No Calls/ No Shows

[Tiger155]

Greetings:

They call it by different names, but it all boils down to the same issue:-

1). The officer is supposed to be at at work at a certain time. He has been notified and written in the schedule. He is informed that he has up to four hours to notify the dispatcher if he cannot report for duty. The dispatcher gets a call fromthe client that your guard is not there. Its now 5 min after the hour of the post assignment. You do no hear from the officer. OK, you send someone else tehre who is near by and that post is covered in 20 min - later!!

2). The company rules and regulations states '..any one No Call/No Show is grounds for immediate termination." It is signed and acknowledged by the officer before imployment and reiterated to the applicant during inyterviews as well.

3). Now, the officer at #1 above pulls the No Call/No Show. What can be done:-

a). Termination follows in this case. (Please keep in mind that all the necessary precautions have been made to make certain taht the office was not hospitalized-emergency room-nor anything that would have made it impossible for him/her to report to work or call out given sufficient time).

b). What is your local state regulations for unemployment benefits for this officer if he applies. Keep in mind here that while the state can award the person unemployment insurance, the state may either charge i). The state account or ii) The company account.

Which account should be charged in the above instance with the No Call/No Show violation.

c). What does your company do under this situation.

4). Lastely: Why should your company be alarmed at the No Call/No Show violation of your security guards. Does this not mean that when the guard pulls a No Call/No Show taht he is just saying to you that he is resigning and that he does not want your job again?

ps. In some states, unemployment will be denied a person if they are terminated from a company for misconduct. However, in some of the depertment of labor offices, they view and accept a No Call/No Show as a persons resignation. So how would you counter this position and maintain your own rules and regulations as necessary for the security industry.

I am gathering some infomation to find out how this subject is viewed around the country. Some companies feel that absent any emergency force manjure reasons, the officer is telling you they do not care or think much about your company and his/her duties.

Tiger155

[Mr. Security]

We call them "book-offs." It does happen, but the site should still be covered by the officer from the prior shift who is not permitted to leave until properly relieved.

We do the following:
- Attempt to call the guard. Could have overslept.
- Arrange for another guard to cover the shift OR ask the officer on-site if he is willing to work a double.
- If the guard doesn't report, we write him up.
- If he is on probation, we terminate him on the second no-show.
- If past probation, we write him up again as a final warning. Guard is also placed back on probation.
- Third time, guard is terminated.

[N. A. Corbier]

We called it, "Resignation without notice," and is specifically addressed as "failure to obey company policy." "Failure to obey company policy" is grounds for denial of unemployment claim in Florida.

If it was a probationary, "Employee failed probationary period" was all that was required.

[DizZy SO]

Late: verbal warning
2 - 3 lates: written warning
4 lates: 1 to 3 days suspension
5 lates: termination

No Call: written warning or 1 day suspension (depending on circumstances)
Second consecutive day of No Call: employee considered as resigned
Non-consecutive day of No Call: 3 day suspension

Security Officers must call 4 hours before start of shift to call off and talk direclty with the Shift Supervioser.

[Mr. Security]

Late: verbal warning
2 - 3 lates: written warning
4 lates: 1 to 3 days suspension
5 lates: termination

No Call: written warning or 1 day suspension (depending on circumstances)
Second consecutive day of No Call: employee considered as resigned
Non-consecutive day of No Call: 3 day suspension

Security Officers must call 4 hours before start of shift to call off and talk direclty with the Shift Supervioser.

Many companies, including the one I work for, have that policy. It works--most of the time. However, anyone who has experienced a bout with the flu can testify that you can feel fine one hour, and yet be completely overcome by the virus within 2 hours.

If that happens, get a doctor's excuse in writing and submit it to your supervisor and HR. That should prevent them from risking any disciplinary action.

[hrdickinson]

I believe that in Texas (and most states) it is considered "termination for cause" and unemployment benefits are denied.

Why should a security contractor care about no call/no shows? Number one, when you have to learn it from the client, you have BIG problem. Too many of those, and you will be replaced. Also, if it's 168, the S.O. working the prior shift can (and should according to most companies' policies) hold over. But what about a cold start? You have an open post for 30 mins., or longer. during which time there could be a major incident and you (the contractor)would be liable.

Oversleeping happens sometimes, unfortunately. There are very few other excuses for not calling someone.

There is some pretty good software on the market that tracks call-ins from officers and automatically calls the phone number of your choice when a call is not received within a certain number of minutes of the shift start. The calls also update the timekeeping and payroll records automatically.

[Mr. Security]

I believe that in Texas (and most states) it is considered "termination for cause" and unemployment benefits are denied.

Why should a security contractor care about no call/no shows? Number one, when you have to learn it from the client, you have BIG problem. Too many of those, and you will be replaced. Also, if it's 168, the S.O. working the prior shift can (and should according to most companies' policies) hold over. But what about a cold start? You have an open post for 30 mins., or longer. during which time there could be a major incident and you (the contractor)would be liable.

Oversleeping happens sometimes, unfortunately. There are very few other excuses for not calling someone.

There is some pretty good software on the market that tracks call-ins from officers and automatically calls the phone number of your choice when a call is not received within a certain number of minutes of the shift start. The calls also update the timekeeping and payroll records automatically.

This software can easily be defeated by having someone else call in for you using your code.

[HotelSecurity]

I had a case like this this past summer & am still dealing with it. One of my guys did not show up for 3 scheduled shifts. We don't have 24 hour a day coverage at this hotel & he wasn't noticed missing by the Night Auditor until about a half hour into the scheduled shift. He didn't show up the next 2 shifts either. Finally he calls me & says that he can't deal with working night shifts so he quits. He comes for his pay at the end of the the with a paper from a Doctor saying that he hurt his back the last shift he worked. (I found out he left the hotel in the middle of the night to go to the hospital & didn't call me). He claimed to have hurt his back lifting newspapers. The Doctos's paper says he can't lift more than 5kg for a week, nothing about not being able to work. I believe he brought the paper in order to be paid for the night he walked out. My HR department says that the fact he brought a Doctor's paper means he did not quit. So there he is, even up to today on my payroll. I refuse to schedule him. He doesn't complain but offically he stays an employee. I guess it doen't make a difference because in Canada if you quit or are fired you don't get unemployment insurance.

[Jackhole]

We call them "book-offs."
Really? Wherever I've worked, "book off" means to call in sick, personal, etc.

[Mr. Security]

Really? Wherever I've worked, "book off" means to call in sick, personal, etc.

No kidding? Go figure.

[Tiger155]

Greetings To All:

Thank very juch for your inputs into this topic.

HrDickerson you made a point about "..having to learn it from your client, thats BIG trouble." Indeed therein lies the "hook" for the unemployment hearings.

In new York State I argue this issue between different members of the unemployment hearing boards. Some agree taht the office has RESIGNED, while some say their action is tatamount to "misconduct" within the terms of the denial of benefits. I read some of the New York State Unemployment Court of Appeal cases, but none of them have ever addressed this matter-no one has ever brought this matter for them to hear.

I have spoken to a number of o5ther private security colledgues in and around the New York area and many of them when I ask if they are aware of any of their former employees terminated for No Call/No Show receiving unemployment from "THIER ACCOUNT". The reply I got back was NO, hwoever, they could not be sure. It would appear that many of the personnel directors in the security companies do not "VIEW" their unemplyment rating benefit sheets. If they would, they would see that some of their terminated employees are receiving unemployment from the company's account, instead of the city or state account!

Anyway, I would suggest that those of you who might not see teir unemployment rating sheets, should ask to see same, and for yourself verify if indeed that person who was terminated by you for "misconduct" is not receiving unemplyment at your direct expence of your company account.
Especiually for this kind of misconduct.

Thanks to all for your comments.

Tiger155

[tlangsr]

every company I had told us that if we don't call, don't show we don't have a job.

[SecTrainer]

The importance of laying the groundwork for termination before you even hire someone cannot be overstated...and this starts with formal, written policies.

An employee handbook in which these policies are stated in writing is given to the employee, plus one copy for his future reference. In one, which is kept in his file, he signs a form stating that he has read and understood the policies. It is best if this handbook is presented during a formal new-employee orientation session in which these policies are not merely read, but are specifically discussed and explained, one by one. One thing that's very important is that the handbook states that employment is "at will", and that the handbook itself does NOT constitute a "contract" with the employee in which employment is guaranteed for any period of time or any other guarantees are made.

Also established by company policy is a procedure for disciplining employees. Usually, this takes the form of "progressive discipline" (the steps being verbal warning, written warning, mandatory training/re-training, transfer, suspension with pay, suspension without pay, and then termination), but the policy also provides that "progression" through these steps is not required in every instance of employee misconduct and that management reserves the right, for cause and for business reasons, to proceed immediately to any disciplinary action, including termination, if the violation warrants it.

Finally, the disciplinary policy must be followed religiously with ALL EMPLOYEES who commit SIMILAR VIOLATIONS of company policy or procedure. You can't pick and choose that you'll fire this guy for being late once, but you'll give this guy a verbal warning, etc. You always want to be able to show that the actions you took with any particular employee were consistent with the way you always handle similar violations.

It's good when the company is setting up these policies and disciplinary procedures to go to the trouble to find a good labor law attorney and run them by him. There are so many pitfalls these days that only someone who specializes in this area of the law can hope to keep up with them.

[Chucky]

IMO the bottom line is that when you are willing to work for such a low wage then there shouldn't be the amount of expectations as some of you are speaking about. In my area of the country unarmed get an average of $10.00 per hr with little or no chance of a raise. This is no secret as we have posted about this problem before.

Again IMO this should not be an issue if the hiring plan for your company was a little more focused on what makes a good and loyal employee besides the money. When I worked for an unarmed ten dollar company they where smart enough to realize that young people can make a lot more doing almost anything else. So unless they are in college and need subsistence money then there has to be another reason why they would work security.

They also realized that a lot of todays retires didn't have access to the benefits that would see them with insurance or even food on their tables yet they did have at least some type of income and only need a little to get by on.

I honestly can't remember any no shows or screw ups while I was there.
Some of these guys were employed for many years slaving in a factory or such that one day closed their doors leaving them flat on their butts. These guys are more than happy to have a more age appropriate job. Granted some security requires good physical condition but most not that level.

[BoxerGuard]

Good points Chucky, you get what you pay for.

I charge most of my clients a rate of $13 an hour. I classify my work as "In House" security (no guard card, but I have several clients). I juggle the shifts back to back. Sometimes I am late or just plain no show.

If they want to fire me. I can just fire them. :p

[SecTrainer]

I classify my work as "In-House" security (no guard card, but I have several clients). Sometimes I am late or just plain no show.

In that case, I'd classify you more as "Out-House Security", if you get my meaning. That, or a TROLL.

[Chucky]

Good points Chucky, you get what you pay for.

I charge most of my clients a rate of $13 an hour. I classify my work as "In House" security (no guard card, but I have several clients). I juggle the shifts back to back. Sometimes I am late or just plain no show.

If they want to fire me. I can just fire them. :p

Thank you for proving my point.

[N. A. Corbier]

Good points Chucky, you get what you pay for.

I charge most of my clients a rate of $13 an hour. I classify my work as "In House" security (no guard card, but I have several clients). I juggle the shifts back to back. Sometimes I am late or just plain no show.

If they want to fire me. I can just fire them. :p
Countdown till this guy is found, his information publically posted on the internet, then reported to his state authorities for unlicensed business activity has begun.

[SecTrainer]

Countdown till this guy is found, his information publically posted on the internet, then reported to his state authorities for unlicensed business activity has begun.

As I posted elsewhere, I'd be inclined to begin with authorities at the forum end of the chain, providing copies of the relevant posts and traceroute information. Being that this is a security officer, my guess is that they'll run with the ball.

[BoxerGuard]

We really need less snitches in this industry. How would you like it if I followed you around this forum, nagging you, threatening to tell on you? Please Grow Up.

[LPGuy]

We really need less snitches in this industry.

What do you think this is, the drug world?

Those employed in this industry are held to a high standard, and violators should be reported, arrested, and fired.

[SecTrainer]

We really need less snitches in this industry. How would you like it if I followed you around this forum, nagging you, threatening to tell on you? Please Grow Up.

When it comes to the things you've admitted to doing and the violent tendencies you display, I'm afraid I have to disagree. People like you is precisely what this industry must proactively rid itself of - and be quick about it.

[tlangsr]

We really need less snitches in this industry. How would you like it if I followed you around this forum, nagging you, threatening to tell on you? Please Grow Up.

Don't you realize that part of our job is to go to the authorities, or "snitch, as you put it, if we see or find illegal activities.

[hrdickinson]

We really need less snitches in this industry. How would you like it if I followed you around this forum, nagging you, threatening to tell on you? Please Grow Up.

I think following N.A.Corbier around this forum or anywhere else waiting for him to make an ethical slip would be a major waste of your time. This forum is for serious security professionals who understand the laws and who don't take shortcuts. IMO N.A. is certainly one of those people.

[tlangsr]

I think following N.A.Corbier around this forum or anywhere else waiting for him to make an ethical slip would be a major waste of your time. This forum is for serious security professionals who understand the laws and who don't take shortcuts. IMO N.A. is certainly one of those people.

I couldn't have said it better.

[N. A. Corbier]

I don't actually think Boxer is talking about me. :) RealSecurity, on the other hand, has some kind personal problem. Most likely because he's a repeat customer, one who it was determined was illegally running a security company in Minnesota while being a felon. He threw a little fit on these forums, then left.

[BoxerGuard]

When it comes to the things you've admitted to doing and the violent tendencies you display, I'm afraid I have to disagree. People like you is precisely what this industry must proactively rid itself of - and be quick about it.


Thats just your opinion. Your opinion doesn't mean that I should be out of work.

[jeff194307]

Makes me wonder if a security officer caught him doing something that caused him to be a felon in the first place.

[HotelSecurity]

Hey Boxerguard. Have you ever testified in court? Or is all this a result of frustration, you guard a sewage plant or something? If you have did you really put your hand on the bible & swear to tell the whole thruth & nothing but the truth? Did a bolt of lighning hit you?

[mbmx13]

People like Boxer make me sick. I jump through all the legal hoops and red tape, the IRS, the lawyers for business issues and he just goes out and freelances to anyone that will hire him without a license. I am betting that he doesn't even pay taxes or report his illegal business to the IRS!

This behavior is unethical, despicable, and if I find out where he is conducting illegal activity, I will make it a point to contact the authorities and make an example of him to show others like him that there is a right way and a wrong way to do things.

Some people look at Security like it is some kind of a joke, we are just rent-a-cops, etc. I am going to do my best with my new company to exceed the public expectations for security and provide a professional, efficient service while obeying all of the required rules and regulations.

I have already had tentative offers for Security and Investigative services and luckily, those clients have enough decorum and respect for due process that they are willing to wait for my PI and PPO license to be issued. 3 weeks longer and I should have it in hand!

I am hoping others on this forum second my feelings about this Boxer character!

[LPGuy]

I am hoping others on this forum second my feelings about this Boxer character!

Don't worry--these feelings are unanimous. If half of what BoxerGuard says is true (and I have a hard time believing anything he says), he's an unlicensed hired thug/muscle who works strip clubs and night clubs. He's a felon and a criminal, and I refuse to call him a security officer. Just because he wants to wear the title doesn't make him such.

I could play doctor all day long but that doesn't mean I'm a physician.

[HotelSecurity]

He;s a troll. He probably never worked security in his life.

[Mr. Security]

Seems to me that if he continues to post when administration has made it clear he's not welcome, then he is harassing via the internet.