Crime Scene Operations

[N. A. Corbier]

Did you recieve training from your state or your company on operating in potential crime scenes? Can you recongize a crime scene, and if so, do you know how to take steps to preserve it?

Police Magazine has a very good article on "Crime Scene Response for the Patrol Officer," which focuses on initial response by law enforcement officers to the scene of a crime.

This article mirrors the training that the State of Florida gives on Crime Scene Management for Private Security.

Both stress such things as: Identify the elements of the crime scene, including secondary scenes. Secure the scene. Limit access. Preserve evidence using any means available - especially if the scene may be degraded by enviornment (snow/rain/wind/sun/etc). Begin an event log with accurate times.

What crime scene training have you recieved, and if you haven't recieved any, what is your "gut instinct" about operating in a potential crime scene enviornment?

This is something that has come up multiple times in my career. Everything from a welfare check on a resident turning into a forcible entry/burglary investigation to criminal traffic accidents. Knowing how to operate in the scene without causing massive disturbance is important - it allows us to complete our protective mission (Is the resident injured/dead/under attack?) vs. the law enforcement mission of investigating the criminal offense (Are there prints/door position/items disturbed).

[1stWatch]

Texas gives absolutely zero training to security officers in the way of protecting a crime scene. The few things I have learned have been from current and former law enforcement officers.
The most common mistake made by security is to put their fingerprints all over forced doors and property after a burglary. This happens since guards and alarm responders normally sweep through a building to check for suspects if they find forced entry.
According to what I've heard, this is a source of fierce frustration for police officers when they show up. Some even threaten or arrest the security for touching the evidence, even though they weren't trained any better. Of course, this practice is popular in Dallas and Houston. :mad:
I would seriously like to see state-mandated training on proper evidence preservation.

[Bill Warnock]

Texas gives absolutely zero training to security officers in the way of protecting a crime scene. The few things I have learned have been from current and former law enforcement officers.
The most common mistake made by security is to put their fingerprints all over forced doors and property after a burglary. This happens since guards and alarm responders normally sweep through a building to check for suspects if they find forced entry.
According to what I've heard, this is a source of fierce frustration for police officers when they show up. Some even threaten or arrest the security for touching the evidence, even though they weren't trained any better. Of course, this practice is popular in Dallas and Houston. :mad:
I would seriously like to see state-mandated training on proper evidence preservation.

There should be nothing said if police arrive and you announce the scene is just the way you found it and no one else had entered the scene. Accurately describe your approach and exactly what you did. Follow that up immediately by a call to your supervisor and write a factual statement for both your company and police.
N.A.'s advice is worth implementing.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Mr. Security]

Texas gives absolutely zero training to security officers in the way of protecting a crime scene...

I agree that much more training needs to be done in this area. Nevertheless, there is a global security company operating in Texas (Granted, it's not state training) that does give some basic training to s/o's about protecting crime scenes. I'm not going to identify the company for privacy reasons, but I did want to advise you that it's being done. It's just not as common as it should be.

[1stWatch]

The training is indeed available, but not regulated or recommended by the state. There is even a seminar you can take from LEAPS in this area. Aside from that, the burden of training falls on the individual security company. Unfortunately, that training is not realized or recognized by any agency outside the company.

[hemi444]

Pa does not have that type of training but I know the crimes commission has joined in on the training.

About nine years ago I had ordered some video training tapes.. Knowing that we had a low budget, I was able to get the crime scene preservation, weapon Id and work place violence, with the little quiz form. It gave a little more imput to the personnel that were new to the security industry.

[UtahProtectionForce]

state doesnt require trainings, companies i worked for never gave trainings, Ive been in actual crime scenes often involving police crime lab folks coming down and snapping pictures, and no ive never had any formal training, which could be bad because had i not taking precautians, as my years of watching court tv, had tought my becareful were you step, and what you touch, or walk through i have never destoried any crime scene evidence, it was funny though one night pd came out to respond on an assualt case they took some crime scene photos the two cops that showed up their flashlight batteries were just about dead, i told them it had been awhile since i charge my light, so i wasnt sure about the longtevity of the light, however out of all the lights mine held beam for the longest although it died about 10 mins later :P so sometimes cops forget things too :P

[BadBoynMD]

I've had training on crime scenes, evidence collection and on the 18th crime lab training. I am certification and training happy, and for this i've focued my company on training security officers in my area. However, most could really careless about "actually" knowing what the heck to do. One night, I was out with a police department and heard a call go out for a stabbing. Security advised that they "had the crime scene". It's definitely one thing to "sound" cool by saying you have the crime scene, yet a totally different situation if you have no clue about crime scene preservation.

[SecTrainer]

The biggest problem for the security officer is the situation in which a potential crime scene MUST be entered in order to deal with immediate life-threatening or life-saving issues, which ALWAYS take precedence over any other considerations, including any possible future criminal investigation. Human life is your first concern, always.

All of what follows presumes, of course, that you've done a scene size-up and it is safe for YOU to enter. If not, DO NOT ENTER; we do not need responders joining the list of victims.

Assuming entry is safe AND necessary, do so. The idea that you will "spoil trace evidence" or otherwise spoil the crime scene for investigative purposes by making necessary entry is less true than "CSI" would have you believe...providing your entry is limited and you document where and what you do.

If you must enter the scene in order to render aid or evacuate people:

1. Minimize the number entering - preferably, only one. Enlist the aid of other officers or bystanders to prevent others (except medical responders) from following you into the area. This job will be assumed by police on their arrival.

2. Take one path in and out, if possible, watching where you step.

3. Disturb evidence as little as possible.

4. Note anything that you or medical responders must move or alter in order to render aid.

5. Make mental note of transient evidence that you might encounter, such as odors, vapors, rapidly-evaporating liquids, etc.

6. Take care of the immediate life-saving business and get out.

7. Make immediate notes about your activities in the crime scene and share this information with the investigator-in-charge. Include the information in your after-action report, as well.

[Hank1]

Did you recieve training from your state or your company on operating in potential crime scenes? Can you recongize a crime scene, and if so, do you know how to take steps to preserve it?

Police Magazine has a very good article on "Crime Scene Response for the Patrol Officer," which focuses on initial response by law enforcement officers to the scene of a crime.

This article mirrors the training that the State of Florida gives on Crime Scene Management for Private Security.

Both stress such things as: Identify the elements of the crime scene, including secondary scenes. Secure the scene. Limit access. Preserve evidence using any means available - especially if the scene may be degraded by enviornment (snow/rain/wind/sun/etc). Begin an event log with accurate times.

What crime scene training have you recieved, and if you haven't recieved any, what is your "gut instinct" about operating in a potential crime scene enviornment?

This is something that has come up multiple times in my career. Everything from a welfare check on a resident turning into a forcible entry/burglary investigation to criminal traffic accidents. Knowing how to operate in the scene without causing massive disturbance is important - it allows us to complete our protective mission (Is the resident injured/dead/under attack?) vs. the law enforcement mission of investigating the criminal offense (Are there prints/door position/items disturbed).

Nathan~
CIS' SOPs basically mirrors the state's training. Identify the scene.....call LE.

[craig333]

There was some crime scene training in the state mandated training I took.

This was a problem when I was an emt too. "But maybe he only looks dead". Sometimes you just back off and secure the scene (and I wish I had some flagging for that) but those other times you just try and preserve what you can while doing your job.

[Curtis Baillie]

As a young Detective one of the first things I learned when viewing a crime scene of a dead body - was it homicide or suicide?

[HotelSecurity]

There was some crime scene training in the state mandated training I took.

This was a problem when I was an emt too. "But maybe he only looks dead". Sometimes you just back off and secure the scene (and I wish I had some flagging for that) but those other times you just try and preserve what you can while doing your job.

My friend is an Investigator with the fire department. He knows they have to tear things down to put out the fire (Investigatos in Montreal have to be firefighters-in lots of other olaces they are members of the fire prevention branch of the service). But he gets really upset when they have done so much damage that he can't determine the cause of the fire. (The fact that the fire department removed the red flashers from their vehicles hasn't helped - the department decided there was no reason for them to respond as an emergency :mad: )

[craig333]

It is possible to do you job and protect the crime scene. When I was with CDF they always said if you see a device at the fire scene, toss your hat over it, then continue on putting the fire out.

Another thing, if its anything with blood or fluids, dead or alive, I'm wearing gloves before I touch anything.

Theres no need to act like a bull in a china shop.

[Mr. Chaple]

Securitas offers only cursory training in crime scene managament. However, in one of my first criminal justice classes, our teacher issued each of us copies of a manual for police to use to train first responders (i.e. security guards, E.M.T.s, police patrol officers) in crime scene preservation. I have reviewed it several times and always keep it in my vehicle. While my hard copy is probably out of date, those of you interested in reviewing the information can find a more recent edition (but not much) online. http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/178280.pdf

[N. A. Corbier]

Thank you. Most states do not seem to consider "crime scene management" an issue for security personnel, it seems. Everyone's either copying Florida or California for their security training, though, since a lot of the state security regulatory boards are part of IASIR.

[UtahProtectionForce]

Thank you. Most states do not seem to consider "crime scene management" an issue for security personnel, it seems. Everyone's either copying Florida or California for their security training, though, since a lot of the state security regulatory boards are part of IASIR.

then you have Utah, and DOPL and PASCO :D

[ValleyOne]

Another thing, if its anything with blood or fluids, dead or alive, I'm wearing gloves before I touch anything.

I've gone with the logic that if it's wet and not yours, don't touch it.

[ValleyOne]

The only 'true' Crime Scene Training I've received was during my reserve academy with Portland and with a casino/hotel in Nev. Other than that it has been hands off policy from most, if not all, of my employers/supervisors.

[NRM_Oz]

In my younger days we would work in a 2 man K9 team and if into a possible hostile team we would run a dog into the area to conduct a search and come back. Now with cost cutting it is a sub-sub contractor who is usually running late by the time they get to the scene.

In our training now you are given about 1 hour discussion in the training package of the need to not touch anything and to ensure that NO-ONE touches anything until the police get there and take command of the scene. I once had a major argument with a Facilities Manager who thought he knew everything in the company I worked for. I told him if he took a step towards the crime scene I would arrest him for trespass and I had my handcuffs out (all bluff but the arrest would be real). We had a bloody big hole in the wall from a truck (semi) driving through and he was more worried about getting that fixed before the police even arrived on the scene.

I always made sure I had roll of barrier or safety tape (aka similar to POLICE LINE DO NOT CROSS) to assist with cordoning off a scene until Police arrive and take command of the scene. But many idiots go in wanting to play DIE HARD 5.0 - SECURITY GUARDS IN ACTION by stepping over things they know nothing of.

[Bill Warnock]

If in your working environment you are required to have this and similiar training, or just want to broaden your skills, you might want to contact Jim Alsum, Director Public Agency Training Council, 5101 Decatur Blve, Ste. L, Indianapolis, IN 46241. Phone 1-800-365-0199. Email: information@patc.com or David Huntress, American Trainco, PO Box 3397 Englewood, CO 80155. Phone 1-877-978-7246. Email: DavidH@AmericanTrainco.com Website: http://www.AmericanTrainco.com
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[SecTrainer]

In our training now you are given about 1 hour discussion in the training package of the need to not touch anything and to ensure that NO-ONE touches anything until the police get there and take command of the scene. I once had a major argument with a Facilities Manager who thought he knew everything in the company I worked for. I told him if he took a step towards the crime scene I would arrest him for trespass and I had my handcuffs out (all bluff but the arrest would be real). We had a bloody big hole in the wall from a truck (semi) driving through and he was more worried about getting that fixed before the police even arrived on the scene.

Admittedly, it's a major shift for people to suddenly realize that the place where they work every day is no longer just "the office" or "the factory", but now it's a "crime scene".

It's an equally large shock to management to find that their movements are suddenly being restricted (by a security officer, no less!) in a place where they are normally accustomed to coming and going at will.

[bigdog]

In our training now you are given about 1 hour discussion in the training package of the need to not touch anything and to ensure that NO-ONE touches anything until the police get there and take command of the scene. I once had a major argument with a Facilities Manager who thought he knew everything in the company I worked for. I told him if he took a step towards the crime scene I would arrest him for trespass and I had my handcuffs out (all bluff but the arrest would be real). We had a bloody big hole in the wall from a truck (semi) driving through and he was more worried about getting that fixed before the police even arrived on the scene.

We were taught by S2 that if someone touched something in a crime scene after told not to touch anything we could arrest them for tampering with evidence a 3rd degree felony.

[NRM_Oz]

I have only been with this company for a few weeks when this had it and I had already had a big argument with this clown for overstepping his mark a few times when he was telling me about the security industry. The former position holder had been fired for fraud and before I was in the chair the security function had been passed to him to babysit. He reported me and I got a rep for being a no-nonsense person but in reality, I don't need people who have never worked in our industry telling ME how things are.

Oh it was an inside job by former terminated employees - who were dumb enough to drive distinctive cars.