Your Favorite Camera System ?

[UtahProtectionForce]

alot of people use pelco, i think it is rather expenisive and does less then some other types, i for one am i fan of survellix, nice system very stable, easy to use interface on DVR, for backups and copies, looks sleeker to, better control with the PTZ function also, i think it gives a clearer image. what do you all think ? have you all used other camera systems ? if so why od you like one brand over the other ? btw i love the survelliz paddle so many options :D it is about the size of a regular computer keyboard.. many fun buttons to play with.

[integrator97]

Pelco has always been reliable, but pricy. But they've been around and will continue to be, along with others like Vicon.

That being said, Pelco has lagged in the DVR market. I haven't messed with their Endura line, but I know that they were always behind on the curve, compared to everyone else.

I'm not familiar with Survellix. The hardest thing for me, is deciding which company will warranty its product well, give decent support, and be around to give that support later. Oh, and can I communicate with their tech support (understand what they're saying with their accent).

I'll definitely be interested to see what others have to say.

[Curtis Baillie]

I have never used just one system. I take what I like from different manufactures and put it all together. I'm partial to Sanyo cameras as they hold up well in freezer cases and the desert sun.

[integrator97]

Hmmm. I'll have to say that in my 16 years of doing this I've never put one in a feezer case.

But I'll agree with you. When I refer to the system, I'm talking about the control systems, such as matrix, mux, dvr's etc. which generally have to be matched, and though you can do otherwise, I use the PTZ made by the control system manufacturer. As far as cameras, I use what I like, which is most often Ganz, but others depending on the application. If it's a large system, I'll use the DVR's to match also, assuming they meet the needs, and I feel good about them.

[Curtis Baillie]

I'm a 'real world' end user. I've used cameras in freezer cases, dairy boxes, and in the ceilings of grocery stores in Arizona. I have gone through many that could not stand up.

[Bill Warnock]

I'm a 'real world' end user. I've used cameras in freezer cases, dairy boxes, and in the ceilings of grocery stores in Arizona. I have gone through many that could not stand up.
Words of wisdom which I hope are not lost on our colleagues.
Curtis, the military found out to its discomfort the testing of one system and deploy it around the world will not work.
Some procurement weenies believe central procurement is the answer to a maiden's prayer.
Cameras and other security systems that work in "X" location may not function properly in "Y" location. Case in point the system installed at US Army Cold Regions Test Center in Alaska did not work at US Army Tropics Test Center in Panama.
The test center they have at Eglin AFB FL proves the point. The US Army tried to set up their "own" center at Anniston Army Depot in Alabama as the Center for Excellence run by the US Army Corps of Engineers better known as the Pork Barrel of the Congress.
When all you have for communications lines are barbed wire wrapped in linen and the specification calls for a minimum of Bell Grade 1302, don't expect spectacular results. In a similar fashion, what might work in clay has a poor chance of working in electrolytic soil.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Rooney]

As an integrator for both civilian and military markets there are many different aspects that need to come into play. I agree that Pelco are good systems for some instances. Ganz are good for some as well. We also use Flir, Icx, Raytheon, Vicon, etc.
When we build systems for the military we have to take the mission into consideration. Bill is right on the money. What works in one environment will not necessarily work in another.
Although most of the military systems have a requirement for one type system to work in many different environments, NO system will be "bullet proof" to all environmental conditions and requirements. That is where modularity comes in. We build our systems so the sensor suite is modular in design and can be swapped to different missions while in the field with as little effort as possible.

I am getting more into the IP end of the civillian camera market. For large systems it is easier to configure. (As long as you have the bandwidth).

[Ian]

Panasonic make quite good PTZ cameras with network connections, they are a bit expensive, are physically quite large and are not easy to work on but with all those negatives they are still good cameras. As a matter of interest how much of your equiment has a made in China sticker on the back.:mad:

[integrator97]

As a matter of interest how much of your equiment has a made in China sticker on the back.:mad:

If it does, don't lick it. It'll give you brain damage form the lead.;)

[Rooney]

As a matter of interest how much of your equiment has a made in China sticker on the back.:mad:

None... Unless a sub-part from the oem is. We as a rule "try" to buy "Made in USA" (Note: NOT Usa Japan - If anyone remembers that). Even though it is getting harder to buy American products. I'm not sure if there is any manufacturer of camera systems that do not use some China part(s) in there systems.

[CameraMan]

Samsung/GVI's SHR series DVRs are the best medium cost DVRs out there. They look great, are easy to install, program, and use, and the recorded video looks great. Other than some weird hoops you have have to jump through to backup video or burn to a cd, I highly recomend them.

Dedicated Micros DVRs are the easiest out there to use, and customers like them. The MJPEG format they use also lets you stuff more video on the same amount of space... which is nice, because for whatever incomprehensible reason they use SCSI to connect add on storage, and no one's manufactured SCSI drives since dinosaurs roamed the earth. A lot of the newer model D4A's have CD burners on the unit.

If you have the budget and superiors with foresight (and who among us does?) go with Panasonic IP cameras with an NVR. They are simply awesome.

[john_harrington]

I usually lead with Untellex DVRs but am open to some others (Nice, some Honeywell, etc). My major prerequisite is really what access control platform I am trying to integrate with. We have not gone down the IP path much at this point (see some of my other posts). Cameras are now commodities for the most part- find one with a good imager, package and gimbal.

John

[MetzLyov]

I usually lead with Untellex DVRs but am open to some others (Nice, some Honeywell, etc). My major prerequisite is really what access control platform I am trying to integrate with. We have not gone down the IP path much at this point (see some of my other posts). Cameras are now commodities for the most part- find one with a good imager, package and gimbal.

John

John, you meant Intellex right?:) Which models are you using?

[john_harrington]

Yes I did mean Intellex-sorry!
I use the Ultra version exclusively now when specifying AD.

[MetzLyov]

Yes I did mean Intellex-sorry!
I use the Ultra version exclusively now when specifying AD.

Do you fully utilize all Ultra series features if I may ask? I.E. 480 IPS, DVD burner, RAID, etc... Was it its functionality or was it its specs that got your attention?

We mostly work with DVMS series.. and lately seen a lot of Ultra appearing in many Casinos...

Very simple yet the priciest version of Intellex wagen... Unless if the Ultra is already specified in a project, majority of our customer use their DVMS series... and works very well..

[integrator97]

What is anyone using for smaller, low end dvr's? Not bottom of the barrel stuff, but for smaller systems with people who don't have the need or resources of casinos, banks and corp. offices.

[CameraMan]

The most user friendly, high quality, low cost DVR (and that's what you're looking for, isn't it?) is probably the Dedicated Micros (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/432587-REG/Dedicated_Micros_DS2PD16160_DS2PD16160_16_Channel_ 160GB_Digital.html). The pictures look really good, it stores video for a long time, the price is right, and you don't need a degree in rocket science to run the thing.

If you need any further info, PM me.

[MetzLyov]

What is anyone using for smaller, low end dvr's? Not bottom of the barrel stuff, but for smaller systems with people who don't have the need or resources of casinos, banks and corp. offices.

I can tell you that all the major manufacturers in the recent months and going forward, introduced and will introduce lower cost DVR...

Each and everyone of them have something at what they call it "cost effective price price DVR"... Mostly either it is a newer platform DVR or stripped down version of their more expensive models...

Dedicated Micros is not cheap nor can compete at this new range of products recognized and pursued by all the major manufacturers...

I.E... American Dynamics came up their EDVR series that starts around $900.00 and covers 4-8-16 ports platforms.... CBC is yet another one that found a niche market and came up with their DR.. series. The same applies to Panasonic, Bosch, Mitsubishi and few others... The only player that I know, namely GE Security, who refuses to drop pricing... I am sure at one point of time they will reconsider, as their overall sales are not what you call "good"..

One very interesting topic that was debated over six months ago by these manufacturers was the the warranty... Should they keep 3 years warranty or should they reduce to what other off shore companies do... offer only 1 year warranty... Working with these manufacturers daily basis gave us a rare opportunity to participate with all the reasoning and justifications why they should stay with their standard 3 years warranty...

Of course, that will not be easy for these manufacturers.. but will be great opportunity for the entire industry.. Finally we can get much better equipment with better pricing, better warranty and companies that will stay behind their products...

[CameraMan]

Dedicated Micros' DVRs are not cheap, true. They do make the cheapest good DVR I know of. I can also tell you they stand behind their products, as does GVI.

Everfocus makes dirt cheap DVRs, but they do not stand behind their products in my experience, which lost me a big customer.

The entire industry is focusing on the top end of the customer base. Panasonic, Axis, Pelco- everyone wants to sell to the military, casinos, prisons, airports, and stadiums. No one seems to realize that if you sell one 64camera system to an airport but you ignore 1000 delis that need 4 cameras and a small DVR each, you lost money. You could have made a lot more money ignoring the airport and selling to the deli. And then when the deli has a robbery and the police get no usable evidence out of the $400 CCTV system the deli owner bought online because the system was a piece of junk, the entire industry suffers because people learn that CCTV systems are a waste of money.

If you really want to go low cost/ acceptable quality, check out Speco (http://www.specotech.com/cart/products/default.asp?action=viewcat&catid=153).

[integrator97]

Have you used and had good luck with the speco? I just tried their online demo the other day. I felt it wasn't very intuitive, which I think is important in a lower cost dvr. You don't want to spend a ton of time going over operation repeatedly at this price point.

I don't do the dirt cheap jobs, not my market. But I haven't been thrilled with the features of the lower ends I've used. But nothng in the past 8 months to a year in that range, so I need an update.

[john_harrington]

Do you fully utilize all Ultra series features if I may ask? I.E. 480 IPS, DVD burner, RAID, etc... Was it its functionality or was it its specs that got your attention?

We mostly work with DVMS series.. and lately seen a lot of Ultra appearing in many Casinos...

Very simple yet the priciest version of Intellex wagen... Unless if the Ultra is already specified in a project, majority of our customer use their DVMS series... and works very well..

It was mainly the improvements over the DVMS (though that is still a fine DVR) including:
1. The 4 CIF rate
2. The OS has moved to a flash from a hard drive
3. Front mounted, swappable drives (one of our projects has 280 3.2 and 4.0 DVMS boxes and it is time consuming to unrack the entire DVR to change a drive)
4. The overall improvements to the airflow through the Ultra improving reliability.

[CameraMan]

I agree that Speco's biggest problem is their nonintuitive design, which was designed by dyslexic monkeys on crack.

Funny story: I got a phone call about a year ago from a customer who had had a robbery. The police were on site, and the customer wanted to review the video. I tried my best to walk him through the procedure over the phone, but he just wasn't getting it.

"Can you come over?" he ask.

"No... the earliest I can make it is in a week from now".

Needless to say, this did not make him happy. He yelled a little bit, and then offered to double my call-out fee.

"No, I really can't..." I said.

"Triple your fee!"

"No..."

"Why the hell not?!?"

"Because I'm getting married in... two hours and ten minutes."

Pause.

"Umm... congratulations, then. I'll see you in a week".

[integrator97]

I agree that Speco's biggest problem is their nonintuitive design, which was designed by dyslexic monkeys on crack.

Ha-ha-ha-ha, hee-heee-heee, ho. That's a good one. :D

And your story was good too.

[MetzLyov]

It was mainly the improvements over the DVMS (though that is still a fine DVR) including:
1. The 4 CIF rate
2. The OS has moved to a flash from a hard drive
3. Front mounted, swappable drives (one of our projects has 280 3.2 and 4.0 DVMS boxes and it is time consuming to unrack the entire DVR to change a drive)
4. The overall improvements to the airflow through the Ultra improving reliability.

Yup... it is a good stuff.. expensive, but delivers the goods everyday.

Thanks,

[integrator97]

I looked at the Speco the other day at a mini-show. Very impressed. Then I downloaded the install manual. If you change the recording format, which to them is changing the quality (720x480, 720x240, 320x240), you must reformat the hard drive and lose all video and data. I called tech support to verify, they said yes, and that most have to do that because it has to re-index.

I've used Vicon (VDR, KPX, & KPro), Dedicated Micros, Everfocus, Pelco (older), Honeywell & Ademco, and Kalatel Storsafe (pre GE) and I don't remember ever seeing this. Anybody else?

Also, you can't have it just email video loss. It would have to email all alarms, including motion activation.

BTW I was looking at the pc based software. The embedded uses much easier software. Actually that and the archiving & exporting really seemed good. But I don't think I can accept that 1st item.

[CameraMan]

I looked at the Speco the other day at a mini-show. Very impressed. Then I downloaded the install manual. If you change the recording format, which to them is changing the quality (720x480, 720x240, 320x240), you must reformat the hard drive and lose all video and data. I called tech support to verify, they said yes, and that most have to do that because it has to re-index.

I've used Vicon (VDR, KPX, & KPro), Dedicated Micros, Everfocus, Pelco (older), Honeywell & Ademco, and Kalatel Storsafe (pre GE) and I don't remember ever seeing this. Anybody else?

Also, you can't have it just email video loss. It would have to email all alarms, including motion activation.

BTW I was looking at the pc based software. The embedded uses much easier software. Actually that and the archiving & exporting really seemed good. But I don't think I can accept that 1st item.

Dyslexic monkeys on crack, I tells ya.

Meh. You get what you pay for.

[oldsnail]

CAMACC - www.camacc.com is one of my

there DVR is system is called VIGIL
a few capabilities :

-HD camera support
-32 channel live layout on one screen
-very customizable search features
-able to imitate matrix switchers

are just a few.

they have alot of supporting products as well, such as monitoring multiple dvr sites, touch screen/ maps, user managment systems, interview recording systems.

[Unit6]

I used honeywell and Pelco, and i like honeywell far better.

[CameraMan]

Everfocus's new EDVR (http://www.everfocus.com/product.asp?id=187)line looks pretty impressive for the money. I've been recomending them lately.