What should one do...

[doulos Christou]

If they are more certified than their management? I was curious about my personal certifications so I went on the TXDPS website. While I was there, I searched for my SGT's name. He only holds a non-commissioned card in the State of Texas while I hold both Non-com and com. Should I consider applying somewhere for a managerial position? Any ideas, thoughts, etc.?

[doulos Christou]

should I just gut it out and work my way up to mgmt?

[NRM_Oz]

What are you studying in college Dougo and how far are off from completion ?

Perhaps look at both avenues - as you never know what opportunities may come about in the future. A nice suit and tie helps as well, but no cowboy boots ok ?

[doulos Christou]

Oh c'mon, Oz. I'm in Texas, you don't wear cowboy boots and you don't get a second glance for a job. Hahaha...


I'm actually studying theology in college and have roughly 1.5 years left. I am going to do some work on a biz admin/mgmt degree to kind of bolster my resume. I am still intending to go LEO after a few years, but this is where I wanna stay for a few years.

[N. A. Corbier]

To put this perspective, your supervisor has an unarmed guard card and you have an armed guard card.

What other industry certifications, if any does he have? CPP? CPO? etc. How long has he been in the industry?

I would find out what prospective employer expects for their entry level supervisory personnel.

[doulos Christou]

As far as I have been able to find out, he has no other cert or anything recognized by TXDPS, our governing body. I mentioned going to get my PPO license the other day and he said he was unfamiliar with such a card. It makes me wonder if he went straight into paper pushing or if the company was short-handed and just pushed him up rather than hiring from the outside.

[Eric]

You have to do what is right for you in the end, and I am sure you know it takes more than a certificate to be a good leader. I always encouraged others to attain more as they most often would make me look better. :D

[HotelSecurity]

I have 3 years of Police Technology, trained as an EMT, took firefighting courses & have certificates in Hotel Security Management amongst other things. My boss has none of this. My boss deals daily directly with the owner of the hotel. He knowns how to play the political game. I don't. We make a great team. Each has their place.

[NickTX]

I have this same problem quite a bit of the time It is pretty common that I have much more training and experience then my management. Although I don't have "management" training per se as I have never been a desk worker type of person. The training I have had without a doubt far exceeds the Industry Standard for Commissioned Security Officers here in Texas.

It has been my personal observation that a lot of companies particularly smaller companies do not promote on merit for the most part. It's mainly about company loyalty with most companies that I have seen. I noticed earlier in a different thread someone said "Good guards are rare and leave as soon as there is a better offer elsewhere." and that guy is absolutely correct. I take my expertise, training and experience to the highest bidder. I am not in this to do a community service nor am I loyal to a company I am loyal to the almighty dollar.

However this is because I have been hosed by enough companies now to realize that I should never get too cozy with a company nor should I ever expect to be offered a management position no matter how good I am at my job or how hard I work. Unfortunately Security work is a business that is most efficiently run light on the management end. Its quite workable for very few managers to oversee hundreds of guards and most companies will take the highly trained and experienced officers and place them on their high profile sites but they won't promote.

Maybe this is just the way the local market is here but it is what it is.

[Security Leader]

The higher you get on the ladder the less technical expertise you actually need. You start to move more into strategic thinking over the long term. So you may have more technical certifications then a manager in your company but he may have more training looking at the big picture, thinking long term, and leading the company forward. Everyone has their role to play. If you moved into a higher position you may start to let some of those certifications lapse or not continue to seek that type of training because you are focusing more on other things that do not require the type of technical expertise that is necessary on the lower levels.

[HotelSecurity]

The higher you get on the ladder the less technical expertise you actually need. You start to move more into strategic thinking over the long term. So you may have more technical certifications then a manager in your company but he may have more training looking at the big picture, thinking long term, and leading the company forward. Everyone has their role to play. If you moved into a higher position you may start to let some of those certifications lapse or not continue to seek that type of training because you are focusing more on other things that do not require the type of technical expertise that is necessary on the lower levels.

Agreed. My brother was in charge of the repair centre for Radio Shack in all of eastern Canada. He had no electrical technology background but did have a lot of management experience.

[NRM_Oz]

Like building a house, the plumber is the expert in pipes, the sparky does the wiring, the chippie does the carpententy the tiler does the roofing and the poor bugger brickie with the sore back does the walls and gets paid per brick. The builder brings them all together (takes his cut) and MAY have a good understanding but will speak with the plumber about a sudden drainage issue who is the expert in that side of things.

I have project managed the security operations of our DC in another state but I don't know more than the CCTV technician but have worked on my designs and his input in making it all come together. We all have our expertise so there should be someone who has the qualifications and certifications to maintain their positions and whilst not be the expert have enough knowledge to complete their duties.

So Dougo if I ever go back to Texas again besides going back to the Galleria to get lost in Houston or being shocked by the bloody traffic or actually going into a restaurant and seeing CHUCK NORRIS with his performing toupe (I spotted him leaving and missed my chance for an autography I should look out for a LEO Theologist wearing a Cowboy Hat and boots ? But no gun rack right ?

As another poster said, I would cover your backside so that you are compliant and that you have the opportunities to progress with your company or with another. Our new state laws have kicked in and now the penalties go up to $52k US PER OFFENCE, so I for 1 am not going to lose my career because a company is non-compliant with the laws.

[badge212]

As far as I have been able to find out, he has no other cert or anything recognized by TXDPS, our governing body. I mentioned going to get my PPO license the other day and he said he was unfamiliar with such a card. It makes me wonder if he went straight into paper pushing or if the company was short-handed and just pushed him up rather than hiring from the outside.


Dougo,

Though I agree with most of what NRM_Oz and Security Leader are saying you have to remember that in most corporate security situations (at least in Texas) there are three levels of security personnel. It sounds like you work for a contract company, is that correct? If you are more inclined to be promoted but stay within the front line I would suggest trying for an in-house company and taking courses such as the front line security supervisor course offered by the Texas Engineering Extension Service or a leadership & management certificate program such as those offered by most Texas community colleges. Though something more field specific such as a certification through IAHSS or ASIS doesn't hurt either. Hope this helps.

-J Rod.

[Bill Warnock]

I find fault with Security Leader's analogy pertaining to management when moving up the chain. How does one manage what one doesn't understand? It is all well and good to have staff positions that provide the manager (leadership), but fundamental knowledge if essential.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[doulos Christou]

Dougo,

Though I agree with most of what NRM_Oz and Security Leader are saying you have to remember that in most corporate security situations (at least in Texas) there are three levels of security personnel. It sounds like you work for a contract company, is that correct? If you are more inclined to be promoted but stay within the front line I would suggest trying for an in-house company and taking courses such as the front line security supervisor course offered by the Texas Engineering Extension Service or a leadership & management certificate program such as those offered by most Texas community colleges. Though something more field specific such as a certification through IAHSS or ASIS doesn't hurt either. Hope this helps.

-J Rod.

Yea, I work contract. I am not too clear on the in-house thing, never really lookd into it and have no real idea about where to start looking...

[Security Leader]

I find fault with Security Leader's analogy pertaining to management when moving up the chain. How does one manage what one doesn't understand? It is all well and good to have staff positions that provide the manager (leadership), but fundamental knowledge if essential.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

You still need to understand what is being done but you do not need to have the technical certification to manage the process. For instance, the manager of a wherehouse may not need to be a certified forklift operator where as someone who works for him does. Not being certified to operate a forklift doesn't detract from his ability to manage the processes and lead the people of the wherehouse.

At the same time the person who is driving the forklift doesn't really need to have an advanced understanding of where the company wants to be strategically in 3-5 years. The manager will have to have that understanding to successfully lead the company in the right direction.

I do agree with what you are saying though in that someone who knows absolutely nothing about a specific business can't really manage the business effectively. I said the higher up you go the less technical expertise you need. So first line supervisors still need a high level of technical expertise; the managers above them need a little less specific technical knowledge and it continues to decrease as you go up.

[Security]

EDIT- Posting deleted.

[NRM_Oz]

We have a saying here "Jack of all trades - master of none" which sums up many lines of work in our industry. A good understanding goes a long way but at the same time, any education is useless if not utilised or maintained which is why I no longer chase up every seminar or course for a few days of interest and a free lunch. Just don't have the time to spend with people trying to sell me stuff I may not need.

[NickTX]

Yea, I work contract. I am not too clear on the in-house thing, never really lookd into it and have no real idea about where to start looking...

Dougo i haven't seen many In house operations in Texas really. I know USAA has an in house operation however most companies even if they do an in house operation do it by just creating a separate security company. That has been my personal experience and what I have seen in the field anyway.

I wouldn't mind getting on with USAA's security team though.

[badge212]

Yea, I work contract. I am not too clear on the in-house thing, never really lookd into it and have no real idea about where to start looking...

Your in Austin right? For in house look at maybe Seton Healthcare, St. Davids Healthcare, Attorney Generals Office. Since your looking to maybe go LEO long run you may also want to look at Austin ISD, University of Texas, LCRA

Just some ideas . . .

[doulos Christou]

LCRA would be my dream job. Unfortunately, college gets in the friggin way all the time. I am going to be looking into in-house operations here in the very near future. Thanks for the ideas.

BTW...what is USAA?

[gixxer32404]

In Texas, what's the difference between commissioned and non? What are you allowed to carry? Detain or arrest rights? do they have off duty concealed weapon licenses? what are the requirements of training?

[doulos Christou]

In Texas, what's the difference between commissioned and non? What are you allowed to carry? Detain or arrest rights? do they have off duty concealed weapon licenses? what are the requirements of training?

Non-Commissioned:
Can carry OC, Taser, Cuffs.
Have arrest rights for felonies in sight or view, public disturbance in presence or view and to prevent the conseuqences of theft.

Commissioned:
Same as above with the addition of carrying firearm (handgun or shotgun) and batons.

What is an "off duty concealed weapon license"?

As far as requirements:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/

[gixxer32404]

thanks, off duty concealed is a concealed weapon license that general citizens can use to carry a concealed weapon but in fla our ccw license isn't useable while on duty as a pi or so,or recovery agent.

[doulos Christou]

thanks, off duty concealed is a concealed weapon license that general citizens can use to carry a concealed weapon but in fla our ccw license isn't useable while on duty as a pi or so,or recovery agent.


Oh ok, in TX it's just a CHL. We have reciprocity with FL. Ours is totally independent of security as well.

[gixxer32404]

cool. I 've been out of work for awhile.and there''s no cdlpoitions open here. The security here pays $8.00/hr armed. checks late or bounce.I checked into a waterbourne security company in highlands,tx that seem to be out of business w/many complaints on them. Ever heard of seawolf marine patrol? Any ideas of finding a good armed job in Florida?

[gixxer32404]

I thought it sounded too good tobe true. riding on boats while patrolling. I also checked into private security transporting prisoners. I applied ,but would have to move, as well. still waiting on response.

I'm also waiting to hear from an apartment complex who was technically looking for a live in cop.But I told them the state would allow me to work armed for them since I have licenses,if I were actually an employee, and not a contract position.

[doulos Christou]

I think workin on the water would be cool for a while. I wonder if it would kill my love of boating though. Same thing happened when I worked as a mechanic, stopped enjoying tinkering on rods, thought it all felt like work...