Should Security Officers Carry Knives?

[davis002]

Should Security Officers Carry Knives?

I have been hearing this more and more lately. The simple answer is yes,
but with limitations. Most security companies have written policies regarding
their officers carrying knives. If your company says no, they feel that doing so
increases their liability and they fear it endangers the officer and others if that
knife were to end up in the wrong hands during a struggle.

Lets look at the logic behind this issue:

1) The likelihood of a SEO needing to use a knife as a defensive weapon is minimal.
Besides, unless you have received countless hours of reputable combat knife training,
then chances are the knife could be used against you or others.

2) Now that we have shelved the defensive weapon concept, what's left?
You will find a knife is more useful as a utility tool than a defensive
weapon. Everything from cutting boxes, ropes, etc.

3) Another equally important use is... rescue. A knife is a great tool
if you come across an MVA and need to cut a seatbelt or two. Several
popular knife manufacturers currently produce knives with rescue features
like spring-loaded window punches, carbide tips, etc.

What it really comes down to is, yes SEOs should carry a knife if their company
permits them. I suggest looking into the rescue knives, or a simple 3-4 inch
folding knife with a half-serated blade.

[Mr. Security]

I don't see any problem with it as long as the length and type of knife is legal. It's very common for other contractors to have them and there are plenty of them to be found in the break room or cafeteria. Besides, what s/o is crazy enough to "bring a knife to a gunfight" if they just intend to use it for defense? :rolleyes:

[ff000525]

that I cannot carry any tool or weapon of any type that is not issued to me by the company. That includes knives, batons, mace and firearms. I know two people that I work with who carry one or the other, but I'm pretty new so I'd rather not lose my job over a 3" blade or Kubaton.

[Taser]

No knives?

I understand not carrying around a buck knife, but what about a 3" blade on a Leatherman Super Tool? I carry a Leatherman in my patrol bag and it almost always stays in the car. I'm pretty sure our company has no policy at all regarding knives. I'm sure if someone showed up to work with a sword on their belt they'd be sent home. :)

[Taser]

Just forgot to say...it's one of those things that you may not need more than once a month, but they're handy as hell to have when you need them.

[Mr. Security]

that I cannot carry any tool or weapon of any type that is not issued to me by the company. That includes knives, batons, mace and firearms. I know two people that I work with who carry one or the other, but I'm pretty new so I'd rather not lose my job over a 3" blade or Kubaton.

No knives or tools? I know that's what your company states. Next thing you know they will be banning Mag-lites and issuing rubber coated flashlights instead! :p

If you read your handbook from cover-to-cover, you will probably be surprised at what else is prohibited. Basically, the company is protecting itself. Remember, a lot depends on how strict your supervisor wants to be. You could do everything perfect and still be fired if someone in the company or at the client site doesn't want you around. The positive thing is that companies like the one you work for are usually desperate for new guards. :)

[Taser]

No knives or tools? I know that's what your company states. Next thing you know they will be banning Mag-lites and issuing rubber coated flashlights instead! :p
Like the LAPD

[N. A. Corbier]

Like the LAPD

Heh. To me, its better to address the defensive application of an emergency weapon (knife, flashlight, radio, etc), then simply blanket prohibit them all.

"A Flashlight is not a weapon." No, it isn't, but if its in the hand when under sudden assault, you will use it as such.

The same goes with a utility folder.

[ff000525]

who have worked for this company for a while, even if you are at an armed account you still have to carry their issued .38. I'm not sure if that's true or not, considering its hersay. I checked the WI Dept of Reg. and Licensing website and looked at the list of all company armed personal in the area and lo and behold, it says .38 or S&W. A few guys have a blank in the weapon box, but I think the hersay may be true.

[N. A. Corbier]

who have worked for this company for a while, even if you are at an armed account you still have to carry their issued .38. I'm not sure if that's true or not, considering its hersay. I checked the WI Dept of Reg. and Licensing website and looked at the list of all company armed personal in the area and lo and behold, it says .38 or S&W. A few guys have a blank in the weapon box, but I think the hersay may be true.

There's a reason for that mentality. With only six shots, you will do less damage. The revolver, in untrained hands (Anything short of police training is untrained, according to law enforcement), is a high survivalbility weapon. It will not jam, and it does, the weapon is inoperable. It can be fired at any angle, any rotation, and still fire. It can be limp wristed.

The .38 caliber bullet has 100 years of case law behind it, showing that it is not "as powerful as the 9mm," and therefore, the company isn't trying to kill people, just stop them.

Oh, and my favorite about the revolver: Its cheap.

[Mr. Security]

There's a reason for that mentality. With only six shots, you will do less damage.

This is why Barney Fife, if he were working in LE today, would still have a revolver. :D

[Bill Warnock]

There are some LEO agencies that carry "wheel guns" because they have no 'new buy' money. When the FBI got rid of their S&Ws due to stovepiping, they were given to departments eagar to upgrade. They too ran into that problem and reverted back to the .38s.
I remember when I worked for a security company, they issued me a .38 and five rounds of ammunition. The hammer was to be placed over the empty chamber. The issued weapon was equipped with a hammer block and rebound slide, in other words, modern. Their policies had not been updated in close to 40 years.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Arff312]

First off on the knife issue. I am a fullt iem firefighter/ EMT and carry a knife everyday. My company i work for seucirty in has tried to tell me that i cant carry a knife. I have politely pointed out that i am a Trained and Certified rescuer who MUST by law act in a MVA or any other incident. Therefore i will carry my knife for rescue purposes. Once i brought that up they started to be lenant on not only my self but others carrying a knife. I also carry a Leather man on my belt. These are useful tools in many situations.

Now to the revoler issue. I feel that for security work a revolver is a joke. What if you have multiple subjects to engage. You have to manage the hell out of those six shoots. Plus that doesn't give you anything left over to keep a secure scene until the police arrive. You may think you are only engaging one guy but he may have partners. As for the .38 issue i think that is also bull. You should be able to carry what ever you can qualify with. In CA you can carry any gun as long as you qualify with the caliber. Revolvers were great when everyone had one. Now we are up against semi autos and autos. You simply can not prevail with a revolver. As far as training i feel Security officers should have at least 40 hours of fire arms training before qualifing, to include night fire and close quater fire. Claring a building should also be covered as you may need to before police get there based on the situation.
Thats just my opinion though.

[Mr. Security]

Now to the revoler issue. I feel that for security work a revolver is a joke. What if you have multiple subjects to engage.

In that case, you're probably dead anyhow. :D :p

Besides, it's good enough for US Marshall Matt Dillon and General Patton. ;)

[N. A. Corbier]

In that case, you're probably dead anyhow. :D :p

Police Officers, as well as security guards and armed citizens, have survived multiple shooter situations. Some have even dominated those situations, surviving with little or no injury to themselves.

This, of course, is because those individuals sought training, practiced what they learned, and were of the correct "warrior mindset."

The idea, of course, is that if you too seek trianing, learn what was trained, and incorporate that training into your daily life (both at work and not at work, there is no turning off safety, only making yourself less obvious about it), you too may survive or even dominate whatever tactical situation you are presented with.

[Taser]

This, of course, is because those individuals sought training, practiced what they learned, and were of the correct "warrior mindset."
I think the practice is a huge factor. We all know that there are plenty of security companies that do not adequately train their armed personnel. If the S/O would take it upon himself to practice, practice, practice he makes himself a much safer and better S/O. Go to the range and shoot until you can't take it anymore. Then go back the next day and do it again. Keep doing this until you are so comfortable with your weapon that you feel confident that you could neutralize a threat at a moment's notice. When you don't go to the range, practice drawing your weapon. Do this from a regular stance but also practice it while sitting down, crouching, or with your back against a wall, or with the side of your body that you carry your weapon against a wall. You never know from what position you'll have to draw your weapon. Do it until you know you've got it right. When no one's home, practice clearing your own house/apartment if you have to. Figure out all of the different angles and how best to move through the building. Obviously every building has a different layout than your house, but any practice helps.

Do the above with your gun unloaded of course. :)

[N. A. Corbier]

Two tools that are useful for protecting the public from your training, and yourself from injury, are semi and expensive.

Go over to Shorty's USA and buy a spring Airsoft gun in the weapon that you use. They're realistic, will fit in your holster, have magazines for reloading drills, and the UHC variety are actually "training weapons."

They fire 6mm pellets that sting like a bitch. You can use them for engagement drill, building search, confrontational situations, etc. They make 6mm paintballs, as well, so you can mark point of aim/point of impact for readily identifable shot placement.

The other one is a piece of plastic, the red/blue gun. This is also good so that you won't kill your neighbor.

Your real weapon might be loaded, even if you checked it twice. Its also expensive, and might not be yours. :)

Another thing, btw, is find someone who is tactically proficient, either retired LE or has taken tactical pistol, and have them spot your search tactics. If you do it alone, over and over, whatever bad habits your doing (leaning out, exposing a shoulder or a head, telegraphing, bad pie slice) will be ingrained through repetition.

Mainly, if you work for an armed company, find others and train in groups. If at least one person knows what they're doing, they can train the rest, till everyone does. Let it mushroom out from there.

[Bill Warnock]

N.A., if I might. Learn how each member of your group reacts to various situations. Learn from their body language just how they will react. Commit their responses and actions to memory, for one day it may save you from harm. If you have a partner who acts like an Alpha Hotel, mind where you are in relationship to where he or she is.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[hemi444]

No knives or tools? I know that's what your company states. Next thing you know they will be banning Mag-lites and issuing rubber coated flashlights instead!

One of my employers did not allow you to carry over a two cell mag lite. Anything over a two cell was considered a weapon to them (rubber or metal).

[N. A. Corbier]

One of my employers did not allow you to carry over a two cell mag lite. Anything over a two cell was considered a weapon to them (rubber or metal).

I've heard "rumors" and urban legends that various state laws consider anything over _____ inches in a flashlight is a weapon or dangerous device. Usually, this is the reason given by retailers on why they don't carry the 6-8 D Cell Maglite. My local Gander Mountain outdoor store carries 2-8 D Maglites.

[EMTGuard]

I carry a folding knife everywhere on and off the job. A good 'working' knife can be used for so many things that I would never consider being without one.