Baton Strikes

[Mr. Security]

I don't use my ASP for anything except killing spiders. :) I know that strikes to the head are normally a no-no. The other day I saw a video of a LPO using his ASP to defend himself against a gang of youths who attacked him after he and the store manager stopped the youths for shoplifting. I estimate his ASP at 26/28" and he was aiming for the head.

Normally, I would consider that excessive force. But in this situation, he was definitely out numbered 2 or 3 to 1. I thought that if I were in his shoes, I'd probably do the same thing since these gang members wanted to hurt him bad.

What is your position on this?

[N. A. Corbier]

ASP teaches that you should never hit above the shoulders, and should transition to firearm if you are in a deadly force encounter.

When you are outnumbered greatly, you can reasonably assume your life is in danger. This gives you a green light for lethal force, which includes baton strikes to the head to disable opponents.

The CASCO and Monadnock systems teach that you may strike in the head area to deliver lethal force. ASP does not want the liability associated with "deadly force" in their baton system, so they train to transition to firearm. No gun? They really don't have a plan for that, as all police officers have guns. :)

[Mr. Security]

Thanks Nathan. :) I was hoping that you would say that. I felt bad for that officer, and man did it happen FAST!! Scary.

[LPGuy]

When you are outnumbered greatly, you can reasonably assume your life is in danger. This gives you a green light for lethal force, which includes baton strikes to the head to disable opponents.

Exactly. I would have done the same exact thing in his situation, except I'm unfortunately not issued a baton of any sort...

[histfan71]

So long as the LP guy can articulate that his life was in danger, stikes to the head are perfectly acceptable. In this specific case, I would agree that the LP's life was threatened and that use of deadly force was justified.

[FDG06]

Histfan71..couldn't have said better myself!
Yoda

[SecureTN]

Is there a Video i can view anywhere?

[Mr. Security]

Is there a Video i can view anywhere?

It premiered on a TV program entitled: "Worlds Most Shocking Video."

I don't remember if it was on Court TV or Spike.

[Bill Warnock]

It premiered on a TV program entitled: "Worlds Most Shocking Video."

I don't remember if it was on Court TV or Spike.
Court TV had the series and I believe it premiered on a Thursday. CourtTV.com will furnish all the information.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Andy Taylor]

When I did LP work we were not allowed to carry any weapons. We had a badge and cuffs. One of the main reasons I stopped doing that sort of work.

[PubliusClodius]

Sounds normal to me, he's used to going for his ASP first in most violent situations such as one on one. So it happened so fast that his natural instincts took over and he went for his ASP first. I think he should be applauded under the circumstances. If they had brandished guns his first instinct would be to grab his gun.

[jeff194307]

My PR24 training was that there are green areas and red areas to indicate what areas of the body were not to be hit, however once a weapon was in the hands of the subject, the entire body became a green area.

[LPGuy]

My PR24 training was that there are green areas and red areas to indicate what areas of the body were not to be hit, however once a weapon was in the hands of the subject, the entire body became a green area.

What level of force the suspect displays will determine if you are legally able to strike primary targets, secondary targets, or tertiary targets.

Active resistance = Primary targets (arms, legs, etc.)

Assaultive resistance = Secondary targets (joints, body, etc.)

Deadly force = Tertiary targets (neck and head)

[james2go30]

It premiered on a TV program entitled: "Worlds Most Shocking Video."

I don't remember if it was on Court TV or Spike.
look for it at youtube they possibly have on there somewhere....what do they NOT have