Security Stops Murder Suspect From Fleeing

[1stWatch]

Houston, TX:
An armed security officer at the Villa Monterrey apartments on Concourse Dr in Houston, TX detained a shooting suspect at gunpoint until police arrived. The officer received a commendation from a police homicide detective in the newspaper article regarding the story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/kprc/20060216/lo_kprc/3272232

[N. A. Corbier]

"He seems to have been doing his job. He certainly was alert, conscientious enough to at least go and investigate," HPD Homicide Detective Sgt. Flores told KPRC Local 2.

The question, of course, is was his job to intervene, or was it to protect?

I bring this up not lightly, this guard may be out of a job depending on his employer's ideal of "security."

[Echos13]

That is always the issue is it not. Act out of wanting to help because you have the nature to due so. Or not help because it's not your job by SOP. One's good intentions is another lawyers feeding frenzy.

[michael.c.bell]

My fellow officers and I are always involved in situations where what we do is always under scrutiny. I know this does not match up to stopping a murder suspect, but one night a fellow officer and I had to deal with two individuals who were throwing hot coffee at custodial employees. We went after the two into the parking ramp. They were a floor above where we came into the ramp. The observation booth officer said that the two individuals where urinating all over a vehicle that they were parked next to. When the two came down the ramp in their vehicle I stopped them and told them to park the car. We spoke with them and then brought them back into the building where they were later cited for disorderly conduct.

The big issue was it was not safe for me to stop them in the vehicle on the way down the ramp. As far as I was concerned, the ramp is still our jurisdiction and I had the right to stop them. My sergeant told me that I had to leave that part out of my report because the Leutenants would be all over me for stopping a vehicle in the ramp. I feel that what I did wouldn't be any different than if I would have stopped them before they made it into the ramp. The risk factor isn't any different whether they are in a car or not. A weapon can be concealed anywhere.

[histfan71]

The risk factor isn't any different whether they are in a car or not. A weapon can be concealed anywhere.

Michael, were you on foot or in a patrol vehicle when you stopped these suspects. Did you forget that the car itself can be a weapon?

[N. A. Corbier]

I'm wondering who cited the offenders for disorderly conduct, and if it was a police officer, how they were cited for a misdemeanor count without the officer personally witnessing the offense?

In other words: Security in this state can do misdemeanor citations? If so, how? Specifically how.

[1stWatch]

"He seems to have been doing his job. He certainly was alert, conscientious enough to at least go and investigate," HPD Homicide Detective Sgt. Flores told KPRC Local 2.

The question, of course, is was his job to intervene, or was it to protect?

I bring this up not lightly, this guard may be out of a job depending on his employer's ideal of "security."

The big answer is he was there to protect. This was not one of those "observe and report" jobs. In a position like that he is expected to intervene if possible. This kind of thing is common in Houston and in Dallas.

[Lawson]

I'm wondering who cited the offenders for disorderly conduct, and if it was a police officer, how they were cited for a misdemeanor count without the officer personally witnessing the offense?

In other words: Security in this state can do misdemeanor citations? If so, how? Specifically how.

In WA state, I dont think officers need to see an offense to cite for it. I had an officer make a DUI arrest using a witness statement of mine.

[Mr. Security]

That is always the issue is it not. Act out of wanting to help because you have the nature to due so. Or not help because it's not your job by SOP. One's good intentions is another lawyers feeding frenzy.

I've found that with WBS companies, their approval or condemnation all depends on how the situation ends. If it ends well for all with plenty of favorable press for the security company, then all is well and you are a hero to be written about in their next newsletter. If it goes poorly, you're likely to be standing all by yourself in the unemployment line and/or with a public defender when you are arraigned on charges. :eek: They love the limelight when all is well, but otherwise expect a "court martial."

[N. A. Corbier]

In WA state, I dont think officers need to see an offense to cite for it. I had an officer make a DUI arrest using a witness statement of mine.

Heh. WI law requires a public peace officer to have first hand knowledge of any misdemeanor offense, or else they must seek warrant from a competent magistrate for the offense. There are exceptions such as DUI and some traffic offenses, however, those are written directly into the code.

[1stWatch]

I've found that with WBS companies, their approval or condemnation all depends on how the situation ends. If it ends well for all with plenty of favorable press for the security company, then all is well and you are a hero to be written about in their next newsletter. If it goes poorly, you're likely to be standing all by yourself in the unemployment line and/or with a public defender when you are arraigned on charges. :eek: They love the limelight when all is well, but otherwise expect a "court martial."

That is how many security companies operate. One company I worked for, in a supervisor capacity at that, had a policy that said you would be terminated if you drew your weapon for any reason. That was not enforced on some individuals since they received favorable media attention for saving life while using deadly force.
It was also not enforced on some others because they figured out pretty quick who was knowledgeable enough about the law and come back with a lawsuit against the company for wrongful termination after the force they used was deemed lawful by the court. There have been several security officers who have successfully sued and won damages after being terminated under such circumstances.

Not all companies follow this train of thought, however. One other company I worked for that specialized in working patrol at apartment complexes was very proactive in dealing with problems and did not have a problem with officers being aggressive, as long as the approach or force used was legal. In fact, you could be fired for poor performance in some cases for not making an arrest.

[Lawson]

I would like to work for that company! :D

[1stWatch]

I would like to work for that company! :D

I wanted to work for that company too, when I got hired. Now I would never do so again since their business side is poorly run. After a while action gets old anyway. It all becomes more of the same after you've seen a certain number of incidents happen. It also loses its luster when the paychecks stop coming in. :(

[N. A. Corbier]

I wanted to work for that company too, when I got hired. Now I would never do so again since their business side is poorly run. After a while action gets old anyway. It all becomes more of the same after you've seen a certain number of incidents happen. It also loses its luster when the paychecks stop coming in. :(

Dear Employer,
We have, as your employees, decided that until you start paying us again, we are forced to work as our underpaid brothers do. We will observe what goes on, report it to the client, and take no action. When you feel like paying us, we'll feel like making arrests.

[1stWatch]

Dear Employer,
We have, as your employees, decided that until you start paying us again, we are forced to work as our underpaid brothers do. We will observe what goes on, report it to the client, and take no action. When you feel like paying us, we'll feel like making arrests.

This particular employer lost 80% of its employees at a time on several occasions. Around five years ago, this was not the case. They were absolutely the most professional security organization I had seen at that time and they had a great reputation, had great achievements, and had a lot of staffing, such that they could respond to most calls in less than five minutes.

Now, since the face of the real estate business has changed and the company was not, how shall I say, adapting its ways to meet its business needs, it lost a lot of business. Imagine losing eight accounts in one day. They do gain business very proactively, though, so they do well enough to stay around. Last I heard they are only using one or two patrol officers per shift.

[michael.c.bell]

Yes I know a vehicle can be used as a weapon. We were on foot. I don't know about anyone else, but if someone charged at me with their vehicle I'd probably get the hell out of the way. The cops cited the two guys. They reviewed the tapes from surveillance. That's how they were able to see what happened.

[N. A. Corbier]

Yes I know a vehicle can be used as a weapon. We were on foot. I don't know about anyone else, but if someone charged at me with their vehicle I'd probably get the hell out of the way. The cops cited the two guys. They reviewed the tapes from surveillance. That's how they were able to see what happened.

Another interesting idea. Where I'm from, a peace officer won't complete a misdemeanor arrest over videotape - as he can't prove it wasn't altered.

[histfan71]

Yes I know a vehicle can be used as a weapon. We were on foot. I don't know about anyone else, but if someone charged at me with their vehicle I'd probably get the hell out of the way. The cops cited the two guys. They reviewed the tapes from surveillance. That's how they were able to see what happened.

Michael,

All you did was put your life, the life of your partner, and the lives of the many innocent guests of the casino in danger over a non-violent and non-felony property crime. It is my professional and expert opinion that you exercised EXTREMELY poor judgment and tactics stopping those people in a moving vehicle while you and your partner were on foot. A better course of action would have been to get a good description of the suspects and their vehicle, the car's license plate, and their last direction of travel and give it to the local cops. You were very lucky that the situation turned out for the best and that your sergeants were willing to cover your butt. It would not have been pretty if the sergeants reported your dangerous and foolish actions to the lieutenants. My purpose is not really to bash you; although I realize that it may seem like that, but to help you learn something from your mistakes and to make a you a better security guard.

It is situations like this that underscore the need for stricter screening tools and increased training requirements for security guards.

[Bill Warnock]

Michael,

All you did was put your life, the life of your partner, and the lives of the many innocent guests of the casino in danger over a non-violent and non-felony property crime. It is my professional and expert opinion that you exercised EXTREMELY poor judgment and tactics stopping those people in a moving vehicle while you and your partner were on foot. A better course of action would have been to get a good description of the suspects and their vehicle, the car's license plate, and their last direction of travel and give it to the local cops. You were very lucky that the situation turned out for the best and that your sergeants were willing to cover your butt. It would not have been pretty if the sergeants reported your dangerous and foolish actions to the lieutenants. My purpose is not really to bash you; although I realize that it may seem like that, but to help you learn something from your mistakes and to make a you a better security guard.
It is situations like this that underscore the need for stricter screening tools and increased training requirements for security guards.

Thank you histfan71. Michael, please look closely at the "Ten Deadly Sins" or "Ten Commandments of Security and Law Enforcement." Should your actions been reported up the chain of command, you could now be unemployed. And as previously mentioned, turned out badly you could be dead.
Enjoy the day,
Bill