Anti-Terrorism Training

[Norseman]

I wanted to field a question to the security officers out there.

How many of you think anti-terrorism training should be required as part of the certification process to become a security officer?

[SpecialAgentKC]

My $0.02: Antiterrorism training was required for every soldier when I served, regardless of duty assignment or military occupational specialty. That's because in today's assymetrical battlespace, there's not necessarily a front line in the traditional sense.

Moreover, situational awareness should be developed and ingrained in all potentially involved in the detection or consequence management of a incident with a nexus to terrorism. I believe this holds true for security personnel as well. I'm involved in critical infrastructure protection for municipal water systems. It would militate against common sense if I wasn't required to have this type of background/expertise.

What of the mall security guard? He protects a soft target. Often times, soft targets are a "juicier" sort to someone bent on mayhem. I attended a Department of Homeland Security Frontline Responder instructor course that provides an excellent curriculum for those protecting soft targets.

I highly recommend this or a similar course. After all, as they point out: security personnel are not truly first responders in most cases. They're ALREADY at the site and are therefore deemed Frontline Responders. There is wide recognition of the value of security personnel as aiders, incident commanders, witnesses and, God willing, threat terminators.

(I apologize for the long post, but, I'm most passionate about this topic). --K.

[secguy]

Yes.........paid for by the U.S. Government. Any training that would be required would certainly help in our normal duties and probably supply training that is not normally provided to become a SO.

The thought that comes to mind is how basic/extensive would the training have to be and against what type of threat(s) (other than bomb).

[inman]

Here is the toc for some stuff I use for training.

[SpecialAgentKC]

Actually, the Frontline Responders: Protecting Soft Targets course is designed for private security officials. It was crafted by University of Nevada-Las Vegas in conjunction with and under the auspices of DHS. The course, when offered, is free of charge as I understood it we weren't supposed to charge for facilitating it. I was one of the only military people in the room when I attended....

Also, the Antiterrorism Accreditation Board (ATAB) www.goatab.org has an interesting collection of AT materials suitable for governmental and private venues and ventures. Many of the FEMA/NFA/EMI courses would also be helpful, particularly "Emergency Response to Terrorism" (Q-534) and are available free of charge. --K.

[N. A. Corbier]

Some states are requiring a block of "anti-terrorism training," but because the way their training systems works... That is whatever the instructor decides that is.

Most of the training is summed up as:
- Watch for people taking pictures.
- Watch for arabs.
- Call 911.

[craig333]

Actually it is part of the curriculum here in CA. We must have spent a good hour going over it. Maybe it was two hours.

Whoops, just looked in my training manual. 4 hours. Thirty pages of material.

[Norseman]

SpecialAgentKC,

It nice to know there are others out there with a passion towards AT/FP. I agree wholeheartedly that AT/FP training should be required training for all SOs. In addition, there should be required annual training as well! The biggest problem is standardization of materials and we all know there is a cost involved that no one wants to pick up—including the government.

For those of you who have not already done so, I would recommend reading the Al Qaeda Training Manual. It has a lot of good information. If you do not have a lot of time on your hands, read Lesson 12 Espionage first. It covers information gathering using covert methods. The manual does a decent job of providing the reader with different intelligence gather techniques. It is pretty much written like a filed manual (baring the translation).

[timorourkecps]

Hi Guys

Florida requires 3.0 Hrs of Terrorism Awareness to be licensed in the State as an SO since Jan-2005. But as others have pointed out- those working critical infrastructure should be trained beyond just awareness. To many have by passed the Officer's training needs and bought CCTV's (so the incident will at least be well documented) and other security technology (some good- some not so much) in hopes of I don't no- stopping it?

The point is S/O's need the training- supported by technology! That's ProActive- now where many fall off the boat is... what happens when the terrorist are not detoured by the pro-active measures? What are your re-active capabilities? You can NOT have a truly effective security program without both.

End of Rant!

[N. A. Corbier]

A lot of companies will tell you that the only good reaction is to call 911 and offer no resistance, be a good witness, and continue to observe and report.

[Maelstrom]

A lot of companies will tell you that the only good reaction is to call 911 and offer no resistance, be a good witness, and continue to observe and report.


Interesting... offering no resistance makes the task easier for the terrorist, what's the point of being a good witness & observing if you never get to pass that information on, aren't such extremists often willing to die (and kill others) in order to achieve their goal?

[SpecialAgentKC]

Interesting... offering no resistance makes the task easier for the terrorist, what's the point of being a good witness & observing if you never get to pass that information on, aren't such extremists often willing to die (and kill others) in order to achieve their goal?

Often times this is the case. Moreover, many of the current tactics of certain terrorist elements include the elimination of guard force personnel to initiate the attack. --K.

[timorourkecps]

The ideas of “observe and report” in today’s environment where security is charged with protecting critical infrastructure is like calling the doctor after the ME has pronounced you dead!

If there is no substance behind the security effort, i.e.; reactive capabilities, you have little more then a lot of pretty window dressing in your proactive efforts only!

And we all know what is in the window; manikins that are unable to respond to the breaking glass and empty boxes with big pretty ribbons on top.

[N. A. Corbier]

The ideas of “observe and report” in today’s environment where security is charged with protecting critical infrastructure is like calling the doctor after the ME has pronounced you dead!

If there is no substance behind the security effort, i.e.; reactive capabilities, you have little more then a lot of pretty window dressing in your proactive efforts only!

And we all know what is in the window; manikins that are unable to respond to the breaking glass and empty boxes with big pretty ribbons on top.

But its so much more profitable to hire a guy who just got his D on his own dime, pay him 7 an hour, and have him wear uniforms from the thrift shop with your company patch sewn on. After all, the state gives security guards all the training they require, so you don't actually have to spend money or time training them.

You know, folks, it frightens me how easily I can write this %#@!.

[timorourkecps]

NA

You've pegged the *W.B.O.'s and that mentality has no place in securing our nations critical infrastructure. Doing the Right Thing is not the hard thing to do- it's the Right Thing To Do! Kind of reminds me of the ethics class question- "isn't it always hard to do the right thing?" :)

The more people like I see on this forum keep talking and the more of you that create businesses and stick to doing things from a practitioners view and not a bottom line driven company, I see a brighter future. It just takes a couple guys interested in moving the ball forward and not compromising.

The problem is what I'm sure some of you will point out to me is; "they started out Ok but then it all changed".

BTW: Sorry for wadding in to the pool here with the grace of a baby whale. I've been away for awhile and have not contributed as much as I would have liked to over the past couple years. If I've stepped out of line or on toes - it was not my intent. The subject matter of this thread is however something I'm a little familiar with.

Sincere Regards

Tim O'Rourke

* warm body outfits

[junkyarddog]

We just completed 20 hours of anti-terrorism training over the past week. I thought this was a federal mandate.

[Chucky]

Could someone please be a little more specific? So you see a 5 ton truck barreling toward your post loaded with Nitrate or you suspect someone is wearing a vest loaded with C4 and his finger is on the trigger. The truth is there is nothing you can do. Well you could observe and call 911 to report your sudden demise or if armed you could fire a mag into the air and some will duck avoiding the main blast.

But if you are talking about some nut entering a classroom and wasting students then that's not terrorism it's what it is a nut gone wild and that can be dealt with. And if you could find a legit anti terrorism program then why would your company want to get involved in it? It's not what most of us get paid to do anyway. How would you have stopped Tim McVeigh? Before you suggest blocking all traffic around all the targets in the U.S. remember we are a free society not the Green Zone in Baghdad.

[junkyarddog]

NA

You've pegged the *W.B.O.'s and that mentality has no place in securing our nations critical infrastructure. Doing the Right Thing is not the hard thing to do- it's the Right Thing To Do! Kind of reminds me of the ethics class question- "isn't it always hard to do the right thing?" :)

The more people like I see on this forum keep talking and the more of you that create businesses and stick to doing things from a practitioners view and not a bottom line driven company, I see a brighter future. It just takes a couple guys interested in moving the ball forward and not compromising.


If it costs 100k a year to staff a post 24/7 @ $9.00/hour (uniforms and all), a company has to look at what they will lose in that year if they DO NOT secure the site with actual staff. 99% of the time, the loss will not amount to even close to 100k. And that is a WBO. So the profit/loss analysis does not even justify warm body security. It definitely will not justify actual professional security.

On the CIP side of things, it is the Nations responsibility to secure its critical infrastructure, not the actual private owners of that infrastructure. That means congress has to pass laws mandating criteria for CIP and provide cost-off setting grants to ensure that private ownership is indeed meeting those criteria.




The problem is what I'm sure some of you will point out to me is; "they started out Ok but then it all changed".


That is the way it goes. It makes sense. When a company is a startup- its first 5-10 years of business- it gains business through word of mouth and a good reputation. The marketing money just isn't there yet. When the same company starts making a profit, then a large profit, it starts relying less on reputation and more on marketing for its business. You get to the point where the company has strong brand recognition and instead of struggling to survive and turn a profit is now developing strategies for market share dominance. More money to marketing means less to the actual security guards. But by now, word of mouth and reputation do not matter. Sad but true. Look at Barton Protective Services.

[DeputyJ]

A couple of years ago I was one of the instructors for my department's Weapons of Mass Destruction Awarness course. We taught not only our deputies, but campus police, DA investigators, medical examiners and parking enforcement officers. A point I drove home with the parking enforcement officers is that they know what vehicles belong and do not belong in their beat. An aware parking enforcement officer could be the difference between a successful terrorist attack and one that isn't.

I believe an aware security officer could make all the difference in the world in preventing or at least lessoning the impact of a terror attack. Think about it, security officers who are assigned a regular post know the faces of all the regulars. A good security officer will know when something is out of place at their site.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Stay Safe.

[N. A. Corbier]

NA

You've pegged the *W.B.O.'s and that mentality has no place in securing our nations critical infrastructure. Doing the Right Thing is not the hard thing to do- it's the Right Thing To Do! Kind of reminds me of the ethics class question- "isn't it always hard to do the right thing?" :)

The more people like I see on this forum keep talking and the more of you that create businesses and stick to doing things from a practitioners view and not a bottom line driven company, I see a brighter future. It just takes a couple guys interested in moving the ball forward and not compromising.

The problem is what I'm sure some of you will point out to me is; "they started out Ok but then it all changed".

BTW: Sorry for wadding in to the pool here with the grace of a baby whale. I've been away for awhile and have not contributed as much as I would have liked to over the past couple years. If I've stepped out of line or on toes - it was not my intent. The subject matter of this thread is however something I'm a little familiar with.

Sincere Regards

Tim O'Rourke

* warm body outfits

Jump in, you're doing fine.

[N. A. Corbier]

If it costs 100k a year to staff a post 24/7 @ $9.00/hour (uniforms and all), a company has to look at what they will lose in that year if they DO NOT secure the site with actual staff. 99% of the time, the loss will not amount to even close to 100k. And that is a WBO. So the profit/loss analysis does not even justify warm body security. It definitely will not justify actual professional security.

I have to ask something. Who the hell bids $9.00 a man hour for even idiot guards? The national average is like... 12? For slack jawed unarmed guys who were hired that day.

I'd say anyone paying 9 an hour for their guard firm doesn't need or want guards, someone is making them get guard service, as part of a contractual obligation.

[junkyarddog]

I have to ask something. Who the hell bids $9.00 a man hour for even idiot guards? The national average is like... 12? For slack jawed unarmed guys who were hired that day.

I'd say anyone paying 9 an hour for their guard firm doesn't need or want guards, someone is making them get guard service, as part of a contractual obligation.

The $9.00 is what the guard gets, not what the guard is bid for by the contractor. Even so, what your saying is true. It was just an example.

[timorourkecps]

Hello

junkyarddog: got your point on "risk v. expense", yet a lot critical infrastructure properties are dealing with not just a terrorist threat but the everyday common criminal elements.

Take copper thief, a guy rips your HVAC unit apart for the $200 or $300 dollars in copper inside. What does it cost you to replace the unit- on your home, $3,000 to $5,000. So for the company hit for 100k reported in the news can translate to $1.M for the company.

N. A. Corbier: sorry for the delay- been on the road ;-)

Chucky: your right- guy wakes up jumps into his VBIED packed with 1000 lbs of nasty and drives it to his local WalMart – we are not going to stop it, unless we get lucky. The reality is terrorist do not operate that way- they do planning, and recon. These planning stages are where a good teamed trained in AT/FP get the job done, stopping the attack –before it happens! But as I pointed out in a prior post- which I will not go into detail about here some CIP's do have ways to deal with your example.

DeputyK - I agree 100%. The more open communication encouraged by LEO and Security for all kinds of professionals, contractors, visitors etc to assist and report things out of place to them helps greatly.

junkyarddog: regarding the 20 hours I’ve not heard that- can you provide more information on that?

Stay Safe


Tim

[wvd1979]

I think security officers should be trained on what to look for in their daily routine. Then if they do spot something suspicious, they should know some basic steps that can be taken to reduce the loss of life if the attack is launched.

It would be worth it, even if the guards cannot save everyone. A lot of lives were saved on 9/11 because people helped guide others out of the WTC towers.

[junkyarddog]

Hello

junkyarddog: got your point on "risk v. expense", yet a lot critical infrastructure properties are dealing with not just a terrorist threat but the everyday common criminal elements.

Take copper thief, a guy rips your HVAC unit apart for the $200 or $300 dollars in copper inside. What does it cost you to replace the unit- on your home, $3,000 to $5,000. So for the company hit for 100k reported in the news can translate to $1.M for the company.


Your right. I had the same discussion with someone on the job recently, who knows allot more than I do, and he said the same thing. $60,000 of ground wires ripped out of an electrical substation can cost hundreds of thousands or more to fix.

The risk vs expense element is still there though. Just doesn't make sense for the cost of securing a thing to be greater than the value of the thing its self.



regarding the 20 hours I’ve not heard that- can you provide more information on that?


It is just something I was told when we were doing the training. That is really all the info. I have.

[timorourkecps]

It would be worth it, even if the guards cannot save everyone. A lot of lives were saved on 9/11 because people helped guide others out of the WTC towers.


Security elements as well as WTC workers themselves drilled all the time since the first attacks lead by Ramzi Yousef in 1993. If 9-11 would have happened in any other part of the USA, to buildings of the same or greater size of the WTC, I feel the loose of life would have been much greater. Simply because no one trained or was more prepared for that kind of mass evac- then the folks at the WTC.

[Nauticus]

To add to all of these comments, I argue that a good amount of security officers shouldn't be trained in anti-terrorism because they seem unable to complete their job as it is.

[wvd1979]

To add to all of these comments, I argue that a good amount of security officers shouldn't be trained in anti-terrorism because they seem unable to complete their job as it is.

You are right about that. Although that is more of a reflection on the management of a particular site. If the company asks for an unsupervised warm body for $7 per hour, that is what they will get.

[timorourkecps]

Before we go much further- lets make the clear difference between the two anti-terrorism and terrorism awareness. Awareness is something I think which is everyone’s business.

Awareness is simply that, how to spot suspect activities and who do you report the information to! Regardless of your security function this is an element of training that all officers need to be exposed to. If we say it is not what they do. Does that mean your local Law Enforcement should not worry about terrorism either? Just push the car down the road- write tickets and focus on crime ONLY!?! Is this what some of you are saying? Better yet. It is for the Federal Government’s 3-letter agencies and the 2% of the nations LEO's tasked with this mission to worry about? Everybody else put your head in the sand or clouds and hope for the best!

Awareness is everyone’s job- from the nosy neighbor (in the "oh yeah" neighborhood watch program-because police cannot be everywhere, to the passenger on the plane with or without and FAM) to everyone that wears a public safety title; leo, security, fire, etc.

Having said that- I do agree with you on “anti-terrorism” that is the job of those trained to deal with this problem. They also have a mission that does not cross the CT role, but does assist in the larger picture.

End of rant.

Have a Great week all and remember May 11th, is Mothers Day.

Tim

[SRTUNIT2576]

http://www.homelandsecurityssi.com/ssi/content/view/278/192/

[SpecialAgentKC]

Before we go much further- lets make the clear difference between the two anti-terrorism and terrorism awareness. Awareness is something I think which is everyone’s business....

I can certainly appreciate the distinction. However, as you know, many AT/FP programs, such as DOD's include the "Level 1" as more of the awareness tier. At any rate, this is still appropriate for your vanilla guard. However, those with higher level AT/FP duties and responsibilities--whether they are civilian or military--obviously require much more training.

On another note, I just wanted to remark that your S2 Institute has an excellent website. My agency has pondered using your online ATO course for our contract guards or others that are not necessarily professional CIP LEOs, but, are involved in CIP activities. --K.

[timorourkecps]

K.C.

Thank you for the in put and kind words regarding the site. Currently the online platform is being used by a number of public leo, mil and private agencies around the world and we are very proud of how it all works. Yet without the person at the other end we are nothing.

So thank you and all who keep watch.

Stay Safe

Tim

[SecTrainer]

My agency has pondered using your online ATO course for our contract guards or others that are not necessarily professional CIP LEOs, but, are involved in CIP activities. --K.

PM me for insights/info on this if you wish. Thanks.

[timorourkecps]

KC

Sorry- just got back into my office and started reviewing post. I'm not sure if you have visited or taken any programs we offer... but if you would like to see one to T&E and see if it may meet your needs, let me know.

The Demo shows how part of the programs is presented- with the instructor presenting his/her material and the slides advancing as if you where in a classroom. What you do not see from this demo is that you can download the workbook for the full program- then take the test and at the end if you pass get your certificate right then and there!

Follow link to page and hit launch demo button. Run time is about 15 minutes entitled: Malevolent Bomb Threat Strategies (RIRA Case Study)

http://www.s2institute.com/content/_pages_s2online/coursedemos.php#

To see what the inside looks like and how it functions you can visit the following link: http://www.s2institute.com/content/_pages_s2online/tutorial2.php

For a background on the instructors visit the S2 Instructor page and to find out the instructors background and what courses they teach online or on the road just click there picture. http://www.s2institute.com/content/_pages_about/instructors.php



Stay Safe & Enjoy

Tim

[Bloodsng]

A friend of mine works for the rail road and was making a run to Exxon. The tracks run to the back fence while he was waiting there for a go ahead he saw 3 guys cut the fence and drive in stop and start taking pics. He called his dispatcher who told him to forget about it, then he called me I went ballistic gothim to give me the description of the people the car and the lic. told him to get of the phone with me and call Exxon security and I called the local PD.
Later my friend called me and said all heck broke lose when security got there then the FBI the PD and some guys in suits. The car was impounded and carried away under a tarp the three guys where toted of by the MIB. Nothing was said on the news but my friend got an award from the RR (a hat big whoop).

All we can do is be aware of what is around us and act accordingly if a u haul is charging our way with ammonia and fertilizer there is not much we can do but try and stop it (after bending over and kissing our ___ good by). BUT if we see an unusual package by a pipe or a dusting of white dust where there shouldn't be some say like a handrail then we can act. Contact the right people block off areas and say a silent prayer.

Blood

[Bill Warnock]

Blood that is way it is supposed to happen!
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[theconstipated1]

To add to all of these comments, I argue that a good amount of security officers shouldn't be trained in anti-terrorism because they seem unable to complete their job as it is.


I concur , I alot them can not even spell Anti- Terrorism.Needless to say pass the training. I ask some of my security officers to do something ,it does not matter how simple the task is and they still manage to F... it up!!,but don`t get me wrong I got a few good officers that would n`t mind putting them through that training if the company was willing to pay for it. But you know companies nowdays. They just want someone with a pulse.