New cop cars.

[Mr. Security]

What do you think about the new Dodge police cars? The dealers hope to give Ford a run for their money on the Crown Vic. Apparently, the Chevy Impala is not a big hit with many departments. NYC plans to buy a fleet of the new Dodge cruisers, but the Conn. State Police have already said: "Thanks, but no thanks."

[Bill Warnock]

What do you think about the new Dodge police cars? The dealers hope to give Ford a run for their money on the Crown Vic. Apparently, the Chevy Impala is not a big hit with many departments. NYC plans to buy a fleet of the new Dodge cruisers, but the Conn. State Police have already said: "Thanks, but no thanks."
It would be nice to have a vehicle of the "packaged" Fury series updated and put on the street. Mr. Security I'm a victim of wishful thinking.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[N. A. Corbier]

Local police use Impala. I couldn't fit into an Impala if I tried. :)

[Lawson]

I'll stick with a CVPI anyday.

[OccamsRazor]

I still like the Expedition, though a local agency that uses Tahoes likes them well enough.

[Charger]

Agency I used to work for used the Impalas... They weren't BAD persay... but the power was almost identical to the CVPI, with a lot less interior room... The Dodge Intrepid that they tried to market as a PD vehicle was MUCH roomier than the Imp or CVPI, but was weak power-wise, and ended up with a lot of brake problems....

Personally, I'm a big-time Dodge guy, so it was great to see them getting back into the fray with the new Charger... Michigan just posted their results of the comparison tests a couple weeks ago, and with the exception of the 'ergonomics' portion, the Dodge vehicles blew all the other competition away... Even the v6 models had more power than the CVPIs... And amazingly enough, the HEMI models got BETTER mileage than the CVPIs that had engines almost a whole litre smaller.... Ahh, the wonders of modern technology... ;)

[1stWatch]

I have not seen the new Dodge models. The police where I live recently made a partial switch to the Dodge Intrepid. My opinion of it is it's a piece of crap. They already have the front ends of them falling off and getting axles bent. The tires are low profile so the ride is rough and there isn't enough room inside the car.

[Serpico]

Local police use Impala. I couldn't fit into an Impala if I tried. :)


I did a ride along with a Dept that uses the Impala. I'm 6'3 and around 260. You'd be surprised, they're not that hard to get in and out of.

[wisconsinite]

I remember when the WI State Patrol used to use Mustang's and Camaro's.
Talk about, being able to close the gap on a high-speed pursuit, huh?
LOL. But now they use thier trusty Crown Victoria, and rely on spike strips...

[N. A. Corbier]

I remember when the WI State Patrol used to use Mustang's and Camaro's.
Talk about, being able to close the gap on a high-speed pursuit, huh?
LOL. But now they use thier trusty Crown Victoria, and rely on spike strips...

At least they use spikes. I remember a pursuit going down the road next to my property. It was a local Tampa Police hangout. We watched the pursuit roll by at 70 MPH after we cleared the street for them to roll though. When I asked, "Does anybody have spike strips," my friend replied, "We have to call FHP for spikes."

[Mr. Security]

Local police use Impala. I couldn't fit into an Impala if I tried. :)

When I stopped for patch in SC, the trooper complained that he couldn't even fit his gear in the Impala. I did a ride-along in one, and it is tight with all the radios, etc. packed into the center console. Handles better in the snow here, but that's about it.

[Warren]

Our local PD test drove a new Charger, and also said thanks, but no thanks.

Some of the reasons were:
-rear window 'hangs' over the back seat (higher risk for kick out)
-trunk opening to narrow to accomodate emergency kits which have already been purchased/made.
-all equipment such as barriers, door panels, window screens etc would have to be changed. (our PD re-uses everything they can).

THose were the major reasons, but included in the decision to NOT buy them was that they would have to stock seperate parts for the Dodge in the already over crowded parts dept. at the garage. (This shop does maintenance on all city owned vehicles.)

I do like the idea of some real competition for the Crown Victoria. Over the years I have seen the Crown Vic cheapened and cheapened.

[Mr. Security]

.......
I do like the idea of some real competition for the Crown Victoria. Over the years I have seen the Crown Vic cheapened and cheapened.

For city PD's, how about the Taurus?

[wvd1979]

I may be mistaken, but I believe part of Ford's restructuring plan after those layoffs was to stop production of the Crown Vic. If that's the case it will be interesting to see the new market for public safety sedans.

[N. A. Corbier]

Guys at O.com say that Ford won't stop production of the CVPI anytime soon, because the ICAP just keeps buying them up.

I do know, however, that if it wasn't for large fleet commitments by agencies and the Federal Government, the CV frame would of been axed long ago. Only people who want CV frames are the elderly, the moderately wealthy, and fleet customers.

The elderly are now driving Cadillacs. The moderately wealthy are now driving SUVs. And Fleet Customers are now driving CVPI and Expeditions.

[Mr. Security]

And the extremely wealthy, Hummers. Ho Hum. :D

[Charger]

For city PD's, how about the Taurus?

The PD in my home town used Taurus' in the late 80s/early 90s... They didn't look too bad, but they were weak in comparison, and not as roomy... And if you thought trannys in the CVPIs were bad, stay AWAY from the Taurus.. ;)
The new Taurus' have the same problems.. Local PD here uses one for the civilian volunteer patrol program, but that's about it... They're just not suited for real Police work..

[EMTGuard]

I do know, however, that if it wasn't for large fleet commitments by agencies and the Federal Government, the CV frame would of been axed long ago. Only people who want CV frames are the elderly, the moderately wealthy, and fleet customers.
.
What about the hundreds of Taxi companies that use a CV in their fleet? I think I read that the Taxi services can even buy a taxi package that is longer than the police package due to a larger trunk. I may be wrong about that but it's been awhile since I read that article. As popular as these vehicles are I can't imagine Ford doing away with it. Of course, some things corporations do these days blow my mind.

[Tennsix]

What about the hundreds of Taxi companies that use a CV in their fleet? I think I read that the Taxi services can even buy a taxi package that is longer than the police package due to a larger trunk. I may be wrong about that but it's been awhile since I read that article. As popular as these vehicles are I can't imagine Ford doing away with it. Of course, some things corporations do these days blow my mind.
Ford is keeping the fleet (including police interceptor) version of the vic. The "regular" version is being phased out.

[Mr. Security]

...And if you thought trannys in the CVPIs were bad...

I didn't know that. How bad are they?

[Charger]

I didn't know that. How bad are they?

Well, not to say the newer Impalas are any better, (3 of the cars at my last company needed new trannies after 50k miles), but I've heard a LOT of horror stories from cops about the trannies going out between 50-70k miles... And I've noticed that a LOT of the surplus CVPIs that the state sells have "Bad Transmission" written on the sales report... They're nice cars, and do the job well... You just have to be willing to pay for those repairs/replacements when necessary... ;)

[Mr. Security]

Well, not to say the newer Impalas are any better, (3 of the cars at my last company needed new trannies after 50k miles), but I've heard a LOT of horror stories from cops about the trannies going out between 50-70k miles... And I've noticed that a LOT of the surplus CVPIs that the state sells have "Bad Transmission" written on the sales report... They're nice cars, and do the job well... You just have to be willing to pay for those repairs/replacements when necessary... ;)

Yikes!! A new transmission will set you back 2-3 thousand. No wonder their so cheap on ebay.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Where I work, we use Chevy Impala's with lightbars, sirens, prisoner screen, etc. and me being 6'3" I don't have any problems getting in or out. Before I got hired here they used to use Dodge Intrepids but had some serious mechanical problems. Even though were large enough to have our own repair facility there was still a lot of down time. The Impalas have been reliable with a few minor problems. It will be interesting to see if Dodge has fixed the problems that they had with intrepid or if the Charger/Magnum will just be another intrepid. On a side note were going to get rid of our impalas and go to Chevy Colorados in the 4 door and delete the lightbar going with slicktops instead. I'm looking forward to this but a little nervous as the Colorado is still new (anyone hear anything on them)? Our fire dept uses them but don't have much to say. oh well time will tell.

[HotelSecurity]

The Borough of Verdun in Montreal has a By-law enforcement unit that up until 2 years ago used mini vans similar looking to the police mini vans but with a yellow flasher bar instead of red & blue. 2 years ago they decided to save money. They bought Toyota Echos. They pull up on kids causing a disturbance in a park now & get laughed at :o

[Lawson]

Probably not... as it appears the police there use mini-vans... according to his post. ;)

[mobilepatrol]

If you go to americancarfans.com there is a pic of the dodge charger and magnum all done up for the police... nice looking cars.

As far as what i drive for patrol are Honda Accords and Toyota Camerys, they are sweet cars, granted not v8 or v6's but still 2.4L and gives enough pep. The regional department (Peel police, Ontario Provincial Police) i have noticed that they went to the impalla but hated the front wheel drive and are now going back to the vic... in addition GM has changed the Impalla and specs with it.

I am waiting to see what the maintence records are for these and then i will compare them to mine... Maybe a north american auto manufacturer can make some thing that does not have a v8 (aka gas prices) and can stand up to the pounding of a life time.

Anyway chow

dave

[Mr. Security]

... Maybe a north american auto manufacturer can make some thing that does not have a v8 (aka gas prices) and can stand up to the pounding of a life time....

I doubt it. :(

[Mr. Security]

Some police departments use them and they have their purpose. Using them for quick response or pursuit is dangerous because of the high center of gravity, which increases the rollover risk. Why some LEO agencies use them as routine patrol vehicles never made sense to me. Not to mention the poor gas mileage.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Some police departments use them and they have their purpose. Using them for quick response or pursuit is dangerous because of the high center of gravity, which increases the rollover risk. Why some LEO agencies use them as routine patrol vehicles never made sense to me. Not to mention the poor gas mileage.

Tumwater, WA PD replaced all of their CVPI with Chevy Tahoes police package. They lowered them to increase safety and the officers love them. Roomy, powerful, coolfactor.

I need to gripe about the impalas though. I know in a previous post I said we had no major problems with them. Well since I made that post the damn things have been falling apart left and right :mad: . I recently drove one through the factory (5mph speed limit inside buildings) and noticed I was doing 10mph so I slowed down. Then when I got on the highway it said I was doing 120mph!!! Obviously I wasn't going that fast so it dawned on me that the speedometer was broken. That car has been out of service ever since. Another car broke down outside one of our buildings. Turns out the ignition wouldn't turn when you put the key in (our cars are fleet keyed). So car got pushed to automotive where the replaced the ignition. Down time - 5 hours (it helps having your own auto repair shop on property). We got another car that is having power steering problems. The power steering unit whines loudly every time you turn. Down time - none, slated for replacement. Finally, we had a patrol car have the brakes fail. The officer had to use the E-brake to stop. Down time - 1 week. All of this is on top of regular down time for preventitive maintenance :rolleyes: . As I mentioned before, we are replacing our impalas with Chevy Colorado pickups so hopefully they will be better.

[T202]

The Dept I retired from has several Tahoes, the 2WD version. They're not too bad to drive. I was reading the 2006 patrol vehicle evaluation and the Dodge Charger top out at 150mph. Here is the link if anybody likes reading about this kind of stuff.

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123--16274--,00.html

[Mr. Security]

The Dept I retired from has several Tahoes, the 2WD version. They're not too bad to drive. I was reading the 2006 patrol vehicle evaluation and the Dodge Charger top out at 150mph. Here is the link if anybody likes reading about this kind of stuff.

That's interesting. They certainly are thorough. :)

[darrell]

The Dept I retired from has several Tahoes, the 2WD version. They're not too bad to drive. I was reading the 2006 patrol vehicle evaluation and the Dodge Charger top out at 150mph. Here is the link if anybody likes reading about this kind of stuff.

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123--16274--,00.html


No thanks, Id rather go to Gratten Raceway and watch the testing first hand then read the stats..

My buddy decals, installs all lights and systems in all the MSP cars, Detroit PD and a few other departments. He says the chargers are smaller then they look inside and they are a PITA to put equipment.

If its a DODGE then its prone to the same problems, engine and transmission failure or an electrical fire.

[rentacop74]

hi to all

Thought id share this website on police vehicles and lights lots of live lightbar demos so with slower connections might take while its worth waiting pretty cool there are about 6 or so pages of this. enjoy there is alot of text but you can skip all that.


http://www.policemotorsdivision.com/

Tim :)

[N. A. Corbier]

hi to all

Thought id share this website on police vehicles and lights lots of live lightbar demos so with slower connections might take while its worth waiting pretty cool there are about 6 or so pages of this. enjoy there is alot of text but you can skip all that.


http://www.policemotorsdivision.com/

Tim :)
I don't know if their serious or not, but there's a specific disclaimer that may or may not matter, stating that they will prosecute any private individual or corporation attempting to view their website.

Personally, reading their website made me wonder if a computer wrote it. Its hilarious. Also, there's sound data on the website.

[ycaso77]

I haven't met a purchasing manager or fleet director who would sit still long enough to read that page. If its a confidential page put a darn password on it. If they think a poor graphic of a car is secret squirrel information, we need a password to keep THEM out. Extremely poor site with rambling text and poor grammar as already pointed out. Would you buy a car from someone with that website?

[Charger]

If its a DODGE then its prone to the same problems, engine and transmission failure or an electrical fire.

Not to start a vehicle debate or anything, but that's not really true... As far as LE vehicles go, Dodge (and the other DCX companies) held the majority for YEARS... It was in the late 80's/early 90's that they dropped out for the most part, and departments went to the Caprices & Vics... Then GM dropped their RWD lineup, leaving Ford with a monopoly on LE vehicles... Which stinks, because the CVPIs have had more engine/tranny problems than I've ever heard of the Caprices or Dodge vehicles having... Ask any "old school" cop, and they'll tell you they miss the old Caprices, Grand Furys, Diplomats, etc...

The biggest failure for the Intrepid as a LE vehicle, was the fact that it's FWD, and they were prone to major brake problems... The engines and trannies weren't an issue.. (Except that they were puny v6s and lacked power comparatively speaking)

I for one am looking forward to getting to ride/drive one of these new PP Chargers.. ;)

[ycaso77]

Not to start a vehicle debate or anything, but that's not really true... As far as LE vehicles go, Dodge (and the other DCX companies) held the majority for YEARS... It was in the late 80's/early 90's that they dropped out for the most part, and departments went to the Caprices & Vics... Then GM dropped their RWD lineup, leaving Ford with a monopoly on LE vehicles... Which stinks, because the CVPIs have had more engine/tranny problems than I've ever heard of the Caprices or Dodge vehicles having... Ask any "old school" cop, and they'll tell you they miss the old Caprices, Grand Furys, Diplomats, etc...

The biggest failure for the Intrepid as a LE vehicle, was the fact that it's FWD, and they were prone to major brake problems... The engines and trannies weren't an issue.. (Except that they were puny v6s and lacked power comparatively speaking)

I for one am looking forward to getting to ride/drive one of these new PP Chargers.. ;)


I know I'm really dating myself, but the first two cops cars I ever drove were a Ford Galaxie 500 and a Doge Polaris. Hands down I preferred the Dodge for strength and reliability. The Gran Fury won hands down over the Ford LTD II. Once Dodge resorted to the Diplomat though the end was near. I've used the Intrepid and would take the an Impala any day. I've driven and looked over the new Charger PP, not enough room and difficult to get in and out of. Also most PD's don't want to take the chance on a totally new vehicle with no track record on reliability and maintenance. The Intrepid was a poorly thought out attempt to squeeze back into the market and did more harm than good. With deals for departments doing mass buys of Crown Vics, its gonna be a tough sell for the Dodge.

[Charger]

...Also most PD's don't want to take the chance on a totally new vehicle with no track record on reliability and maintenance. The Intrepid was a poorly thought out attempt to squeeze back into the market and did more harm than good. With deals for departments doing mass buys of Crown Vics, its gonna be a tough sell for the Dodge.

Very true... Although things are looking good so far... Oregon State Police just bought a fleet of 45 of them a couple months ago, and I've heard nothing but good things so far... In fact, the ONLY complaint I've heard is that the volume knob for the stereo is too close to the shifter, so on occaision when putting it in gear in a hurry, the knuckle bumps the knob and the stereo suddenly starts blaring.... lol

[darrell]

Which stinks, because the CVPIs have had more engine/tranny problems than I've ever heard of the Caprices or Dodge vehicles having.


This is a very untrue statement. I don't know where you are obtaining the basis for your facts but you are wrong.


The LT1 transmission was a good Corvette tranny but its wasn't built to handle the torgue of the Caprice's engine and the body weight. You can obtain all the vehicle maintenace records from every department in the country and you will see that the Ford has the lowest maintence of any police vehicle on the road.

I can forsure support this statement with no less then 10 departments maintenance records.

1 of which my dad was in charge of keeping.

Port Huron has a fleet of 18 cars.

Chevys- 18 cars totaling 40+ tansmissions during the years of the whale.
Dodge- 18 cars, several fires from electronics, and 25+ transmissions
Ford- 18 Cars, 3 transmission problems

[Charger]

Port Huron has a fleet of 18 cars.

Chevys- 18 cars totaling 40+ tansmissions during the years of the whale.
Dodge- 18 cars, several fires from electronics, and 25+ transmissions
Ford- 18 Cars, 3 transmission problems

Well, the only thing I can tell you is either the guys in your area liked to abuse their Chevys, or the guys over here like to abuse their Fords... In this neck of the woods, Ford = bad trannies... ESPECIALLY in the vics and taurus'..
I've got friends in a lot of different LE agencies, and security patrol companies... And they all say the same thing...

I didn't think that the different regional styles of LE/security work would actually affect the reliability of the vehicles, but I suppose anything's possible.. ;)

[Echos13]

There is an insurance firm just inside of town that uses the City PD for thier security. But after hours and on the weekends I see this parked in the front. No one in sight I think it's a "fake" car to ward off problems. Could not see a company name on it. I didn't get out to check the tag because this area tends to have over zelaous cops that jump on anything that moves. Anyone recognize this design? Sorry about the text crap, the photo editing on this stie tends to be weird.

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[Mr. Security]

.....No one in sight I think it's a "fake" car to ward off problems.......

Not a bad idea. Especially if someone moves it around periodically. ;)

[N. A. Corbier]

Its an illegal vehicle by 493. It has white on the lightbar. :) I don't recongize it, though.

[Echos13]

The lightbar is an edge. Very similar to the ones the city uses. A crime prevention unit maybe by the city? The public safety officers of the city and the service deputies of the county use amber and white.

[N. A. Corbier]

The lightbar is an edge. Very similar to the ones the city uses. A crime prevention unit maybe by the city? The public safety officers of the city and the service deputies of the county use amber and white.

Its a city vehicle. I blew it up in photoshop. It says "CRIME PREVENTION" above enforcement. The rear has Emergency 911. The front is a badge logo with a city or state of Florida seal on it. Private Security company puts the state of Florida seal on their car, they're toast.

[darrell]

That is too much white light on a vehicle. White to the rear is never a good idea as it blinds motorists.

[N. A. Corbier]

That is too much white light on a vehicle. White to the rear is never a good idea as it blinds motorists.

That light bar cannot be activated on public roads under Florida State Statute, unless ordered by a law enforcement officer, or used as "hazard" lights. That's one of the reasons that they probably chose to use so much white, contract security companies may not use white (or any other color), only amber. It makes it obvious that its not a security company car, a tow truck, or anything else.

Florida DOT also uses 1/2 light bars for their state trucks.

[Echos13]

It's interesting. The Road Rangers (A division of the DOT) here run amber and white and some even red and white on thier trucks. DOT's public safety units run amber and white while the LEO section runs blue and white which all seem to be ether crown vics or the new Impala (yuk). Certain contract companies working along the roads here run all white especailly those corner strobes which have been what appears to be actually thier POVs or semi-owned company trucks and cars. But there are a few security vehicles I have seen with a combination of white and amber but not in solid arrangement. For the exception of TWC. Which run the all amber/strobe. Some have the new the NFPA Delta Series which is pretty cool.

[darrell]

Our DOT assistance crews used to run all amber but now they are considered emergency vehicles (as are tow trucks) when they are parked on the side of the road assisting a motorist. You have to slow down move over for them just like police/fire/ems.

So now our DOT Assistance people have the same red beacon that MSP has on their cars.

[N. A. Corbier]

It's interesting. The Road Rangers (A division of the DOT) here run amber and white and some even red and white on thier trucks. DOT's public safety units run amber and white while the LEO section runs blue and white which all seem to be ether crown vics or the new Impala (yuk). Certain contract companies working along the roads here run all white especailly those corner strobes which have been what appears to be actually thier POVs or semi-owned company trucks and cars. But there are a few security vehicles I have seen with a combination of white and amber but not in solid arrangement. For the exception of TWC. Which run the all amber/strobe. Some have the new the NFPA Delta Series which is pretty cool.
FSS 493.Something prohibits any licensed security officer from running any color of light, other than amber, while performing duties. FSS 312.Something authorizes licensed security personnel to operate an amber light while on public roads within their site.

Remember that running any color of light on public streets is a moving violation, unless you are exempt from the provision or are under a "hazard condition."

This is the same type of statute as the "force in defence of property" statute that makes it illegal for a licensed security officer to use force to protect property. Its something that a state investigator, a DMV investigator, or a law enforcement officer can use against a contract security company/person to have their license revoked.

People who aren't licensed security may run amber and white all they want on private property, but may not activate them unless under a "hazard condition" on public roads.

[N. A. Corbier]

Our DOT assistance crews used to run all amber but now they are considered emergency vehicles (as are tow trucks) when they are parked on the side of the road assisting a motorist. You have to slow down move over for them just like police/fire/ems.

So now our DOT Assistance people have the same red beacon that MSP has on their cars.
Our tow trucks up here are required to display a red light (No amber) when recovering a vehicle on a public roadway. After the recovery is complete, they may display amber lights during transport, or elect to display no light.

Our moveover law covers all public workers. DOT, Police, Ambulance, Fire, Public Utilities. Tow Trucks are also covered when displaying a flashing red light. Red, without a siren, however an emergency vehicle does not make.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

That is too much white light on a vehicle. White to the rear is never a good idea as it blinds motorists.

I disagree with this statement, clear is a very common lightbar color. You are making the assumption that the lightbar is fully equipped which it does not appear to be, it appears to be a 4 strobe 8 halogen flasher lightbar. This set up would put a lot of clear stobe light to the sides but not so much to the rear. Additionally, the bar appears to be old and not taken care of therefore the lenses are faded. Faded lenses drastically reduce light output. Here at Boeing where I work, we run Federal Signal Vista lightbars with clear domes and red/clear/red/clear/red color scheme. We do a lot of accident response on the freeway for our local pd and noone has ever complained about our clear lights.

In the state of Washington, an emergency vehicle is definded by the Washington State Patrol. This includes tow trucks as well as some security companies. the lightbar color or siren does not make it an emergency vehicle.

[darrell]

Michael I know enough about emergency lighting to know that is a 8 head Whelen Patriot Strobe bar with front flashers, take downs and rear flashers.

There is to much white on that bar, while a lot of construction companies use clear on a bar it's still blinding to motorists. That bar not only looks rediculas the way it is, but it also would blind motorists if used at night.

Thats one main reason the National Fire Fighters Association banned all white light to the rear on Fire Rigs.

[N. A. Corbier]

Honestly, that light bar won't be used. At all. It is there because they outfit a regular police car with all the regular gear, then transfer the lenses to another vehicle, using amber and clear for the "support" vehicles.

The huge white section helps the on duty police officers recongize that its not "just another security guard," and they should not bother with it. Its a city employee.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Michael I know enough about emergency lighting to know that is a 8 head Whelen Patriot Strobe bar with front flashers, take downs and rear flashers.

There is to much white on that bar, while a lot of construction companies use clear on a bar it's still blinding to motorists. That bar not only looks rediculas the way it is, but it also would blind motorists if used at night.

Thats one main reason the National Fire Fighters Association banned all white light to the rear on Fire Rigs.

I'm going to disagree with you again on this but first let me say I respect your opinon. First, it is not a Patriot strobe bar. The Whelen LFL Patriot stobe lightbar was released in 2000, this bar is much older. Also, the Patriot is a low profile lightbar at only 2.1" tall, this lightbar is much taller. The lightbar is infact a old style Whelen 9000 series strobe lightbar. While you may be right, they may use the patriot now, the one in that picture is not the patriot. I still believe that that particular lightbar is a 4 strobe, 8 flasher lightbar. The lenses over the inboard lights lead me to believe they are halogen and not strobe, strobe lights use a different set of optics. However, without seeing the bar lit I cannot be 100% certain so Darrell I will concede to you the fact that it is an 8 strobe 4 flasher lightbar. As for the clear, well I still stand by my original post. If it was a brand new lightbar it would be hella bright. This particular lightbar is heavily faded. That will cut down on light output drastically. Likewise, its an older bar which means it most likely has a 4 pattern power supply (Comet Flash, Rapid Single, Double Flash, Sequential) and the patterns do effect how 'bright' the light appears to the eye. The corner strobes are designed to put light out to the corners, so that would diminish the effect some to someong looking at the bar from the front or rear. If I am right and those are halogen flashers and not strobes then they are only 20,000cp which is not even as bright as car headlights. If you are right, and those are infact strobes then they would be much brighter. However, would not be too bright. Keep in mind that a strobe light lens is designed to defuse the light and spread it over a wide area.

The NFPA does not "ban" equipment. The NFPA is not a rulebook. Rather the NFPA merely puts out 'guidelines' but not rules. They may strongly recommend no clear to the rear, but they have no authority to enforce anything. The same is true for the 'KKK' lighting specs used for ambulances. While the 'KKK' lighting package specifies a minimum of 14 lights flashing in alternating or simultaneous sequence, there is no penalty for refusing to use 'KKK' lighting. Again, these are guidelines not laws.

[N. A. Corbier]

I'm of the opinion that its a Whelen Edge 9000 series, like Michael is. It doesn't look new enough to be a Liberty.

But... I think the inboard flashers are actually the smaller linear strobe tubes. The amount of customization you can do with an Edge, Liberty, etc... is impressive. The reason I say they're inboard strobes is because I believe you can see the strobe tubes in the center, instead of the rounded flasher reflector.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

I'm of the opinion that its a Whelen Edge 9000 series, like Michael is. It doesn't look new enough to be a Liberty.

But... I think the inboard flashers are actually the smaller linear strobe tubes. The amount of customization you can do with an Edge, Liberty, etc... is impressive. The reason I say they're inboard strobes is because I believe you can see the strobe tubes in the center, instead of the rounded flasher reflector.

Based on the lenses over the inboard lights, those are halogen lenses. You are absolutely right though, someone could easily pop out the halogen assembly and replace it with a strobe. Wouldn't be as effective, but I have seen it done several times. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a black section in the middle of the lightbar. Whelen stopped putting those black sections in their lightbars when the re-designed them in 2001.

[darrell]

Based on the lenses over the inboard lights, those are halogen lenses. You are absolutely right though, someone could easily pop out the halogen assembly and replace it with a strobe. Wouldn't be as effective, but I have seen it done several times. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a black section in the middle of the lightbar. Whelen stopped putting those black sections in their lightbars when the re-designed them in 2001.

Redesigned yes BUT they still sell the bars with the black sections if you want them.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Redesigned yes BUT they still sell the bars with the black sections if you want them.


The new bars can no longer have a black section period. The new bars, both the 9M series and the Ultra Edge series, are modular bars. This means that all the bars are built the same. Even if you order a basic 4 strobe lightbar it is still built the same. The nice thing about modular lightbars is all the options; takedowns, flashers, inboard strobes are all the same size. So when you need to upgrade or change options its a matter of plug and play, very cool. The reason Whelen got rid of the black section is 1) it looks tacky and 2) it won't fit over the modular sections. A black section would cover two spaces rendering them useless if you only need one. The nice thing about it is 1) the new lenses are "clearer" allowing more light 2) even where no lights exsist you still have color lenses which add to the effectiveness of the lightbar. I suppose you could customize a black section if you really wanted one but you would not get one from the factory.

Darrell, please don't take my responses as being a jerk or smarta$$. Lightbars and police vehicle equipment are my hobby. Some people study guns or cars I study lightbars. My information comes from manufacturers and manufacturer representitives. As mentioned before, I respect your opinion and appreciate the 'debate'.

[darrell]

1) I aint a smart A$$ or jerk
2) Call Whelen and ask them about the edge strobe bar and the black section and PM me what they say. I just called them and yes you can get it. I also spoke to the rep today and he said the same thing.

3) Its tis also my hobby..

[Michael Ledgerwood]

1) I aint a smart A$$ or jerk
2) Call Whelen and ask them about the edge strobe bar and the black section and PM me what they say. I just called them and yes you can get it. I also spoke to the rep today and he said the same thing.

3) Its tis also my hobby..

1) why do you get so defensive, obviously you don't read posts very carefully. If you had you would see that I was polietly telling you that my posts were not meant for me to sound like a smart a$$ or a jerk.

2) I don't need to call Whelen, my buddy is a Whelen rep and an installer. You can still get the black sections but only as replacements for the older bars. Like I said the new bars are modular, black sections won't fit. I suppose if you really wanted one you could put one on but it would defeat the purpose of a modular lightbar.

3) Great, glad to share the hobby with you

4) Why are you dragging this issue out? Is it really that big of a deal to you?

[Mr. Security]

With LED technology rapidly moving into the emergency lighting market, why don't the manufacturers make the visor lights and similar small lights with battery power instead of a cord that plugs into the cigarette lighter?

The amps that LED lighting uses are much less than halogen, etc. The advantage IMO is that I wouldn't have a 3 plug adapter cluttering up the lighter area in my vehicle.

[N. A. Corbier]

Battery dies, and you don't know it. You have a non-functional light bar. Some jurisidictions state that you can no longer lawfully conduct traffic stops. :)

However, most of these visor and dash lights that plug in via cigarette lighter... I don't know. I'm used to direct wire applications to the switching box.

[Mr. Security]

Battery dies, and you don't know it. You have a non-functional light bar. Some jurisidictions state that you can no longer lawfully conduct traffic stops. :)

However, most of these visor and dash lights that plug in via cigarette lighter... I don't know. I'm used to direct wire applications to the switching box.

I thought about the battery issue and you're right, batteries shouldn't be used for primary lights. I would market the battery-operated lights as supplemental only. In my case, I have two Deckblaster units plugged into an adapter that goes into my lighter. For supplemental lighting, I use two Lightman strobe units clipped to my visor that are powered w/ batteries. I would like to replace those w/ a visor LED light. I don't have the expertise to covert the market's visor lights to battery instead of the plug.

I'm hoping that the warning light manufacturers will see the 'light' :D and give buyers the option. Time will tell.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

With LED technology rapidly moving into the emergency lighting market, why don't the manufacturers make the visor lights and similar small lights with battery power instead of a cord that plugs into the cigarette lighter?

The amps that LED lighting uses are much less than halogen, etc. The advantage IMO is that I wouldn't have a 3 plug adapter cluttering up the lighter area in my vehicle.

NA is right, the batteries will die and that could be bad while responding. Also, most batteries are 1.5 volts, a car is 12 volts. This would significantly reduce the effectiveness of LEDs and might not even be powerful enough to power them anyways. You could forget about a battery powered strobe or halogen as it would suck the juice right up. Now you might be saying, well the lightman is a strobe and its battery powered and it works. The lightman strobe is not designed to be a 'warning light' therefore does not punch out much energy. The strobe lights used for warning lights use much more powerful power supplies. As battery technology improves you might see battery powered warning lights.

[Mr. Security]

NA is right, the batteries will die and that could be bad while responding. Also, most batteries are 1.5 volts, a car is 12 volts. This would significantly reduce the effectiveness of LEDs and might not even be powerful enough to power them anyways. You could forget about a battery powered strobe or halogen as it would suck the juice right up. Now you might be saying, well the lightman is a strobe and its battery powered and it works. The lightman strobe is not designed to be a 'warning light' therefore does not punch out much energy. The strobe lights used for warning lights use much more powerful power supplies. As battery technology improves you might see battery powered warning lights.

I hope so. :) In the meantime, do you think that you could modify the visor light to take 8 AA lithium batteries (1.5 x 8 = 12V) for use as supplemental, not primary lighting?

[Michael Ledgerwood]

[QUOTE=Mr. Security]I hope so. :) In the meantime, do you think that you could modify the visor light to take 8 AA lithium batteries (1.5 x 8 = 12V) for use as supplemental, not primary lighting?[/QUOTE

I'm not sure. I think it would be possible on the strobe but not the LED as the LED is too thin of a housing. What you should do is get a Whelen Flatlighter and remove the strobes. Buy two 500 series LEDs from Whelen and pop them in there. Then modify the housing to accept batteries. LED and Battery powered.

[Mr. Security]

[QUOTE=Mr. Security]I hope so. :) In the meantime, do you think that you could modify the visor light to take 8 AA lithium batteries (1.5 x 8 = 12V) for use as supplemental, not primary lighting?[/QUOTE

I'm not sure. I think it would be possible on the strobe but not the LED as the LED is too thin of a housing. What you should do is get a Whelen Flatlighter and remove the strobes. Buy two 500 series LEDs from Whelen and pop them in there. Then modify the housing to accept batteries. LED and Battery powered.

Probably would work, but more trouble than it's worth. I'll stick w/ the Lightmans until the market catches up. Thanks though. :)

[Michael Ledgerwood]

[QUOTE=Michael Ledgerwood]

Probably would work, but more trouble than it's worth. I'll stick w/ the Lightmans until the market catches up. Thanks though. :)

I did some checking on a lightbar forum i belong too. Turns out your not crazy after all :D . Several people have successfully attempted what you suggested. One person took a Federal Signal Condor, hooked it up to a 9v battery and ran it for five hours. So I guess you could do it if u wanted probably cheap too.

[Mr. Security]

[QUOTE=Mr. Security]

I did some checking on a lightbar forum i belong too. Turns out your not crazy after all :D . Several people have successfully attempted what you suggested. One person took a Federal Signal Condor, hooked it up to a 9v battery and ran it for five hours. So I guess you could do it if u wanted probably cheap too.

Careful. You're blowing my cover. ;)

[Michael Ledgerwood]

[QUOTE=Michael Ledgerwood]

Careful. You're blowing my cover. ;)

hey didn't you know thats what I was going for all along :D

[Mr. Security]

[QUOTE=Mr. Security]

hey didn't you know thats what I was going for all along :D

It worked. I admit it. I'm crazy -- like a fox that is! ;)

[Curtis Baillie]

I have not seen the new Dodge models. The police where I live recently made a partial switch to the Dodge Intrepid. My opinion of it is it's a piece of crap. They already have the front ends of them falling off and getting axles bent. The tires are low profile so the ride is rough and there isn't enough room inside the car. When I first went into LE, we were using Plymouths and then changed to Dodges with the 440 sixpack. Then we went to the Fords with the 460 motor. It was a rural environment. Still...nobody can outrun a Motorola.

[Echos13]

Concerning that security vehicle I took pictures of about a month ago. (You know, the one that started the debate about the lights? :)) It was backed in with the rear facing towards the street. Got a look at the tag (sorry, did not have my camera with me this time). It has a regular vehicle tag on it!? I plan to get shot of it this coming week end or my days off. There where two of them the other day. Curious....

[Echos13]

Well, have not got around to checking that other vehicle yet. But this one showed up the other day. I was suprised to see who it belonged to!

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL913/4314969/9803016/177958460.jpg

Sorry for the fuzzy picture, my image editor sucks.

[GCMC Security]

Didn't realize AMSCOT had thier own security lol.

Speaking of I saw an impala the other day that on first glance I thought it might be CIS but when I got closer realized it was a FHP Community Service Officer?? Never heard of it but have seen it a few times since at a couple MVAs guess they help with traffic. Has a yellow light bar

[Echos13]

Didn't realize AMSCOT had thier own security lol.

Speaking of I saw an impala the other day that on first glance I thought it might be CIS but when I got closer realized it was a FHP Community Service Officer?? Never heard of it but have seen it a few times since at a couple MVAs guess they help with traffic. Has a yellow light bar


I meet the driver, he said they just started it. He's the only one between Tampa and Orlando right now. He checks the offices security and thier set up to make sure they are follwing procedures and everything is OK. The only thing I find odd is that he is unarmed. Those places have a lot of money in them.

Yes, FHP's PSO have been around for a little while now. DOT has the same divison of thier own as well. Thier cars are yellow and thier LEO cars are silver. Markings are pretty much the same.

[N. A. Corbier]

Interesting concept. For those that don't know, Amscot is a check cashing company. Cash loans, check cashing, pre-paid credit cards, bill pay, etc.

The first time I saw an LED light bar was 2 miles away on a summer day. It was an FHP CSO vehicle. You could tell this, and it was impressive as hell at the time, because the light bar would switch from "rotator" mode to flashing like mad with the words FHP in the center, then go to "MOVE LEFT." Then back to light bar mode.

[Echos13]

Interesting concept. For those that don't know, Amscot is a check cashing company. Cash loans, check cashing, pre-paid credit cards, bill pay, etc.

The first time I saw an LED light bar was 2 miles away on a summer day. It was an FHP CSO vehicle. You could tell this, and it was impressive as hell at the time, because the light bar would switch from "rotator" mode to flashing like mad with the words FHP in the center, then go to "MOVE LEFT." Then back to light bar mode.

They are supposed to convert all thier units by late 2007 with LEDS. They already have the new radio system running. We had one in about a week ago and he had the LEDS inside over head behind the windshield. All the way accross! It was fascinating to see it work.

[trickynek]

i found this thread when investigating the amscot security vehicle mentioned.

i am curious about the vehicles with blue and white (i think) bands that I have seen in florida that say 'state law enforcement' on the back, and have the florida seal on their doors. all of a sudden maybe 6 months ago i started seeing these trucks and suburbans everywhere and wondered what their function was.

[GCMC Security]

I believe FL DOT has blue and whites...not sure. Nathan??

[N. A. Corbier]

Sounds like a DOT Commercial Vehicle Enforcement truck to me. Wildlife usually says STATE OFFICER on it, and are grey and blue.

[GCMC Security]

Something interesting....twice in the past week I have seen FWC officers working road construction. Not that anythign is wrong with that but I don't think I've ever seen anyone but FHP, Sherriff Office, or Local boys working em....

Of course we's got us a lot of road construction here in escambia county

[S/O245]

The new ones i think look more bulky i guess you would say. I know of sa PD that went to them because they say it will probably be cheaper on fuel and up keep. I dont know if they can go as fast as the crown vics i hope they can. So far they havent had any problems. As far as what those guys think about it i havent heard anything yet. For me when im forced or even change gear etc my self it sometimes takes me a while to like it or give it a chance. By looks i like the crown vic better. But i have no idea if it really is or not. I can tell you a buddy of mine drives a dodge cruiser, and its one of the fastest cars on that side of the county. Much faster than the vics.

What kind of cars do you guys that do patrol use ? My assignment is a little patrol and some stationary etc. I use my own car for work. Which i kinda like. At least i dont have to drive it back to the office.

[FDG06]

Rumor around here, was the contract for Crown Vic P71 expires with the 07 model and they may abandon any/all CV production at that time.
Dodge made the move a year early with the Charger and supposedly has a Chrysler M300 strictly for LE in the works..anyone hear this as well?
Yoda

[Andy Taylor]

Some have mentioned the better handling in the snow with front wheel drive cars. The Chrysler 300 has an all wheel drive option. It is essentially the same vehicle as the Charger, just different sheet metal and trim. I think if the LE version of the Charger were offered with AWD it would make about the best all around patrol vehicle for snow country.
I am glad to see some potential real competition for the Ford. Not that I don't like the Ford, but competion tends to improve all competitors.
On the Colorado. My father-in law is a mechanic at a Chevy dealer. He has said that the Colorados have been nothing bu trouble since they were introduced.

[Mr. Security]

Interesting concept. For those that don't know, Amscot is a check cashing company. Cash loans, check cashing, pre-paid credit cards, bill pay, etc.

The first time I saw an LED light bar was 2 miles away on a summer day. It was an FHP CSO vehicle. You could tell this, and it was impressive as hell at the time, because the light bar would switch from "rotator" mode to flashing like mad with the words FHP in the center, then go to "MOVE LEFT." Then back to light bar mode.

It seems like there is always something new with light bars these days. They are impressive. Still, there is something to be said about the MSP and their classic style rotating bubble light. I like it and it can be seen readily from any direction. I heard that the state police were considering a change to light bars, but changed their minds after people complained about changing a classic feature of the MSP.

[T202]

It seems like there is always something new with light bars these days. They are impressive. Still, there is something to be said about the MSP and their classic style rotating bubble light. I like it and it can be seen readily from any direction. I heard that the state police were considering a change to light bars, but changed their minds after people complained about changing a classic feature of the MSP.

Well they are doing it again. Now they say by 2009 the bubble will be gone. I'm guessing that the next thing to go will be the blue paint job. The same color blue has been used since 1956.

[Mr. Security]

Well they are doing it again. Now they say by 2009 the bubble will be gone. I'm guessing that the next thing to go will be the blue paint job. The same color blue has been used since 1956.

That's too bad. I say if it works, don't "fix" it. I love that shade of blue. It's an eye catcher.

[Mr. Security]

I know the new LED lightbars have many advantages, but they are also very expensive right now. I see police departments spending money on these new bars instead of making due with the strobes and using the money for other important equipment and/or manpower.

Are they safer than the strobes? Is that why or is there another good reason for this expense?

[Charger]

I know the new LED lightbars have many advantages, but they are also very expensive right now. I see police departments spending money on these new bars instead of making due with the strobes and using the money for other important equipment and/or manpower.

Are they safer than the strobes? Is that why or is there another good reason for this expense?

Cheaper over the long run... Because LEDs use only a small fraction of the power that normal halogens or strobes use, it doesn't put a huge strain on the vehicle's electrical system, causing less down time for alternator/battery replacements. In addition to that, the LEDs themselves tend to last longer than halogen or strobe bulbs, meaning less downtime for bulb replacements. :D

So yes, they're a bit spendier at first, (although the prices ARE dropping as they're becoming more mainstream), but in the long run they end up being cheaper overall.

[Mr. Security]

Cheaper over the long run... Because LEDs use only a small fraction of the power that normal halogens or strobes use, it doesn't put a huge strain on the vehicle's electrical system, causing less down time for alternator/battery replacements. In addition to that, the LEDs themselves tend to last longer than halogen or strobe bulbs, meaning less downtime for bulb replacements. :D

So yes, they're a bit spendier at first, (although the prices ARE dropping as they're becoming more mainstream), but in the long run they end up being cheaper overall.

Good point Bridgegate. I hadn't thought about the maintenance angle. Thanks! :)

[Lawson]

Well they are doing it again. Now they say by 2009 the bubble will be gone. I'm guessing that the next thing to go will be the blue paint job. The same color blue has been used since 1956.

I assume by you saying it will be gone by 09 you are referring to this...

Originally Posted by The Michigonian Press
Lansing MI- Michigan State Police reports that by 2009 the "bubble-light" as troopers refer to it will no longer appear on new patrol cars, but will be replaced by a more "modernized" look.

It was only a single topic amongst many at the quarterly review meeting, one of the final discussions to be had on the Monday evening, but certainly not the least important. Administrators and ranking officials from the Michigan State Police discussed a piece of police vehicle equipment that will soon be a thing of the past.

"It's weird, it feels like we have lost something near and dear to us and every trooper who has worked these highways, but we know it is for the best." Lt. Timothy Kearnst of the State Police said.

By 5:00pm on Monday evening it was decided that the Michigan State Police will retire their current overhead lighting system, commonly referred to as "The bubble-light."

As you cruise along Michigan's highways and interstates, a-top the State Police's vehicles, foreigners of Michigan get to see an interesting sight; a bubble-light. Named for its unconventional look, the "bubble-light" is a single red lens on the center of the roof with a rotating light inside.
Michigan officials deemed the light was, "no longer meeting the needs of Michigan's law enforcement..." and it, "does not provide the appropriate and immediate identification of a law enforcement vehicle to drivers from elsewhere in the country."

According to studies, Michigan has become more and more of a thru-way for drivers from all over the country, which has been posing a serious problem for the state police.

"I didn't know what to think at first, it was dark out and all I saw behind me was a big red shining light, then it went away, then it came back. I was frightened at first as I had no idea what it was that was closing in on me. As it got closer I could tell it was a police car because it had more lights on the inside and above the bumper. It just, didn't look right." A driver native to Illinois reports.

Michigan State Police currently deploy lighting equipment from Unity Manufacturing which boasts the light is the most powerful light on any police car to date. However; Michigan State Police officials feel the worth of lighting equipment cannot be based on sheer light output.

The Michigan State Police have not yet announced what design will be taking the place of the bubble-lights, but state that they will be looking into multiple different providers.

-9/26/2006 - The Michigonian Press

Well, that is a satire article. No one cited in the article exists and neither does the news company.