Does your state regulate your badge?

[Mr. Security]

Are you required to wear a square badge where you work? If not, what kind do you wear?

[N. A. Corbier]

Are you required to wear a square badge where you work? If not, what kind do you wear?

As far as I can find out, only the States of New Jersey and New York require square badges.

Florida restricts the State Seal to Law Enforcement Officials only. They restrict 5-pointed stars to Sheriffs and their deputies (Other LE Agencies may not use them, either), along with a special version of the State Seal with a state outline superimposed over the seal.

My state dosen't regulate badges other than you may not have a badge or credential that gives the apperance of public authority. We may have Wisconsin State Seals on our badges, and our shoulder patches. So long as the person reading the badge dosen't confuse you with a public police officer, your fine.

Example: Kenosha Private Police have badges that say just that. "Officer," "Kenosha Private Police," "Wisconsin". They have a WI Great Seal on their badge. "Obviously," they are not public police as it says "Private Police" on the badge.

[Mr. Security]

As far as I can find out, only the States of New Jersey and New York require square badges.


I believe Conn. does as well.

[bumpo]

Yup. N A is right about the badges for N.Y.S. and F.L.

When I started working down here I almost freaked. I thought my company had a five point badge :eek: . I counted the points and found it was really six. My uniform looks like a bad rip off of the Alachua Co. Sheriffs uniform.

[bigdog]

our uniforms look like pinellas park, clearwater, tampa, and indian rocks police

[N. A. Corbier]

Actually, EDI's uniform looks like everybody else's: Los Angeles Police Deparment. If it wasn't for everyone up here wearing it, I'd of went with LAPD Navy as well. I selected "Nickel Grey" with black tie, the really dark silver, so that we're obviously not the local police agency.

Their armed officers wear Marine Corps NCO uniforms: Khaki shirts, blue pants.

[Charger]

Oregon's only stipulation is as N.A. mentioned, 'State Seal is for LEO's only'... other than that, anything's fair game...

Not positive, but I believe Washington is the same way...

Previous agencies I've worked for had a wide variety of badges... from a regular shield, to LAPD "oval" style, to 7-pt stars... even a US Marshalls style (5-pt star inside a ring).... as long as the State Seal wasn't on it, it was fine..

[bigdog]

not ne more we all wear navy blue now even armed

[N. A. Corbier]

not ne more we all wear navy blue now even armed

Damn it, I liked the other shirts better.

[1stWatch]

Each security company in Texas has to submit color photographs to the Department of Public Safety in Austin along with a registered company profile. Once the uniform is approved it is what the officers in the company are required to wear. The minimum requirement for the uniform is a name tag with a last name on it, a patch with the name of the company on the left shoulder, and the word "security" printed clearly somewhere on the uniform. There is no specific requirement for the color of the uniform or the style of badge. If armed, all weapons must be worn in plain view with the full uniform and a pocket card must be kept on the person.

[The_Mayor]

Are you required to wear a square badge where you work? If not, what kind do you wear?

LOL..no we wear regular badges here. I kept hearing the term "square badge"..I didn't even know what one was till I talked to an officer from the east coast. I'd imagine they look ridiculous. :p

btw welcome back Mr. Security. :)

[EMTGuard]

Our badges are just generic shields with SECURITY OFFICER on them that you can order out of any number of Law Enforcement catalogs (Galls, etc.) for about 9 bucks.
Louisiana law says that the badge only can't resemble the one used by Louisiana State Police. I remember when they passed it because I was working for Dept of Corrections and our badges were in the shape of the State similar to what LSP wore. We had to swap out our badges for Shield style badges with DOC markings. I had never seen it personally but I was told that some Correctional Officers had been flashing the older types of badges and misrepresenting themselves as Troopers. Also, some security companies and police agencies had badges in the same style and had problems with misrepresentation too. Now the only ones with the unique badges are Troopers and the poor Corrections Officers have to find another way to impress the girls at the bar. :)
Also, Louisiana says- " No badge or insignia with the initials "SP" or "SO"
may be worn on the uniform of a registrant." Guess that's to keep you from claiming to be State Police or a Sheriff's Officer.

Steve,
EMT/Security Officer

[N. A. Corbier]

LOL..no we wear regular badges here. I kept hearing the term "square badge"..I didn't even know what one was till I talked to an officer from the east coast. I'd imagine they look ridiculous. :p

btw welcome back Mr. Security. :)

Quartermaster Uniforms sells them, take a look. www.qmuniforms.com (http://www.qmuniforms.com)

[Mr. Security]

LOL..no we wear regular badges here. I kept hearing the term "square badge"..I didn't even know what one was till I talked to an officer from the east coast. I'd imagine they look ridiculous. :p

btw welcome back Mr. Security. :)

Thanks Mayor. :) And yes, they look stupid.

[Mr. Security]

Lately, I have been getting some pressure to wear a square badge. I can't stand the way they look...a big square hunk of ugly metal with minimal design. I'd rather not wear any badge than pin that embarrassing hunk of scrap metal on to my jacket. If I am forced to wear it, I'll start changing into my street clothes before leaving work.

I think this is just another step to take away whatever little dignity s/o's have left. :(

[N. A. Corbier]

Lately, I have been getting some pressure to wear a square badge. I can't stand the way they look...a big square hunk of ugly metal with minimal design. I'd rather not wear any badge than pin that embarrassing hunk of scrap metal on to my jacket. If I am forced to wear it, I'll start changing into my street clothes before leaving work.

I think this is just another step to take away whatever little dignity s/o's have left. :(

Where's this pressure coming from? Red Jacket International? The client? The local police?

[Mr. Security]

Where's this pressure coming from? Red Jacket International? The client? The local police?

A coworker who could make trouble for me with security management.

[N. A. Corbier]

A coworker who could make trouble for me with security management.

I would simply remove the badge, at that point, since its "unauthorized," if someone's going to make trouble for you. Keep it in your pocket, so that if its required, you can produce it with your company ID to identify yourself as an employee of the company.

[Echos13]

I have seen these square badges here from time to time but not often. Looks like a badge pressed into a plaque.

Now here is an ugly badge. This is (or was) JCP LP's badges, or at least what they used in the 80's. The number 1999 is just chance. That's the LP associates actual ID number.


http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL913/4314969/9161684/127725591.jpg

[N. A. Corbier]

That looks a sight better than the ones in the Smith and Warren catalog.

[Mr. Security]

I would simply remove the badge, at that point, since its "unauthorized," if someone's going to make trouble for you. Keep it in your pocket, so that if its required, you can produce it with your company ID to identify yourself as an employee of the company.

I like that idea. Thanks! :) Recently, you used the term "valet" to describe the uniforms for big WBC's in security. How true! Makes it so much easier to add in those value added services. "Can I get that door for you sir?" "Would you like me to get your car and bring it up to the door sir? No need for you to get all wet." :(

[Lawson]

In Washington, I think the only regulation on a badge is that it cannot say anything on it that relates to Law Enforcement, so it cannot say "Police" "Sheriff" "Law Enforcement" and I think they cannot say "Agent". They can say "Patrol Officer" However I believe.

Also, I am sure I have seen some security around here wear the state seal, so I dont think thats a violation of regulation... though, the officer wearing that badge I saw doesnt work for the greatest of companies, and I personally think he works too hard to look like a police officer... chalk up another one for the WWMP.

[Mr. Security]

I have seen these square badges here from time to time but not often. Looks like a badge pressed into a plaque.

Now here is an ugly badge. This is (or was) JCP LP's badges, or at least what they used in the 80's. The number 1999 is just chance. That's the LP associates actual ID number.


http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL913/4314969/9161684/127725591.jpg

Yeah, that's what I mean. It looks like a die that you set in the chase of an embossing machine! :p

[Mr. Security]

In Washington, I think the only regulation on a badge is that it cannot say anything on it that relates to Law Enforcement, so it cannot say "Police" "Sheriff" "Law Enforcement" and I think they cannot say "Agent". They can say "Patrol Officer" However I believe.

Also, I am sure I have seen some security around here wear the state seal, so I dont think thats a violation of regulation... though, the officer wearing that badge I saw doesnt work for the greatest of companies, and I personally think he works too hard to look like a police officer... chalk up another one for the WWMP.

Conservative New England. Regulations, regulations, and more regulations. There are still towns here that are "dry." No liquor stores allowed.

[Bill Warnock]

Let us not forget when parking the car and opening the door our eyes and minds should always be searching for fruits of criminality. The two LEOs in the midwest posed as doormen, security specialists, did a fantastic job. The hotel was pleased to the extent they wanted to direct hire them.
The two doorman brought down a drug ring kingpin, suppliers, runners and the buyers. Furthermore, they smashed a call girl ring, netting hotel go betweens and their customers.
Defendants sought to have evidence suppressed as the LEOs were moon-lighting as security personnel. As N.A. Corbier has pointed out on several occasions, sworn officers remain sworn officers wherever they are within the jurisdiction. In this case, it was a ruse, undercover vice officers under the cover of security specialists. Ladies and gentlemen, it works both ways.
The games of "what if" and "this looks odd, why?" are still in play.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Mr. Security]

Yes, Connecticut is out date and still mandates fugly square badges, it's the law as law makers don't know jack about the real world issues. Square badge's often bring laughter from suspects it degrades the profession.

If I remember the statute correctly, the law does not apply to badges manufactured before 2003 so as not to place an undue financial burden on any company. So don't retire/replace any of your decent looking badges if you can help it. :)

[hemi444]

My state has no rgulations on badges that I know of. I have one badge that has agent, state seal, and my cert number from my card that was issued by the state police. The only thing that I had to do was take it off when I went to jersey and made sure that I had the generic looking badge and the ID. I hope that I never have to work in that state again.

As for some of the issues that other states have, it does degrade the professional look and lowering an s/o self esteem as well. I feel bad for you guys.

[hemi444]

I like that idea. Thanks! :) "Can I get that door for you sir?" "Would you like me to get your car and bring it up to the door sir? No need for you to get all wet." :(

Customer service ends at 3:55pm for me.....Go get your own d@mn car.

[Mr. Security]

Yeah, "It's raining outside sir, SO I HOPE YOU BROUGHT YOUR UMBRELLA OR YOU?RE GONNA GET WET!" :D :p

[Tennsix]

I like that idea. Thanks! :) Recently, you used the term "valet" to describe the uniforms for big WBC's in security. How true! Makes it so much easier to add in those value added services. "Can I get that door for you sir?" "Would you like me to get your car and bring it up to the door sir? No need for you to get all wet." :(
don't forget a cup of coffee, sweet roll, and newspaper.

[Firemankoz]

Michigan tops them all boys!
we MUST wear RED half moon patches on our arms and a red and white strip above the left pocket that says SECURITY. Tha approved badge for Michigan is the boston fire badge. it says security on top guard on the bottom, and has a star in the center. a very small badge. Valor since it is a national company had to design a "Michigan Badge" since EVERY OTHER PLACE we wear the eagle/shield badge. The Michigan badge is a maltese cross/ starburst type ( like the NYPD dick shield with the bottom off.) with the words valor security service on it.

The Michigan State Police have ahard on for security companies! I guess to much abuse in the past!

Koz

[Mr. Security]

don't forget a cup of coffee, sweet roll, and newspaper.

It's ironic that you mentioned newspaper because we are required to get the papers ready for pick-up by the morning employees. Your paper sir....:D

[Mr. Security]

Michigan tops them all boys!
we MUST wear RED half moon patches on our arms and a red and white strip above the left pocket that says SECURITY. Tha approved badge for Michigan is the boston fire badge. it says security on top guard on the bottom, and has a star in the center. a very small badge. Valor since it is a national company had to design a "Michigan Badge" since EVERY OTHER PLACE we wear the eagle/shield badge. The Michigan badge is a maltese cross/ starburst type ( like the NYPD dick shield with the bottom off.) with the words valor security service on it.

The Michigan State Police have ahard on for security companies! I guess to much abuse in the past!

Koz

I'd love to see it. Can you post a picture?

[Firemankoz]

No you'll laugh to hard!
We also wear a white shirt, navy pants with a grey stripe, and the navy trooper hat. winter we wear the blue turtle neck under the long sleeve shirt..
( I hate ties) and summer short sleeves, allthough I am in short sleeves year round!..........tried to send pix but file is to large, give me your e-mail and I'll send them to ya
Koz

[1stWatch]

No you'll laugh to hard!
We also wear a white shirt, navy pants with a grey stripe, and the navy trooper hat. winter we wear the blue turtle neck under the long sleeve shirt..
( I hate ties) and summer short sleeves, allthough I am in short sleeves year round!..........tried to send pix but file is to large, give me your e-mail and I'll send them to ya
Koz

That sounds like it wouldn't look as bad if the shirt was navy like the pants instead of white.

[1stWatch]

If I remember the statute correctly, the law does not apply to badges manufactured before 2003 so as not to place an undue financial burden on any company. So don't retire/replace any of your decent looking badges if you can help it. :)

So this regulation to have a square patch for a badge is recent? omg :(

[Mr. Security]

So this regulation to have a square patch for a badge is recent? omg :(

That's a "roger." It can be made out of metal, but it must be square. That makes us look "square!" If you work "in-house" security, the law doesn't apply...YET. :(

[1stWatch]

That's a "roger." It can be made out of metal, but it must be square. That makes us look "square!" If you work "in-house" security, the law doesn't apply...YET. :(

Does the regulation extend to the uniform as well, as in you have to wear a blazer or a white or dookie brown shirt too?
It would be amusing to see a company there wearing a police style or military style uniform with a little rectangular badge over the left pocket with other fruit salad pins over the right pocket. :p

[Mr. Security]

Does the regulation extend to the uniform as well, as in you have to wear a blazer or a white or dookie brown shirt too?
It would be amusing to see a company there wearing a police style or military style uniform with a little rectangular badge over the left pocket with other fruit salad pins over the right pocket. :p

I'm not aware of any regulation that mandates the blazer look. There are guards in the area that wear the traditional uniform one thinks of when you mention security, along with the required goofy-looking square badge. They are usually stationed at production/industrial facilities. Just about all corporate sites opt for the blazer look. Thus the confusion with the valet, bellhop, etc., man.

[N. A. Corbier]

I wish to see this uniform. my username !at! cityscape solutions dot |net|.

:)

[Mr. Security]

No you'll laugh to hard!
We also wear a white shirt, navy pants with a grey stripe, and the navy trooper hat. winter we wear the blue turtle neck under the long sleeve shirt..
( I hate ties) and summer short sleeves, allthough I am in short sleeves year round!..........tried to send pix but file is to large, give me your e-mail and I'll send them to ya
Koz

E-mail sent.

[Kathootzie]

Lately, I have been getting some pressure to wear a square badge. I can't stand the way they look...a big square hunk of ugly metal with minimal design. I'd rather not wear any badge than pin that embarrassing hunk of scrap metal on to my jacket. If I am forced to wear it, I'll start changing into my street clothes before leaving work.

I think this is just another step to take away whatever little dignity s/o's have left. :(


I agree with you entirely. I worked hard studying and going to classes to complete security officer training, and took the state test (and passed), got bonded, got my background checks completed, etc. all because I was dedicated to becoming a successful, professional security officer. This is what I want to do, and I will always do my very best at it. I am very proud of it. I think all security officers should be proud of what they do. We are needed. We are there to protect employees, customers, and property. We do more than observe and report. We have a very honorable job. Bravo to us!

[Mr. Security]

I started in 1985 and it's always been fugly square badges for us and yes they loook stupid to say the least.

FYI: My posts are based on Connecticut Public Act #04-192, Section 34, effective 10/01/04. Many contract companies, Guardsmark, Securitas, Wachenhut, etc., used badges that were not square before this act.

A letter from the Department of Public Safety, Division of State Police, Special Licensing & Firearms Unit, issued by LT. James DeFelice, Commanding Officer, also states:

"To avoid undue expense or hardship on the security service companies, new or replacement badges purchased in the future must conform to the newly prescribed badge as required by Connecticut Public Act #04-192."

[1stWatch]

Maybe that state will also be kind enough to issue striped baseball caps with a propeller on top.

[Mr. Security]

Maybe that state will also be kind enough to issue striped baseball caps with a propeller on top.

Please - don't give them any ideas! :p

[N. A. Corbier]

Well the statute reads:

Sec. 34. (NEW) (Effective October 1, 2004) The licensee of a security service shall issue to each uniformed employee a metal or woven insignia of a design approved by the Commissioner of Public Safety, with an inscription thereon containing the word "security", the name of the licensee and an identification number. Such insignia shall be conspicuously worn at all times by the employee when in uniform and acting in the service of the licensee, and the commissioner may prescribe the manner of displaying such insignia. As used in this section, "uniform" means any manner or type of dress of a particular style and distinctive appearance as distinguished from clothing usually worn by the public.

I am going to have my lawyer get a thumbs up for a patch that meets the requirements as it states " Woven or Metal " if the patch get's approval then from the statute I would think that I could use any type of badge we want as long as it states " Security " on it - No?. I'll see what the lawyer thinks :O)

That sounds like any fabric logo or metal insignia, not just a badge. It must be approved by the Commissioner (Is this where square badges come in?) and must have some approved wording. Oh, and you have to display it at all times.

[Mr. Security]

04-192 did not take effect until this past October of 2004

Ah yeah, that's what I already said.


..it's always been the goofy looking badges as I'v been wearing them for 20 years while working for any contract service...

Not necessarily. I have worked for at least 2 contract companies in Conn. and that wasn't the case.

[Mr. Security]

As we know, several NE states have enacted laws that require contract s/o's to where heavy, ugly, square metal badges. Your state may be next. If you think that security doesn't get enough respect, wait until you are required to wear one of these. Don't let it happen in your state. Legislators like to sneak this stuff through, so keep on the watch or else you could end up looking like a bozo.

[N. A. Corbier]

As we know, several NE states have enacted laws that require contract s/o's to where heavy, ugly, square metal badges. Your state may be next. If you think that security doesn't get enough respect, wait until you are required to wear one of these. Don't let it happen in your state. Legislators like to sneak this stuff through, so keep on the watch or else you could end up looking like a bozo.

Those states also define police officers or special peace officers all over the place, I've found. Example: NY and NJ have special peace officers for all private colleges, etc. School districts also ahve specials.

[histfan71]

Several years ago (early 1990's) in California a state assemblyman introduced a bill that would require all uniformed security in the state to wear slate-grey shirts and pants. In addition security could not wear any type of metal badge, they would all have to be a sew-on cloth badge.

The bill was prompted by a spate of private security guards who wore uniforms, badges, and patches very similar to the local police. These guards were making traffic stops in their security cars, coincidently marked and equipped like a police car. If the occupants of the stopped cars were men they would be robbed and if women, raped.

If I remember correctly the bill died in committee, but came very close to being passed. I kind of think this is a good idea, since only one law enforcement agency in the state wears grey. The Alameda County Sheriff's Department wears slate-grey shirt's and navy-blue pants. I understand that the other surrounding departments give the Alameda boys and girls a hard time about "looking like security guards."

[Tennsix]

Indiana has a statute that protects the integrity of municipal and county police agencies. The law says no law enforcement or security agency may create/wear uniforms that closely resemble that of municiple and county police officers. The law says no law enforcement or security agencies may wear/create uniforms that closely resemble "regular" local officers. Many reserve, special, and auxillary units had to modify their uniforms.

[histfan71]

Here in SoCal at least, you cannot tell the difference between a reserve and a regular police officer/deputy sheriff just by looking for the most part. In the LAPD, the only difference in uniform and equipment between regulars and reserves is that the badge numbers of reserves begin with "R". For example a reserve's badge number would be something like "R12345". Many departments do not even have that difference, reserves look identical to regulars. And that is how I think it should be.

[N. A. Corbier]

Here in SoCal at least, you cannot tell the difference between a reserve and a regular police officer/deputy sheriff just by looking for the most part. In the LAPD, the only difference in uniform and equipment between regulars and reserves is that the badge numbers of reserves begin with "R". For example a reserve's badge number would be something like "R12345". Many departments do not even have that difference, reserves look identical to regulars. And that is how I think it should be.

In some states, reserve police officers are, in fact, not sworn police officers, and are more of a "volunteer in policing" position, much like a Community Service Officer.

Some sworn officers believe that the concept of reserve/auxiliary/special police take away from either their overtime potential, or their straight time potential, and view them as a threat to their livelyhood.

In other states, a reserve police officer is just that, a police officer who is kept in reserve for rapid deployment of manpower. They ride with regular officers, or ride alone (Reserve II deputies in Hillsbrough County, Florida, are a good example of riding alone - they are paid reserve deputy sheriffs with full powers.), and provide a doubling of force projection.

Up north, I've found that reserve police officers are generally there to "free up" sworn police officers from mundane or trivial tasks, such as accident reporting, etc, so that the sworn officers can focus on street level policing.

[Charger]

Many of the departments in OR have Reserve programs, and it sounds like they're a mix of the different things you mentioned... They ARE non-paid volunteers, BUT they go through a (slightly) lessened academy, and DO have full police authority while they're on duty.. But ONLY while on duty...
The majority of them have a limit to hours worked, but also mandate that they work at least a weekend each month, sometimes more/less depending on department... On top of that, they get used routinely for special events like county fairs, etc...
I haven't been here in WA long enough to know the specifics, but from what I've gathered from local Officers it's pretty much the same thing...

[histfan71]

In California it is a little more complicated. There are three levels of reserve officers:

Level I: Gets exactly the same basic academy training as a regular officer, must complete 400 hours with an FTO, can work solo, and do everything that a regular officer can do. Generally they only have peace officer powers while on duty and directly to and from their assignment. However, the chief of police or county sheriff can "designate" a Level I reserve to have 24/7 peace officer status. Most departments do not "designate" their reserves, but LAPD was one of the few that did.

Level II: Their academy is about 150 hours less then a full basic academy. While California POST does not require FTO training for Level II's most departments put them through the full 400 hour program. Level II's cannot work alone and must be in the immediate vicinity of a regular officer or a Level I reserve. Otherwise they can do most everything a regular officer can do, except work solo.

Level III: Their academy is only about 200 hours long; it varies by the training provider. Again, no FTO is required, and most departments DO NOT require FTO training for Level III's. They are only allowed to do support roles, so they cannot go on patrol or perform duties where arrests are likely. They do such things as work the front desk, the jail, transport prisoners, parade and special event security, etc. Like Level II's, they cannot work alone unless transporting prisoners, and must be under the immediate supervision of a regular officer or Level I reserve when doing anything else.

As far as pay goes most reserves are volunteers, some departments do pay, but will put a limit on the number of hours you can work. One small department here (the city is just over 1 square mile and has a population of about 100 people) pays their reserves the same rate as regular officers but they limit you to no more than 1000 hours per year.

Most regular officers like and respect reserves, since unlike most other states, Level I reserves have to meet exactly the same hiring and training standards as regular officers. Also many departments, especially the smaller ones, hire extensively from their reserves, so many regular officers started their careers as reserves. Sure, there are a few hardcases who think that reserves are not "real" cops and that reserves are out to steal their jobs, but thankfully those are in the minority. In my 10 years as an LAPD reserve I got nothing but praise and thanks from the regular officers.

[Mr. Security]

Several years ago (early 1990's) in California a state assemblyman introduced a bill that would require all uniformed security in the state to wear slate-grey shirts and pants. In addition security could not wear any type of metal badge, they would all have to be a sew-on cloth badge.

The bill was prompted by a spate of private security guards who wore uniforms, badges, and patches very similar to the local police. These guards were making traffic stops in their security cars, coincidently marked and equipped like a police car. If the occupants of the stopped cars were men they would be robbed and if women, raped.

If I remember correctly the bill died in committee, but came very close to being passed. I kind of think this is a good idea, since only one law enforcement agency in the state wears grey.....

I have no issues with embroidered badges that are sown on, and gray is fine with me as well. It is not difficult to manufacture metal badges that clearly distinguish security from LE w/o requiring it to be square. For example, crossing guards have badges that are not square, and so does the AAA School Patrol program.

Unfortunately, it only takes a couple numbskulls in security pretending to be LE coupled with some paranoia from a state representative to ruin it for the rest of us. :(

[ozsecuritychic]

No you'll laugh to hard!
We also wear a white shirt, navy pants with a grey stripe, and the navy trooper hat. winter we wear the blue turtle neck under the long sleeve shirt..
( I hate ties) and summer short sleeves, allthough I am in short sleeves year round!..........tried to send pix but file is to large, give me your e-mail and I'll send them to ya
Koz

i have to wear a tie(clip on) we dont wear badges.we have to have our licence displayed i wear mine on my duty belt.my uniform is white shirts with company name in blue,black slides (cant remember what they are called)with company name in blue,black tie,black pants.

[Tennsix]

In Indiana, reserves must be volunteers. The unit may be paid but the individual officer may not. The moment the officer receives pay, he is considered a professional police officer and must complete the police academy within one year. However, only regular officer may attend the academy. The only reserves with academy training are those that were once regulars.

A big reason my previous PD disbanned the reserve unit was because they worked for free. If shift was short, a reserve would be called in. In turn, that cost a regular officer eights hours of O.T.

[1stWatch]

Several years ago (early 1990's) in California a state assemblyman introduced a bill that would require all uniformed security in the state to wear slate-grey shirts and pants. In addition security could not wear any type of metal badge, they would all have to be a sew-on cloth badge.

The bill was prompted by a spate of private security guards who wore uniforms, badges, and patches very similar to the local police. These guards were making traffic stops in their security cars, coincidently marked and equipped like a police car. If the occupants of the stopped cars were men they would be robbed and if women, raped.

If I remember correctly the bill died in committee, but came very close to being passed. I kind of think this is a good idea, since only one law enforcement agency in the state wears grey. The Alameda County Sheriff's Department wears slate-grey shirt's and navy-blue pants. I understand that the other surrounding departments give the Alameda boys and girls a hard time about "looking like security guards."

I shudder when thinking about that. Grey is just ugly to me.

[1stWatch]

Indiana has a statute that protects the integrity of municipal and county police agencies. The law says no law enforcement or security agency may create/wear uniforms that closely resemble that of municiple and county police officers. The law says no law enforcement or security agencies may wear/create uniforms that closely resemble "regular" local officers. Many reserve, special, and auxillary units had to modify their uniforms.

I heard they tried passing something like that here as well in 2003, but there was talk about statewide ugly looking goober uniforms. We would have been mandated to wear yellow or red polo shirts with khaki pants and the uniforms I have been so proud to wear would have been outlawed. The following colors would have been prohibited: navy blue, light blue, black, brown, tan. I heard they were discussing banning things like leather gear and making regulations for security vehicles that would have banned any and all flashing lights and blue striping. I am happy this was either just a vicious rumor or it died in committee.

[1stWatch]

Here in SoCal at least, you cannot tell the difference between a reserve and a regular police officer/deputy sheriff just by looking for the most part. In the LAPD, the only difference in uniform and equipment between regulars and reserves is that the badge numbers of reserves begin with "R". For example a reserve's badge number would be something like "R12345". Many departments do not even have that difference, reserves look identical to regulars. And that is how I think it should be.

That is how it should be. They go through the same training. They go through the same ordeals on the field. In fact, they are more admirable to me because they do it for free, albeit on a part time basis. Why should they have to endure some sort of indignity such as a different uniform from the full time paid officers who are supposed to be their peers?

[1stWatch]

Unfortunately, it only takes a couple numbskulls in security pretending to be LE coupled with some paranoia from a state representative to ruin it for the rest of us. :(

I think it has more to do with a prominence of social prejudice.

[Tennsix]

Here in SoCal at least, you cannot tell the difference between a reserve and a regular police officer/deputy sheriff just by looking for the most part. In the LAPD, the only difference in uniform and equipment between regulars and reserves is that the badge numbers of reserves begin with "R". For example a reserve's badge number would be something like "R12345". Many departments do not even have that difference, reserves look identical to regulars. And that is how I think it should be.
The Indiana statute did not stipulate a uniform, it just said the uniform could not be the same as regulars. A lot of places made subtle changes such as a black tripe on navy blue trousers, different collar brass, different wording on a badge, etc. In those cases, the public does not see the difference.

[Mr. Security]

I think it has more to do with a prominence of social prejudice.

.......How so?

[histfan71]

I also do not mind grey uniforms. They still look sharp and authoritive and in California anyway no chance of you being mistaken for a cop.

However, I think grey is a bad idea for law enforcement. I know it is popular in some southern states, Virginia comes to mind, but when I see grey I always think security.

Several years ago Garden Grove PD in Orange County wore light blue shirts and dark blue pants. A local contract security company wore dark blue and the contract guards were constantly mistaken for cops by the public. They finally went to all dark blue in 1991. Around the same time the last few police departments that were still wearing tan uniforms, such as Anaheim PD, went to dark blue.

[N. A. Corbier]

The idea of "embroidered" for security, and "metal" for police is silly to me. Many police departments put embroidered patches on their polo shirts, inclement weather gear, and utliity uniforms. Would this law also prohibit police departments from wearing embroidered badges?

The "You must wear a polo shirt of X color and Dress Pants of X color and style," regulations are hilarious. Mainly because they do not bind in-house security. All this would do is make companies that want uniformed security go in-house.

Very few laws govern proprietary security departments, and those that do have to demonstrate that the law protects the greater good. Otherwise, you will find a lawsuit based on "undue hardship."

[Tennsix]

The idea of "embroidered" for security, and "metal" for police is silly to me. Many police departments put embroidered patches on their polo shirts, inclement weather gear, and utliity uniforms. Would this law also prohibit police departments from wearing embroidered badges?

The "You must wear a polo shirt of X color and Dress Pants of X color and style," regulations are hilarious. Mainly because they do not bind in-house security. All this would do is make companies that want uniformed security go in-house.

Very few laws govern proprietary security departments, and those that do have to demonstrate that the law protects the greater good. Otherwise, you will find a lawsuit based on "undue hardship."
My PD uses emroidered badges on jackets/coats, bad weather gear, and polo shirts.

[1stWatch]

.......How so?

The idea of creating a popularly accepted belief about people in general who do a certain job, ie. ours, and then creating and enforcing policies and laws based on that misinformation. The concept of creating subjective regulations, to me, stems from stereotypes, not facts or general consensus.

[N. A. Corbier]

The idea of creating a popularly accepted belief about people in general who do a certain job, ie. ours, and then creating and enforcing policies and laws based on that misinformation. The concept of creating subjective regulations, to me, stems from stereotypes, not facts or general consensus.

He's right.

Look at Florida Statute 493. It specifically has stop-gap legislation in it to severely limit contract security's ability to use force, yet no other type of citizen in the State is so limited.

Specifically, it is a criminal offense as well as a violation of Florida Administrative Code to use or offer to use force to protect property. This is in direct contradiction to FSS 776, which authorizes non-lethal force be applied to terminate tortious or criminal interference with property.

Basically, an in-house guard can throw someone out, but a contract guard may lose his license for using "force" or "violence" to compel someone to leave.

[Mr. Security]

The idea of creating a popularly accepted belief about people in general who do a certain job, ie. ours, and then creating and enforcing policies and laws based on that misinformation. The concept of creating subjective regulations, to me, stems from stereotypes, not facts or general consensus.

I see what you meant now. Stereotyping is tough to change. We might use the following formula to illustrate the foregoing: Cops + doughnuts = Security + sleeping on the job. :(

[bigdog]

[QUOTE=N. A. Corbier]He's right.

Look at Florida Statute 493. It specifically has stop-gap legislation in it to severely limit contract security's ability to use force, yet no other type of citizen in the State is so limited.

Specifically, it is a criminal offense as well as a violation of Florida Administrative Code to use or offer to use force to protect property. This is in direct contradiction to FSS 776, which authorizes non-lethal force be applied to terminate tortious or criminal interference with property.

Basically, an in-house guard can throw someone out, but a contract guard may lose his license for using "force" or "violence" to compel someone to leave.[/QU

ive used force to eject a trespasser. ive broken that law a few times never been arrested or fined.

[Mr. Security]

ive used force to eject a trespasser. ive broken that law a few times never been arrested or fined.

Why would you knowingly break the law? I don't understand that mentality. :confused:

[N. A. Corbier]

Why would you knowingly break the law? I don't understand that mentality. :confused:

He didn't know he was breaking it.

Florida D schools teach, as well as the state "Security Officer Handbook," that you can use force to protect property or terminate interference.

This is why, in something I wrote, there could be HUGE reprocussions if someone tried to get a conviction on that law. The companies would be liable for authorizing it, the security schools would be liable for teaching you can do it, and the Division of Licensing would be liable for promgulating that you "can" do it in their Handbook.

[Mr. Security]

He didn't know he was breaking it.

Florida D schools teach, as well as the state "Security Officer Handbook," that you can use force to protect property or terminate interference.

This is why, in something I wrote, there could be HUGE reprocussions if someone tried to get a conviction on that law. The companies would be liable for authorizing it, the security schools would be liable for teaching you can do it, and the Division of Licensing would be liable for promgulating that you "can" do it in their Handbook.

No wonder you moved. :D

[N. A. Corbier]

No wonder you moved. :D

Naw, I moved for the girlfriend. :) Until I moved up here, I had no idea that I was breaking the law daily, either.

[1stWatch]

We have some contradictory laws too. One security regulation allows for uniformed motorcycle escorts for funerals and parades. A couple of years ago, however, a group of them was arrested because they were using their vehicles to "impede with traffic, block a roadway, and direct traffic" which was described in the transportation code as something only a police officer could do. They were charged with impersonation of police. I don't know what the end result of that case was.

[Lawson]

We have some contradictory laws too. One security regulation allows for uniformed motorcycle escorts for funerals and parades. A couple of years ago, however, a group of them was arrested because they were using their vehicles to "impede with traffic, block a roadway, and direct traffic" which was described in the transportation code as something only a police officer could do. They were charged with impersonation of police. I don't know what the end result of that case was.

I think I heard about that... maybe it was a different case though. The motorcycles would give a red and blue light escort to the funeral motorcade. However they all got into a lot of heat for "police impersonation".

[N. A. Corbier]

Sounds like another Florida contradiction. The D schools are required to teach traffic direction. Not trafic theory, just direction - whistle, hand signs, etc.

Only a sworn law enforcement officer may direct traffic on a public street. Anyone else doing it is impeding the flow of traffic.

[1stWatch]

I think I heard about that... maybe it was a different case though. The motorcycles would give a red and blue light escort to the funeral motorcade. However they all got into a lot of heat for "police impersonation".

Actually they didn't have red and blue lights, but they did have illegal sirens which were not on at the time. The suburban police where they were pulled them over while the procession was going to the gravesite and arrested them for impersonation of police. The courts did not prosecute them.

That particular company did have quite a few unrelated incidents where I think they should have been charged with impersonation though - racing down the freeway at 150 mph on those motorcycles with the little yellow lights and illegal sirens blazing, then suddenly slowing down to 30 mph, turning donuts and crazy 8's in the middle of the highway in rush hour traffic, using aggressive hand signals to halt traffic. That was the one I saw and it pissed me off royally.

There was another time back in 2002 where one of their people was listening to a scanner, heard about an armed robbery in progress, and decided to go over there. He ended up chasing the suspect on his motorcycle. The suspect shot him off his motorcycle and killed him. What a dumb ass. They've also put some people to work who were not properly licensed, convicted felons etc.

[Lawson]

Hmm, must be a seperate incident from the one I heard of. The one I read was there was a funeral procession and even though they were not speeding, pulling people over, etc... the motorcycles operated red and blue lights. Apparently they had been doing this for years with no problems, then just out of the blue (and red in their case) the drivers were brought up on impersonation charges.

[histfan71]

There is a section in the California Vehicle Code that allow "funeral escorts" to halt traffic on public roads for a funeral procession. However, they are not allowed to have red and/or blue lights (only yellow) nor sirens. Also, they cannot wear a uniform similiar to the CHP nor carry any firearms.

If a motorist does go through the procession the escorts must call the police, they can not take any type of enforcement action.

[EMTGuard]

We have some contradictory laws too. One security regulation allows for uniformed motorcycle escorts for funerals and parades. A couple of years ago, however, a group of them was arrested because they were using their vehicles to "impede with traffic, block a roadway, and direct traffic" which was described in the transportation code as something only a police officer could do. They were charged with impersonation of police. I don't know what the end result of that case was.
Which is why, around here, the funeral homes will contact the local Police and arrange to have a couple of police officers detailed to perform escort duties.

[HotelSecurity]

I have a friend who works for a funerial home. Last week a retired cop died. He did not get a civic funerial but the family wanted a police escort for the possession. The Montreal Police provided 2 cars @ $300.00 each :eek:

[Mr. Security]

I have a friend who works for a funerial home. Last week a retired cop died. He did not get a civic funerial but the family wanted a police escort for the possession. The Montreal Police provided 2 cars @ $300.00 each :eek:

I hope the deceased was not a retiree of the Montreal Police. If so, that's a shame. :(

[Tennsix]

I hope the deceased was not a retiree of the Montreal Police. If so, that's a shame. :(
That is a disgrace, no matter from where that officer retired!

[LavianoTS386]

From talking with the assistant s/s at my site, in New York it's legal for security to wear square or oval badges.

[N. A. Corbier]

From talking with the assistant s/s at my site, in New York it's legal for security to wear square or oval badges.

They can wear oval in NY now?

[Mr. Security]

That is a disgrace, no matter from where that officer retired!

You're right. :(

[Mr. Security]

Your supervisor is incorrect, only square badges are permitted.

EMTFirefighter is correct for badges used by contract security. I can't say if the same is true with in-house security.

[ycaso77]

In Connecticut contract security personnel are required to wear the Square Badge. In house or proprietary security may wear any style badge. One strange thing is the state security officers who work alongside the University police at several state schools now have the square badge. Uniforms are also left up to the discretion of the department, the only real rules prohibit a uniform that resembles the State Police. The department I retired from had uniform and badge that mirrored the state police uniform as the chief was an ex-state trooper........no complaints from the state strangely enough.

[Mr. Security]

In Connecticut contract security personnel are required to wear the Square Badge. In house or proprietary security may wear any style badge.....

You are right. However, if you are wearing a badge assigned to you before the law was enacted (2003), the security company is not required to replace your badge due to the additional expense that such action incurs.

[ycaso77]

You are right. However, if you are wearing a badge assigned to you before the law was enacted (2003), the security company is not required to replace your badge due to the additional expense that such action incurs.


I wonder if theres any contract company that still uses a badge other than the square one in Ct? Thanks for the info also.

[Mr. Security]

I wonder if theres any contract company that still uses a badge other than the square one in Ct? Thanks for the info also.

I've seen at least one. It's getting rarer though with such a high turnover.

[ycaso77]

I've seen at least one. It's getting rarer though with such a high turnover.

Ok I think get it now! The individual employee may keep the older style badge he was issued and new employees have to use the square badge?

[Mr. Security]

Ok I think get it now! The individual employee may keep the older style badge he was issued and new employees have to use the square badge?

That's my understanding of it. It's also the way I've seen other companies do it as well.

[ycaso77]

Thanks, I'll have to pay closer attention when I'm out and about and see if I can find one. Now that I think about it I remember the hospital police next door lost thier police powers and we started seeing them with square badges. However there were a few with the old style badge and we had quite a few in house discussions over who saw what. I believe that they're back to standard police style badges now.

[Mr. Security]

Keep in mind to that Connecticut's special licensing enforcement resources are quite sparse. They have bigger fish to fry such as: Are the required background checks being done? Are guards properly licensed and in possession of their 'guard card' when on duty?

[ycaso77]

Keep in mind to that Connecticut's special licensing enforcement resources are quite sparse. They have bigger fish to fry such as: Are the required background checks being done? Are guards properly licensed and in possession of their 'guard card' when on duty?

Quite true, 4 people in the office to oversee everything last time I was there. As an aside, the university I work at simply decided to not play with the state in regards to the "guard card". They decided the officers didn't need it due to in house training and being a private university with more money than the mint who own 70 percent of the city. The state said zilch. Whos says money doesn't talk?

[N. A. Corbier]

Quite true, 4 people in the office to oversee everything last time I was there. As an aside, the university I work at simply decided to not play with the state in regards to the "guard card". They decided the officers didn't need it due to in house training and being a private university with more money than the mint who own 70 percent of the city. The state said zilch. Whos says money doesn't talk?

Does "in-house" security require a guard card? In most states, the state won't even try to regulate in-house security unless they carry firearms, because its just another job.

[Mr. Security]

Does "in-house" security require a guard card? In most states, the state won't even try to regulate in-house security unless they carry firearms, because its just another job.

No, not in Conn.

[Mr. Security]

Insane. You realize what that means, right? No background checks, no fingerprints... yikes! This is one of the few times I'm glad I live in NY.

You're right. The only good part is the state doesn't mandate those ugly square badges that they force on contract security. It's only a matter of time before they regulate in-house to. I'm all for background checks, but LEAVE the badges alone. :(

[N. A. Corbier]

Insane. You realize what that means, right? No background checks, no fingerprints... yikes! This is one of the few times I'm glad I live in NY.

Most states won't regulate in-house security, only the contract security folks. You have to have a security card when working for a company in an employee-employer relationship in NY?

[talon]

ycaso77,

Can any Private entity apply for Police Powers in your State? If so what are the details?

Thanks,

[Mr. Security]

ycaso77,

Can any Private entity apply for Police Powers in your State? If so what are the details?

Thanks,

Do you mean a university and/or college?

[talon]

I mean any Privete entity, be it a hospital, or college or corporation.

[Mr. Security]

I'll have to research this one. :confused: We have certified police officers at state colleges, but I don't think that is strictly a private entity. All hospitals in my area (3) just have security. I'll get back to you unless someone else beats me to it.

[Tennsix]

I'll have to research this one. :confused: We have certified police officers at state colleges, but I don't think that is strictly a private entity. All hospitals in my area (3) just have security. I'll get back to you unless someone else beats me to it.
I can only speak for my area. State colleges/universities are a political sub section of the state gov't. The bigger schools are "towns" in their own right. Employees of such insitutions are state gov't employees.

[Mr. Security]

This is the only section I could find regarding private police. As you can see, their power is restricted.


Sec. 29-20. Special policemen for armored cars. The Commissioner of Public Safety may, upon the application of any person, firm or corporation operating an armored car service within this state, commission during his pleasure one or more suitable persons, designated by such armored car operator, who regularly transport securities across state lines and who, having been sworn, may act at the expense of such armored car operator as policemen upon the premises used or occupied by such armored car operator in its business or in or upon armored car vehicles or upon any highway adjacent to such premises for the proper protection of such property and such armored car vehicles and their contents.

[Mr. Security]

I can only speak for my area. State colleges/universities are a political sub section of the state gov't. The bigger schools are "towns" in their own right. Employees of such insitutions are state gov't employees.

I believe it's that way in Conn. as well.

[talon]

Conneticut seems to have some broad Special Police laws, this is just one of many I found...



Special Policemen for Utility and Transportation Companies


Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-19 (1993) provides, in pertinent part, as follows:


(a) The commissioner of public safety may, upon the application of any electric, gas telephone, telegraph or water company owning, leasing, maintaining, managing or controlling any property, plant or equipment in this state, commission, during his pleasure, one or more persons designated by such company who, having been sworn, may act at the expense of such company as policemen upon the premises used or occupied by such company in its business, or upon any highway adjacent to such premises, for the proper protection of such plant or property, and each policeman so appointed may arrest and take before some proper authority any person in his precinct for any offense committed therein . . . .


(b) Said commissioner may, upon application of any railroad, express company or steamboat company, engaged in the business of transportation in this state, or upon the application of any corporation owning or having control of the roads in any private residence park, commission, during his pleasure, one or more persons designated by such company or by such corporation, who, having been sworn, may act, at the expense of such company or corporation, as policemen upon the premises used by such company in its business, or upon its cars or vessels, or upon the roads and land owned by or under control of such corporation, and each policeman so appointed may arrest and take before some proper authority any person in his precinct for any offense committed therein . . . . Each such policeman shall, when on duty, wear in plain view a shield bearing the words "railroad police", "steamboat police", "express company police" or "special police", as the case may be, and the name of the company for which he is commissioned.


As special policemen for utility and transportation companies are all empowered to perform police functions, personnel appointed under § 29-19 are subject to the authority of the MPTC.

[ycaso77]

The only essentially "private" police left in CT are the Yale University police, and they recieve thier police powers and badges through the city of New Haven. There are two water authority police forces in CT that I'm aware of, Regional Water authority and Metropolitan District Commision. But both are in that grey area of being "almost" state agencies and get thier police powers through the special police act. Thier are a couple lake authorities with special police but again either classed as constables or special police getting thier police power through a special pact with the state and limited in scope.
There used to be several "private police" forces ( Connecticut Bank and Trust, Winchester and Remington Police, some Insurance company police and private hospital police to name a few) but all have either reverted to security status or disappeared. Everything now is based on the statute Talon and Mr. Security quoted and if MPTC recognizes you as an organized police force. Most towns have also done away with supernumery and auxiliary forces as they are required to be trained to the same level as a regular officer so no savings there.
Most private colleges and university forces in CT. (with the exception of Yale)are either non-sworn campus safety or security departments.

[HotelSecurity]

Does anyone else get the "is that a REAL badge?" I get it all the time from drunks. I swear one day & going to remove it & stab then with the pin & ask them if the pain was real or not!!

[ycaso77]

Does anyone else get the "is that a REAL badge?" I get it all the time from drunks. I swear one day & going to remove it & stab then with the pin & ask them if the pain was real or not!!

Around here the favorite term of endearment from the local youths is "rent a cop", usually yelled when safely past and running. Last time I checked though no one outruns Motorola.

[N. A. Corbier]

Around here the favorite term of endearment from the local youths is "rent a cop", usually yelled when safely past and running. Last time I checked though no one outruns Motorola.

There are three things you cannot outrun in life, unless your Neo:
Motorola, Bullets, Computers.

[bigdog]

...and what do you plan to do when you catch up with someone who called you a "rent-a-cop?" Give them a stern talking-to? They did nothing illegal.

You can kick them off your property (unless they live there of course) because as an agent of the property owner you have the authority to remove undesirables from your property.

If they refuse to leave they are trespassing. In ycaso77's case then he can arrest them.

[N. A. Corbier]

Of course you can kick them out, that's not what I'm talking about. What law did they break by calling you a rent-a-cop?

Usually, none. Just like you can call a cop a pig and get away with it.

[Mr. Security]

Does anyone else get the "is that a REAL badge?" I get it all the time from drunks. I swear one day & going to remove it & stab then with the pin & ask them if the pain was real or not!!

Just tell them the handcuffs aren't real either when you cuff 'em. :D

[Mr. Security]

Usually, none. Just like you can call a cop a pig and get away with it.

Maybe, maybe not if you know what I mean. :eek:

[N. A. Corbier]

No, we don't know what you mean.
I know what he means, actually. :)

As you said, in some jurisdictions, you can make a disorderly conduct charge stick. It won't be picked up, but hell, you've gotten the satisfaction of throwing them in jail for the night.

Tampa Police used to do that, in Ybor City, a large trendy drinking spot. If someone was disorderly on my hotel's property, and threatened violence, they were arrestable under a specific statute - no citizen's arrest required.

For a police officer, on the other hand, walking away mumbling "f-ing pig" was enough to be arrested for disorderly conduct, and violation of the morality ordinance "Swearing in public." The guys who did this, by the way, were also fond of drawing their ASP, taking a swing in the air, and yelling, "GET OFF MY ****ING STREET." After 3 AM.

[Mr. Security]

I did a ride-along with a state trooper a few years ago, and he pulled over a vehicle loaded with kids that had attitude. In addition to writing citations for every vehicle violation he could find, he issued a mandatory vehicle inspection at a state inspection facility that was known for checking every inch of a vehicle for violations. Lesson: Say yes sir, no sir, and stow the attitude. :)

[Mr. Security]

...Swearing in public isn't a chargable offense. Those cops need to go back to Con Law class.

It is here.

[Mr. Security]

It most certainly is not. Last I checked, the Bill of Rights superceded any local or state laws.

And you have case law to support your statement, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

[N. A. Corbier]

It is here.

It is here, as well, as a city ordinance. They have an ordinance that states any activity, noise, or lack of which is "injurous, annoying, or generally causes a disturbance on any property within the City of Kenosha."

So far, nobody's fought it. Awhile back, the Kenosha Police Department shut a band down on private property for saying, "**** the police." They shut them down by bringing out 12 gauge shotguns, deploying ASPs, and making a riot line. Anyone who fell was arrested, issued a citation, then taken to jail because they were minors for their parents to pick up.

[N. A. Corbier]

Thrown in jail for a Dis Con charge? That's a good one! Here they get an appearance ticket and walk away.


Swearing in public isn't a chargable offense. Those cops need to go back to Con Law class.

Florida allows a police officer to either cite, charge and book, or charge and ROR under their state arrest law. Basically, any offense that they can ticket you for, they can present you to a magistrate in person for.

[Mr. Security]

Unfortunately, all I have to support my claim is a little document that was written a few years ago. Perhaps you've heard of it, it's called the BILL OF RIGHTS.

As usual, you are misapplying the law. You DO NOT have the freedom to yell fire in a crowded theater or joke about hijacking on an airplane. The same is true when it comes to laws about swearing. Someday an attorney is going to get you on the witness stand and make a buffoon out of you.

[Tennsix]

It is here, as well, as a city ordinance. They have an ordinance that states any activity, noise, or lack of which is "injurous, annoying, or generally causes a disturbance on any property within the City of Kenosha."

So far, nobody's fought it. Awhile back, the Kenosha Police Department shut a band down on private property for saying, "**** the police." They shut them down by bringing out 12 gauge shotguns, deploying ASPs, and making a riot line. Anyone who fell was arrested, issued a citation, then taken to jail because they were minors for their parents to pick up.
Our state harassment and disorderly conduct statutes MIGHT be applicable but that would be subject to prosecutorial discretion. In reality, it would never fly.

Neither the university nor the town has an ordinance that addresses the issue. However, if the person is affiliated (student, faculty, staff, other) with the university we can utilize our status as university officials and write up on a ethics violation.

[Tennsix]

Florida allows a police officer to either cite, charge and book, or charge and ROR under their state arrest law. Basically, any offense that they can ticket you for, they can present you to a magistrate in person for.
Same here. We may cite or arrest for about any misdemeanor-it is up the the officer. Domestic and family violence are couple of exceptions. In those cases, the suspect goes to jail.

[N. A. Corbier]

Our state harassment and disorderly conduct statutes MIGHT be applicable but that would be subject to prosecutorial discretion. In reality, it would never fly.

Neither the university nor the town has an ordinance that addresses the issue. However, if the person is affiliated (student, faculty, staff, other) with the university we can utilize our status as university officials and write up on a ethics violation.

The funny part is that we can arrest, in Wisconsin, on disorderly conduct ordinances as they're considered a "breach of the peace." I see no reason to ever make such an arrest, either on the clock or off the clock, but its possible for a private citizen to do so.

[Mr. Security]

It certaintly isn't. I personally know officers who wrote Dis Con tickets for people swearing and not a single one held up..

Well, I guess that proves it. :rolleyes:



Hardly. I'm the only officer in my department with a 100% conviction rate. Unlike you, I actually go to court and secure these convictions based on my work.

If you defend your actions the same way you do on this forum, the defense would constantly be objecting: "Assumes facts not in evidence." :)

[Tennsix]

100%? Damn... I've been a cop for 19 years. I lost that distinction 18 years ago! :D

[HotelSecurity]

EMTFirefighter

You must be costing your client a lot of money! I want my guys to prevent things. I don't want them to make arrests & have to go to court all the time. I have to pay them & pay someone else to cover their shift. We go to court once every 5 years for the 3 hotels. What type of security do you do again?

[Mr. Security]

I guess you missed the part about 100% conviction. My girlfriend is a 3rd year law student, she's sitting right next to me and agrees that I am exactly right.

No, I didn't. If your cases are so strong, then why do they end up in court instead of the defendant taking a plea deal?

[Mr. Security]

It certaintly isn't. I personally know officers who wrote Dis Con tickets for people swearing and not a single one held up.

Hardly. I'm the only officer in my department with a 100% conviction rate. Unlike you, I actually go to court and secure these convictions based on my work.

You linked your convictions to the courtroom in the post above.

[Mr. Security]

Yes, when I'm called to court I go and testify. When I'm not called to court, my paperwork does the talking for me.

Yes, I can see that's what you meant, now that you clarified it.

[HotelSecurity]

I'm sorry I thought the site was Security Info Watch Forums not Peace Officer Info Watch :p :p :D

[Mr. Security]

..... I was apparently mistaken..

Not the first time, nor the last.




. Don't worry, it won't happen again.

See that it doesn't.

[ycaso77]

...and what do you plan to do when you catch up with someone who called you a "rent-a-cop?" Give them a stern talking-to? They did nothing illegal.

Mmmmmmmm, thanks for the quickie course on constitutional law. Obviously an attempt at humor that missed.

[ycaso77]

Where did I say that every arrest ends up in court? A plea bargain is still a conviction.

You're a security guard. I used to be one too, some would say I still am. The point is you're out of your league here, stop speaking to which you have no idea.

I would suggest your peace officer status gives you limited powers only while on duty. In effect a super security officer allowed to perform limited law enforcement duties on the property of your employer. Your youth and inexperience are shown to your disadvantage when you take the "better than you" tone in an argument. Many people on this board are ex-law enforcement who retired to a second career. My first car was a Dodge Polaris and I carried a top of the line model 15 Spit and Wet-on with dump pouches. I've learned there are all different type of "leagues", and have the good sense to respect each one. Something that comes with age and experience.

[talon]

It seems that alot of times we get lost on the little things...things that really don't matter much...but we all want to be right, myself included.

Are you a peace officer, a Deputy, a Police Officer, a Security Guard, Special Police, lone ranger, you name it. We tend to lose sight of how we are all similar and instead concentrate on our ever so slight differences.

Does anyone think that maybe it's time to call a truce? I mean, we are all in a war now like it or not. Be it a local drug gang or a terrorist cell does it matter if a local Security Officer gets the credit or the FBI...of course I know that the answer is YES...The LEO agencies always want credit even if its not due but but never take responsabilty when it goes south (9/11) but I digress...

Tensix works at a College, is an arrest at a College any less than an arrest by a Deputy in a cow pasture or Mr. Security at a Motel? You have stopped a crime or dangerous situation or brought a criminal to justice in all cases...Ok so what...

No one part of the system holds a monopoly on importance. We are all of equal importance...

If a Security Professional stops an assault should the victim thank the ATF anymore than If my house burns down and I call a local Security Company to investigate.

We all have nitches that we fill and we are all a part of the puzzle.

[Charger]

Amen to that! :D

[ycaso77]

I would suggest there's an echo in here, since I've already said this.

Thats fine, I wasn't concerned with the fact as to whether or not you had already stated this. Theres two sides to every conversation and you seem to only be able to hear yours. If you progress to a larger department where its more than a 60 second response to any call, just remember no matter who you're interacting with the " I'm a cop, you're not" attitude will cost you sooner or later. Professionalism in ANY public safety career starts with the person, respect earns respect. End of my turn on the soap box.

[jimmyhat]

I agree wholeheartedly, the security officers at my job don't make arrests at all. If they witness a crime, they will detain the offender until we arrive - typically within 60 seconds.
You have answered what was my primary question, as to weather or not you are LE (or think you are), and the contrast between yourself and security staff on your site. I'm not sure If I understand what appears to be your indifference towards the other half, security, but it may be that I'm just not understanding your duty-position, be it typed and not spoken. However, My Uncle (a NY State Trooper) is looking into some things and he will be clarifying your posts for me more accurately.

As I'm responding to this, my better half is questioning my motive for spending time and energy on the subject, and why do I converse in the Security forums rather an LE affiliated site (I was an army MP for five years, and my current uniform and badge say Police, she's not hip to what Private Police are all about.) The answer is simple. My primary job is proactive security patrol, regardless of what my uniform says. The job is a private contract for specific services that are routinely handled by contract security. I identify with my peers in private security, and I never consider myself to be above and beyond anyone (except, maybe BOUNCERS). I believe I have a unique approach in this, many of the SCOP's I work with feel much differently.

If there is a point to this rant, it may be that I'm just trying to understand EMTFirefighters divisive nature. If you like being a cop, O.Com has plenty of space for you. If you fancy yourself a security-type, why not be more receptive of our culture, and assimilate rather than make yourself out to be "better-than-us?"

[talon]

I have always said that before any Officer be it Police, Deputy, SPO, SCOP, or anyone else gets arrest powers, that he or she should be required to work for 6 months as an unarmed uniformed no authority Security Guard. I think that this would help many to understand the problems incurred by both sides.

I worked for 2 years with only civilian powers and I think that I appreciated more than the average Officer when I was allowed arrest powers.

However that being said, I have been "burned" a few times by overzealous Security Guards that thought that it was their primary duty to find suspects for me to arrest. I always "fixed" them by having them subpoenaed to court a few times.

Appreciate any extra powers that you are given, don't abuse them and don't denigrate those without them.

[ycaso77]

I have always said that before any Officer be it Police, Deputy, SPO, SCOP, or anyone else gets arrest powers, that he or she should be required to work for 6 months as an unarmed uniformed no authority Security Guard. I think that this would help many to understand the problems incurred by both sides.

I worked for 2 years with only civilian powers and I think that I appreciated more than the average Officer when I was allowed arrest powers.

However that being said, I have been "burned" a few times by overzealous Security Guards that thought that it was their primary duty to find suspects for me to arrest. I always "fixed" them by having them subpoenaed to court a few times.

Appreciate any extra powers that you are given, don't abuse them and don't denigrate those without them.

I've also seen the other end where retired LE officers can't quite get over the fact they no longer have police powers and are expected to observe and report. Following the theme of your idea, I've always thought the departments that required a stint as a jail deputy or community service officer as a start point had a good thing going. I always preferred hiring someone with a few years military or professional security under thier belt. The military had the ingrained discipline and work ethic, the security guys a taste of the job without the benefit of police powers when dealing with the uncooperative segment of society. Of course no wing nuts, cast offs or desperate wanna bes need apply.
Anybody ever interview someone whose first questions were- do we get to use the lights and when do I get a gun?

[Lawson]

Anybody ever interview someone whose first questions were- do we get to use the lights and when do I get a gun?

My boss, when I came in for my interview :D :p

[talon]

If you want someone who will call the locals for everything, who will try to investgate and micro manage even more and was a "FORMER LEO AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT"!!! Hire one...

Alot of what LEO's do is politically motivated...not by the individual Officers but by their Departments. What I mean by that is that alot of what they do is to justify why they exist, to justify the budget and manpower increases. The more arrests the more jusification.

Whereas in the Private Sector the client isn't so much worried about racking up numbers of arrests as they are with keeping the peace...if everything goes smoothly no problem.

Like I said don't get me started on this one.

[Tennsix]

What I mean by that is that alot of what they do is to justify why they exist, to justify the budget and manpower increases. The more arrests the more jusification.
I disagree with that. PD’s can be a political animal but we don’t have to boaster our duties with arrests to rationalize our existence. Sure, more officers mean more arrests but that is because there are more eyes and ears out there. If a given community disbanded their PD, they would turn around and hire a security force. Then the security force would be dealing with same criminals and the same situations.

The point I am making is crime is in abundance and the police do not have to run up their stats to validate our existence.

[talon]

Tennsix,

I didn't clarify my point quit as well as I should have.

I was trying to show how alot of LEO's get the quirks that I and many others have noticed, especially when they move into the private sector and don't get me wrong I've got many quirks myself that I would need to smooth if I ever decided to go public sector.

I was using the example of a sometimes unspoken and unwritten......."quota system" for lack of a better term that exists in many a department.

I don't think that it is some type of consious conspiracy per say, just the way things naturally evolved.

[Mr. Security]

I'm just curious, why are you running my answers by a NYS Trooper?...

Bad boys, bad boys, whacha gonna do when they come for you? :D

[Tennsix]

Understood :)

[Tennsix]

I do like being a "cop." I put that in quotes because while the duties of a peace officer are very similar to those of a police officer (there's only 2 things police can do that we can't), MY job is far more about security than law enforcement. This is a better home for me than O.com.

I'm just curious, why are you running my answers by a NYS Trooper? He will have no idea where I work and more than likely has never had any interaction with peace officers outside of a Correctional Facility. If you want to verify my answers as true procedures, check out a copy of NYS CPL. It clearly outlines the roles of peace and police officers.
I have a genuine question. If NYS peace and police officers’ duties and responsibilities are so similar why not have one category? Why have two catagories of officers that essentially do the same job?

[GCMC Security]

Because police officers need to be employed by a government agency, whether it be state or local. I don't work for a public entity, it is a completely private college, we can't be police officers.


Hmm Yale and Harvard are government agencies? Thought those was private colleges could be wrong (seriously I might be) but I DO know that they BOTH employ Police Officers

[N. A. Corbier]

Hmm Yale and Harvard are government agencies? Thought those was private colleges could be wrong (seriously I might be) but I DO know that they BOTH employ Police Officers

Yale: Conn.
Harvard: Mass.

[GCMC Security]

Neither Yale or Harvard are in the State of New York.

Ok so in the State of New York, police officers can only be employed by an Govt Agency? Got ya

[HotelSecurity]

[QUOTE=EMTFirefighter]Because police officers need to be employed by a government agency, whether it be state or local. I don't work for a public entity, it is a completely private college, we can't be police officers.

QUOTE]

Did I not read a few years ago that Purolator Courrier company had their own Police Force?

In Canada you can be a Police Officer under the railway act. Canadian Pacific Railway is a private company & the police are Special Constables.

[zharn]

I am a security officer.
My job is to observe and report.
My job is to protect the individuals and property on my post.
I do this by being alert,aware of my environment and serious about my work.
My personal motto is this."The police enforce the law.I prevent the law from being broken".
My father -in law is a retired state police officer from New Mexico and i have a great deal of respect for him and those in his profession.I also know that as a security officer i dont have the same respect from many of his peers.I would only ask this one thing.If you are a registered peace officer,please dont come here to put us down.Don't talk down to us like we are idiots.In many states we do this job without any more arrest powers than a citizens arrest.We have to rely on our wits and professionalism to keep us out of trouble.Most of us dont have thousands of dollars of gear issued by our department.We do this job because we enjoy it.I was a little disappointed when i saw some of the posts here,,now i'm mad.This is my first post.I would like to enjoy these forums and learn from them,not defend my profession to some private university almost cop who desperately wants to prove how much cooler he is than everyone on these forums.This is in no way a slam on private institution police officers,just this specific one.

[Bill Warnock]

I am a security officer.
My job is to observe and report.
My job is to protect the individuals and property on my post.
I do this by being alert,aware of my environment and serious about my work.
My personal motto is this."The police enforce the law.I prevent the law from being broken".
My father -in law is a retired state police officer from New Mexico and i have a great deal of respect for him and those in his profession.I also know that as a security officer i dont have the same respect from many of his peers.I would only ask this one thing.If you are a registered peace officer,please dont come here to put us down.Don't talk down to us like we are idiots.In many states we do this job without any more arrest powers than a citizens arrest.We have to rely on our wits and professionalism to keep us out of trouble.Most of us dont have thousands of dollars of gear issued by our department.We do this job because we enjoy it.I was a little disappointed when i saw some of the posts here,,now i'm mad.This is my first post.I would like to enjoy these forums and learn from them,not defend my profession to some private university almost cop who desperately wants to prove how much cooler he is than everyone on these forums.This is in no way a slam on private institution police officers,just this specific one.
Well said. There are some who come to the forum to try to punch holes in our profession. We for our part should ignore them or pat them on the head and hope they go away.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[talon]

I am a security officer.
My job is to observe and report.
My job is to protect the individuals and property on my post.
I do this by being alert,aware of my environment and serious about my work.
My personal motto is this."The police enforce the law.I prevent the law from being broken".
My father -in law is a retired state police officer from New Mexico and i have a great deal of respect for him and those in his profession.I also know that as a security officer i dont have the same respect from many of his peers.I would only ask this one thing.If you are a registered peace officer,please dont come here to put us down.Don't talk down to us like we are idiots.In many states we do this job without any more arrest powers than a citizens arrest.We have to rely on our wits and professionalism to keep us out of trouble.Most of us dont have thousands of dollars of gear issued by our department.We do this job because we enjoy it.I was a little disappointed when i saw some of the posts here,,now i'm mad.This is my first post.I would like to enjoy these forums and learn from them,not defend my profession to some private university almost cop who desperately wants to prove how much cooler he is than everyone on these forums.This is in no way a slam on private institution police officers,just this specific one.


zharn,

I think we have all agreed to keep this forum professional and to learn from each other.

I think that the University Officer was just a little young and gung ho and will grow and mature if he stays in this business for very long.

I am commissioned in the Great State of Texas also as I do business there sometimes. Good to have you aboard.

[ycaso77]

Hmm Yale and Harvard are government agencies? Thought those was private colleges could be wrong (seriously I might be) but I DO know that they BOTH employ Police Officers

Speaking for Connecticut, Yale officers recieve thier police powers through the city of New Haven. Thier shield is a city shield like a New Haven patrolman, the only difference being the number series. As essientially New Haven officers they have authority citywide. Originally 2 New Haven patrolman were assigned to the Yale Campus until Yale petitioned the state for thier own police force. Yale remains the last non-governmental police force in the state. I believe Harvard officers are commisioned through Cambridge and derive thier authority from that town.

[zharn]

I will admit i was insulted and angry and i let that affect my post.I should not have made it a personal attack.That was wrong.I have no problems with differing opinions and we can agree to disagree.I hope that we can all state those opinions with respect and deference to to others in the forum.Lets all remember the simple fact that we are all wearers of a badge that makes us targets of those who would break the law and endanger those who are least able to protect themselves.lets consider the "all clear" between us.i dont have any wish to get into a pissing contest. in answer to the original question(before i got onto my soapbox) as far as i know texas only requires your badge not resemble the law enforcement agencies in your area.This aslo extends to your uniform.We wear navy shirts,with black pants (no stripes),black tie on some posts and our badge is a six pointer in brass.

[Tennsix]

zharn,

I think we have all agreed to keep this forum professional and to learn from each other.

I think that the University Officer was just a little young and gung ho and will grow and mature if he stays in this business for very long.

I am commissioned in the Great State of Texas also as I do business there sometimes. Good to have you aboard.
Which University officer? ;)

[Tennsix]

Well, I haven't been doing this as long as you have, but I hope to keep my record going for awhile.
How long have you been on the job? I have been a policeman for 19 years and I don't know anyone (including prosectors) that has a 100% conviction rate.

[GCMC Security]

Speaking for Connecticut, Yale officers recieve thier police powers through the city of New Haven. Thier shield is a city shield like a New Haven patrolman, the only difference being the number series. As essientially New Haven officers they have authority citywide. Originally 2 New Haven patrolman were assigned to the Yale Campus until Yale petitioned the state for thier own police force. Yale remains the last non-governmental police force in the state. I believe Harvard officers are commisioned through Cambridge and derive thier authority from that town.

Thank you for clearing that up, like I said I wasn't sure.

[ycaso77]

Thank you for clearing that up, like I said I wasn't sure.

Its a unique situation in the state, and a lot of people here aren't quite sure of thier status. The Yale-New Haven Hospital had its own police force until quite recently under the same general conditions. However they lost thier police powers through political grandstanding and an attempt to get a few more votes by the mayor. Oddly enough the hospital security still requires graduation and certification from a POST certified academy within the last 3 years before applying. They still make upwards of 22.00 and hour and seem to be waiting for the mayor to leave office and apply for a reinstatement of police powers. Anyone else suffer from local political infighting on thier job?

[talon]

Which University officer? ;)


Tennsix,

I would never make the mistake of calling you young. :) So... you know, the other one.

[Tennsix]

Well, I never.... :eek:

[HotelSecurity]

The People who patrol the Montreal transit system called Surveillance Agents, used to be Special Police Constables under the Railway Act. They're another force that had their police powers taken away. When they were police the Sgts were armed. The agents were not.

Their police powers were taken away from them. Instead they became Security/By-Law Enforcement Officers. A by-law was written regulating conduct in the metro. So they now enforce this by-law. Instead of arresting you for disturbing the peace under the criminal code, they charge you for violating the part of the by-law that says you can't disturb the peace ;)

By the way. They are now in the process of being taken over by the Montreal Police. They will become police again.

[ycaso77]

The People who patrol the Montreal transit system called Surveillance Agents, used to be Special Police Constables under the Railway Act. They're another force that had their police powers taken away. When they were police the Sgts were armed. The agents were not.

Their police powers were taken away from them. Instead they became Security/By-Law Enforcement Officers. A by-law was written regulating conduct in the metro. So they now enforce this by-law. Instead of arresting you for disturbing the peace under the criminal code, they charge you for violating the part of the by-law that says you can't disturb the peace ;)

By the way. They are now in the process of being taken over by the Montreal Police. They will become police again.

I think I'd be a little paranoid by this time, start putting on my patches with velcro.

[HotelSecurity]

I think I'd be a little paranoid by this time, start putting on my patches with velcro.

That reminds me. I once heard a story which I never knew if it was true or just an urban legend. A business man set up 2 contract security companies. Their agents wore patches on their shirts. When they reached the maximum number of hours they could work before having to be paid overtime, they would take off their patches that were put on with Velcro & put on ones from the other company.

[Tennsix]

A year tomorrow.
Sounds like a good dept

[Mr. Security]

Well, I never.... :eek:

We don't think you're "old." More like: Mature, Seasoned, Experienced, Gramps, oops I mean Veteran. :D

[N. A. Corbier]

That reminds me. I once heard a story which I never knew if it was true or just an urban legend. A business man set up 2 contract security companies. Their agents wore patches on their shirts. When they reached the maximum number of hours they could work before having to be paid overtime, they would take off their patches that were put on with Velcro & put on ones from the other company.

I've seen that done. It also included having non-exclusive contracts with the client, etc.

[Mr. Security]

Then they be breaking the law of the land. Actually I just turned in one company for using police badges :O)

I disagree. The law that changed the badge requirement included a clause that allowed companies to continue using the badges issued before 2003 so as not to impose an undue financial hardship on the company by requiring them to replace all their badges at one time. Basically, all badges ordered AFTER the law took effect must be square.

Can you PM me w/ the companies name?

[Mr. Security]

I'm finally getting used to my new square badge. It's actually "starting to grow on me" (not literally; LoL) a little. :eek:

I love the new uniforms though. Hopefully the client won't object and demand that we go back to the "soft" ones. Time will tell.

[N. A. Corbier]

Forgot to mention. I have one of the PSG Agent badges in silver. Its the old design on the website, not the new one for NAPSOA. It has a State of Wisconsin Seal on it, no one gave me any trouble ordering it from Smith and Warren. Mainly because it does not give the impression of a public authority.

Its great for when people ask, "Are you from that company, here to fix our PCs?" Then you hear, "that ID looks like it was printed from a printer." Then, "Woah! That... doesn't look printed from a printer. Cool."

[kingsman]

We have been told by our company here in Michigan that we are not allowed to wear any metal badges.

I have worked for several security companies in michigan, and none of them have ever given me a badge. uniforms very all over the map. my current uniform is Black pants and a White shirt with the half moon patches with the company name, and security above the left breast pocket, and a cloth badge above the right pocket.

Personally, I would prefer that we wear white shirts with Khaki pants, or black on Black shirt and pants.

The previous company I worked for had black shirts and khaki pants. I worked with them in Louisiana for 3 months and it was amazing the number of security personnel walking around down there, many making more money than the police.

here is the michigan law in the subject.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(vx4hjq55dgi0fp55wjauzcag)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-338-1069

It looks like you might be able to wear a metal badge if it is approved by the state, but are restricted to a patch if not.

[darrell]

We have been told by our company here in Michigan that we are not allowed to wear any metal badges.

I have worked for several security companies in michigan, and none of them have ever given me a badge. uniforms very all over the map. my current uniform is Black pants and a White shirt with the half moon patches with the company name, and security above the left breast pocket, and a cloth badge above the right pocket.

Personally, I would prefer that we wear white shirts with Khaki pants, or black on Black shirt and pants.

The previous company I worked for had black shirts and khaki pants. I worked with them in Louisiana for 3 months and it was amazing the number of security personnel walking around down there, many making more money than the police.

here is the michigan law in the subject.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(vx4hjq55dgi0fp55wjauzcag)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-338-1069

It looks like you might be able to wear a metal badge if it is approved by the state, but are restricted to a patch if not.


MSP Regulates the badges here heavily. The badge can't look like a Police, fire or ems badge and must say SECURITY GUARD.

If you are inhouse they aren't regulated as much.

[IB107]

in utah were can wear any badge except the form of a star badge, also we can not have the state seal. but we can ave shields, squares, circles, diamonds,etc...

[N. A. Corbier]

in utah were can wear any badge except and form of a star badge, also we can not have the state seal. but we can ave shields, squares, circles, diamonds,etc...
How many points on the star?

[IB107]

no stars.. i typod... ill fix that now :P

[N. A. Corbier]

no stars.. i typod... ill fix that now :P

No, I mean, they won't let any stars, or just a perticular star?

Example: In Florida, 5-Point Stars are reserved for the Sheriff's of the counties. 7 are fine. 6 are fine. 8 is fine too.

On a side note, I'm about 3 seconds away from firing an AT-4 at my neighbor's hoopty. I can FEEL his bass, and he's 2 blocks away at the light.

[IB107]

no stars.. period. its state law :P no "ranger type either circluar with the star in middle"

[IB107]

No, I mean, they won't let any stars, or just a perticular star?

Example: In Florida, 5-Point Stars are reserved for the Sheriff's of the counties. 7 are fine. 6 are fine. 8 is fine too.

On a side note, I'm about 3 seconds away from firing an AT-4 at my neighbor's hoopty. I can FEEL his bass, and he's 2 blocks away at the light.


I DARE YOU!

[N. A. Corbier]

I DARE YOU!
Unforutnately, it'd take me quite awhile and quite a bit of PVC pipe to fashion together an AT4.

Might get some 6mm pellets at 500 FPS fired at his car, though, if he keeps it up. I just put my airsoft M4 back together with a new spring.

[GCMC Security]

Each of the companies I worked for in Michigan issued metal badges.

Nathan would you like to borrow my airsoft M249 that is on its way here? :D

[N. A. Corbier]

Each of the companies I worked for in Michigan issued metal badges.

Nathan would you like to borrow my airsoft M249 that is on its way here? :D

Is that electric or spring? My M4 is spring. :) I should break down and buy an electric.

[masterchief]

does anyone know about this

how are the regulations or the laws for security badges in ontario ?

greetings masterchief

[HotelSecurity]

does anyone know about this

how are the regulations or the laws for security badges in ontario ?

greetings masterchief

I don't know if it's proper to mention another forum but www.protectionservices.ca has lots of members from Ontario. One thing I can tell you is that Ontario, like Quebec is just about to change the laws re private security. What might be allowed today might not be soon.

[sgtnewby]

In Minnesota, security can wear any style badge. But only law enforcement and official government security (city, county, or state) can have the state seal in their badges. Working for a county hospital, we have the state seal. Private security contracted by a governing body also cannot use the state seal.

[Mr. Security]

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges....
......

Regarding those stinkin’ badges: Ever since CT issued a "square badge" regulation, many officers have opted for the "We don't need no stinkin’ badges" approach rather than wear the clunkers that the State mandated. :p

[Mall Director]

In Colorado we can wear any badge with any non law enforcement logo, and it "has to" state "Security Officer".