What Should I Carry

[aaron]

Ok i am looking for the UK laws specifically.

I have recently been employed by a major firm in the UK.

I have a patrol car with a scrolling light bar a red and blue on the front and rear dash.
Also my high beam lights flash alternitavely if i activate them, also standard siren and radio coms with the office and other guards on duty.

I need to know what i am allowed to carry as recently on patrol i had to put someone in the back of my patrol car when i was called to a code 4 which basically means unauthorised person is extremely dangerous area.

As i was casually driving to the scene it turned into a code 1 which means staff in need of assistance, i responded with my blues and twos and when i got there my colleagues had him pinned to the ground so i grabbed in bunged him in the back of my patrol car and the police had been summoned and were waiting at the main gate.

Anyway he got nicked for various offenses and the situation is pending.

Now that situation got way out of hand when the person pulled a knife on one of my colleagues so another guard ran at him and jumped him from behind, now if that was the police they would have used the asp or Mace on them.

Can my colleagues and i carry an asp baton, cs spray and cuffs.

Also what rights to citizens have on this matter.

Thanks

[Mr. Security]

Can my colleagues and i carry an asp baton, cs spray and cuffs.


I would expect your employer to know the answer to this part of your question.




Also what rights do citizens have on this matter.


Anyone from the UK care to respond?

P.S. Glad you were not harmed. :)

[aaron]

Thanks for your response and quite a lot has happened since then, here is a link if you are interested to know.

http://support.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pbgt&action=display&thread=1134854412

I know wot ure thinkin but cant belive this hapened so soon after i posted ma question

[N. A. Corbier]

Over here, many would say, "Fall back and allow the real police to handle it," but then again, your armed no better than a Constable.

Good luck getting firearms. From what I've been reading, the Home Office is trying everything BUT arming constables.

[aaron]

thanks for your reply although i would still like to know about the rights that private citizens have also :)

[N. A. Corbier]

thanks for your reply although i would still like to know about the rights that private citizens have also :)

Most, if not all, of us are US, Canada, and a Aussies, and I think a kiwi. :)

My suggestion to you would be to find a solicitor who can answer your question, and then ask your local constabulary. Somewhere between those two is the real truth.

[aaron]

true this would be a good idea but i really cant be bothered with any of that :P so just wondered if you guys knew anything about the matter?

[N. A. Corbier]

true this would be a good idea but i really cant be bothered with any of that :P so just wondered if you guys knew anything about the matter?

I had read in your other post, that the second responding officer used CS and ASP on the offender who shot the first officer. If this was you, then I have to ask why you are asking the question, as you already carry such things?

[aaron]

atm yes we do carry them,

Although we are curious about private citizens?

[S/O245]

I would say once you have done all u can do thats a good idea to fall back and let police officers take it from that point if possible. But each incident is not the same. If its a very dangerous thing you may have to hold them down etc. This all comes back to training. WE DONT GET ENOUGH TRAINING. We have no idea what we can and cant do really. And that can get you in legal trouble. As far as i know i cant detain anyone. Now I know some security personnel can detain and or even arrest at times. So since im not sure on that i just do my job to a certain point and if needed i call in the police.

Stay Safe All :)

[Mr. Security]

true this would be a good idea but i really cant be bothered with any of that :P so just wondered if you guys knew anything about the matter?

Uhh...I would be bothered unless you want to look it up in the prison library. :D :p

[N. A. Corbier]

atm yes we do carry them,

Although we are curious about private citizens?

This intreigues me. In America, unless your a Special or Regular Police Officer, you are a private citizen at all times, regardless of your profession. Our powers to carry mace and ASP are derived from a private citizen's authority (They didn't outlaw it), or in the case of some states, are granted because security officers require them to do their job.

Are security officers in the UK warranted to have more powers than a private citizen?

[N. A. Corbier]

Uhh...I would be bothered unless you want to look it up in the prison library. :D :p

I think they have powers to carry, much like a California SO with a baton permit does.

[aaron]

yes we do carry and have spares of everything we carry in our cruiser.

Plus a couple of extra cuffs in our cruise ;)

[N. A. Corbier]

... Now for the fun part.

1. Aaron, who linked us to his proboards account at http://support.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=asa201, has the email address and user name of asa_201.

2. An officer.com account of asa_201 just got the perverbial tar beat out of him for falsifying statements. In Scotland, security guards are private citizens, they are not authorized to carry the ASP Baton under Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995/2005 Part VI Sec 47 - Posession of Offensive Weapon (And a UK Criminal Control Act of 1953) & Definition of a Telescopic Baton as an Offensive Weapon (Scottish Criminal Justice Act 1998 Order 2005, Article 2, Schedule I (j) & (q)), and that having emergency lights in a vehicle is a violation of UK and Scottish law.

3. The user, asa_201, became extremely offensive when called on these things, in multiple forum posts.

4. The user showed up here after getting his proverbial ass kicked by the UK Constables over on Officer.com, and started saying the same things.

I detest people who decide to come on over here from Officer.com after they were "made" running a scam, and got yelled at by the police, then try the same damn thing over here.

[N. A. Corbier]

Mr. Corbier,
That was an outstanding A** Kicking on your part. Remind me never to get into your cross-hairs!!!

On a related subject, here's an article about one of our fellow Americans facing the dilemma of being an unarmed Police Officer in the U.K.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/10/AR2005121001222.html

Of course, anyone as High-Speed and Motivated as Mr. aaron wouldn't really need a firearm, would they?

I remember reading that story. I remember what I said about it, on SPETactical, as well. There is no way that an unarmed PC should have that level of training, and no ability to defend themselves.

We, as non-sworn security officers, have the option of disengaging and calling law enforcement. Police Constables ARE law enforcement in the UK, they don't have that option. What are they going to call? An armed anti-terrorism unit?

Even superior numbers won't replace the cold hard fact that training, tactics, and yes, even firearms, will prevent PCs from being killed as that female PC was.

As we all know, the more times you start responding to violent calls UNARMED and without proper tactical training, the more times you risk you life. Eventually, you will die.

Also, High-Speed and Motivated. I am amused. :) hehe.

The MP who was screaming, "Reinstate the Death Penality!" is insane. A man wielding a knife after robbing someone dosen't care about "Oh, its a copper, I'll get the needle!" He cares about "I shank this bitch and then I'm home free! I'll never be caught!"

[aaron]

ok enoughs enough,

It is true that i am not a police officer but yes i am a security guard, lets try and keep this message board for us and me diff from policeforums as this is ture

[N. A. Corbier]

ok enoughs enough,

It is true that i am not a police officer but yes i am a security guard, lets try and keep this message board for us and me diff from policeforums as this is ture

This message board is for security professionals in the guard, patrol, integrator, dealer, and consultant segments. However, we occasionally get people like you.

Let me make this clear: I never said you were a police officer. I said that you came onto this forum, started this topic with false statements, posted a link to another forum which also contained false statements rifle with negligent behavior, and were therefore called upon to explain these statements.

I detest liars. You notice that Mr. Security was banned from Officer.com, but we still love him. He is one of "us," and we stand up for our own. However, Mr. Security may like baiting cops, but he has never, to my knowledge, baited us.

Which, by the way, you have. You have come onto this forum with fantastic tales of driving around with police car lights, carrying prohibited weapons, and many other elements of whatever fantasy you have contribed.

Normally, on the other site, the forum members would ridicule you to the point that you would leave. However, we of this forum are a "nicer" lot, and even The_Mayor, who was the subject of ridicule for his earlier posts is a contributing member of these forums once more.

"Lets try and keep this message board for us?" I am. Comport yourself as a professional, without fantastic tales of wannabe police activity, and we can move on.

This isn't about what you did on Officer.com. This is about what you did on SecurityInfoWatch. Your silliness has been addressed on Officer.com, and here, now, as well. This didn't start out as, "Aaron is saying X Y and Z on Officer.com. This started out as Aaron said X, Y, and Z on SIW, and look! He's been shot down and proven wrong by UK Constables on Officer.com. Why is this man wasting our collective time with fiction?"

Pray, Aaron, that one of those constables do not make you a project of the Crown, and seeks to use your statements as admission of guilt. Its happened before on Officer.com.

[aaron]

This message board is for security professionals in the guard, patrol, integrator, dealer, and consultant segments. However, we occasionally get people like you.

Let me make this clear: I never said you were a police officer. I said that you came onto this forum, started this topic with false statements, posted a link to another forum which also contained false statements rifle with negligent behavior, and were therefore called upon to explain these statements.

I detest liars. You notice that Mr. Security was banned from Officer.com, but we still love him. He is one of "us," and we stand up for our own. However, Mr. Security may like baiting cops, but he has never, to my knowledge, baited us.

Which, by the way, you have. You have come onto this forum with fantastic tales of driving around with police car lights, carrying prohibited weapons, and many other elements of whatever fantasy you have contribed.

Normally, on the other site, the forum members would ridicule you to the point that you would leave. However, we of this forum are a "nicer" lot, and even The_Mayor, who was the subject of ridicule for his earlier posts is a contributing member of these forums once more.

"Lets try and keep this message board for us?" I am. Comport yourself as a professional, without fantastic tales of wannabe police activity, and we can move on.

This isn't about what you did on Officer.com. This is about what you did on SecurityInfoWatch. Your silliness has been addressed on Officer.com, and here, now, as well. This didn't start out as, "Aaron is saying X Y and Z on Officer.com. This started out as Aaron said X, Y, and Z on SIW, and look! He's been shot down and proven wrong by UK Constables on Officer.com. Why is this man wasting our collective time with fiction?"

Pray, Aaron, that one of those constables do not make you a project of the Crown, and seeks to use your statements as admission of guilt. Its happened before on Officer.com.
ok and i have taken heed lol, although i do have asps and cuffs and usually oc at ma place of work.

[N. A. Corbier]

ok and i have taken heed lol, although i do have asps and cuffs and usually oc at ma place of work.

Thank you for sharing.
Good day, sir.

[aaron]

Thank you for sharing.
Good day, sir.

no probs ;)

[N. A. Corbier]

Aaron, I just have one question. What do you need handcuffs, an ASP, and OC for at A. J. Smith Joiners Company window shop in Falkirk, Scotland?

Seriously.

[aaron]

Aaron, I just have one question. What do you need handcuffs, an ASP, and OC for at A. J. Smith Joiners Company window shop in Falkirk, Scotland?

Seriously.

ok you got a couple of things wrong there the company is ma das and it is The Kitceh Window, in Stirling but if you dont mind me asking where did u get the other info from?

[N. A. Corbier]

ok you got a couple of things wrong there the company is ma das and it is The Kitceh Window, in Stirling but if you dont mind me asking where did u get the other info from?

Google. Its a search engine. You give it people's user names, or email addresses, or other interesting things, and it tells you every forum your on, every web page, etc.

What is a "ma" and "das?"

Its a useful tool.

[aaron]

Google. Its a search engine. You give it people's user names, or email addresses, or other interesting things, and it tells you every forum your on, every web page, etc.

What is a "ma" and "das?"

Its a useful tool.

lol it means my dads sorry bout that i will try and use full words in the dictionary in the future, now can we stop with the questions all the time about my profession :p

[N. A. Corbier]

lol it means my dads sorry bout that i will try and use full words in the dictionary in the future, now can we stop with the questions all the time about my profession :p

Just trying to understand how you carry illegal weapontry, have a car with blue lights and siren, and other things that security personnel in Scotland are not authorized to have... Perhaps you could enlighten us?

[aaron]

Ok here we go,


Our cuffs, asp stay in the office or locked in the car.
Which we only use when we are at work if required.

Falkirk police and strathclyde police make exceptions in many occasions for large security firms and now for when we are in our work and we take the car home, we dont have to cover te lights, although we are only allowed to use them if there is an emergency incident at the workplace where the county allows us to use it.

[AnGardaSiochana]

Ok here we go,


Our cuffs, asp stay in the office or locked in the car.
Which we only use when we are at work if required.

Falkirk police and strathclyde police make exceptions in many occasions for large security firms and now for when we are in our work and we take the car home, we dont have to cover te lights, although we are only allowed to use them if there is an emergency incident at the workplace where the county allows us to use it.

Hi, GS from officer.com, wont be posting her ebut AN showed me this clowns comments.

Aaron (ASA_201, Batman, Radioactive man)
Stop talking ****. You do NOT carry these items. Why would a company in falkirk allow you to carry illegal items that you are no allowed use? Why would they provide blue lights which you are not allowed use?

Fols, Falkirk is a small place, it doesnt have any large companies there. Aaron refuses to say where he works (because if he did I would phone and check all this out) and his profile claims he is a student.

Come one Aaron, stop embarrasing yourself and go play with your model plane for a while. (Yep Google.com again) :)

[aaron]

god i cant believe u came here as well and think about falkirk again, there is a huge company there, in grangemouth, fuels have the country

[AnGardaSiochana]

As per all my previous posts. Provide some proof of any of your claims. You backtrack more than a scared rabbit.

Your not a cop, your not a security guard, your a bored, immature little boy sitting in his room in a small town. Your probable aint even a student as per your profile.

[aaron]

go Back To Officer.com

[Tennsix]

go Back To Officer.com
Why is this such a touchy subject?

[Mr. Security]

Deleted. Point has been well made. :)