Tactical Defense Pen

[SecTrainer]

One of my buddies got his TDP the other day. I got a good look at it yesterday (tried it out on one of our practice dummies as well as some half-inch plywood targets we use for punch-through training, and which it shattered) and ordered my own immediately.

Here's the link - it comes in black, gray and red: Tactical Defense Pen (http://www.mil-tac.com/catalog/tdp-1__gray__5051108.htm)

...and no, I have no financial interest in the product or the company (Mil-Tac Knives) that sells it. :cool:

For "carry" purposes, this is "just my pen and PDA stylus", of course :rolleyes: . In fact, there are other "regular" pen companies that do make pen/PDA stylus combos that are much cheaper than the $90 I paid for this one, and you could use one of those for similar, ummm..."purposes". I have a couple of them, however, and they're nothing like this mother-puncher! My practice dummy isn't speaking to me now, I'm afraid. :eek:

[N. A. Corbier]

I like it, but since its purpose designed as a weapon, that makes it a concealed weapon in some states. Like that Ka-Bar TDI knife. Which means citizen carry is illegal unless you have a concealed weapon (not pistol) license.

[Mr. Security]

In addition, you may get so use to using it as a writing instrument or stylus that you leave it in your pocket while going through security at the airport or courthouse. Since it is a weapon, you might be in a pack of trouble. :eek:

[T202]

Interesting, an ink pen made of aluminum. They should market it as an indestructible ink pen instead of a weapon. Just like an aluminum flashlight is just a very durable light. ;)

[ACP01]

I haven't tried it but I think the pen I carry could go thru a practice dummy easily. BPZebra F-301. Dont' even remember where I got it. Came two in a pack and my wife carries the other one. Great pen! As I believe anything can be used in dire times I "guess" it could be used as a "defensive weapon" if needed. ;)

[N. A. Corbier]

Interesting, an ink pen made of aluminum. They should market it as an indestructible ink pen instead of a weapon. Just like an aluminum flashlight is just a very durable light. ;)

Indeed. Then it wouldn't be classified as a concealed weapon in some jurisdictions, because of "lack of intent." I'm not sure I would want metal to touch my Treo's touch screen, though... It may scratch the surface.

[EMTjon]

Indeed. Then it wouldn't be classified as a concealed weapon in some jurisdictions, because of "lack of intent." I'm not sure I would want metal to touch my Treo's touch screen, though... It may scratch the surface.

That is why you need a screen protector!

[SecTrainer]

Well, I'm not too worried about the CCW issue - first, because I've been all licensed up in that department for years, second because the off-duty situations where this might be used would be of the street variety where the choice is between being "judged by 12 or carried by 6", and where I might not have my hidey-gun or a firearm (specifically) is prohibited such as bars or school facilities. Third, it's also a legitimate control device for on-duty carry, at least until someone officially tells me otherwise.

And, like someone else mentioned above, for air travel and other situations where all "weapons" are prohibited, I have a completely innocent, commercially marketed "plain old" ;) inkpen that has somewhat similar characteristics. It's already been through the airport screeners at least 8 times and courthouse screeners - what? must be dozens of times - without exciting so much as a word of comment from any of 'em.

No one is more cognizant of "weapons" issues than I am, but I also won't live in a state of constant "legal terror" (ooh! ooh! Will someone arrest me for wearing this heavy metal chain necklace?), overanalyzing all of the possible "gotchas" until I finally come to the conclusion that I can't get dressed in the morning lest someone, somewhere might have used some common article as a weapon...like a steel-toed boot, a book, a credit card or that heavy chain necklace, for instance. You boys can't scare me away from carrying this baby or getting one for my wife (who's also CCW-licensed, incidentally)! For me, staying alive in an unaticipated bad situation takes a leetle precedence over wondering whether a thermos bottle might be considered a weapon by some overzealous prosecutor sometime somewhere who doesn't have enough to do.

Incidentally, I do also sometimes wear a heavy chain metal necklace that just happens to have a quick-disconnect clasp...quite nice-looking, actually, and it's strictly male jewelry. :cool: ...and that's been passed through screening as well once they look at it. And if it ever didn't happen to get by, it's no big deal - I wouldn't be arrested for wearing it. I'd just mail it back home. :D

Now, shall we talk about my collection of rings, or my small Mags that I've equipped with a nylon parachute cord lanyard of a very specific length (as per certain training I've had in such use)? I'm probably never without at least 3 choices of "weapon" to use, come to think of it, and I do practice looking around me for items that could be used as weapons, whether by me or the other guy - a very useful mental habit to acquire.

Heck, I've had to throw hot coffee in a guy's face before, and I was very, very thankful it was still scalding hot at the time. Produced second-degree burns at least and no one ever said a word to me about it, given the circumstances (and "circumstances" are really the key to most of these questions - not the "weapon" unless there is a specific legal prohibition - as few savvy prosecutors care to take on obvious self-defense cases).

Along those same lines, I also found myself in a biker bar one time where I took a corner table, sitting with my back to the wall, and the first thing I did was to unscrew the top off the pepper pot and kept it in easy-snatching distance, remembering how useful this was once for an old pal o' mine. It did occur to me well after I left that I'd forgotten to tighten the lid back down. :D Oh well...c'est la vie!

[UncleSal]

I like it, but since its purpose designed as a weapon, that makes it a concealed weapon in some states. Like that Ka-Bar TDI knife. Which means citizen carry is illegal unless you have a concealed weapon (not pistol) license.

Are you aware of any cases where someone was actually prosecuted for carrying that or a similar pen? How is a "concealed weapon" license different from "concealed pistol" license? Does that mean that ownership of such a pen requires more training and a more scrutinized background check than let's say a Glock 17?
Which license covers revolvers then? They're not pistols.

No offense, but we can all speculate and get into this cycle of self-fulfilling- prophecy "analysis". The pen in question (in my opinion, obviously) may very well be an overpriced gimmick riding the tactical fad wagon, but all of this legal obsessing (which our society does more of than any other in history) would definitely NOT stop me from getting one.

[N. A. Corbier]

I'll point to Florida, which does not issue concealed firearms licenses, they issue "Concealed Weapon Licenses." This allows you to carry any weapon that a citizen may legally possess consealed on their person. This includes batons/billies, tear gas over 2 ounces, swords, knives of various lengths, shotguns, lawfully stamped short barrelled rifles, pistols, automatic weapons, sticks (clubs), martial arts weapons, and anything else you care to carry.

Since this pen is clearly self-classified as a weapon by its manufacturer, it falls under Florida Statute's definition of a weapon. Just like the pen that squirts tear gas. It may write, too, but it is designed and marketed as a weapon.

Some states issue pistol licenses. Tennessee is one of them. You may not carry other types of weapons while in TN on your out of state concealed "pistol" license. As far as "A revolver is not a pistol," that depends on who you ask, the permit in TN to conceal a firearm is restricted to pistols and revolvers, yet is called a "pistol permit." In other words, thanks for playing the semantics game, the State decides what to call things.

In Wisconsin, people have been arrested for having carpet knives (a tool) in their posession while going to and from work. I have also heard of people being arrested for carrying a concealed kubaton in Kenosha. In other words, if it looks like a weapon, or its marketed as a weapon, the prosecution will assert it is a weapon for a concealed weapons charge.

As I said, some states will decide this thing is an affront to humanity and demand that it either not be carried or carried under CCW legislation. As far as, "does the owner of such a pen require..." According to the State of Florida, yes, he requires the same amount of scrutiny if he wants to carry any weapon concealed about his person. Knife, billy or club, stick, tear gas container, night stick, short barrelled rifle, automatic howitzer, sword, kubaton, sword cane, you name it, its illegal to possess in public without a CCW unless its "openly worn." Unless its a firearm or Taser, then you can't openly carry it.

Illinois requires personnel owning the Taser to get an Illinois Firearms Owner Card. Does this mean that the taser requires the same level of scrutiny as a firearm? You better believe it.

[UncleSal]

Wow. Thanks for the info. I was probably pissed at the messenger over the message. My apologies for that.

Florida sounds like an interesting State. In essence, they seem to be saying, "if you're a law-abiding citizen, we're not gonna split hairs over weaponry", which makes sense logically.

I on the other hand live in Tennessee, and I just can't see the average cop giving me a hard time over kubotans when he sees the CC license.

What can be said about WI and IL? How about something positive: both still allow moving to different States. :D :D

[N. A. Corbier]

That's the thing. My CCW only works for a pistol in TN, but in FL... I've lawfully carried a sword (don't ask...) on it. (Hint: It was not for defensive purposes, and there are no provisions for theatrical carry in public unless open)

[SecureTN]

Side Note: Welcome Uncle Sal, from another Tennessean.

[hkbladelawhk]

For legal purposes, its a pen, NOT a weapon

[sideshow]

I was at work a few nights ago, I was parked with my elbow hanging out the window. I thought to myself if someone snuck up on me, what could i do? I know getting to my knife and opening it, or going for my gun and getting it out and pointed in the right direction, would take to long to be my first choice of action. then i thought about the new craze of tactical pens, that I once laughed at. I figured I could pull a pen from my left pocket with my left hand in less than half the time it would take me to get to my gun or knife. I then thought about it more, though a blade or spike would be nice, there comes that fine line of legal to carry or not, and the time it would take to get the blade exposed, that you just wouldn't have anyhow. my question is this, whats out there that writes, and that can be put in your pocket with the cap on, not to fat, that can be pulled out quickly and be strong enough to penetrate a skull, though nobody would have the strength required to do so. I guess i mean something you can get a good grip on that won't deform upon striking something hard. I'm looking for something that can pin point a lot of force to a very small spot to increase its effectiveness. I liked the benchmade pen, but what else is out there. my job is funny I can carry a pistol, and a pocket knife, but I can't carry a baton or pepper spray which leaves me without options.

[doulos Christou]

Why waste a ton of $$ on a tacticool combat pen when you could simply go down to nearly any store and buy a pack of 10 or 12 Bic Stick pens? Sure, they are plastic, but I am willing to be the farm that it would puncture the skin of a potential assailant. Also, a regular old Sharpie makes a pretty decent kubaton. I have the Persuader from Monadnock for when I am at work, but I carry the Sharpie when I am not. A Mini-Mag Lite was also mentioned. It is a great option too. It is foolish to waste a ton of money on these things when comparable, TOTALLY LEGAL alternatives exist.

[Mr. Chaple]

http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html

But I have to agree with Dougo on this, although not about bic pens. I prefer pens that actually write when I want them to. But there are plenty of quality stanless steel and aluminum pens of good quality available for $1.00-$3.00 ea.

[doulos Christou]

http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html

But I have to agree with Dougo on this, although not about bic pens. I prefer pens that actually write when I want them to. But there are plenty of quality stanless steel and aluminum pens of good quality available for $1.00-$3.00 ea.

Bic was just an example. And...they are more suited for stabbing than for writing.

[Plugger]

Along those same lines, I also found myself in a biker bar one time where I took a corner table, sitting with my back to the wall, and the first thing I did was to unscrew the top off the pepper pot and kept it in easy-snatching distance, remembering how useful this was once for an old pal o' mine. It did occur to me well after I left that I'd forgotten to tighten the lid back down. :D Oh well...c'est la vie!

I'm curious how effective throwing pepper in someones face is for self defense.
I wonder how well it worked for your old pal.

[gixxer32404]

I'm curious how effective throwing pepper in someones face is for self defense.
I wonder how well it worked for your old pal.

I guess u have never accidentally gotten salt or pepper in your eyes??

[gixxer32404]

I'll point to Florida, which does not issue concealed firearms licenses, they issue "Concealed Weapon Licenses." This allows you to carry any weapon that a citizen may legally possess consealed on their person. This includes batons/billies, tear gas over 2 ounces, swords, knives of various lengths, shotguns, lawfully stamped short barrelled rifles, pistols, automatic weapons, sticks (clubs), martial arts weapons, and anything else you care to carry.

Since this pen is clearly self-classified as a weapon by its manufacturer, it falls under Florida Statute's definition of a weapon. Just like the pen that squirts tear gas. It may write, too, but it is designed and marketed as a weapon.

Some states issue pistol licenses. Tennessee is one of them. You may not carry other types of weapons while in TN on your out of state concealed "pistol" license. As far as "A revolver is not a pistol," that depends on who you ask, the permit in TN to conceal a firearm is restricted to pistols and revolvers, yet is called a "pistol permit." In other words, thanks for playing the semantics game, the State decides what to call things.

In Wisconsin, people have been arrested for having carpet knives (a tool) in their posession while going to and from work. I have also heard of people being arrested for carrying a concealed kubaton in Kenosha. In other words, if it looks like a weapon, or its marketed as a weapon, the prosecution will assert it is a weapon for a concealed weapons charge.

As I said, some states will decide this thing is an affront to humanity and demand that it either not be carried or carried under CCW legislation. As far as, "does the owner of such a pen require..." According to the State of Florida, yes, he requires the same amount of scrutiny if he wants to carry any weapon concealed about his person. Knife, billy or club, stick, tear gas container, night stick, short barrelled rifle, automatic howitzer, sword, kubaton, sword cane, you name it, its illegal to possess in public without a CCW unless its "openly worn." Unless its a firearm or Taser, then you can't openly carry it.

Illinois requires personnel owning the Taser to get an Illinois Firearms Owner Card. Does this mean that the taser requires the same level of scrutiny as a firearm? You better believe it.

And guessing only as an on duty so or leo.

[gixxer32404]

Wow. Thanks for the info. I was probably pissed at the messenger over the message. My apologies for that.

Florida sounds like an interesting State. In essence, they seem to be saying, "if you're a law-abiding citizen, we're not gonna split hairs over weaponry", which makes sense logically.

I on the other hand live in Tennessee, and I just can't see the average cop giving me a hard time over kubotans when he sees the CC license.

What can be said about WI and IL? How about something positive: both still allow moving to different States. :D :D
---------------------
Florida passed the new immune from civil if life is in fear.
Then they passed hb137 which doing any of the following :wheelies, 50 over speed limit, tricks/stunts, or tag improperly mounted is 1st offense $1000
2nd offense 2500
3rd offense 5 grand automatically felon.

It was meant for "crotchrockets,",yet mustangs and some others do 50 mph over speed limit.
Florida is strange.

[bigdog]

I'll point to Florida, which does not issue concealed firearms licenses, they issue "Concealed Weapon Licenses." This allows you to carry any weapon that a citizen may legally possess consealed on their person. This includes batons/billies, tear gas over 2 ounces, swords, knives of various lengths, shotguns, lawfully stamped short barrelled rifles, pistols, automatic weapons, sticks (clubs), martial arts weapons, and anything else you care to carry.

Since this pen is clearly self-classified as a weapon by its manufacturer, it falls under Florida Statute's definition of a weapon. Just like the pen that squirts tear gas. It may write, too, but it is designed and marketed as a weapon.

Some states issue pistol licenses. Tennessee is one of them. You may not carry other types of weapons while in TN on your out of state concealed "pistol" license. As far as "A revolver is not a pistol," that depends on who you ask, the permit in TN to conceal a firearm is restricted to pistols and revolvers, yet is called a "pistol permit." In other words, thanks for playing the semantics game, the State decides what to call things.

In Wisconsin, people have been arrested for having carpet knives (a tool) in their posession while going to and from work. I have also heard of people being arrested for carrying a concealed kubaton in Kenosha. In other words, if it looks like a weapon, or its marketed as a weapon, the prosecution will assert it is a weapon for a concealed weapons charge.

As I said, some states will decide this thing is an affront to humanity and demand that it either not be carried or carried under CCW legislation. As far as, "does the owner of such a pen require..." According to the State of Florida, yes, he requires the same amount of scrutiny if he wants to carry any weapon concealed about his person. Knife, billy or club, stick, tear gas container, night stick, short barrelled rifle, automatic howitzer, sword, kubaton, sword cane, you name it, its illegal to possess in public without a CCW unless its "openly worn." Unless its a firearm or Taser, then you can't openly carry it.

Illinois requires personnel owning the Taser to get an Illinois Firearms Owner Card. Does this mean that the taser requires the same level of scrutiny as a firearm? You better believe it.

In florida a citizen may open carry a taser as it is a dart-firing stungun.

[bigdog]

---------------------
Florida passed the new immune from civil if life is in fear.
Then they passed hb137 which doing any of the following :wheelies, 50 over speed limit, tricks/stunts, or tag improperly mounted is 1st offense $1000
2nd offense 2500
3rd offense 5 grand automatically felon.

It was meant for "crotchrockets,",yet mustangs and some others do 50 mph over speed limit.
Florida is strange.

Its actually immunity from civil proceedings or criminal prosecution for any lawful force not just deadly force.

[bigdog]

And guessing only as an on duty so or leo.
Any private citizen can open carry a weapon except a firearm.

[N. A. Corbier]

Any private citizen can open carry a weapon except a firearm.

Especially since the Class D license gives no authority to carry a weapon, and the Class G license only covers firearms.

The only reason that a security (whatever) in Florida can carry handcuffs, tasers, mace, batons, slapjacks, or any other weapon (other than a firearm) is because Sally Soccermom and Joe the Plumber can.

This, also, btw means that a security person could carry a sword if they wanted to.

[gixxer32404]

I thought open carry was illegal in Florida. And concealed carry only allowed with a license.


Go to a public place carrying a sword would probably get u swamped with cops and baker acted,LOL

[Nauticus]

Especially since the Class D license gives no authority to carry a weapon, and the Class G license only covers firearms.

The only reason that a security (whatever) in Florida can carry handcuffs, tasers, mace, batons, slapjacks, or any other weapon (other than a firearm) is because Sally Soccermom and Joe the Plumber can.

This, also, btw means that a security person could carry a sword if they wanted to.

I find myself curious whether or not any Florida-bases security companies would have issue with carrying a sword while on duty. :D

[N. A. Corbier]

I thought open carry was illegal in Florida. And concealed carry only allowed with a license.


Go to a public place carrying a sword would probably get u swamped with cops and baker acted,LOL

Not really. So long as you are openly carrying it, not brandishing it, nothing is going to happen to you. I know this from experience.

[Mr. Chaple]

Especially since the Class D license gives no authority to carry a weapon, and the Class G license only covers firearms.

The only reason that a security (whatever) in Florida can carry handcuffs, tasers, mace, batons, slapjacks, or any other weapon (other than a firearm) is because Sally Soccermom and Joe the Plumber can.

This, also, btw means that a security person could carry a sword if they wanted to.

That is the first good thing I have ever heard about Florida's security laws.