Having vehicles towed off property.

[3rd_shift]

What liabilities can arise from that?

Especially if the property owner does not have the spaces clearly marked for daytime and nightime as to who can park where?

[N. A. Corbier]

Totally depends on your state laws. In Florida, with the proper signage, any "unauthorized vehicle" can be towed by a private towing operator any time of day or night. The owner is responsible for reclaiming it.

We towed for anything. No sticker? Gone. No warning, just gone. The warning was the "Unauthorized vehicles will be towed away" sign. Sideways parking? Gone. etc. al.

Check your state and city ordinances as to towing. For example, in Wisconsin, we cannot tow up here. A law enforcement officer must be summoned, who at his whim will decide what to do with the "trespassing vehicle." It may simply be decided to remain there, etc. If you attempt private impound, its Grand Theft.

[3rd_shift]

I'm in Texas.
Mine was towed last weekend from an unmarked spot at a friend's apartment complex.
I didn't know it was in the wrong spot and my friend didn't know I was parked there.
I ended up spending the night there.
Next morning my pickup truck was gone.
I reported it to 911.
911 gave me the # to call the towing company that had taken it.
Reason it was taken;
No parking permit.
I didn't know one was needed.
Anyone can just drive in and park and not know.
There was no access gate or anything like that.
Plus no signage that could be seen with the parking lot lights out.

When I worked security, I always gave a warning sticker a few times 1st and it usually worked.
Plus I was told not to have any vehicles towed due to liability concerns.

There was no warning in my case.

Here is a picture of where it was parked.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0032.jpg

Here is another angle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0033.jpg

Just a $254.40 demand and vehicle registration 9 miles away from the complex.

The resident I was visiting paid for it even though he didn't know where I had parked to begin with.
Most places I have ever worked security had thier spaces clearly marked.

[N. A. Corbier]

Hmm, interesting. Like I said, in Florida, the property must clearly have "715" signs at all entrances. That's your warning. Check the entrances and exits. if there's no signage whatsoever, check Texas Criminal Code, and see how private impounds are handled.

You may get a refund out of it. The property I worked where we towed without warning was gated with 715 signs on the gates themselves. It also had less parking spaces than it did apartments. :(

[Mall Director]

Yeah, we have signage at all entrances in the parking lot. We tow like mad as well. Typically, if its not overkill by the owner, we have those neat florescent "tard" stickers we stick to the window.. THey are the fott long by foot long biggies, with the pretty image of a tow truck, and states "Parking Violation".. Generally it takes alot of effort to get it off your glass!

Those things work wonderful, and are entertaining! You stick it, pull away, hide somewhere, where you can watch the car. Owner comes out, scratches at it while passerbys glare and look at him. This peer pressure thing of "i am an idiot" works wonders. Even if it is snowing or raining, they tend to get into their cars, roll the window down, so no one can see their "special sign", and drive away misserably..LOL.. We have had a major reduction of parking lot violations! Ever catch a car in traffic with one of those humongous stickers attached.. The owner doesnt look pleased, while everyone else stares at him! OMG, its fun.. I think even better than towing.

We are nice and try to warn first in most cases, except arrests, then we just make the arrested subjet happier, cause once they get out of jail, they find they have to pay even more for the storage while they were "gone on their vacation"!

[Eric]

I do not pretend to know the laws of Texas, but how much of a fight do you want? If you have the time, you may want to read up on local bylaws for the city and residential complex. Ask your friend about what the lease says concerning parking. Talk with a lawyer if you can get a free first consultation, and talk with building management, tenant group and the company providing the tows. Print out those pictures to bring with you.

The one picture shown, is that a handicap sign?

At the very least, they should have signs up and be sure all Tenants know of the strict enforcement to advise guests.

[Mr. Security]

Step one is exactly what Nathan said. Know your laws or learn them. Here's what I prefer if the law allows:

1st time - A kindly reminder and recording of the vehicle info.
2nd - A violation sticker. Don't obstruct the driver's vision w/it.
3rd - The BOOT. Violator must pay fine to get the car.

The police will not do ANYTHING on private property over here, unless it affects public safety.

[Arrowslinger]

In front of my townhouse, the number at the center of my two spots and other homeowners are the warnings. I myself have never had anyone towed, but our homeowners association newsletter always has the towing company phone number in it each month.

There is also a sign at each parking entrance, that says "Any unauthorized parked vehicle can be towed at anytime". We also have city stickers in every town here, never heard of one being towed for not having one? But I tell all my friends not to park overnight unless they have one, the local community saftey officer loves to level those 50 dollar tickets.

[N. A. Corbier]

When I lived in Schaumberg with Yui while she was in college in town (Art school... It looked like an office building, it WAS an office building) the apartment complex had really strange signs up, noting that unauthorized parking was illegal (Schaumburg City Ordinance blah), and that trespassing was illegal (Another Schaumburg City Ordinance), and that tow operators could pull on site.

A friend of Yui's got a 75 dollar ticket for having her vehicle on private property for more than 24 hours because it wasn't registered with one of those stickers. I was in shock, I mean... You have to have a permit to be IN the city with your car?

[HotelSecurity]

Step one is exactly what Nathan said. Know your laws or learn them. Here's what I prefer if the law allows:

1st time - A kindly reminder and recording of the vehicle info.
2nd - A violation sticker. Don't obstruct the driver's vision w/it.
3rd - The BOOT. Violator must pay fine to get the car.

The police will not do ANYTHING on private property over here, unless it affects public safety.

They used to use the BOOT a lot in Montreal. Then the law was changed. You are no longer allowed to "seize without a judgement". So you have to have a judgement against the owner of the car before you can boot it.

[3rd_shift]

Here is another picture showing the actual "paperwork".

The paperwork. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0036x2.jpg)

Now I did find a sticker on my truck at the apartments where I live at last year.
I had stopped in to get the mail and walked up into my apartment nearby instead of moving my vehicle out of the mail only parking spot and parking it in the spot I normally do before heading into my apartment.
An absent minded mistake on my part there with a friendly reminder found on my truck the next day when I realized why it was not in the usual parking spot on the other side of the building. :p

[Mr. Security]

They used to use the BOOT a lot in Montreal. Then the law was changed. You are no longer allowed to "seize without a judgement". So you have to have a judgement against the owner of the car before you can boot it.

Ah man. They took all the fun out of it. :D

[3rd_shift]

I'm kinda leaning toward going after the apartment property for not posting clear signage showing where one can park with, or without a permit.
The lighting there is quite poor at night.
No towing company I know of yet, would care how clear the signage is.
I'll check my local laws on it, and get more pictures. ;)

[T202]

I would almost be tempted to take it to court. But if you lose, you may get stuck with court cost.
What does it say in your first picture near the bottom in red paint? Something about "Parking"? I'm guessing that this wasn't visible that night.
Go there the same time of night that you did on that date. Take pictures of the parking spot from inside of your vehicle,with same amount of light that was there that night. (headlights on high or low beam) This will show the judge what you saw when you pulled into the spot. Maybe he will be in a good mood and side with you. Then again maybe he will be in a bad mood. :confused:

[N. A. Corbier]

Since you were not given notice, I'd say that you have enough to go before the court pursuant to Texas Code.

In Florida, there is no recourse, actually. Tow companies won't tow without the sign (They provide it), and we can tow for any reason whatsoever. I've yanked cars for infractions as slight as a busted tail light. Why? Insane management demanded all vehicles be operable, and defined operable as "100% compliant with the motor vehicle code." When you have a huge busted tail light, its unfortunately way too obvious not to ignore.

No warning either. See it, wrecker comes that night, pull it.

[GCMC Security]

when i worked panama city beach during spring break guests were given a tag and thier info was stored by the front desk. When we checked the parking lot if they didn't have a tag we would call the front desk if it wasn't registered, we would take one of those big markers the HS kids use for prom in stuff and right TOW real big on the rear window. Roughly once an hour during the day the tow company that the hotel contracted with would drive by and hook up any marked. At night we called them to get them.

On an aside half the time by the time the tow company would get there the car would be way gone!

[T202]

Chapters 684 and 685 will tell you everything you want to know about parking in Texas. Good Luck.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/tn.toc.htm

[3rd_shift]

Thanks for the link and info T202. :)
Interesting..
I'll look into it even further.
I'll also be taking some more pictures today.

These wil mostly be posted as links in the future instead from now on,
to keep this thread from taking too long to load.


What does it say in your first picture near the bottom in red paint?

It used to say; "No Parking Fire Lane"

[Arrowslinger]

It used to say; "No Parking Fire Lane"

I was also curious as to what that writing was, now you know who ever is in charge of that will claim it is still a fire lane.

[N. A. Corbier]

I can make out the words "NO PARKING," and a red line. I bet its enough, too.

[T202]

I believe that the red no parking line is a continuation of the red curb marking the fire lane. I take this as meaning no parking to the left of the line. (Double parking) Since your paper work states that the tow was because there wasn’t a permit on your vehicle, I guess the next thing to find out is if they have to have signs stating that all vehicles without permits will be towed. Is this going to be on Court TV? :)

[3rd_shift]

Is this going to be on Court TV? :)

It's a thought.....
Should be no less entertaining than what is usually on. :)

I took more photos of the entry tow sign that was facing the wrong way where nobody could read it coming in. :eek:

I'm off to bed now...busy week.

I'll get those photos posted this weekend. ;)

[HotelSecurity]

Judges love photos. I don't need & don't have a car anymore but when I had one I used to fight just about every parking ticket I got just to get the experience in testifying in court. (I won about 75%of the time!). Judges love phots. Even if they don't show something! I had one ticket where I had parked in a bus zone. The sign indicating the no stopping area had been hit by a truck & was wrapped around the pole. I could not see it. In Montreal in the winter yellow lines on the curbs are useless.

After getting the ticket I went back the next day to take photos. The bent sign had been replaced with a spanking new one. I took photos of it along with the scrathes on the pole where the old sign used to be. The judge believed me & I won! :cool:

[DizZy SO]

Before I tell my story let me tell you a little about the site I work at. It is closed to the public, but the roads and allies between the buildings are public. Most of the problems we encounter are with the public. The other day a car stop in the middle of the ally and the driver and passenger get (catches the CCO’s attention). The passenger is a kid and gets in the driver’s side and driver, an adult, gets in the passenger side and they drive away and back again and all over the different allies and roads. The CCO calls the police. While we’re waiting for the police the car almost hits an on coming car on the main road and then almost hits a parked car in a parking lot. The police show up. While the CCO and the cop are talking here comes the car and stops right in the ally and the kid gets out of the driver’s side all on camera while the cop is watching. The cop gets outside the adult parked the car and both the adult and kid went inside the apartment. The cop is hiding behind a pickup and is waiting for them to come out. The adult comes out and “BAM” bright light. The cop talks to him the kid comes out. Talk…talk…talk. Paper work, license and stuff. “BAM”, fine. As time passes about 5 or 6 people come outside. The cop is getting nervous (two days earlier a cop was shoot) he’s calling on the radio and calling. Another police car comes. “BAM and by the way we’re towing your car.”

[3rd_shift]

Here is the entrance I took into the lot. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0037.jpg)

Now coming into the parking lot. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0038.jpg)

In the parking lot. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0039.jpg)

Further into the lot. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0040.jpg)

Making a left turn into another area of the lot. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0041.jpg)

Proceeding to the area where my truck was towed. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0042.jpg)

To recap from earlier;
Here is a picture of where it was parked.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0032.jpg

Here is another angle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0033.jpg

Turned around and coming back out. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0043.jpg)

There it is!! a sign. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0044.jpg)

A close up of that sign. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0045.jpg)

Is this the visitors' parking? (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0046.jpg)

It could be in the daytime if everyone had eagles' eyes, or at night with owls' eyes. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0048.jpg)

The truck that was towed. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0050.jpg)

Was that damage there before, or after the towing incident?

Dents on top of the little truck. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0051.jpg)

More dents on the hood. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0052.jpg)

None of the damage was documented when the truck was taken away.
Who is responsible?

Rental cars;
Who is responsible for new damage, or damage not documented on the rental car before it leaves the lot?

You guys see where I'm going with this?

Of course, your local laws may a little to a lot.

A picture of the towing paperwork again.
The paperwork. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/3rd_shift/IMG_0036x2.jpg)

[T202]

If your pictures clearly show that the sign was not visible as you entered the complex, its time to take it to court.

684.031. GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR SIGN PROHIBITING
UNAUTHORIZED VEHICLES. (a) Except as provided by Subsection
(a)(2)(B) and Section 684.034 or 684.035 an unauthorized vehicle
may not be towed under Section 684.012(a)(1) unless a sign
prohibiting unauthorized vehicles on a parking facility is:
(1) facing and conspicuously visible to the driver of
a vehicle that enters the facility;

[VertigoODO]

Check out HR 1173 109th district Congress... Deals with State and Local predatorial towing practices. Its not signed into law yet, but when it does, ONLY property management, NOT SECURITY will be allowed to tow cars.

[N. A. Corbier]

Wonderful. Does it say anything about "agents of management?" Because its trivial for a property management company to argue that the security officer is an agent of management.

Granted, in Wiscosnin, only a sworn LEO may tow a vehicle off private property, an owner may not.

[VertigoODO]

Wonderful. Does it say anything about "agents of management?" Because its trivial for a property management company to argue that the security officer is an agent of management.

Granted, in Wiscosnin, only a sworn LEO may tow a vehicle off private property, an owner may not.

It says property management only, and it specifies that Security, Tow Companies, and Parking Enforcement Companies CANNOT BE AGENTS!!!

[N. A. Corbier]

It says property management only, and it specifies that Security, Tow Companies, and Parking Enforcement Companies CANNOT BE AGENTS!!!
As I suspected. How lovely.

[N. A. Corbier]

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.1173:

It looks like the bill will make it so that states may regulate tow truck operations "as they see fit," the language in this bill is very vague. All it does is...

change

49 USC 14501(c)(2)(C) does not apply to the authority of a State or a political subdivision of a State to enact or enforce a law, regulation, or other provision relating to the price of for-hire motor vehicle transportation by a tow truck, if such transportation is performed without the prior consent or authorization of the owner or operator of the motor vehicle.

to...

49 USC 14501(c)(2)(C) does not apply to the authority of a State or a political subdivision of a State to enact or enforce a law, regulation, or other provision replating to the regulation of tow truck operations.

Basically, what this does is change the law so that states may enact laws relating to the towing of vehicles that have the owner's consent. Right now, states cannot enact laws relating to the towing of vehicles that have the owner's consent.

What you're describing, is not in this bill. The only thing this bill does is enable states to make laws related to tow truck operations, removing the limit that only the Interstate Commerce Commission through US Code may.

Is there a companion bill in a state legislature or somewhere (This was sponsored by Virginia, with no co-sponsors) that would enact this?

Because, as it stands, the bill simply makes it so that states can enact legislation to regulate towing in all situations, at the state level.

A good example of their power to do this for private impounds is Wisconsin's towing rule (Only a law enforcement officer may order a vehicle towed off private property without consent of the owner or operator, at his sole discretion.)

[casec1]

In CA., security is considered the agent of the owner and is backed by 602 P.C.
I have towed many vehicles and heard all the excuses. Believe it or not, it's not entirely up to you to know the rules as to where not to park, what time the pool closes, etc... It is the responsibility of the tenant to let u know about the rules...He lives there, u don't...Most sites I had gave a warning citation. Next violation, the 11-85's come out...:)

[Andy Taylor]

I worked for a very unethical company once that owned a tow company as well as a security company. Security officers would get a $5 bonus for every car towed. I only worked there for about a month. That was about 29 days to long.

[SecTrainer]

Just to clarify: The states have always regulated and licensed tow companies operating within their borders - the feds don't, nor would the federal powers under the Constitution permit the federal government to do so, except that the feds probably can regulate certain aspects of towing or any other transport operations that may pertain to interstate commerce.

For instance, here's the Washington State tow operator's handbook explaining the state laws and regulations pertaining to tow services: Tow Operator Handbook (http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/vehicletransport/RTTOMan04.pdf) . The feds don't regulate tow services at all, and never have, to my knowledge. This would be akin to the feds regulating barber shops or wrecking yards.

This is why, for instance, many if not most states permit either "public" or "private" vehicle impounds, meaning those instigated by a public agency versus those that are instigated by the owner of private property.

The powers of the federal government are only those that are specifically granted to it as enumerated in the Constitution; all other authority of any kind resides with the individual states.

[HotelSecurity]

In Montreal they are regulated by a city by-law enforced by a department of the city that enforces taxi & towing companies.

[Mr. Security]

Just to clarify: The states have always regulated and licensed tow companies operating within their borders - the feds don't, nor would the federal powers under the Constitution permit the federal government to do so, except that the feds probably can regulate certain aspects of towing or any other transport operations that may pertain to interstate commerce.

For instance, here's the Washington State tow operator's handbook explaining the state laws and regulations pertaining to tow services: Tow Operator Handbook (http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/vehicletransport/RTTOMan04.pdf) . The feds don't regulate tow services at all, and never have, to my knowledge. This would be akin to the feds regulating barber shops or wrecking yards.

This is why, for instance, many if not most states permit either "public" or "private" vehicle impounds, meaning those instigated by a public agency versus those that are instigated by the owner of private property.

The powers of the federal government are only those that are specifically granted to it as enumerated in the Constitution; all other authority of any kind resides with the individual states.

You're right, which is why the Fed's withhold critical funding to the states that fail to tow-the-line (no pun intended) regarding policy. An example is when the speed limit was reduced from 70 mph to 55 mph back in 1973 to save fuel and lives. Money talks. ;)

[james2go30]

Totally depends on your state laws. In Florida, with the proper signage, any "unauthorized vehicle" can be towed by a private towing operator any time of day or night. The owner is responsible for reclaiming it.

We towed for anything. No sticker? Gone. No warning, just gone. The warning was the "Unauthorized vehicles will be towed away" sign. Sideways parking? Gone. etc. al.

Check your state and city ordinances as to towing. For example, in Wisconsin, we cannot tow up here. A law enforcement officer must be summoned, who at his whim will decide what to do with the "trespassing vehicle." It may simply be decided to remain there, etc. If you attempt private impound, its Grand Theft.
Thats how it is here...no guest pass or owner decal is a tow...parking over 15 mins in the 15 min parking is a tow...parking in an owner space...imediate tow.

[james2go30]

when i worked panama city beach during spring break guests were given a tag and thier info was stored by the front desk. When we checked the parking lot if they didn't have a tag we would call the front desk if it wasn't registered, we would take one of those big markers the HS kids use for prom in stuff and right TOW real big on the rear window. Roughly once an hour during the day the tow company that the hotel contracted with would drive by and hook up any marked. At night we called them to get them.

On an aside half the time by the time the tow company would get there the car would be way gone!
Yea its a pain during spring break...most times when we have to tow we issue parking violations first...unless it is a serious violation...like no pass in window and parked in a fire lane...or no pass and parked in an owners space

[locknid]

I am probably a little late but I am responding to the very original post. Our company mostly does apt complexes. On the ones where there is covered parking which is assigned then usually the residents have authority to tow if someone else is in their spot as long as they have the piece of paper that says the spot is theirs which was given to them when they moved in. Besides that most properties do not give us authority to tow, and residents can not tow for anything else besides their own spot. We have only a few where security is authorized to tow but management does not want to be responsible for every car that is parked in the fire lane, handicap spot, etc. Too many residents they could piss off if cars are damaged. We just mark down illegally parked cars, abandoned vehicles, inoperable vehicles, cars with expired tags, etc in our reports and then if they are still there when management gets there in the morning they will tow if it seems fit for the situation. Only time we could possibly tow is if a vehicle was blocking an exit, other vehicles to exit their spot, etc.

[FireEMSPolice]

We have a stupid 72 hours rule at my mall, though there are several signs that state "NO OVERNIGHT PARKING". You get 3 notices. The 3rd will get you towed away unless you advise us in advance with a good reason why your vehicle is there. Acceptable reasons are

1) You were transported by EMS from your job
2) Its disabled
3) You are some punk shoplifter who got nailed at an anchor store and got arrested (I feel this should warrant an automatic tow).

[Chucky]

The dents in the hood sure look like hail stone damage. If that is the case then the towing company could claim that it would have happened even if it wasn't towed.

[3rd_shift]

The dents in the hood sure look like hail stone damage. If that is the case then the towing company could claim that it would have happened even if it wasn't towed.

True.

Update:
The friend I was staying overnight at the apartments with, has just finally reimbused me for the towing charges. $$$
He was supposed to tell me where to park, and had failed to. :p

The towing company shall remain on my "other list" anyways from now on. :eek:

What comes around goes around.