Officer apearance

[hemi444]

I was in the local wawa and seen this armored car s/o. He had his blue uniform shirt, his black jean pants and his brown belt. His pants were down almost to were you could see his underbriefs, with his revolver holster unsecure and his side arm flopping in the wind. I cant forsee anyone or myself to represent a amored car employer looking the way he did. Do most Armor car carriers provide a full set of uniforms?

[Charger]

I have yet to come across any armored carriers in my immediate area, but down in the Portland Metro area I used to run into them all the time... All of them were wearing company-issued matching uniforms, but I too have seen this 'gangster-style' on a few of their guys... Always wondered if they realized how goofy they looked...

[Tennsix]

From the first second a bad guy lays eyes on an officer, (s)he is sizing up that officer. The purpose of this evaluation might be as simple as "Can I scare this guy into letting me have my way" or "Can I kill this cop if I had to". Uniform appearance means everything.

Friend and Foe alike notice how we present ourselves. There has been more than few stories about a bad guy that decided not to take on an officer because his uniform was squared away.

[Mr. Security]

From the first second a bad guy lays eyes on an officer, (s)he is sizing up that officer. The purpose of this evaluation might be as simple as "Can I scare this guy into letting me have my way" or "Can I kill this cop if I had to". Uniform appearance means everything.

Friend and Foe alike notice how we present ourselves. There has been more than few stories about a bad guy that decided not to take on an officer because his uniform was squared away.

Tennsix is right on the money. Sloppy uniform = sloppy tactics and procedures. Even warm body security companies emphasize the value of looking professional to deter criminals. If you see a sloppy armored car s/o, take note of the vehicle marking, where and when you saw it, and report it. Who knows, you may save the guy's life.:)

[Mr. Security]

I might add that we have had guys show up in sweats, wrinkled shirt, no tie, and an X-box play station. What an embarrassment! I had one guy show me is 40 caliber semi-automatic at an unarmed post. He wanted me to hold it to see how good it felt. I told him the last thing I needed is for my prints to be on his gun and to put it away before someone gets hurt. :(

[Echos13]

I was in the local wawa and seen this armored car s/o. He had his blue uniform shirt, his black jean pants and his brown belt. His pants were down almost to were you could see his underbriefs, with his revolver holster unsecure and his side arm flopping in the wind. I cant forsee anyone or myself to represent a amored car employer looking the way he did. Do most Armor car carriers provide a full set of uniforms?

I see carriers all the time here with the large trucks or the vans. Some of them are called replenishers by the ATM techs. Or rather called idiots mostly because they do such a sloppy job of refilling the bins in the ATMs. About a third of the calls for coverage are techs having to fix the machines because the money jammed the presenters due to being replaced wrong. But yea I have seen some dressed like they all just stepped off the transient bus from a third world country. A select few I have seen looked good and even where professional in both manners and attitude. But I have met some that looked good that were complete alpha hotels as well. I think attitude goes with appearance too. The biggest thing about appearance that gets to me and I hope I don?t start any flames here is how big some of these people are. I am not talking about height here. They have shirts that sag over the edges with buttons missing and duty belts look like they are in a 45 degree pitch to hold up their bellies. I saw a gate officer the other day with a white t-shirt under his dark blue top and wearing a baseball cap of some sports team. No wonder security gets bad press sometimes. I am all for equal opportunity employment but sometimes I just shake my head.

[Bill Warnock]

Supervision, supervision and supervision. While conducting a survey I had the misfortune of meeting two men such as has been described. Then wonder of wonders, in walked their supervisor. He looked like he had been ridden hard and put away wet.
After a brief interview, conversation with a purpose, we parted company. I subitted my findings.
I can say with all honesty, why more of these machine fillers have not been robbed is a mystery to me.
They are part of the security community and therefore their presence make all of us in this profession look bad.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[1stWatch]

From the first second a bad guy lays eyes on an officer, (s)he is sizing up that officer. The purpose of this evaluation might be as simple as "Can I scare this guy into letting me have my way" or "Can I kill this cop if I had to". Uniform appearance means everything.

Friend and Foe alike notice how we present ourselves. There has been more than few stories about a bad guy that decided not to take on an officer because his uniform was squared away.

This is entirely true. It has saved me on several occasions. On one occasion last year while at an apartment complex I was confronted by several individuals who I learned later were known drug dealers who later committed a murder in the area over a botched drug deal. The uniform I was wearing was midnight blue and meticulously ironed with an LAPD style badge and buttons with polished leather gear and all its equipment. However, I only weigh 150 lbs at 6'1", which makes my appearance less than intimidating at times. This individual decided to walk up to me and ask "what the f*** are you doing here". He was closely watching my body language and positioning to see what I would say and do. I told him I was providing security on the property and he needed to either go inside or leave and did not avert my eyes from him, turn red, or have any interrupted breathing. They decided not to take me on and walked to an apartment while I followed them. They ended up leaving after they saw I wouldn't go away. The apartment they went to was later served eviction papers after the occupant was caught transporting drugs. The way I see it, my uniform not only protected me, but prevented a murder while I was there.

[The_Mayor]

Appearance does not just extend to the uniform. It is important to have good posture and to project yourself.

If you are seen as being neat, proper, and fit. Then you are conveying that you are in control. Bascially, if someone can handle there posture, uniform and overall appearance, then they are set to take care of other matters too.

[Mr. Security]

Appearance does not just extend to the uniform. It is important to have good posture and to project yourself.

If you are seen as being neat, proper, and fit. Then you are conveying that you are in control. Bascially, if someone can handle there posture, uniform and overall appearance, then they are set to take care of other matters too.

That's true. Barney Fife had his uniform squared away, but his posture and lack of confidence made him a clown.:D

[N. A. Corbier]

Most of the armored courriers up here carry one Glock, one extra mag, and that's it. Some have radios.

I saw one guy with a revolver, two pairs of cuffs, a full duty rig, and he was carrying the liability in a football crunch on his off hand. That was the only one who seemed to realize what he was carrying, and why he was armed.

The rest of them would carry the bag loosely with their weapon hand. Considering they have two options: Shoot or Run, it was obvious which one they were aiming for.

[EMTGuard]

I've seen SOs show up to work at my post in no uniform at all, just 'street' clothes. I asked why the SO was reporting to work, on day shift in the middle of a work week no less, out of uniform. He tells me that he had gone to a neighbors house to do laundry the night before and then returned home and fell asleep before finishing and retreiving his uniforms from the neighbors' washing machine. Since all of his uniforms were in the wash and he didn't want to wake his friends to get his clothes he just came in his civies. He worked the entire shift like that.

[Mr. Security]

Most of the armored courriers up here carry one Glock, one extra mag, and that's it. Some have radios.

I saw one guy with a revolver, two pairs of cuffs, a full duty rig, and he was carrying the liability in a football crunch on his off hand. That was the only one who seemed to realize what he was carrying, and why he was armed.

The rest of them would carry the bag loosely with their weapon hand. Considering they have two options: Shoot or Run, it was obvious which one they were aiming for.

If I were an armored courier, I would be more worried about my coworkers (inside job) than any threat from the outside. At least you expect it from the outside.

[hemi444]

The biggest thing about appearance that gets to me and I hope I don?t start any flames here is how big some of these people are. I am not talking about height here. They have shirts that sag over the edges with buttons missing and duty belts look like they are in a 45 degree pitch to hold up their bellies. I saw a gate officer the other day with a white t-shirt under his dark blue top and wearing a baseball cap of some sports team. No wonder security gets bad press sometimes. I am all for equal opportunity employment but sometimes I just shake my head.

No offense taken here since i am a big person myself. The 45 degree picth is not my cup a tea and it also gets me flared up. My trousers and duty belt are even and not saggien underneath the belly.

[N. A. Corbier]

I couldn't help but smile when reading through this post. Barely out of my teens, I worked for on of these (National) Armored Car companies (starts with a D) we liked to call ourselves "Armed Couriers" but a better description would be "Armed Reckless Drivers." I used to love pushing my truck to it's limit.

We were forbidden to carry anything other than a firearm for protection. That means our escalation of force went from uniformed presence, to deadly, and that was it. I once lobbied for use of radios (contact between driver and "Hopper") but my idea was shot down because of "cost efficiency." Imagine that?

My DC colleagues were restricted to revolvers during that city's reign of "Murder Capitol" and our body armor consisted of poly/cotton uniformed shirts. Sadly, during my tour a Driver/Guard was killed during a robbery. Facing an AK-47, the poor Guard never had a chance.

I finally lost it, when, nievely having faith in this company's hiring practices, my partner was found ciphering about $1,000 per week in bank deliveries into his own pocket. Shame is, he was a damn good driver. After he was caught, he wasn't fired, the company deducted from his pay for some time to repay the loss. At no interest rate!!!!!!

ROTFL. He's probally a branch manager by now. :)

[Mr. Security]

ROTFL. He's probally a branch manager by now. :)

Actually, Internal Affairs! :D

[hemi444]

Any person who cannot shave for medical reasons shall be deemed medically unfit for this job position.

N.A, I was just thinking with all the individuals around here wearing du rags and other unprofessional head wear. Does Fl have something similar in reference to the quote, as to were if you cannot wear a uniform hat and can they be dismissed for that reason as well in your state. I know we had a problem with some religious groups wearing these obscene head dressing(s).

[N. A. Corbier]

N.A, I was just thinking with all the individuals around here wearing du rags and other unprofessional head wear. Does Fl have something similar in reference to the quote, as to were if you cannot wear a uniform hat and can they be dismissed for that reason as well in your state. I know we had a problem with some religious groups wearing these obscene head dressing(s).

I've never heard of reasonable accomodation for religious headgear before. Interesting idea. Here's a good answer to it, from the LAPD Policy and Procedure Manual. which I will now paraphrase.

The Uniform Cap shall be readily available at all times while on duty. In crowds, social disturbances, or other events where an officer must be readily identifable, the cap shall be worn.

In other words, you can make a "undue hardship" case that the uniform cap MUST be worn as part of the daily uniform. The reasons would include "professional image," "safety of the officer," "immediate identification of company employees," and "compliance with state regulations regarding agency insignia."

Smokey the Bear hats are unique to my area, I think. :) They'll look rather nice in black on dark grey uniforms. :)

[Charger]

"...such a nice mount-me hat!"

"...Mount-me?"

"Well not right now, but maybe after a few drinks!"

LOL

Sorry, couldn't resist.. :D

[Mr. Security]

No offense taken here since i am a big person myself. The 45 degree picth is not my cup a tea and it also gets me flared up. My trousers and duty belt are even and not saggien underneath the belly.

What happens when you run? :D I don't a big gut, but the weight of my belt causes my pants to fall :p. I wish we were permitted to wear the duty belt suspenders that I have. :)

[hemi444]

What happens when you run? :)

my pants stay up :D :D

[Mr. Security]

[I]
Some in depth studies have been done on the uniform topic including ones done by the DOJ, as a Security Officer your more likely to be confronted and physically assaulted while wearing a blazer then a hard look military type uniform.......

I believe it. I hate the blazer look. (Guardsmark's uniform looks fine as long as you don't wear the blazer)



The uniform is powerful and can send different messages to people who view it.....

Absolutely correct.

[N. A. Corbier]

900? Where the hell are you buying these, and where's the link?!

My last uniform estimation was 1,850 for an armed officer. That's from Quartermaster Uniforms. That dosen't include the things that they don't sell, like guns and bullets and stuff.

If anyone wants, I'll be glad to send them a Excel document that I created to outline uniforms. Its fun to play around with.

I plan on doing them for Streichers, Galls, and US Calvary, as well. I find that the Excel worksheet helps plan exactly what needs to be bought, and how much it will cost.

[bigdog]

what did exelsior uniforms run batou?

[histfan71]

Hi Guys:

Some in depth studies have been done on the uniform topic including ones done by the DOJ, as a Security Officer your more likely to be confronted and physically assaulted while wearing a blazer then a hard look military type uniform. The problem is most companies will not spend money of high end quality uniforms, one uniform set should cost about $300.00, by the time you add in the extras like badge holder, citations, collar insg, whistle and hook, duty belt, cuffs, cases, etc. Your looking at about $900.00 for a professional uniform, jackets, and such. We use the same rain coats as police do that run about $125.00 black outside orange inside. The uniform is powerful and can send different messages to people who view it. Here is a good article on the topic I hope you enjoy.

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/apparel/uniforms/articles/99417/

I used to work for a private college in California that upgraded from a security agency to a police department.

While we were security, we wore tan shirts and pants similar to the California Highway Patrol. People used to mistake us for soliders or park rangers and we got little respect from the college community or the general public.

When we became a police department we changed our uniforms to the LAPD-style dark blue shirts and pants and it made a BIG difference. The students and the public were much quicker to comply with us and the smart-ass park ranger comments disappeared. We were quickly viewed by the college, community, and the local police as a comptetent and professional agency.

Unfortuneatly the department lost it's peace officer powers after two years and became a "public safety" agency. Basically back to the private security they were before. But the college did not want the department to present a military or police-like image. They went to a black polo shirt with embroidered insignia (metal badges are now against policy) and black pants. The college forbids "Public Safety" to take any enforcement action, and they must call the local police to make any arrests.

[Mr. Security]

.....
While we were security, we wore tan shirts and pants similar to the California Highway Patrol. People used to mistake us for soliders or park rangers and we got little respect from the college community or the general public..

I'll trade you mine for those. :D


.....

Unfortuneatly the department lost it's peace officer powers after two years and became a "public safety" agency....

Why?

[Bill Warnock]

HistFan71. I do not mean to be rude, but what do you folks really do? No enforcement powers and what else was taken away?
One has to suppose the lack of response from a "public safety" organization has been cleared with the local police since they will respond to your call or anyone on campus. Sounds like something is a screwed up. Hopefully my take on this is wrong.
Wal-Mart greeters seem to have more meaningful occupation than does your organization.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[histfan71]

Why?[/QUOTE]

There were several reasons, but the main one was money. The college was spending WAY too much money than it wanted to on training courses for the officers. The majority of these courses were mandated by the state legislature for peace officers. Also, it was not just the cost of the courses themselves. It was the OT paid to officers covering for those officers who were attending classes.

Another major reason was that many students complained the department was too aggressive giving citations and making arrests, so the administration caved in to the naysayers. Shows where their priorities were.

[histfan71]

HistFan71. I do not mean to be rude, but what do you folks really do? No enforcement powers and what else was taken away?
One has to suppose the lack of response from a "public safety" organization has been cleared with the local police since they will respond to your call or anyone on campus. Sounds like something is a screwed up. Hopefully my take on this is wrong.
Wal-Mart greeters seem to have more meaningful occupation than does your organization.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

Bill,

No I don't think your question is rude. I no longer work for the college, but the situation when I left (in 2003) was that "public safety" officers were to observe and report.

So if an officer saw a crime being committed, or someone reported a crime to an officer, that officer was to call the local police. The officer was not to take any direct action to stop or prevent the offender. The police would respond and take whatever action they felt appropriate.

The officers could write an "incident report" on any violations of the college's rules, regulations, and Code of Conduct which would get forwarded to the Dean of Students for action. What would be the Dean's reaction to these reports, you ask? Not much! The student might get assessed a small fine and a stern warning not to do it again. As you can imagine, the students did not take college discipline very seriously.

Your comment about Wal-Mart greeters was pretty close to the mark. The officers still patrol to be a "visual deterent", can still write parking citations, and can write "incident reports" but cannot make arrests. If an arrest is necessary the police must be called. When we were security and then the police we did not carry firearms but did carry batons, OC, handcuffs, and a radio. When we were downgraded to "public safety" everything but the radio was taken away. In my opinion the only reason the college even kept us around was to make the parents feel better about turning their children over to the college. I won't reveal the name of the college, but it was in a VERY bad neighborhood in Long Beach, CA. The surrounding community had a high crime rate, and most of the arrests we made on the campus were not students (although we arrested a few) but neighborhood thugs who thought the campus was an easy target.

[N. A. Corbier]

I think the college kept it around for federal and DOJ grant money. Remember, every college has to have a DPS or security department who collects UCR data for the college.

I hate to say it, Bill, but this guy's former job - after peace officer status was removed, sounds like every warm body security company's mission I've seen. Seriously. The two up here, I'm sure the Racine guys can back me up about KPP and Schmitt: They are there to observe and report, and that's it. Do not confront, etc.

Your mission is to walk around, write in a daily activity log, and call 911 if something happens. You are NOT to become involved.

This means, for the company: 85 dollar uniforms. 20.00 per month cell phone contract per client, IF they pay for a cell phone (If not, oh well, no phone. My contract says observe and report to client, not call 911.) 5.25 to 6.00 in pay. And pay 95.00 to the state for their license.

I'd already have the security company open for business and bidding on contracts if I wanted one of those WBS. I'd need about a 100,000 dollar bond on the company, and boom, I'm ready to get the PI agency license and open the doors for warm body security.

If anyone wonders why its taking me so long, its because I don't want to run a warm body company. If I did, I'd open a temp agency - its alot less liability for me. :) Good people, good equipment, etc, cost tens of thousands of dollars. :(

I actually worked a post that was Observe and Report Only. We were not allowed to do jack. If you did, the client pulled you immediately. You weren't even allowed to wear a company radio, it confused the manager that you MAY have authority.

[N. A. Corbier]

what did exelsior uniforms run batou?

Depends on the era.

When our friends at Harrison's Uniforms were around, before someone torched the store, the company bought Flechmeyer Command Shirts (Short Sleeve), at 35.00 a pop. The pants were 65.00 a pop, Flechmeyer. Stripe was an added 5.00. Yep, we wore red stripes. You can still tell old timers by their red stripes. I was probally the last, though.

Now days, unless they changed vendors, the shirts are about 25 dollars, 100% Rayon, and the pants are about 17.00. They get them through Uniform Warehouse out of California. That's why I'm not afraid to buy uniforms from Quartermasters in 100% Poly or Poly/Cotton. I have worn them myself, these cheap uniforms, and you CAN make them look good. I'm also stupid enough to write up care and use instructions, and either find a dry cleaner to purchase gift certificates (One DC a month will restore the uniforms), or give people 8 bucks a month to DC their uniforms.

[Mr. Security]

....
Wal-Mart greeters seem to have more meaningful occupation than does your organization.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

Hey, another value-added service!! I'll have to submit this idea in our employee suggestion box. I'm sure to get a bonus now. :D :p

[Mr. Security]

I think the college kept it around for federal and DOJ grant money. Remember, every college has to have a DPS or security department who collects UCR data for the college......

You "hit the nail right on the head." As has been pointed out before regarding WBC's: "We are here for insurance purposes only. For real emergencies, dial 911." ;)