for that.

However, I should post stronger words against yourself. If you are fishing for a stronger retaliation and trying to bait me with your childish rhetoric, than I suggest you take your filth to someone else.

Me:eek: What did I do? "childish rhetoric", "filth":eek: you obviously have me confused with someone else, please provide proof of your outlandish statements:confused:

Curtis Baillie
07-28-2008, 09:46 PM
Let's all please tone down the rhetoric - It's only garbage you know. Let's leave out the insults.

The original post was about the different things that happened on a shift - this has turned into a you-know-what contest.

MUNSEC
07-28-2008, 09:52 PM
Let's all please tone down the rhetoric - It's only garbage you know. Let's leave out the insults.

The original post was about the different things that happened on a shift - this has turned into a you-know-what contest.

A reasonable request, on to other things....

Curtis Baillie
07-28-2008, 09:54 PM
Thanks....Now I can get back to 'How I met Your Mother.":)

LPCap
07-28-2008, 10:48 PM
This forum is held to a higher standard.

Thank You.

Captain_America21
07-29-2008, 01:02 AM
Me What did I do? "childish rhetoric", "filth" you obviously have me confused with someone else, please provide proof of your outlandish statements ~ Munsec

Yes I consider this childish...

This is his original post, in light of his following posts it would seem he was simply "trolling", since he has now revealed he knows all the answers on the topic ~ Munsec

Regardless, Ballie is correct. But, if you would like to continue the debate either here or on a separate thread based on legal code/precedent/law than I will be happy to comply.

Mr. Chaple
07-29-2008, 08:32 AM
Thanks....Now I can get back to 'How I met Your Mother.":)

I know things are getting tense in here, but you leave my mother out of this.

UtahProtectionForce
07-29-2008, 09:55 AM
Layton Outlaws Dumpster Diving
November 7th, 2005 @ 7:17am
LAYTON, Utah (AP) -- As a move against identity theft, the City Council has outlawed "Dumpster diving."

The council unanimously approved the ordinance during its Thursday meeting based on the recommendation of the city's legal counsel.

City Attorney Gary Crane said the ordinance, which prohibits people from scavenging through other people's garbage, is similar to an ordinance adopted in Orem.

It does not apply to police, trash collectors and or the owners, who may have to go through the garbage if they mistakenly throw something away.

The ordinance gives police a proactive investigative tool, said Layton Assistant Chief Craig Gibson.

"In Layton, we do not see a lot of (identity theft), but we do see some," he said.

The ordinance gives police the authority to investigate a potential theft in the process, rather having to wait before reacting to it, he said.

The ordinance takes effect immediately.


--- Salt lake city has the same law. im not sure where to look up city ords online. but heres a simple news story that 95% of the cities here in utah made law. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=126132

CameraMan
07-29-2008, 11:58 AM
Thanks....Now I can get back to 'How I met Your Mother.":)

Probably the funniest show now on TV. Which doesn't say that much for TV.