Patrol vehicles, what do you get to drive?

[3rd_shift]

For me, it has been small pickup trucks and the occasional Queen Victoria. ;)
Most of which have been older than my oldest underwear I dare to wear. :p

[EMTGuard]

Plymoth Voyager with medical gear for emergency response. http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/4559/medvan56ik.jpg

[EMTGuard]

Inside of the Medical Van has back board, O2, AED, BLS bag and other gear-
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2376/medvan44ux.jpg

[Charger]

Not on patrol anymore, but when I was, we drove the 2000+ Impalas.... and occaisionally got to drive the command vehicle, 2001 Blazer.... I'd take the Impalas over that thing any day though... lol

[N. A. Corbier]

Lets see, over the years I have gotten to drive:
A 1990 Caprice Classic, which was nice.
A 1996 Caprice Classic, which was nice when we installed a laptop mount to hold onto, the thing had leather seats and I slid around in it alot... :(
A 1986 Crown Victoria, which wasn't nice.
A 1992 Ford Taurus, which plain sucked.
A 1991 Buick Cenutry, which was fully decked out in cheap lightbar and graphics
and
A 1993 Ford Ranger Pickup Truck, which was Ok, other than the fact it was a PU

[ARealCop]

2000 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor with just over 95,000 miles

She is falling apart rapidly!

[N. A. Corbier]

2000 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor with just over 95,000 miles

She is falling apart rapidly!

Take home or shift car? I've noticed that if your agency is smart enough to issue take homes, you'll get alot more service out of em. For a 2000 CVPI to have 95,000 miles on it, with a police agency, is incredible. :) Give me the days of the Caprice Classic when they started falling apart after 300,000.

[Mr. Security]

2000 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor with just over 95,000 miles

She is falling apart rapidly!

You know what they say....FORD
- Found On Road Dead
- Fix Or Repair Daily
- First On Rust & Dust
- First On Recalls & Dissatisfaction :D

[Arff312]

For us we have a 1999 toyota tacoma. It is falling apart with over 120 000 miles. We have a amber strobe bar on top. The strobes dont work, the driver door doesnt open some times, the front has damamge and the driver window does not open. But it goes at least. Also we have a golf cart and a bike. Thats it we are trying to replace our truck but they are being cheap.

[OccamsRazor]

The only site I occasionally work that has a vehicle utilizes a 2005 Subaru Forester. It's got 33k on it, and the fuses to the radio/cd were removed and the holder was rendered hors de combat so officers wouldn't listen to it. :mad: Oh yeah, the heater...Doesn't.

It's also got the Shucks/Checker $20 amber revolving light on the roof and magnetic logos on the doors.

[N. A. Corbier]

So, they destroyed the resale value of the vehicle so that the employees couldn't listen to CDs or Radio. That's brilliant, really, brilliant. These guys must plan on running that thing into the ground - or it was one of their personal vehicles.

[Charger]

Gotta love it, eh?

Forgot to mention past rides, and give "reviews" of 'em... lol

2000+ Impalas - Nice rides, powerful, and they're a dime-a-dozen in the general public around here, so it's easy to blend in/not be seen... and after seeing the damage from an accident one of my fellow officers got in while driving one, I would have NO problems whatsoever putting my family in one and feeling safe... Downsides: Trannies seem to be an issue... 3 of the 11 cars needed new trannies after only 50k...

The Blazer - Decent ride, weak power... BAD suspension issues, and tranny was a DEFINATE problem... went through 3 in 120k...

Previous companies:
'94 CVPI - JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK HATE FORD JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK
Need I say more? ;)

'91 Caprice Police Package - Nice ride, power out the bazonga! Car had almost 250k when we got rid of it for the CVPI, still on original engine/tranny.... Why don't they make them like this anymore? :(

I tell you what though, I can't wait to get my hands on the wheel of one of the new Charger PD cars ;) <evilgrin>

[Mr. Security]

The only "vehicle" I ever used for patrol (other than a personal one) was a battered Schwinn bicycle with two "doofey" wire baskets on the either side. One time while patrolling a parking lot, I had a kid tell me: "nice bike man!" :rolleyes:

[N. A. Corbier]

If we ever do a bike unit, I'm buying Smith and Wesson bikes. I've put quite a bit of time on bikes, as I like to ride bikes, and with gas prices the way they were, and the way that Florida's weather was, I would ride a bike 10 miles to and from work, and then use the bike on patrol at work. (A resort condo property). The residents, guests, and management liked the fact I was more accessable on a bike than in their golf cart with all the flaps down, and that it wasn't a golf cart. I could also go places that the cart couldn't.

I also used the bike (threw it in the trunk of my Taurus, ever buy a Taurus...) on a strip mall-like industrial park in South St. Petersburg. I felt alot safer on a bike that I did in my vehicle, or out on foot. I could disappear with ease, could move quickly and silently, and had instant access to 55 watt forward lights on the handle bars. I cought more burglary in progress that way. They were looking for police or security vehicles. They never heard me ride up, nor were they looking in the shadows of the building's side and loading bays, only the lit street.

When the bike is outfitted correctly, and you have trained riders (Either to a security or police bicycle operator standard, including firing from the mounted position, defensive tactics with the bike, and proper dismount/mount from moving position), you can do alot of proactive enforcement with the bike. I think that's why police agencies love them. What they call community policing, we call proactive enforcement. The mission is the same in both cases - get out there and interact with the community your serving.

[Mr. Security]

If we ever do a bike unit, I'm buying Smith and Wesson bikes...... I could move quickly and silently, and had instant access to 55 watt forward lights on the handle bars. I cought more burglary in progress that way. They were looking for police or security vehicles. They never heard me ride up, nor were they looking in the shadows of the building's side and loading bays, only the lit street.

I've seen their bikes. They look great. I also like the stealth that a bike offers. The bad guys rarely see/hear you until you're right on top of them. :D

Great way to keep in shape to. Beats sitting on your butt watching it get bigger :eek:

[OccamsRazor]

So, they destroyed the resale value of the vehicle so that the employees couldn't listen to CDs or Radio. That's brilliant, really, brilliant. These guys must plan on running that thing into the ground - or it was one of their personal vehicles.

Well it belongs to the client, who treats all of their fleet vehicles like #$%&. I mean, we're talking about instances like a 2004 Taurus that is sitting in their lot with 87 miles on it, rapidly dissolving from non-use (the tabs expired in Feburary). I was told by the client that someone driving it lost the keys, and the company refused to pay a locksmith or the dealer for new ones.

From what I was told by a regular officer there (hearsay, I know), one of the first people to drive the car was playing the stereo at an '11' on the dial when the client's president walked by.

[N. A. Corbier]

Brilliant, all around. :)

[1stWatch]

2001 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor
160,000 miles of service after being used 3 years as an Arlington, TX police car.
Runs decently, great engine, but requires maintenance several times per week.
Somebody had the bright idea of putting low profile tires on it - rough ride.
The heater needs fixing, though, and it's starting to freeze. :mad:

[EMTGuard]

Well it belongs to the client, who treats all of their fleet vehicles like #$%&. I mean, we're talking about instances like a 2004 Taurus that is sitting in their lot with 87 miles on it, rapidly dissolving from non-use (the tabs expired in Feburary). I was told by the client that someone driving it lost the keys, and the company refused to pay a locksmith or the dealer for new ones.

From what I was told by a regular officer there (hearsay, I know), one of the first people to drive the car was playing the stereo at an '11' on the dial when the client's president walked by.
Lots of that where I work. Steel plants are hell on vehicles. Lots of tire damage and the rust filled dust eats your paint job like road salt. None of the vehicles we use has the fuses in the radio either. Too many jerks cranking the volume. I once had a SO I worked with boast about how, when they got bored at night, they'd take the client car they used for patrol and go drive donuts and skids in the dirt pit in the back of the property. They might go out in the pickup they patrol the plant in and go mud riding down paths the bulldozers have trouble getting into. Just tearing up the car being stupid. Personally I don't see the appeal of trashing the vehicles just because I don't own them. Many people don't see it that way.

[Charger]

Lots of that where I work. Steel plants are hell on vehicles. Lots of tire damage and the rust filled dust eats your paint job like road salt. None of the vehicles we use has the fuses in the radio either. Too many jerks cranking the volume. I once had a SO I worked with boast about how, when they got bored at night, they'd take the client car they used for patrol and go drive donuts and skids in the dirt pit in the back of the property. They might go out in the pickup they patrol the plant in and go mud riding down paths the bulldozers have trouble getting into. Just tearing up the car being stupid. Personally I don't see the appeal of trashing the vehicles just because I don't own them. Many people don't see it that way.

^^^ Prime example of the low level of professionalism that gives security the bad reputation it has these days... These are the kind of morons we need to weed out.. ;)

[N. A. Corbier]

Heh. You have to love idiots. I used to give a pick up truck hell, on an open air construction site. I'd thump through trails cut by the bulldozers. It was about the only way we could effectively get back into the area and deal with over 50,000 in equipment thefts. They, supposedly, stole BULLDOZERS.

[SEO_09]

well i work for Control Security Group and we have the privalege of driving a 2004 honda CRV. This vehical origainaly had a full size 48" whelen 9000m on the top. But that crapped out, because the car couldn't handle it, and it was then stolen. So was a mini whelen that was bought to replace it. Anyways we are supposed to get a new 2006 Ford Escape. It will be the fleet model with a better setup for handling emergency equipment. Does anyone have experience with these? And if so what can u tell me?

[Mr. Security]

[QUOTE=SEO_09This vehical origainaly had a full size 48" whelen 9000m on the top....... and it was then stolen. So was a mini whelen that was bought to replace it.[/QUOTE]

And this was a "SECURITY" vehicle?? :D

[N. A. Corbier]

I want to know how you steal a light bar off the top of a truck, if its securely gutter-latched down.

[N. A. Corbier]

well i work for Control Security Group and we have the privalege of driving a 2004 honda CRV. This vehical origainaly had a full size 48" whelen 9000m on the top. But that crapped out, because the car couldn't handle it, and it was then stolen. So was a mini whelen that was bought to replace it. Anyways we are supposed to get a new 2006 Ford Escape. It will be the fleet model with a better setup for handling emergency equipment. Does anyone have experience with these? And if so what can u tell me?


Always get the Fleet Model over the Civilian model. Fleet models are designed to accept heavier loads, using a heavier alternator. They also have thicker wires, and a dedicated power distribution block for hooking up "auxiliary lights."

You don't go hooking up a 35 amp light bar to a 100 amp alternator, when the car needs 80 amps of power to run. There's a reason police vehicles have huge alternators and double batteries. :)

[Echos13]

Always get the Fleet Model over the Civilian model. Fleet models are designed to accept heavier loads, using a heavier alternator. They also have thicker wires, and a dedicated power distribution block for hooking up "auxiliary lights."

You don't go hooking up a 35 amp light bar to a 100 amp alternator, when the car needs 80 amps of power to run. There's a reason police vehicles have huge alternators and double batteries. :)

Driving a Toyota 4-Runner forever! This thing has been to the shop more times than my own car. It's all the stuff connected to it that brakes, the engine just keeps on going. Hide-a-strobes in the corner front and back lamps. Sometimes I think that even pushes it. :eek:

Whats that formula? watts = volts x amps?

[SEO_09]

The lightbar had to be removed because it was causing the truck to short out. By the way, many security companies have fullsize lightbars mounted on their vehicals.

[Charger]

Amp draw is a big problem with all this equipment... that's why the newer LED lightbars are becoming more & more popular... the entire bar uses less amps than the turn signals in some vehicles... No more humongous drain on the system... :)

The company I worked for previously (that drove the Impalas) used LED deck lights... and MAN were those things bright... awesome lights :)

Oh, and if cost is a concern, Galls actually has a new LED decklight for $109... called the Phantom or something like that... considering upgrading my lights to those here soon..

[N. A. Corbier]

Galls is expensive as hell. :) Froogle (froogle.google.com) the name SVP Phantom. Most Galls Brand emergency equipment is actually ShowMe/Able 2, or Brooking Industries. Your paying for the Gall's name.

[jakeslife]

I will post a photo of me and my car soon.

Currently, my pathetic company has a few Ford Focuses (one of them being mine), Chevrolet Cavaliers (2003, not th enicer new ones), a Kia Rio that they feel they can keep fixing each week when it dies, and three Toyota Echos. Yes, Echos.

Our fancy contracts get Subaru Forresters.

[Tennsix]

I want to know how you steal a light bar off the top of a truck, if its securely gutter-latched down.
I know of a light that was stolen while cop was napping, in the car. I thought the same thing so I started looking at different way light bars are mounted. With some, it would not be difficult to steal them.

BTW, it wasn't me! :D

[N. A. Corbier]

I know of a light that was stolen while cop was napping, in the car. I thought the same thing so I started looking at different way light bars are mounted. With some, it would not be difficult to steal them.

BTW, it wasn't me! :D

Hehe... :) Yah, it took me 3 minutes to remove a lightbar from a car one time, doing a switch to a "real" light bar. SVP to Federal Signal.

[EMTGuard]

Who makes "Smith & Wesson" bikes? Certainly not them...
Yes they do. Since at least 1997. In 2002 they teamed with Cycle Source Group. Smith and Wesson makes some Hella nice bikes. Expensive but hella nice.
From- http://www.totalbike.com/news/article/744/
10/03/2002

Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation parent company of the legendary 150-year-old handgun maker, Smith & Wesson Corp., today announced it has entered into a licensing agreement with Cycle Source Group, which produces bicycles and a wide array of accessories for Jeep and Honda. Cycle Source Group currently distributes their lines through mass retailers, sporting goods chains and bicycle shops.

"This new licensee affords us the opportunity to increase our exposure in the traditional consumer retail channels," said Mitchell Saltz, CEO and chairman of Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. "This is another step in our strategic licensing plan to create new revenue streams leveraging the legendary Smith & Wesson brand."

"We are very excited about taking over the Smith & Wesson bicycle line," said Nyle Nims, president of Cycle Source Group. "We already deal with
institutional and fleet orders and are prepared to expand and meet the needs of law enforcement, municipalities and the consumer marketplace. This is a great opportunity to expand the Smith & Wesson name."

Cycle Source Group will launch their representation of the Smith & Wesson bicycle line at the InterBike Show to be held at the Sands Convention Center in Las Vegas, NV from Sunday, October 6, 2002 through Tuesday, October 8, 2002. The InterBike Show is the largest bicycle trade Show in the U.S. and Cycle Source Group will be located in booth #339.

Here's some links-

http://martialmart.com/smwecubi.html
http://www.themaskedmerchant.com/Store/catalog.aspx?catId=378123

[N. A. Corbier]

Yes they do. Since at least 1997. In 2002 they teamed with Cycle Source Group. Smith and Wesson makes some Hella nice bikes. Expensive but hella nice.
From- http://www.totalbike.com/news/article/744/
10/03/2002

Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation parent company of the legendary 150-year-old handgun maker, Smith & Wesson Corp., today announced it has entered into a licensing agreement with Cycle Source Group, which produces bicycles and a wide array of accessories for Jeep and Honda. Cycle Source Group currently distributes their lines through mass retailers, sporting goods chains and bicycle shops.

"This new licensee affords us the opportunity to increase our exposure in the traditional consumer retail channels," said Mitchell Saltz, CEO and chairman of Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. "This is another step in our strategic licensing plan to create new revenue streams leveraging the legendary Smith & Wesson brand."

"We are very excited about taking over the Smith & Wesson bicycle line," said Nyle Nims, president of Cycle Source Group. "We already deal with
institutional and fleet orders and are prepared to expand and meet the needs of law enforcement, municipalities and the consumer marketplace. This is a great opportunity to expand the Smith & Wesson name."

Cycle Source Group will launch their representation of the Smith & Wesson bicycle line at the InterBike Show to be held at the Sands Convention Center in Las Vegas, NV from Sunday, October 6, 2002 through Tuesday, October 8, 2002. The InterBike Show is the largest bicycle trade Show in the U.S. and Cycle Source Group will be located in booth #339.

Here's some links-

http://martialmart.com/smwecubi.html
http://www.themaskedmerchant.com/Store/catalog.aspx?catId=378123

Like most firearms manufacturers, Smith and Wesson hedged their bets and began doing custom CNC maching, most likely knowing that civilian weapons sales (which keep the company afloat) would eventually be dampened to the point it was no longer profitable, or they'd be sued into non-profitability.

Right now, I imagine that S&W could drop all law enforcement and military contracts, and run straight off their CNC, Engraving, and mold work. That dosen't include S&W Handcuffs, since those are their CNC division, not firearms.

[Mr. Security]

S&W handcuffs are absolute garbage.

How so? Also, what do you think of Hiatts?

[Tennsix]

S&W handcuffs are absolute garbage.
I have had a pair of S&W cuffs for over 20 years and still use them every day.

[Charger]

Hiatts and Smith & Wesson make some of the best cuffs. Add Peerless to that list, and you're all set... I wouldn't get cuffs from anyplace else... but I've been reconsidering recently, after seeing the new ones ASP just released... But I want to hear some feedback from other Officers who have used them first...

[N. A. Corbier]

I have had a pair of S&W cuffs for over 20 years and still use them every day.

My four pair were 10 years old when I gave them to another officer before I moved. They're still in service with that guy.

[histfan71]

How so? Also, what do you think of Hiatts?

I prefer Peerless but have had no problems with S&W cuffs; S&W would not be first choice, however.

Hiatt is crap. A former partner of mine at the college carried Hiatts and he had to cuff someone one night. When the someone needed to be uncuffed to sign the citation my partner was unable to open the cuffs. I tried my Bianchi handcuff key and the cuffs still would not open. We had to use a bolt cutter to get the cuffs off. Talk about embarassing. And yes, he still got cited.

Also, after the incident I examined the Hiatt cuffs to see if perhaps poor maintenance was the cause of the malfunction. The cuffs were clean and in good repair, so poor maintenance did not appear to cause the problem.

[Taser]

I've got no problem with S&W cuffs either, they've served me well over the years with many, many applications. I might switch to ASP when there are some better cases for them out there.

As for cars, 2005 Chevy Impala lately. It's clean, low miles (25,000), still smells good, and drives well. Definitely not my favorite car, but it works.

[Marriott S/O]

I drive a saturn SL2 YEAH muda****a

[exguard]

In 1993 / 1994 I worked for a priviate firm as a field supervisor. My responsibilities included random checks at our sites which involved daily miles. I had the option when I was hired of driving one of the company patrol vehicles to accomplish this part of the job or be given an additional $400.00 weekly fuel / maintenace account for my 1992 Pontiac Sunbird.

The patrol vehicles were pathetic.....late 80's nissan pick-ups very, very basic ...right down to the AM radios {No FM so forget stereo} Amber Light-Bar and they smelled like......like......anyway......I obviously opted for the allowance and drove my own car.

I can remember one morning the corporate manager asked me to take one of the patrol vehicles to the main office in North Jersey to have the driver side door repaired. {When I wasn't checking on guards, dealing with pay-roll issues, call-outs, and staffing problems I was the Office Slave} The door was tied together with a rope to keep it shut. Driving this thing 80 miles north was just such a pleasure. And the replacement wreck they sent me back with......

[Mr. Security]

S&W.....I don't like the double-lock, the way you have to slide it, instead of just pushing it in.......

I don't like that feature either.

[Mr. Security]

I prefer Peerless but have had no problems with S&W cuffs; S&W would not be first choice, however.

Hiatt is crap.....

The mechanical action on my pair of Hiatt cuffs is rough compared to Peerless. However, I believe Hiatt handcuffs are harder to pick and here is the reason why: Look at the ratchet locking mechanism on the Hiatt cuffs and you will see that it is comprised of multiple spring loaded levers that interlock with the hinged saw tooth arm of the cuff. The same mechanism on Peerless is one piece, making it easier to push up with a paper clip. Moreover the teeth on the Hiatt cuffs are cut considerably deeper than Peerless, which makes it harder to force a paper clip or some other picking device between the teeth on the cuff arm and the ratchet. Unfortunately, this causes the rough mechanical action, even when lubricated properly.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

I drive 2005 Chev Impala with federal signal Vista light bar in red and smartsiren, prisoner screen, push bars, etc. We will be switching to Colorado pickups and slick top warning lights. I wish my company would spring for laptops in patrol cars, were already wired better for wireless acess than most cities and have a good firewall so information security is not a problem. but they won't do it :confused: oh well.

[N. A. Corbier]

I drive 2005 Chev Impala with federal signal Vista light bar in red and smartsiren, prisoner screen, push bars, etc. We will be switching to Colorado pickups and slick top warning lights. I wish my company would spring for laptops in patrol cars, were already wired better for wireless acess than most cities and have a good firewall so information security is not a problem. but they won't do it :confused: oh well.

If you folks generate alot of paperwork, try a proposal that will demonstrate the lessening of paperwork creation, storage, tracking, and archiving costs.

However, you have to have a good proposal to offset the additional man-hours time in training, installation, etc. And, of course, have a good paperless records management system.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

If you folks generate alot of paperwork, try a proposal that will demonstrate the lessening of paperwork creation, storage, tracking, and archiving costs.

However, you have to have a good proposal to offset the additional man-hours time in training, installation, etc. And, of course, have a good paperless records management system.

We generate a lot of paperwork, however we already do it on the computer. We currently have to go to one of the security gates to type our reports which isn't a problem. My problem is we have thousands of employees at this one site not to mention certain areas are pubically accesible. We have no way of running someone to verify their employee status or to run cars. Currently we have to have our dispatch run cars. I have brought the issue up several times and have been told they wont do it. Its just frustrating to see us have the tools but not properly utilized. Oh well I am sure that one day they will decide to do it. Time will tell.

[N. A. Corbier]

How do you run cars? DMV, or Boeing Personnel Records? Then again, before I moved up here, I would of never thought that a security agency could run anything remotely like red lights, sirens, etc.

[Taser]

How do you run cars? DMV, or Boeing Personnel Records? Then again, before I moved up here, I would of never thought that a security agency could run anything remotely like red lights, sirens, etc.
In Washington there is something known as VIPS: Vehicle/Vessel Information Processing System. You can type in a license plate and it comes up with the registered owner, their address, VIN number, vehicle make and model, color, year, etc., down to how much they paid to license the vehicle.

I'm not sure if that is what Ledgerwood uses, but that is one option.

[N. A. Corbier]

In Washington there is something known as VIPS: Vehicle/Vessel Information Processing System. You can type in a license plate and it comes up with the registered owner, their address, VIN number, vehicle make and model, color, year, etc., down to how much they paid to license the vehicle.

I'm not sure if that is what Ledgerwood uses, but that is one option.

I know of information clearinghouses that allow DMV runs, but you have to be a licensed PI company to access that information. What you speak of reminds me of a Florida Tax Collector's tag system, which was LE/PI/Surety Bondsman only.

I was thinking more that on Boeing's campus, running the tag through the personnel system might be more useful. After all, if it dosen't show up, it better have a reason for being on Boeing property. I'd say that's "probable cause" to make a stop, but hell, its private property. The old man on his porch has never needed PC to yell, "You kids get off my damn lawn!"

[Taser]

I know of information clearinghouses that allow DMV runs, but you have to be a licensed PI company to access that information. What you speak of reminds me of a Florida Tax Collector's tag system, which was LE/PI/Surety Bondsman only.

I was thinking more that on Boeing's campus, running the tag through the personnel system might be more useful. After all, if it dosen't show up, it better have a reason for being on Boeing property. I'd say that's "probable cause" to make a stop, but hell, its private property. The old man on his porch has never needed PC to yell, "You kids get off my damn lawn!"
I know of at least one in-house security agency that uses this system. They are at a private university. I'm sure many others do as well.

But having Boeing employees register their cars with Boeing would also make sense. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't have a system like that.

[crankloud]

Currently driving a brand new toyota camry,Crashed the old one,very wet slippery road she wouldn't stop wrecked the front end.Government car so plenty of paper work after the accident.

[jakeslife]

We use VIPS at my company in Seattle, but have to run it over the radio to the dispatcher.

I've seen the Boeing cars and they are slick, except the one that almost hit me walking through a shared site in Tukwila.

[wvd1979]

I don't have much use for a patrol vehicle. I work at one large building and I don't transport prisoners. It would be cool to have the cruiser with the strobes and sirens and all those toys though. ;)

[flashlightcop509]

At my site it's a toss up between one of our '06 Subaru Foresters or a '03 Jeep Liberty; Cuz you just gotta have AWD on Killington in the winter...

Outfitted with Gall's Wig Wag and taillight flashers and that's about it; The Jeep also has a Gall's flip down visor light.

[exguard]

I don't have much use for a patrol vehicle. I work at one large building and I don't transport prisoners. It would be cool to have the cruiser with the strobes and sirens and all those toys though. ;)


That would look intresting in the building's stair-wells. I'm sure the hallways would be a manuviering problem. :D :D

[wvd1979]

That would look intresting in the building's stair-wells. I'm sure the hallways would be a manuviering problem. :D :D

Actually if I had some kind of little tiny thing like a Jeep Liberty I could probably maneuver it around. Ideally I should have a 4 wheeler with a blue strobe light that I could drive around the cubicle farm. :D

[ycaso77]

We have 3 Crown Vics, 1 Impala, 2 Toyota Highlander Hybrids, I Montana Minivan and a Subaru wagon all with full graphics and the amber whelan lightbars. Plus two unmarked crown vics. Everything is done in the police garage so its easy for maintenance, graphics and lightbars.

[HotelSecurity]

The downtown hotel is a 25 story high-rise so we use our feet & 6 elevators :p

The 2 side-by-side hotels out by the airport have large open air ajoining parking lots. We borrow one of the shuttles buses to do the patrol.

When I'm feeling nasty I like to slowly patrol passing in front of the front doors of the hotel just before the real shuttle is to pass by to take people to the airport. It's fun to look in the rear view mirror & see people carrying large pieces of luggage running after you thinking they've missed the shuttle :p :D

(No...I don't really do that. In fact I've having large magnetic SECURITE signs made up to put on the vans so it will be clearer that we are not the shuttle).

[GCMC Security]

Make sure you spell it correctly on the sign...

It is, He's in Canada.

[HotelSecurity]

Make sure you spell it correctly on the sign...

Most non French commercial signs in any language other that French is illegal in Quebec. SECURITE (but with accents over the Es) is French for SECURITY. (You learn something new everyday :D ). Most North Americans can figure out that SECURITE means SECURITY. It's the Asian guests & others that don't use the same alphabet that have problems. Espeically in the past when our identification was just a name tag with SECURITE written on it instead of a name. This is one of the reasons we changed to a shield shaped badge.

Some other terms are sometimes used to get around the law. SURVEILLANCE & PROTECTION are bilingual.

[N. A. Corbier]

Most non French commercial signs in any language other that French is illegal in Quebec. SECURITE (but with accents over the Es) is French for SECURITY. (You learn something new everyday :D ). Most North Americans can figure out that SECURITE means SECURITY. It's the Asian guests & others that don't use the same alphabet that have problems. Espeically in the past when our identification was just a name tag with SECURITE written on it instead of a name. This is one of the reasons we changed to a shield shaped badge.

Some other terms are sometimes used to get around the law. SURVEILLANCE & PROTECTION are bilingual.

Do all your parking and tow forms have to be in French, too? I always wondered how far that "Must be French" rule went up there.

[HotelSecurity]

Oui. I mean yes :D . Other languages are allowed in certain cases but French must be prominent. Not to get political but you can't blame them. They were here first (after the native North Americans) & are completely surrounded by English. They had to do something to protect their language.

[The Lord of the Keys]

Where I work we have a mixer of vehicles that our owned by the client. Up untill last year we used 2002 Ford Escapes, but our current fleet is a mixture of 2005 Ford Freestars, Explorers, and Crown Vics.

[metalgolem]

My company patrol car is a 2004 Chevrolet Optra. When I say Chevrolet, I mean Chevrolet/Daewoo since the manufacture of the car was some weird GM-Daewoo misconception.

The car is driven mostly at night and yes..you guessed it, the headlights have blown out numerous times, as well as the marker lights. Of course, the engineering geniuses that dreamed up this car made it so that changing the headlight bulbs have to be done by a mechanic (the headlight assembly has to be lifted out of the mounts).

We have no siren or flashing lights, strobes or anything that would make this vehicle look like a real professional security patrol car, although it is a black car with our company name on the doors (so much better than a magnetic sign).

The car has a nice set of interior map lights which make for easy report writing (which I do a lot of). It also has automatic locks (prevents from accidently locking the keys inside) and automatic windows (which comes in handy).

The car has an AM/FM/CD/Mp3 Player but I tend not to listen to it unless I have a long stretch between patrol stops.

It's got nice pick up overall and is comfortable as I spend anywhere from 6 to 12 hours in it.

The car was into the dealer for a power steering repair where the dealer had to wait almost a week for parts and I was stuck with a 2006 tan Chevrolet Cobalt as a loaner car. It came with AM/FM (no CD player), manual windows, manual door locks and was so NOT a good patrol car substitute.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Wow, been awhile since I saw this thread. To answer NA Crobrier's question a while ago red lights are pretty common here in WA (not sure about the sirens). Officailly security can only have amber or amber / clear. However, most police departments will allow red lights if the following is met. 1) You absolutely positively without a doubt do not drive on a public roadway with them activated (no code runs for security). 2) The vehicle cannot be mistaken for a police car. So no crown vics with full size red lightbars. 3) You get permission. Boeing has red lights and sirens because we have an agreement through the state as well as local municipalities. We also undergo CEVOII training (EVOC type course). This type of privelage is limited to us, a few hospitials (think Harborview), colleges / universities and a few federal installations. The only companies I have seen with redlights on their patrol cars have been Boeing, Harborview security, Everett community college, South Puget Sound Community College, High Alert security, and Securitas.

[Charger]

Wow, been awhile since I saw this thread. To answer NA Crobrier's question a while ago red lights are pretty common here in WA (not sure about the sirens). Officailly security can only have amber or amber / clear. However, most police departments will allow red lights if the following is met. 1) You absolutely positively without a doubt do not drive on a public roadway with them activated (no code runs for security). 2) The vehicle cannot be mistaken for a police car. So no crown vics with full size red lightbars. 3) You get permission. Boeing has red lights and sirens because we have an agreement through the state as well as local municipalities. We also undergo CEVOII training (EVOC type course). This type of privelage is limited to us, a few hospitials (think Harborview), colleges / universities and a few federal installations. The only companies I have seen with redlights on their patrol cars have been Boeing, Harborview security, Everett community college, South Puget Sound Community College, High Alert security, and Securitas.

Agreed. I've been running a red dash light for months now, and the local cops have never even questioned it. Like Michael said, as long as the vehicle is obviously not LEO related, they don't really care.

[Lawson]

... but if they wanted to get snipy there is an RCW, in Title 46 I believe that says no vehicle shall have a forward burning red light other than LE or Rescue.

[Michael Ledgerwood]

... but if they wanted to get snipy there is an RCW, in Title 46 I believe that says no vehicle shall have a forward burning red light other than LE or Rescue.
Your absolutely correct so good relations with police is a must, you abuse it and that department just got themselves a new light. Boeing and some hospiatals are excempt though. Boeing has permission through WSP. A long long time ago, Seattle PD got pissed because Boeing had red lights and sirens. SPD wanted them to take them off. Boeing said fine we will get rid of it but next time you need our Fire Dept to respond to a crash or help out, or to train any of your response personell you can forget it. Needless to say SPD relented.

[Mr. Security]

Your absolutely correct so good relations with police is a must....

This is true with most matters. The police have the discretion to enforce an ordinance or not make an issue out of it. The police here don't bother us over the little stuff. We stay out of their hair, respect their turf, and try not to call them unless we need to. The state police tend to be stricter about things.

[HotelSecurity]

Your absolutely correct so good relations with police is a must, you abuse it and that department just got themselves a new light. Boeing and some hospiatals are excempt though. Boeing has permission through WSP. A long long time ago, Seattle PD got pissed because Boeing had red lights and sirens. SPD wanted them to take them off. Boeing said fine we will get rid of it but next time you need our Fire Dept to respond to a crash or help out, or to train any of your response personell you can forget it. Needless to say SPD relented.

Some suburbs & boroughs of the city of Montreal have Securite Publique (Public Security) units. They patrols the parks & municipal buildings & enforce by-laws. One city had black cars with white doors. They put red flashers on the roof. The Montreal Police forced them to remove them, saying that they looked too much like police cars from the US. They ended up, like most of the other cities & boroughs, painting their units yellow so they couldn't be mistaken as police.

Another borough which had Securite Publique had to change to "Surveillance du Territoire". In this case the Surete du Quebec (Provincial Police) complained that Securite also means safety in French. Securite Publique could be confused as Public Safety, which again is used by some police forces.

[1stWatch]

Some suburbs & boroughs of the city of Montreal have Securite Publique (Public Security) units. They patrols the parks & municipal buildings & enforce by-laws. One city had black cars with white doors. They put red flashers on the roof. The Montreal Police forced them to remove them, saying that they looked too much like police cars from the US. They ended up, like most of the other cities & boroughs, painting their units yellow so they couldn't be mistaken as police.

Another borough which had Securite Publique had to change to "Surveillance du Territoire". In this case the Surete du Quebec (Provincial Police) complained that Securite also means safety in French. Securite Publique could be confused as Public Safety, which again is used by some police forces.

Yellow? Gross. Do they get mistaken for Yellow Taxi?

[Mr. Security]

Yellow? Gross. Do they get mistaken for Yellow Taxi?

That's what I was thinking. I guess if you want to work undercover and blend in with traffic, then that would be a great color for NYC. ;)

[Tennsix]

That's what I was thinking. I guess if you want to work undercover and blend in with traffic, then that would be a great color for NYC. ;)
I have seen the state police drive yellow DOT pick-up trucks to on the interstate. Shooting fish a in a barrell! :D

[Mr. Security]

I have seen the state police drive yellow DOT pick-up trucks to on the interstate. Shooting fish a in a barrell! :D

The police should do more of that. I’ve seen some departments that use a bucket truck to appear like they are working on telephone poles, when in reality, they are using radar/laser to bust speeders with officers posted down the road. Another one bites the dust, and another one.......... :p

[Michael Ledgerwood]

When the Washington State Patrol first formed their aggressive driving team they started by using patrol cars disguised as taxis. It was interesting to see a taxi cab with red and blue lights flashing. I don't think they use the taxis anymore but they use just about everything else - Volvos, Impalas, Suburban / Tahoe, various pickups, camaros, corvettes, mustangs, etc.

[Lawson]

Yeah, I havent seen any of them in Taxis lately... but WA Traffic Safety Commission just developed the "TACT" program, which is "Ticketing Aggresive Cars and Trucks". The WSP Teams up with Local agencies and they drive up and down the freeway in unmarked cars... a Couple Troopers ride in Semi-Trucks so they can oversee the freeway and call out violations such as following too close, driving in the left lane with a trailer, semis in left lane, obvious speeding violations, people cutting people off, then the unmarkeds go after them.

[Mr. Security]

Yeah, I havent seen any of them in Taxis lately... but WA Traffic Safety Commission just developed the "TACT" program, which is "Ticketing Aggresive Cars and Trucks". The WSP Teams up with Local agencies and they drive up and down the freeway in unmarked cars... a Couple Troopers ride in Semi-Trucks so they can oversee the freeway and call out violations such as following too close, driving in the left lane with a trailer, semis in left lane, obvious speeding violations, people cutting people off, then the unmarkeds go after them.

It's a never-ending battle. I think Germany's autobahn is interesting. Apparently, they have all kinds of moving violation detection equipment and once a driver violates the traffic code, a picture of the license plate is taken and the owner receives a ticket. Their detectors are more sophisticated than the cameras installed at some intersections here in the U.S.

Like I've said, $$$$ has a way of getting people's attention when all else fails. :)

[Michael Ledgerwood]

Yeah, I havent seen any of them in Taxis lately... but WA Traffic Safety Commission just developed the "TACT" program, which is "Ticketing Aggresive Cars and Trucks". The WSP Teams up with Local agencies and they drive up and down the freeway in unmarked cars... a Couple Troopers ride in Semi-Trucks so they can oversee the freeway and call out violations such as following too close, driving in the left lane with a trailer, semis in left lane, obvious speeding violations, people cutting people off, then the unmarkeds go after them.

Boeing actually started that. The transportation guys that you see driving the Boeing semi trucks around got tired of the crappy drivers and called the state patrol. Boeing suggested a trooper ride along and WSP agreed. The program was successful and I think it might be going national. Some of the boeing trucks drive around with a huge WSP logo emblazoned on their side along with a safety slogan.

[Lawson]

WSP has less to do with it, it is more of a WTSC program than it is WSP. I do not think it effects the State Patrol budget... i.e. the overtime to local and county patrol officers is coming out of Traffic Safety commission, not state patrol.

[N. A. Corbier]

That's what I was thinking. I guess if you want to work undercover and blend in with traffic, then that would be a great color for NYC. ;)

I remember seeing squads for the NYC Taxi Commission that were real taxis with red and blue lights, painted identical to NYC Taxis, except above the fare rate (they must of posted it to show what it should be) it said POLICE VEHICLE - NOT FOR HIRE or some such thing.

Who can find a picture of em?

[HotelSecurity]

Montreal Police used photo radar about 20 years ago. The camera would take a photo of the car, a close up of the license plate & a photo of the radar read-out. They would then mail you a ticket. This was stopped when the points system for driver's licenses was started. There was no way of knowing who was driving the vehicle. You could not take the points off the driver's license of the owner if it was not him driving.

[Tennsix]

It's a never-ending battle. I think Germany's autobahn is interesting. Apparently, they have all kinds of moving violation detection equipment and once a driver violates the traffic code, a picture of the license plate is taken and the owner receives a ticket. Their detectors are more sophisticated than the cameras installed at some intersections here in the U.S.

Like I've said, $$$$ has a way of getting people's attention when all else fails. :)
I think the US would have more sophisticated traffic surveillance equipment but the public would go on about “Big Brother”.

[Night Shift]

2004 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor

[EMTGuard]

Anyone got photos? I posted mine earlier. Lets see your rides.

[OccamsRazor]

I think this one has them all beat...Saw this today, in the upscale housing area where a friend of the family lives. Keep in mind the houses there run $800k on the very low end. Yes, that's a Land Rover Discovery...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Wilrobnson/29Apr-1.jpg

[knotquiteawake]

That would be a great patrol vehicle, esp. if your duties involve giving a lot of safety escourts to people

[N. A. Corbier]

That would be a great patrol vehicle, esp. if your duties involve giving a lot of safety escourts to people

The concept of putting anyone but an employee of the company, even a client's employee, in a patrol vehicle still scares me. Your insurance isn't going to cover that.

[HotelSecurity]

Here's what I want! (On 2nd thought with the price of gas these days!!) http://policecanada.policecanada.org/PrivateSecurity/HauteSecuriteQC001_PB.jpg

[N. A. Corbier]

At least its not an H2. :)

[Echos13]

At least its not an H2. :)

Well that is diesel; and better miles I guess. But I do like the H3.

My company given 4-runner is ready for the great toyo show room in the sky soon. The engine kicks butt (same as whats in the supra) but everything attached to it is falling apart.

[Mr. Security]

Here's what I want! (On 2nd thought with the price of gas these days!!) http://policecanada.policecanada.org/PrivateSecurity/HauteSecuriteQC001_PB.jpg

As long as it comes with armor. :)

[T202]

We drive a Ford Escape Hybrid.

[Mr. Security]

GALLS SP290 - DutyPro™ Leather Oxfords

[Jackhole]

GALLS SP290 - DutyPro� Leather Oxfords
LOL :D

But seriously, do you like the Galls brand footwear? I always hated it, they were too stiff, never fit right (I have narrow feet) and never broke in right. I've tried a few different styles over the years.

[Mall Director]

We run a Subaru Forestor.. I can remember back when I first took over this department, and thinking to myself when I first walked in.. "what the @$!@ is that? They have an oversized stationwagon!?!?!", then when I was doing the insurance for it, they classify it as an S.U.V., and i still was puzzled.. I cant complain though.. We can haul subjects in it nicely!

[Jackhole]

We run a Subaru Forestor.. I can remember back when I first took over this department, and thinking to myself when I first walked in.. "what the @$!@ is that? They have an oversized stationwagon!?!?!", then when I was doing the insurance for it, they classify it as an S.U.V., and i still was puzzled.. I cant complain though.. We can haul subjects in it nicely!
You only have one vehicle? How large is your mall? When I worked mall security we had 3 vehicles - 2 S-10 pickups and an Impala.

[histfan71]

We get to drive Ford Windstar minivans! Yes, we are the soccer mom patrol! Those vehicles do not do much for our credibility. I tried to attach a picture but I couldn't figure out how to do it.

[Jackhole]

We get to drive Ford Windstar minivans! Yes, we are the soccer mom patrol! Those vehicles do not do much for our credibility. I tried to attach a picture but I couldn't figure out how to do it.
http://www.upshizzle.com/uploader.php

[histfan71]

Thanks for the link. Here is a picture of the infamous KPD minivan patrol units. Although they cannot be seen from this angle, the minivans are fully equipped with red and blue LED lights mounted in the front and rear windows and have a siren/PA system.


http://www.upshizzle.com/gallery/albums/uploaded/8.06/patrolcar_1_1.JPG

[Charger]

Wow, man... No offense intended, of course... But I almost prefer my chevrolegs... ;)

[Jackhole]

Wow, man... No offense intended, of course... But I almost prefer my chevrolegs... ;)
We have a couple of vans, too. :o

[FederalSecurity]

We have a few Explorers, a few Trailblazers, and a couple of Tahoes. All

of them 2004 or newer.

[SecureTN]

2003 Jeep Liberty Sport, CD player (still has the fuse)Professional Decaling, Midsize green light bar. I prefer S&W or Peerless cuffs.

[Mall Director]

You only have one vehicle? How large is your mall? When I worked mall security we had 3 vehicles - 2 S-10 pickups and an Impala.

Its a pretty good sized one.. Much bigger than the one I came from. Some of our other corporate malls have five to seven patrol vehicles, and some are even BMW's.. Sadly, I am not so privilaged. The mall I am at now is rated lower, where the other malls that have the nice ones, and many, are rated higher.. I am in a bad demographic area, which also constitutes the high levels of violence, and arrests by my staff.

(a little secret though: I would rather be at a mall with lower ratings, and more crime, than the high rated ones, and no crime.. My days would be so boring, so if it means I get only one patrol car.. thats fine with me! LOL)

[SD Security]

I am a Director at a mall too. We have one Yamaha golf cart and one Toyota Tacoma.

[S Messina]

We use Ford Explorers, a Ford Escape and have a Hummer H1 that is used for special events & certain accounts. We also have a golf card & 2 G.E.M.'s all with amber lightbars. Upper management are issued Hummer H2's.

http://www.presidentialprotective.com

[Arrowslinger]

http://users.adelphia.net/~amuseum/images/gemcar.jpg

We use this, gem car electric car :mad:

I use this :D

http://home.comcast.net/~arrowslinger/Dscf0247.jpg

My personal truck, I do not like a thing about that dang electric car.

[N. A. Corbier]

I don't mind the Gem cars. I would deploy them over a golf cart in a heart beat. Especially since a GEM is street legal, and a golf cart usually isn't.

That said, I'd put hard doors on a Gem car. :) I hate being rained on.

[copelandamuffy]

Switching from Ford Escorts to KIA Rio
Thank Heaven
You do know what Ford stands for backwards?

DRIVER RETURNS ON FOOT

forward?

FOUND ON THE ROAD DEAD
FIX OR REPAIR DAILY


fIXED OVER REBATE DODGE

[EMTGuard]

Talking about returning on foot....
Last night I went out on patrol around the steel mill. Our usual patrol vehicle, a jeek cherokee, has been broke down for 2 weeks. So for the patrol I was out driving around in the medical van. Wouldn't you know, I got to the very back, furtherest place from the guard shack, in the whole plant and the drivers front tire on the van went flat. No spare tire. I pulled it off to the side, grabbed the medical bags out the back (O2 tank, AED, BLS supplies) and started walking. :mad:
Luckily we didn't have any medical emergencies and maintiance came in to work about the time I got off shift. The van should be up and running again when I go in this evening.

[EMTGuard]

I just realized that while I posted photos of our medical van on page 1 of this thread I havn't posted pics of the crappy Jeep we use when it's not in the shop.
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/9544/patroljeepcopyvg8.jpg

[VertigoODO]

OK, heres our cars, well this is my take home car. Yes everything works, minus the siren tones.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/Vertigo1rg1/Sales/P1000463.jpg

[VertigoODO]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/Vertigo1rg1/Sales/P1000465.jpg

[VertigoODO]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/Vertigo1rg1/Sales/P1000467.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/Vertigo1rg1/Sales/P1000468.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/Vertigo1rg1/Sales/Picture005.jpg

[BUCKSHOT]

For security you have a lot of equipment in that car. What do you use the computer for?

[EMTGuard]

Heck of a company name.
"Off Duty"? Who decided on that name? If you work for Off Duty then when are you on duty?

CLIENT- Have you checked the offices yet?
YOU- Man, can't you see I'm Off Duty?

CLIENT- I need you to go unlock a warehouse for a repair crew.
YOU- Tell it to someone who's not Off Duty.

:D :D

[Special Investigator]

Currently, a unmarked Chevy S-10 Blazer.

[N. A. Corbier]

Off Duty Officers, Inc. is a national company that provides off-duty (active or retired) police officers for security services. Their definition of police officer includes reservists and federal officers.

[N. A. Corbier]

For security you have a lot of equipment in that car. What do you use the computer for?

Not much equipment in there at all... One Federal Signal lightbar/siren controller, one Motorola or Panasonic PDRC, and that looks to be it.

Many security companies are going to computers now. Allows you to look up information through databases, file reports via computer program (clients like it when they don't have to read a guard's illegible handwriting), and do administrative tasks on the PCs.

[EMTGuard]

Off Duty Officers, Inc. is a national company that provides off-duty (active or retired) police officers for security services. Their definition of police officer includes reservists and federal officers.
AAaaahhhhh. That clears it up some. Sounds like a good deal for a client who wants a security company which provides Security Officers with some experiance in law enforcement. It's probably cheaper than using a Rent-A-Cop program through the local Police Department.
I wonder if there is ever an issue with employees working for Off Duty being able to sepearate their Security requirements from what they learned and are used to doing as on duty cops. As SOs they may see something that they will have to react differently to than they would if they were acting as police officers. Face it. While many of our duties are similar, Security work is different form Police work. At least with a Rent-A-Cop Officer you get a Police Officer, in a Police uniform, driving a police car which can act as a POLICE OFFICER as opposed to a Security Officer.

[VertigoODO]

Off Duty Officers, Inc. is a national company that provides off-duty (active or retired) police officers for security services. Their definition of police officer includes reservists and federal officers.

Bingo!!!! Yes thats us. We have offices now in several states. As a matter of a fact I just got back from Arizona. We hire Active Police Officers, Reserves with 4 years or more, or Police Officers that resigned but have more than 10 years experience. Oh ya and of course Grandpa, ya those retired guys, lol, but they must have 20 years experience on the force. We hire federals as well.

EMTGuard, most clients prefer this to regular officers. Unfortunately there are companies that under bid at like $13.00 hour and pay a guard $6.75 hour. So you get a ****ty guard of course. That opens the door for us when the client cant take it anymore. But again, yes thats our company. Anyone want a job? LOL, jk!!

[N. A. Corbier]

AAaaahhhhh. That clears it up some. Sounds like a good deal for a client who wants a security company which provides Security Officers with some experiance in law enforcement. It's probably cheaper than using a Rent-A-Cop program through the local Police Department.
I wonder if there is ever an issue with employees working for Off Duty being able to sepearate their Security requirements from what they learned and are used to doing as on duty cops. As SOs they may see something that they will have to react differently to than they would if they were acting as police officers. Face it. While many of our duties are similar, Security work is different form Police work. At least with a Rent-A-Cop Officer you get a Police Officer, in a Police uniform, driving a police car which can act as a POLICE OFFICER as opposed to a Security Officer.

I used to deprogram police officers who came to work for my company. Trying to arrest for non-BOP misdemeanors, etc. Its like, "Dude. You're not a cop, stop that, or the real cops are going to beat on you for an hour or three."

[VertigoODO]

Yes most of ours must go through training for a week before they can work. However, most PD's out here are very cooperative and never complain when we do make an arrest.

[N. A. Corbier]

Yes most of ours must go through training for a week before they can work. However, most PD's out here are very cooperative and never complain when we do make an arrest.

You also have a statute that authorizes private citizens to make arrests for violations of misdemeanor offenses committed in their presence, and felonies for probable cause.

Some states, most states, do not codify such things, and most LEOs are trained that only the public police may ever make an arrest. When citizen's arrest is discussed, they believe that this only applies to LEOs who are out of their jurisdiction - not the general public.

Even though they lose their LEO powers once leaving their jurisdiction and become private citizens.

Granted, California grants statewide enforcement authority to all peace officers.

[Special Investigator]

You also have a statute that authorizes private citizens to make arrests for violations of misdemeanor offenses committed in their presence, and felonies for probable cause.



http://www.texasminutemen.org/forum/images/smilies/Groaner.gif WRONG! You cannot make a citizens arrest for a misdemeanor offense in Wisconsin.

[T202]

This is a case law pertaining to "Breach of Peace" and "Citizens Arrest" in Wisconsin.

http://www.wisbar.org/res/capp/2004/03-3058.htm

[Mr. Security]

This is a case law pertaining to "Breach of Peace" and "Citizens Arrest" in Wisconsin.

http://www.wisbar.org/res/capp/2004/03-3058.htm

That favors Nathan's position based on what I read. Special Investigator, what say you?

[T202]

Here's an interesting Madison PD Legal Update from 2005.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Taw7e4SKw3QJ:www.ci.madison.wi.us/POLICE/PDF_Files/Spring%25202005.pdf+wisconsin+breach+of+peace+defi nition&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

[Mr. Security]

Here's an interesting Madison PD Legal Update from 2005.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Taw7e4SKw3QJ:www.ci.madison.wi.us/POLICE/PDF_Files/Spring%25202005.pdf+wisconsin+breach+of+peace+defi nition&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

Interesting. Although citizen's arrest is ambiguously explained, perhaps intentionally so, there is case law to defend such a course of action. Nevertheless, it seems prudent to reserve an actual arrest for felony crimes in order to avoid defending yourself in a court of law. After all, you might be found not guilty, but the State isn't going to pay your legal bills. Not to mention the expense incurred fighting in civil court.

[T202]

The water is a little murky in Wisconsin.

[Mr. Security]

The water is a little murky in Wisconsin.

That's it in a nutshell. I don't think that Wisconsin is the only state like that either. I'll stick to felony arrests and even then, it will only be a last resort.

[N. A. Corbier]

If citizen's arrest for breach of the peace is illegal, then there are several police officers and deputies who did not have arrest authority in their jurisdiction who need to go to jail for unlawful detainment.

I'll need to find the cases in LexisNexis, but I learned about Wisconsin's citizen's arrest caselaw from Florida's citizen's arrest caselaw, which references it liberally.

Till then, I'm gonna grab my copy of the Wisconsin Private Investigation and Security Guard Code Book. And link to it...

http://drl.wi.gov/boards/ral/code/codebook.pdf

Page 112, first column...

You are also authorized by law to make a "citizen's arrest". Every
citizen has the authority to arrest a person he or she has probable
cause to believe is guilty of a felony he or she knows has been
committed. A citizen may arrest a person who is committing a breach of the peace in his or her presence. Breach of the peace is an act which involves, threatens or incites violence.

A citizen making an arrest must clearly indicate his or her intention to the other person. He or she must indicate for what offense the arrest is being made. As soon as possible, he or she must tum over custody of the person to a peace officer. If these requirements are not met, the citizen may be liable for false imprisonment. In reality, you will seldom, if ever, use this "citizen's arrest" authority. It is customary and safer for all persons involved to leave the arrest to the police.

There is the standard "never do this" disclaimer because they'd be beaten with sharp sticks by the police unions if it wasn't there, but it IS there.

A breach of the peace is any offense that threatens or incites violence, according to Wisconsin code. DUI is a breach of the peace, under various case laws, as there's the element of violence (ramming into people, killing them, running them off the road in an 'accident')

This is why several law enforcement officers who have no jurisdiction outside of their municipal area in Wisconsin have gotten away with making arrests for people who are DUI.

Special Investigator is the second police officer who has said, "You're full of sh-" about this, then reviewed the case law and went, "Wow. I was told to arrest a security guard if they ever tried to arrest anyone." They then realized that this means they themselves have "certain powers" outside of their jursidictional boundries.

[N. A. Corbier]

That's it in a nutshell. I don't think that Wisconsin is the only state like that either. I'll stick to felony arrests and even then, it will only be a last resort.

Keep in mind there are several companies in this state that routinely make arrests for breaches of the peace (disorderly conduct), and their respective public police agencies actually like them. I know, I've asked the cops involved, and they freakin LOVE their "private police" counterparts cause it means less work for them.

[Special Investigator]

Keep in mind there are several companies in this state that routinely make arrests for breaches of the peace (disorderly conduct), and their respective public police agencies actually like them.
That would depend on the seroiusness of the offense. You cannot make a citizens arrest for trespassing for example.


I know, I've asked the cops involved, and they freakin LOVE their "private police" counterparts cause it means less work for them.
I find that hard to believe. Most don't want you to do their job. If they do, then they are lazy cops. And again, "private police" are illegal in WI. Anyone who calls themselves private police can be accused of inpersanation.


Breach of the peace is an act which involves, threatens or incites violence.

It means just that. A act of violence and you MUST WITNESS the act.

Too many security persons around these parts get into trouble when they step over their authority. I've seen many a security persons place citizens under citizens arrest and then get sued by the folks they arrest/detain. Your walking on egg shells when you invoke the citizen arrest thing. You must be careful when you do.


:D Cheers

[N. A. Corbier]

http://drl.wi.gov/drl/drllookup/LicenseLookupServlet?page=business_details&searchtype=entity&crednum=16049&credtype=62
Name: JP DEE INC,
License number: 16049
Location:
KENOSHA, WI 53143

Profession: Private Detective Agency (62)

Current through: 31-AUG-2007
Status: ACTIVE
Eligible to practice: YES
Granted on: 14-MAR-2000
Discipline: No
Speciality description: Not applicable
Doing Business As: KENOSHA PRIVATE POLICE & DIVISIONS

...

The Frederick Group has recently bought Schmitt Security Police, so they're now calling themselves "Schmitt Protective Services a division of the Federick Group."

This means I'll just go out tomorrow and get pictures of their patrol cars that say "SCHMITT SECURITY POLICE" on them.

[Mr. Security]

Keep in mind there are several companies in this state that routinely make arrests for breaches of the peace (disorderly conduct), and their respective public police agencies actually like them. I know, I've asked the cops involved, and they freakin LOVE their "private police" counterparts cause it means less work for them.

I believe you Nathan. I'm not saying it's illegal. In fact, case law has been used to substantiate it. What I am saying is that a prosecutor could try to make an issue out of it since the wording is not crystal clear. The wise thing to do is make sure that you have the backing of the local DA before you arrest on a misdemeanor. If so, no problem.

[N. A. Corbier]

I believe you Nathan. I'm not saying it's illegal. In fact, case law has been used to substantiate it. What I am saying is that a prosecutor could try to make an issue out of it since the wording is not crystal clear. The wise thing to do is make sure that you have the backing of the local DA before you arrest on a misdemeanor. If so, no problem.

Indeed, unless you're company specifically advertises itself as private law enforcement services (and some do in this state), you won't be enforcing laws through citizen's arrest. Those that do usually have the blessing of their local DA (who is elected), their sheriff (who is elected), and their police department (who probably has half the force working for you part time for more hours.)

One that was here that comes to mind is Metro Racine Safety Enforcement. They don't call themselves private police, but they run red lights to the front, they make arrests, they work with the local police, and some of the guys who work for them are cops.

[officergossman]

When I worked security at coal mines during a layoff, we drove "white chevy 4x4 trucks" which was fun to take off road when chasing kids on ATVs :D

I drove a ford focus when i did walmart security...hated it! :(

[cp73]

As far as vehicles:

I've driven just about everything, from a beat up, POS Suburban that was literally falling apart around me, to brand new Impalas, to Quads. Currently, we're using 2004 Jeep Liberty (I do NOT recommend these things..."trail rated" my rear. They get stuck in a gob of spit.). We also have two Trek mountain bikes, and a 2006 Yamaha Rhino 660.

As far as the "powers of arrest" question:

I LOVE Nevada.

NRS 171.126 Arrest by private person. A private person may arrest another:
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.
(Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)

Personally, I wouldn't try this one, but:

NRS 171.138 Breaking open door or window: Making arrest. To make an arrest, a private person, if the offense is a felony, and in all cases a peace officer, may break open a door or window of the house, structure or other place of concealment in which the person to be arrested is, or in which there is reasonable grounds for believing him to be, after having demanded admittance and explained the purpose for which admittance is desired.
(Added to NRS by 1967, 1402; A 1983, 244)

NRS 171.134 Escape or rescue of arrested person: Pursuit and retaking at any time and place in State. If a person arrested escapes or is rescued, the person from whose custody he escaped or was rescued may immediately pursue and retake him at any time and in any place within the State.
(Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)


NRS 171.144 Breaking open door or window: Retaking person arrested. To retake a person arrested who has escaped or been rescued, the person pursuing may break open an outer or inner door or window of a dwelling house, structure or other place of concealment, if, after notice of his intention, he is refused admittance.
(Added to NRS by 1967, 1402)

[N. A. Corbier]

Most states that codify arrest give private citizens the same powers as LEOs in use of force and retaking of escaped prisoners. Why? Because if the state doesn't empower LEOs to have statewide jurisdiction, then a LEO who takes action outside of their jurisdiction has to use the same powers available to the rest of us. :)

[ocp]

Our department uses Crown Vics, they are marked with a door badge and lettering, the lightbars are purple to the front, and red / amber to the rear. also our Chief has installed l.e.d. bars in the back window. if i can figure out how to up load an image, i would show you. (i am new to this) ;)

[ocp]

I want to place a pic of our patrol cars on this forum, can't figure it out. i am new to this.

[Lawson]

I want to place a pic of our patrol cars on this forum, can't figure it out. i am new to this.

If it is saved on your computer, go to www.tinypic.com, then upload the photo. Copy the link that resembes this (IMG)www.tinypic.com/2j5245kl.jpg(/IMG) and paste that into your post. If the photo is already on the net, just post the URL with the IMG brackets around it. Note: replace the () with [ ]

[ocp]

this pic was taken with a video cam, so the pix are low. as you can see our patrol cars do not use green in the lightbar. we are a "in-house" department, our vehicles only operate on the owners property. contract security here in Columbus can only us green or amber. we do not have cages in the cars, but we do have computers, L.E.D. lighting, spotlights, and P.A. systems. we use UHF radios, and our computers just have the paperwork and forms that we use in the field ( no records check or leads).

[ocp]

incase you are wondering how we can use this set up with our vehicles. we have letters from the Dept. of Public Safety here in Columbus. we do get alot of contract security officers or smaller police dept. drive up to us and say "you cant have that". all we do is pull out the letter, copy of the laws, and advise them they are on our property, and then send them on their way. i do think that all forms of security patrol department should be able to use anything but maybe blue lights on their vehicles. yes we are not law enforcement, but we see more of the crime and deal with more criminals then alot of Police officers do. the envroment that i patrol in is mostly HUD houseing, and inner-city. the local Police officers in our area are too busy because they are under staffed, so most of the crimnals in my area see Secuirty alot more then they see the Police. futhermore, because of the under staffed local police department, you see less and less of those Police officers working extra duty at stores, apartments, and so forth. this forces the owners of these properties to hire private security to fill in for the short fall. a good example of this will be this Satuday when OSU plays Michigan, all Columbus Officers have to work 12 hour shifts, and will be patrolling a small part of our city ( around the OSU campus). so this leaves the rest of our city short of responding officers. :eek:

[N. A. Corbier]

What is that, red and red, or red and blue?

[ocp]

if you were asking about the lightbar, its all purple to the front (the white takedown lights dont flash), the rear is red with amber flashers. we are looking at new L.E.D bars here soon, our chief is looking at the fronts being green / white, and keeping the rear the same.

[VertigoODO]

if you were asking about the lightbar, its all purple to the front (the white takedown lights dont flash), the rear is red with amber flashers. we are looking at new L.E.D bars here soon, our chief is looking at the fronts being green / white, and keeping the rear the same.

Wow, time for me to move to Ohio, NICE!!!

[N. A. Corbier]

Purple would be very, very, strange to see. I have never seen purple strobes.

[ocp]

the only issues with the purple is at night, sometimes law enforcement will think the lightbar is blue when the bar is off. during the day no problem. 99% of the time we don't have any issues, as long as we don't run any of the lighting on the city streets. we have been running our patrol vehicles this way for 4 years, and now we are starting to see other patrol services in the area going with purple mostly in-house departments.

one issue that the local police has advised us on and it has nothing to do with my department, is that there is one or two security officers here in Columbus that have been making traffic stops or pulling cars over. this is making the other departments/companies look bad.

do any of you on this forum have this problem in your area now or in the past?

[Charger]

Unfortunately, yes... This is the key thing that tends to make LEOs upset about security vehicles that have lightbars... All it takes is a few bad apples, ya know? There's one town in particular that had such a large problem with it, that they actually passed a city ordinance making rooftop lightbars illegal to own by any private security provider... And actually allows the LEOs to CONFISCATE the bar if they see one.... Forced all the companies that operate in that area to switch to a slick-top setup.... A little excessive in my opinion, but I can understand where they're coming from.

[VertigoODO]

Unfortunately, yes... This is the key thing that tends to make LEOs upset about security vehicles that have lightbars... All it takes is a few bad apples, ya know? There's one town in particular that had such a large problem with it, that they actually passed a city ordinance making rooftop lightbars illegal to own by any private security provider... And actually allows the LEOs to CONFISCATE the bar if they see one.... Forced all the companies that operate in that area to switch to a slick-top setup.... A little excessive in my opinion, but I can understand where they're coming from.


LOL, as a matter of a fact yes, check out this link. These guys practice it, and an emplyee of theres, named Sands pulled over a judge recently. Assholes, they cause so many problems and we are shocked that they havent been shut down as of yet.

http://www.nationalpublicsafety.com/

[Jackhole]

if you were asking about the lightbar, its all purple to the front (the white takedown lights dont flash), the rear is red with amber flashers. we are looking at new L.E.D bars here soon, our chief is looking at the fronts being green / white, and keeping the rear the same.
FYI, purple lights are for funeral processions.

[davis002]

I apologize for the dark picture, but it gives you an idea. Lightbar is clear/amber to the front, and red/amber to the rear.

[Charger]

LOL, as a matter of a fact yes, check out this link. These guys practice it, and an emplyee of theres, named Sands pulled over a judge recently. Assholes, they cause so many problems and we are shocked that they havent been shut down as of yet.

http://www.nationalpublicsafety.com/


Ick, freeservers (aka ad-infested) page.. ;) Do my eyes deceive me, or do they have red/blue on the front of that motorcycle?

Davis002: Sweet lookin ride ;)

[Lawson]

I apologize for the dark picture, but it gives you an idea. Lightbar is clear/amber to the front, and red to the rear.
Dayum are you hiring? :D

[WKSecurity]

Willis-Knighton got some new 06 impalas a while back. badged-up exactly like Shreveport Police, but instead of them saying Shreveport police, it says Willis-Knighton Police. Got a full lightbar,strobes, Code 3 siren, PA system...the works. I'll get a picture up ASAP.

[N. A. Corbier]

Ick, freeservers (aka ad-infested) page.. ;) Do my eyes deceive me, or do they have red/blue on the front of that motorcycle?

Davis002: Sweet lookin ride ;)

Stock photo, most likely.

[N. A. Corbier]

FYI, purple lights are for funeral processions.

Not in every state, though. Just like green is not for NIMS Command Vehicles in every state.

[Echos13]

Purple would be very, very, strange to see. I have never seen purple strobes.

Have not seen anything in Florida yet. Though the new LED FHP lights do have a slight tint of purple to them at an angle. The Polk County Sheriff Office have new Chevys with these all blue LEDs in-cased in an all clear housing. It looks really weird. But man is it bright!

[Jackhole]

Not in every state, though. Just like green is not for NIMS Command Vehicles in every state.
I thought that was a universal thing. I know purple is for funeral processions in NY, but the V&T law makes no mention of purple lights.

[Jackhole]

Have not seen anything in Florida yet. Though the new LED FHP lights do have a slight tint of purple to them at an angle. The Polk County Sheriff Office have new Chevys with these all blue LEDs in-cased in an all clear housing. It looks really weird. But man is it bright!
They're probably Whelen Libertys. We have those (all blue) and they're SUPER bright. :D

[N. A. Corbier]

I'll see if I can get any of the polk guys to give me a pic of their Liberties.

I have a client who has Whelen LFLs in Green. Whelen says that they don't make them in green, he had to special order the lightbars, because really nobody uses Green in their primary customer base.

[SecTrainer]

Some of the LED bars are "stealthy" in that it's impossible to tell what color they are when not operating (they just look clear, basically, even though they might be blue, red, white, amber or green when operating).

I have a different take on all of this, probably, than most. When I was acting chief of a small PD, I was very happy (for the most part) to have security patrols running around town, and the more like police cars they appeared to be, the MORE I liked it. In other words, they somewhat made up for my own small force of two units in terms of presenting a "protection presence" to the bad guys that might be cruising through town looking for trouble and couldn't tell from any distance whether they were looking at a security or a police unit.

We had very good relations with the security officers and even considered giving some of them special commissions...until the city attorney (those darned attorneys) nixed the idea for liability reasons.

Given the climate in some communities, however, I'd be very tempted just to go with well-marked slick tops. With spotlights, deck bar, corner strobes, wigwags, etc., the point still gets across if the car itself is commonly used in LE and isn't some kind of a clown car like a VW bug or something. Most security venues can do well with this kind of gear and don't need a bar, IMHO. I'd rather spend the money on night vision gear, in-car video and computer gear anyway.

Can consider all white or even all black, all navy, etc. There are also a lot of two-tone combinations that provide a "protective" appearance w/o stepping on the black-and-whites' turf. Blue/gold with gold shield, for instance. There's also a very dark shade of green - *almost* black - that together with white looks a lot like B&W at night, but does avoid actually being a B&W.

On a different topic, I can't for the life of me understand why security companies - and their insurance carriers - don't get together and hammer the state legislatures to eliminate, by specific legislation, the ambiguities about security arrest and detainment powers. The only people that benefit from these ambiguities persisting are lawyers.

[N. A. Corbier]

Because the largest security companies do not want anyone but a "Security Police Officer" (i.e. a contract security guard given arrest powers by some federal agency) performing arrests. If they perform arrests or detainments, they open themselves up to liability. They have to increase training. It cuts into their profit margin, basically, because the clients will start realizing that they can start arresting, and the clients will start putting it into the contracts.

Remember, most contracts specifically state that the contractor will provide an employee to patrol, deter, observe, and report. They are not provided for the purposes of intervening, providing "security," or providing "protection."

Basically, the client is paying for an untrained (or in some states, minimally trained) observer. Arrest and detention powers would require additional training that costs money, money that the client won't pay and that comes out of the profit of the security companies.

Companies have always been of the position, "If you want people arrested, give our guards the same powers as a police officer, so they have complete immunity to prosecution like one." Lowers the liability greatly when you have complete immunity under the Good Faith Doctrine to anything short of willfull negligence or excessive force.

[SecTrainer]

Yes, I understand all that. My point is that legislative clarity is needed in many states even regarding "plain vanilla" (John Q. Public) citizen arrest powers, and while this vagueness doesn't cause any problems for the average citizen who never needs to make an arrest, the lack of clarity does cause enormous problems for security companies, officers and their insurers.

It's also no good anymore for security companies to tell their officers "Well, just don't make an arrest", either, because there is also potential liability in taking that approach, should a situation arise in which a security officer may reasonably be found to have a duty to act...just as liability would attach if the officer failed to act upon the discovery of a fire breaking out. Whether simple "reporting" will be found by a jury to satisfy the duty to act - especially if someone is subsequently harmed - is growing more and more doubtful. Failure to act where there is a duty to do so and where such failure is the proximal cause of harm does constitute a tort in every state in the union.

Nor are the client's wishes controlling in this regard. Regardless of what the client wishes to do in the way of restricting security activities to "observe-and-report-only", other stakeholders such as customers, visitors and employees have legally-recognized expectations as well. There is abundant security case law to the effect that these stakeholders' expectations will be regarded as being as valid as those of the entity that contracts for security.

In short, it's time to pull our heads out of the sand and get the state legislatures that have not done so to clarify citizen arrest powers - whether very limited or very broad is up to them - so that the citizens (security officers) who do need such clarity have it.

[Bill Warnock]

As long as money is driving the clattering train, nothing will change. Clients and security companies are guided by the principle of "calculated risk." That will change, has changed and will continue to change given post 9/11.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[officergossman]

lol...some of these car pictures are making me jealous as I love Crown Vics...good car for security and storm chasing as well ;)

[WISecurityGuy]

This is my first post. I have been reading your posts regarding WI laws as they pertain to security officer arrests/detainments. In September of 2004, the Milwaukee Police Department decided that they would not respond to residential and commercial burglar alarms. It was up to each individual alarm install company to contract with a security guard company and have them provide a "verified response." Much commotion has come up because of this. This year alone, our officers have "detained" over 5 burglars while checking these burglar alarms. Our company is one of the main providers of this service in Milwaukee, responding to over 1200 alarms per month. As stated in one of the earlier posts, in a quote from the DRL, an officer may only detain a person long enough to call the police and wait for police response. We have received many praises from police as well as the Chief herself.

Another example of our company when it comes to detainments is the extensive work we do for the "high-risk" clubs that we have in the inner city. We provide a risky service providing armed OUTSIDE security patrols for many clubs. There is usually an incident once or twice at minimum throughout all the clubs where we have to detain a person until the police arrive. Just this last Thursday at one of the clubs, 2 of our officers drew down on a person who had a gun in the car, dragged him out of the vehicle and called the police. A gun was recovered, and those two officers have a meeting next week with the Captain of that district. Apparently he will be recommending them for a citizens award for stopping a potentially fatal incident.

It goes to say that depending where in Wisconsin you are talking about, each department has their certain views on private security. The smaller departments sometimes feel like security is stepping on their toes, doing their jobs. Most larger departments have major lazy officers who are always looking at how to avoid writing any reports. However, this still does not change the fact that if there is a crime being committed, we as security guards should at least detain the person until the police arrive. It is not considered as an arrest, ever. The police are the ones who make that decision, not us.

Also, just to clarify the private police question. In Milwaukee, there are a few companies that have the word "Police" in them. Blue Knight Police is one that is still in business. There is also one that is no longer in business, but had POLICE plastered all over their cars. Metropolitin Police Services of America. They went out of business, however it was not because of their red lights and police decals on their cars.

Finally, our company squad cars. In our company, all security guards drive 2001-2005 Crown Victorias (we have 6). The Supervisors (Sgts.) drive Explorers (2), and our transport officers drive a 1997 extended Dodge Van (it has 3 separations in it to keep the transportees separated) and a 2003 GMC Astro van (also with 2 separations in it). The chief and asst. chief drive unmarked crown vics. Their cars are the only ones with siren and lights. They only have the wig wags in front and rear and are only used on private properties. NEVER on the streets.
Hopefully this link works! Heres a pic of one of our squads. All of them are black and white, other than the unmarked squads.

http://i12.tinypic.com/2dslap5.gif

[Mr. Security]

PUBLIC safety on a security vehicle? Seems pretty close to what a member of the public expects a police car to look like. :(

[SecTrainer]

PUBLIC safety on a security vehicle? Seems pretty close to what a member of the public expects a police car to look like. :(

Ditto with regard to black/white, the slight revision of the well-known police motto "To Protect and Serve", and the reference to "911", which is obviously not the phone number of this security agency! The only thing missing is a blue/red lightbar.

I'm sure there are a lot of venues where this design wouldn't go over well with the police, or would even be illegal.

[N. A. Corbier]

Welcome to Wisconsin. Also, "Public Safety" is not a "police" word up here. Look at IPC, who does not have "security officers," but "public safety officers."

Let me make the point a little better on edit:

There are companies running around with POLICE on their cars. Blue Knight Police, Kenosha Private Police, Schmitt Security Police (I saw one that hasn't been redone! Old POS too...) and who knows what else... Police is a verb up here, not a noun. Hell, the statute requiring licensing for security says "private police" right in it.

[SecTrainer]

Welcome to Wisconsin. Also, "Public Safety" is not a "police" word up here. Look at IPC, who does not have "security officers," but "public safety officers."

Let me make the point a little better on edit:

There are companies running around with POLICE on their cars. Blue Knight Police, Kenosha Private Police, Schmitt Security Police (I saw one that hasn't been redone! Old POS too...) and who knows what else... Police is a verb up here, not a noun. Hell, the statute requiring licensing for security says "private police" right in it.

Yes, but I doubt that the public is "up" on all of these technical minutiae like what the statute for security licensing says, and public perception was all that Mr. Security was talking about in his post. This would certainly apply even more so to the millions of people (who are also part of "the public") who visit Wisconsin every year from other climes.

And, I don't wish to be argumentative, but "police" is a noun as well as a verb everywhere that the English language is spoken and standard English language dictionaries are used - including Wisconsin. That's why you will find "Milwaukee Police", for instance, and the word "POLICE" on the patches and vehicles of Wisconsin police agencies - it's not being used as a verb but as a noun in the formal name of the agency.

If not...maybe there should be signs at the Wisconsin state lines to warn visitors that words don't mean the same as they do elsewhere. It reminds me of this quote from Alice in Wonderland:

Humpty Dumpty: When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean -neither more nor less.
Alice: The question is, whether you can make words mean so many different things.

[N. A. Corbier]

Ah, but look in other states where the vehicles say "Public Safety," as well. The term "POLICE" is generally reserved for the government, but "public safety" is not. Illinois, where the words "POLICE" will get you arrested have many national security outfits calling themselves "public safety departments," usually around the malls.

Wisconsin has historically viewed it as so: If you are impersonating a public office, you are impersonating the police. If your patches and title do not impersonate a specific public office (Kenosha Police, Milwaukee County Sheriff, etc), then you can use the term Police.

Blue Knight Police does not infringe on a specific public office, unless there's a Blue Knight, Wisconsin somewhere in this state. Valor "Public Safety" does not infringe on any Department of Public Safety in Wisconsin, unless there is a Valor, Wisconsin.

That's how the game has historically been played.

[Special Investigator]

Ditto with regard to black/white, the slight revision of the well-known police motto "To Protect and Serve", and the reference to "911", which is obviously not the phone number of this security agency! The only thing missing is a blue/red lightbar.

I'm sure there are a lot of venues where this design wouldn't go over well with the police, or would even be illegal.
I tend to agree with ya on that. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, but a squad that is painted B&W like that may be illegal in Wisconsin. I believe it is reserved only for local LE. Sheriff depts cannot use B&W around these parts, it must be a solid color squad. The "To Protect and Serve", and the reference to "911", may be confusing to the general public and I'm sure LEO's might not like it and harrass anyone behind the wheel. The phone number of the agency MUST be on the vehicle.



If your patches and title do not impersonate a specific public office (Kenosha Police, Milwaukee County Sheriff, etc), then you can use the term Police.
That is changing. The use of the word "POLICE" is currently being deemed 'illegal' by the DRL. The DRL is forcing security companies who use the word police in their names to change it otherwise their license to operate may not be renewed. Also, your shoulder patches cannot look like, or resamble a police patch. All patches must be approved by the DRL.

[Mr. Security]

My concern is that security needs to have a clear distinction from LE where appearance is concerned. I'm not saying that we all need to wear square badges and goofy-looking uniforms. What I am saying is that every time we are perceived as trying to look like cops, we add fuel to the fire about security being a bunch of wannabes.

IMO, titles like Public Safety and Private Police play right into this argument. Security Enforcement Officer, Private Protection Officer and the like convey authority w/o crossing into LE territory.

[Special Investigator]

IMO, titles like Public Safety and Private Police play right into this argument. Security Enforcement Officer, Private Protection Officer and the like convey authority w/o crossing into LE territory.


"Public Safety" is fine for security, etc., it does not suggest you are the Police.

[Jackhole]

"Public Safety" is fine for security, etc., it does not suggest you are the Police.
It does to me. In my home state, "Public Safety" is a title used only by those with special police authority, such as colleges, hospitals, etc.

Security should be allowed to use exactly ONE title: Security. No need to confuse most people more than they already are.

[Mr. Security]

"Public Safety" is fine for security, etc., it does not suggest you are the Police.

Maybe that's true where you are at, but over here, Department of Public Safety (DOPS) is the state police.

[Jackhole]

Maybe that's true where you are at, but over here, Department of Public Safety (DOPS) is the state police.
Same here. The Department of Public Safety is a huge state agency that encompasses these 3 entities (there's probably more that I don't know of, too): Bureau of Protective Services (state building patrols, executive protection), Highway Patrol and the Criminal Justice Academy

Are these people security guards? Definitely not.

[Special Investigator]

Upon further review.....

http://i12.tinypic.com/2dslap5.gif

The badge on the side of the squad might be cause for a problem, but it is not big enough that the DRL would say something.

The "Call 911" is OK. Often if civilans see the agency's phone number on the side of the vehicle, they tend to call that number when they have a emergency. The agency's phone number is not a requirement as I previously stated.

The "Protect & Serve" might bring a lawsuit if you fail to protect and/or serve. A lot of police depts are no longer using that motto because of lialability reasons. Some depts have been sued because they failed to "protect".

The B & W configuration is OK as of now in WI but there is legislation currently being passed that would only allow local police to use the B & W colors. Once Milwaukee PD changes over to B & W, all security companies will no longer be able to use that configuration and will have to change.

BTW WISecurityGuy, if I may ask, who do you work for? That squad looks very familar.

[GCMC Security]

The "Call 911" is OK. Often if civilans see the agency's phone number on the side of the vehicle, they tend to call that number when they have a emergency. The agency's phone number is not a requirement as I previously stated.



I got asked on a date that way! While working the downtown area of Grand Rapids MI, a girl pulled up beside me at an intersection. 10 minutes later I get a call from the dispatcher to TX the office. The girl called our number, got the dispatcher, told her where she saw me and left her number with the dispatcher for me!! I got ribbed about that for awhile!!

[WISecurityGuy]

Wow, I didnt know that my post would cause such commotion. Ok, heres how I see it. We have had these squad cars in service for the last 5 years. All with the same graphics. Just more within the last two years. In regards to the badge on the vehicle, I am not sure the DRL would allow it or not. That would be something for the owner to work out. However, the ONLY time that our officers have been bothered by the police is when we hurriedly placed a squad in service BEFORE the graphics were placed on the vehicle. There were 3 major squad accidents that occurred within one week, and the graphics take 3-4 weeks to come in. Now, regarding the Black and White squads. Keep in mind that our squads are patrolling 24/7 responding to alarms, picking up transportees, and then at our normal accounts. At any one time throughout the day there are atleast 4-5 squads out. For the most part, all of our squads are in Milwaukee. Milwaukee has all white squads with a blue stripe. Anyone in Milwaukee can tell that our black and white is not a MPD squad. If we had all white squads, and blue graphics, that would be a bigger problem with the PD. The "Call 911" on the side is just that. In any emergency situation, we want the citizens to call 911. Not us.

"Public Safety" in our neck of the woods means just that, not POLICE. Even the city has a "security" division that provides state funded security to the cities housing. The Housing Authority has all armed personnel, not cops or sworn LEO's (although to my understanding some are, just waiting to get into departments). They are called the Housing Authority Public Safety, with Public Safety plastered all over their squads. (Very nice squads by the way). Around here EVERYONE knows Public Safety is not Police. Out of staters might be confused, but not the locals.

With the type of work we do, patrolling private propery, responding to alarms at peoples residences and without their actual permission all the time, we need a more "official looking" appearance if you will. It is not really easy doing what we do and sometimes any little help counts.

Just because were not driving around in Hybrid Toyota Echo's doesnt mean that we are not security!!

[WISecurityGuy]

Also, our company name IS on the car, although not as easy to read as the Public Safety!!

[WISecurityGuy]

Special Investigator, where or how can we read the legislation you are talking about that would only allow Police to use the B&W colors?

I couldnt imagine the bill of changing our squads over to all black! :eek:

[EMTGuard]

BTW WISecurityGuy, if I may ask, who do you work for? That squad looks very familar.Looks like the same design used by our local PD, City of Saint Gabriel, Louisiana Police Department.
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7918/newsgpd1dq.jpg

[WISecurityGuy]

Yes, we buy our graphics from an internet Police graphic website. There are numerous cities with the same kind.

[N. A. Corbier]

Yes, we buy our graphics from an internet Police graphic website. There are numerous cities with the same kind.

Is it local in Racine? I got a catalog from them, very interesting designs, but used around the country by PD and security departments.

I have heard rumblings, but nothing concrete, that the WI Chief's Association is thinking of going to black and white "to be able to make sure people know the police are the police," since everyone else (read security) uses fancy graphics and white cars. A return to the LAPD times, I guess. I had believed this was voluntary, not going to be a restriction law.

As far as putting 911 on a car, I am all for it. Call 911 FOR EMERGENCIES. Do not call our dispatcher, we are not 911.

[WISecurityGuy]

No, we use grafixshoppe.com. Local print shops charge 2 to 3 times as much since they obviously dont specialize in just police graphics.

Grafix shoppe is great to our company, send us out a lot of freebies every now and then, and helps us get our money back for the graphics when our squads are involved in accidents.

[N. A. Corbier]

No, we use grafixshoppe.com. Local print shops charge 2 to 3 times as much since they obviously dont specialize in just police graphics.

Grafix shoppe is great to our company, send us out a lot of freebies every now and then, and helps us get our money back for the graphics when our squads are involved in accidents.

... I see. Same company we got a quote from, and most of my clients and friends go to. Small world, isn't it? They do good work.

[ocp]

I have noticed some Security Officers here in Columbus Ohio are getting away from patches / badges that say security and going with "private Police" or "public safety". can you do this on the uniform or patrol cars? I have only found that you can not use the word police or patrol that is with the wording Ohio or state. The badges on our patrol vehicles just say "patrol officer" and then the unit number.

[Lawson]

From what I remember reading, a security agency can call themselves a Private Police in Ohio, but it does not give them any Law Enforcement authority. I will try to look it up...

[flashlightcop509]

From what I remember reading, a security agency can call themselves a Private Police in Ohio, but it does not give them any Law Enforcement authority. I will try to look it up...

Hmmmm.....

My (Generic) Badge says "Security Enforcement Officer"... Within the boundaries of my Client's property I have full authority insomuch as ETOH drivers, unlawful entries, trespass, criminal mischief,. etc...)

The ski season is picking up well here in Vermont, so I look forward to my duties with much glee that I will soon be educating teenage drunkards in the proper way to stay at a hotel without burning the damn thing to the ground, and to assure out of state, brain dead drivers that I do in fact have both the VSP and a towing company on call 24/7, and to be smart and check in for the night and STAY HOME!...

[N. A. Corbier]

Hmmmm.....

My (Generic) Badge says "Security Enforcement Officer"... Within the boundaries of my Client's property I have full authority insomuch as ETOH drivers, unlawful entries, trespass, criminal mischief,. etc...)

The ski season is picking up well here in Vermont, so I look forward to my duties with much glee that I will soon be educating teenage drunkards in the proper way to stay at a hotel without burning the damn thing to the ground, and to assure out of state, brain dead drivers that I do in fact have both the VSP and a towing company on call 24/7, and to be smart and check in for the night and STAY HOME!...

Please define "authority" as far as ETOH drivers, unlawful entries, trespass, etc.

Are you empowered by the state to make arrests in its name, as a special or regular law enforcement officer?

[warrior_oh58d]

So my company has several different vehicles: New dodge dakota pickups, ford crown vics w/ police package and whelen blue strobe lightbars, Jeep Liberties, Ford E350 vans for prisoner transport & extradition, a ford escape, and the occasional ford ranger. I also use my personal vehicle for many sites i patrol, a 1999 ford F150 4x4 offroad w/ corner strobes and a cheap dashlight which i can change from amber and clear to blue an clear depending on the site i am working. We have nifty laws in nc regarding deputizing and since we have our own police dept, thats real police with full arrest powers, i frequently work sites as a police officer which is also how i am armed on state educational proberty (campus police).

[fatalflaw]

You know what they say....FORD
- Found On Road Dead
- Fix Or Repair Daily
- First On Rust & Dust
- First On Recalls & Dissatisfaction :D

or CHEVROLET
- "Like a Rock"... sitting on the side of the road
- "Like a Rock"... moves as slow as errosion
or my favorite
C)racked
H)eads
E)very
V)alve
R)attles
O)il
L)eaks
E)ventually
T)icks

or Dodge aka MOPAR

M)ostly
O)ld
P)arts
A)nd
R)ust

Being a ford guy, there is another
- Fully Overhauled Rebuilt Dragster
- Frigen Owns Rickety Dodges
- First On Race Day

[Charger]

...or Dodge aka MOPAR

M)ostly
O)ld
P)arts
A)nd
R)ust

Being a ford guy, there is another...

Uh oh... I can already tell that you and I won't get along.. :D

(Die-hard Mopar man... Mopar, or NO car!) :p

[Mall Director]

or CHEVROLET
- "Like a Rock"... sitting on the side of the road
- "Like a Rock"... moves as slow as errosion
or my favorite
C)racked
H)eads
E)very
V)alve
R)attles
O)il
L)eaks
E)ventually
T)icks

or Dodge aka MOPAR

M)ostly
O)ld
P)arts
A)nd
R)ust

Being a ford guy, there is another
- Fully Overhauled Rebuilt Dragster
- Frigen Owns Rickety Dodges
- First On Race Day

Or: C hews H eads, E ats V alves, R aces O nly L ittle E lectric T rains...

Dont forget my favorite.. F irst O n R ace D ay!

And because i know its not politically correct, the Pontiac one stays out of sight! LOL!

[fatalflaw]

lol nice chevrolet one :P

and look at the bottom of my post :P I didnt forget first on race day lol

[Knight Watch]

I did not see this Ford one

First Outa Road Ditch!!!! :D


and the anti-ford

Flip Over Read Directions

F Over Rebulit Dotson

Forget Out Runing Dale :mad:
------------------------------------------
Die hard Ford Man myself :cool:

[BUCKSHOT]

Does anyone know what happened to ford with the rubber spot lights instead of the chrome? I kind of miss that old school chrome look.

[davis002]

Does anyone know what happened to ford with the rubber spot lights instead of the chrome? I kind of miss that old school chrome look.

cost and visibilty... i assume. That's part of why they "de-chromed" all the p71s after 99'.

[investigator1usa]

No patrol car at my new job site.When I worked for IPC we had a 2wd explorer that ran about half the time and when it snowed we had to run the mall's 4wd pick-up.

[The_Mayor]

A white Ford Ranger with some pimp amber strobes.

[Mall Director]

Does anyone know what happened to ford with the rubber spot lights instead of the chrome? I kind of miss that old school chrome look.

We have the chromies on our Forester.. Does that count? LOL

[Andy Taylor]

I did not see this Ford one

First Outa Road Ditch!!!! :D


and the anti-ford

Flip Over Read Directions

F Over Rebulit Dotson

Forget Out Runing Dale :mad:
------------------------------------------
Die hard Ford Man myself :cool:

Backwards:
Driver Returns On Foot.

[AlliedEMTguard]

Here at the mall we drive a "new" 2006 Ford Ranger with mall security reflective stickers and an all amber lightbar with white alley lights. The guys here treat it like shiza, yet I always have fun....then again, im all true blue inside me lol. I'll take a pic Christmas eve when I'm on shift.

[gonzo1510]

A 13 ton black and white armored truck that is not built for comfort nor speed but at least the A/C works great during the winter..... :D

[PAofficer]

My last site issued patrol vehicle was mid 90's mid size blazer/jimmy 4 door. Before that we had a 80's Plymouth mini van. The van was great for patroling the 100 achers site (private community). Nothing special about it and the misc equipment carried layed behind the rear seat on the floor. The client required us to use a green pancake light on the dash board for EMS and fire responses. Green because no one else used green and they thought it would not be offensive to anyone. We later built a storage cabinet for the rear to store all the equipment. Built to fit everything snugly and safely, the officers did it themselfs and paid for the supplies to do it. But in the end when we lifted to hatch it looked good and kept it clean and safe. Now days working for a contract agency we drive our personal vehicles. My last one was a Dodge truck set up for security.

[BigNastyOne]

My take home vehicle......
http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/uploads/large/CROW102004-02-06.jpg

[Mr. Security]

Watchout for IEDs. :p

[fatalflaw]

My takehome :P

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5707/324augustawestlandapachah0.jpg

[Mr. Security]

Now you're talking.

[Rick51a]

We usually drive a Toyota Tundra but of late we've been stuck with a Jeep Cherokee: the damn seat kills my back.

Rick

For me, it has been small pickup trucks and the occasional Queen Victoria. ;)
Most of which have been older than my oldest underwear I dare to wear. :p

[ocp]

:o I have noticed that everyone uses all kinds of vehicles for patrol work, don't you think that is one reason that some people don't respect us or what we do. having a orginized fleet of patrol vehicles, doesn't have to be alot of vehicles, but some vehicles that are the same type, look the same, have professional markings and lighting would show the public that you are professional and work for reputable company. not a bunch of rag tag pick up trucks or junk cars with 1970's era lightbars. crappy patrol cars scream "please don't respect me I'm a renta cop". This goes for the uniforms as well. the first thing the public or law enforcement sees is your uniform, if you look like crap ( not up to law enforcement or military standards) then you are wrong. take the time and money to buy desent duty gear, shine your boots or shoes, keep your hair cut, shave, learn what an iron is, and have all your Officers looking the same. The Officers and companies out there not being up to standards with crappy vehicles or uniforms makes us all look bad. we don't get the respect like the Police do, we have to earn ours. Now I understand that your smaller professional companies don't have the budgets to purchase vehicles or uniforms in bulk, but with my department we bought our Crown Vics at off of ebay for cheap, the equipment off of disbanded Police departments, and the uniforms through a discount uniform shop. the sad thing is is that our vehicles, equipment, and uniforms look better then the police here in Columbus and we did it for half the cost.

[fatalflaw]

the sad thing is is that our vehicles, equipment, and uniforms look better then the police here in Columbus and we did it for half the cost.

that's government spending for ya :P

$20,000 for a hammer, $50,000 for a toilet seat :D

[N. A. Corbier]

Here's the thing, though. A lot of security companies do not want to look like the police, nor drive "police-like" cars. They use pick-up trucks because the things get more gas mileage, and will (usually) never be mistaken for a police car.

Why invest money in light bars when they can only be activated on private property, or in some cases, not at all?

Why invest money in fancy graphics when they don't bring in revenue?

The patrol vehicle is a "necessary evil," in some minds, and is made by buying a cheap used car, stenciling on the company name (sometimes required by law), and throwing a little yellow hazard light on top.

[Charger]

And those are the companies that need to take some classes in marketing... After all, we all know that a professional-looking, marked patrol unit is essentially a glorified, rolling billboard for your company. :D

[N. A. Corbier]

And those are the companies that need to take some classes in marketing... After all, we all know that a professional-looking, marked patrol unit is essentially a glorified, rolling billboard for your company. :D

You would think, wouldn't you?

[Echos13]

You would think, wouldn't you?


Yea, look a TWC's vehicles. Lots of people ask what kind of construction company it is. LOL. In little tiny words it has "custom protection divison". But the first thing you see is those big bright painted words of the company that covers the whole forward door and part of the back. Personaly I think these vehicles look hidious and tacky with black lettering and yellow trim and back ground. They don't look like security vehicles. They are very much indeed rolling billboards.

[EMTjon]

My favorite is the priviate security Co. locally that uses Plymouth Sundances and similar as patrol vehicles... They also have a Ford Aerostar. All have 7-pod Vector/Vision Lightbars on them. :rolleyes: And there are some other companies that use the 1980's Dodge sedans.... UGLY.

Anyway... I've seen some companies use Jeep Liberty's (which are fine vehicles, if you rarely drive them) and Ford Ranger pickups.

One local mall (one of the 10 largest in the US) has a deal with Chevy that Chevy gets their name on their patrol vehicles, and I assume the mall pays very little for their vehicles.

Jon

[Mr. Security]

It doesn't help any that many security officers mistreat the vehicle(s) that they are given. I know some cops do the same, but their vehicles are normally replaced after a few years. Not so with security. Moreover, if you have a great team spirit with your fellow officers, then everyone will want to do their part in maintaining it and maybe even add some comfort items out of pocket.

[Lawson]

When I used a patrol vehicle, I used to spend at least a half hour at the end of shift making sure it was good to go for the next guy, I cleaned out the inside, gave it a thourough washing, made sure it was gassed up, vaccuumed out, everything was secured down, all the paperwork was refilled, checked all the lamps and overhead lights to make sure they were all still burning, everything. Unfortunately the favor is not always returned.

[djg_1982]

2002 Chevy Blazer

[Dam Guard]

Ford F250 Super Duty. Nice vehicle and has an absolutly great a.m./f.m. radio and speakers in it. I don't know why the radio is so good but it sounds better than the sonly xplode in my POV. There is a lot of area to check where I work and it is very muddy at times. So we really do need and use the 4wd. :D

[EMTjon]

It doesn't help any that many security officers mistreat the vehicle(s) that they are given. I know some cops do the same, but their vehicles are normally replaced after a few years. Not so with security...

Kind of like rental cars?

[Echos13]

TWC's are all leased or rented. We treat them rather well, at least I do. They just got a bunch of Jeeps. Also the names changing soon. Well, at least it's getting an "additonal" name. Was hoping to say good bye to the old name. Wonder what they will look like this time. The Jeeps are nice, ride smooth and have some kick to them.

[N. A. Corbier]

They gonna call them Group4Wackenhut now? :)

[Echos13]

They gonna call them Group4Wackenhut now? :)


Yea, something like G4S Wackenhut. Try saying that fast three times, lol!

[N. A. Corbier]

I wonder if the Securitas vehicles will still say Securitas, or if they'll go to Group4Securitas.

[Echos13]

I wanted something like SG-1. Securicor Group One. Sounds a lot cooler. :D

Anyway, they changed the website.

http://www.g4s.com/usw

[exguard]

Just put in service on January 5th. Two Brand-New Ford F-150s...Extended Cab.

Striped and lettered, Lighting Package is All LED Red / Amber Grill, Roof Light Bar & Siren System, Rear Lighting, Mobile Radio / Scanner

Nice Patrol vehicles plenty of room for all our crap {Inspection mirrors, vests, medical gear, etc.} and the most important.....CD Players. NICE !

[ocp]

Well I guess what I said about companies using all kinds of vehicles for patrol work got everyone going. N.A. Corbier you made a good point about companies not wanting their patrol cars to look like police vehicles, and there is nothing wrong with that. the point I was trying to make is that no mater what kind of vehicle is used make it look good, because it is a rolling billboard for your company. look at this way if your company uses cars, trucks, or jeeps at least its not putting miles on your own car. also what was said about the lighting or lightbars on company vehicles when it comes to security work, the only real time i use my lightbar other then the alley lights is so P.D. or the fire department can find me when I call from one of our large apartment properties. some of our properties like the one i was at last night has 1756 units and around 4000 residents, the addresses are all over the place and the lightbar helps the medics or police find me faster. this is the same property that a female hispanic delivered a baby in one of the parking lots last year, and i had to get a medic in there quick.

thanks everyone

Aaron (ocp)

[james2go30]

we get a pissy little electric golf cart to patrol the parking garage. Ha everytime I get in the damn thing it seems like a joke.

[EMTGuard]

The problem with unmarked, we patrol the mill in unmarked vans or cars, is that there's no way for anyone to know who we are. We were recently told to be VISIBLE checking the back fence line of our site. But our vehicles have NO markings at all to show that it's a security patrol and not a contractor or plant worker just driving around. I'd appreciate at least a generic SECURITY magnetic sign to put on the door of each truck or van we use when patroling. An amber light would be nice too.
Recently we had a vehicle drive into our union employees parking lot and was driving around slowly and acting suspicciously. One of our SOs drove out in one of our vans to the parking lot but could only follow behind the person. He had no lights or other identifying insignia to let them know who he was. The car didn't stop until I actually walked out of my guard post, across 2 truck scales, through a contractor parking lot to the union parking lot and stood in front of the vehicle. It turned out to be the spouse of a plant employee with his dinner who didn't know where to drop it off and was just driving around until someone, me, stopped her. :mad:

[Mr. Security]

The problem with unmarked, we patrol the mill in unmarked vans or cars, is that there's no way for anyone to know who we are. We were recently told to be VISIBLE checking the back fence line of our site. But our vehicles have NO markings at all to show that it's a security patrol and not a contractor or plant worker just driving around. I'd appreciate at least a generic SECURITY magnetic sign to put on the door of each truck or van we use when patroling. An amber light would be nice too.
Recently we had a vehicle drive into our union employees parking lot and was driving around slowly and acting suspicciously. One of our SOs drove out in one of our vans to the parking lot but could only follow behind the person. He had no lights or other identifying insignia to let them know who he was. The car didn't stop until I actually walked out of my guard post, across 2 truck scales, through a contractor parking lot to the union parking lot and stood in front of the vehicle. It turned out to be the spouse of a plant employee with his dinner who didn't know where to drop it off and was just driving around until someone, me, stopped her. :mad:

Unmarked can be dangerous, especially if LE gets involved. More than one cop has died from so-called "friendly fire" while off duty. Perhaps the officer pulls his weapon to stop a robbery, etc., and other cops arrive on the scene and mistake him for the suspect. If the police fail to recognize your vehicle as security, then you could be a suspect too. :eek:

[EMTGuard]

Inhousehack,
Very nice work on that older car. Sorry to hear that you have so many problems with your equiptment getting trashed. I hope that you can sometimes prosecute those involved. Keep up the good work.

[pramsey]

*sigh* When state statute mandated background requirements make it illegal for any company to hire you...just buy your own car and call it "In-House Patrol"...lol

Hack needs to worry less about putting the vandals in jail and worry about keeping himself out.

1. The vehicle is not legal. The statute states the vehicle must be put into service prior to 2002. Not manufactured prior to that.

2. The vehicle must have posted on three sides the name of your company. That includes the company name of an in house security program.

3. The correct term for what you are doing is not Private Proprietary Security. Ther term you are looking for is operating without a protective agents license. At least that is what Marie Ohman said at the Department of Public Safety PDB.

4. You are not authorized to be a security officer; contract, proprietary, or even hack, in the state. Specific criminal convictions make that against statute. It's a long list...but burglary is on there.

My advice to Hack...time to find a new line of work. There is no room for rogue wanna-bes in our business. Our goal here is to professionalize the industry. What you are doing is illegal. It is a miracle the state board hasn't shut you down yet. But until they do, the best advise I can give you is lay low. Collect the money while you can, because it won't last forever.

My advice to everyone else...don't take any advice from an individual that flaunts his disrespect for every rule, law, professionalism and common courtesy the rest of us are trying to instill in this business.

[Charger]

*sigh* When state statute mandated background requirements make it illegal for any company to hire you...just buy your own car and call it "In-House Patrol"...lol

Hack needs to worry less about putting the vandals in jail and worry about keeping himself out.

1. The vehicle is not legal. The statute states the vehicle must be put into service prior to 2002. Not manufactured prior to that.

2. The vehicle must have posted on three sides the name of your company. That includes the company name of an in house security program.

3. The correct term for what you are doing is not Private Proprietary Security. Ther term you are looking for is operating without a protective agents license. At least that is what Marie Ohman said at the Department of Public Safety PDB.

4. You are not authorized to be a security officer; contract, proprietary, or even hack, in the state. Specific criminal convictions make that against statute. It's a long list...but burglary is on there.

My advice to Hack...time to find a new line of work. There is no room for rogue wanna-bes in our business. Our goal here is to professionalize the industry. What you are doing is illegal. It is a miracle the state board hasn't shut you down yet. But until they do, the best advise I can give you is lay low. Collect the money while you can, because it won't last forever.

My advice to everyone else...don't take any advice from an individual that flaunts his disrespect for every rule, law, professionalism and common courtesy the rest of us are trying to instill in this business.

Are we to assume then that you know this guy personally? You've made some pretty big accusations there. Might be wise not to just spout stuff off like that unless you have solid evidence to back it up. Whether that vehicle is legal or not will depend on what state he's in. In this area, that vehicle would be perfectly legal for security use.

[james2go30]

This is off topic...but I you avatar...icon...whatever looks like the lights on a patrol car...sure thats what it is...but I first I thought it was the grill from K.I.T. from Knightriderlol...talk about a brainfart. Guess I'm just tired.

[Charger]

This is off topic...but I you avatar...icon...whatever looks like the lights on a patrol car...sure thats what it is...but I first I thought it was the grill from K.I.T. from Knightriderlol...talk about a brainfart. Guess I'm just tired.

Time to lay off the caffeine, maybe? :D LOL

[security steve]

It looks like the vehicle is parked on a yellow curb, which usually indicates a fire lane???

[N. A. Corbier]

*sigh* When state statute mandated background requirements make it illegal for any company to hire you...just buy your own car and call it "In-House Patrol"...lol

Hack needs to worry less about putting the vandals in jail and worry about keeping himself out.

1. The vehicle is not legal. The statute states the vehicle must be put into service prior to 2002. Not manufactured prior to that.

2. The vehicle must have posted on three sides the name of your company. That includes the company name of an in house security program.

3. The correct term for what you are doing is not Private Proprietary Security. Ther term you are looking for is operating without a protective agents license. At least that is what Marie Ohman said at the Department of Public Safety PDB.

4. You are not authorized to be a security officer; contract, proprietary, or even hack, in the state. Specific criminal convictions make that against statute. It's a long list...but burglary is on there.

My advice to Hack...time to find a new line of work. There is no room for rogue wanna-bes in our business. Our goal here is to professionalize the industry. What you are doing is illegal. It is a miracle the state board hasn't shut you down yet. But until they do, the best advise I can give you is lay low. Collect the money while you can, because it won't last forever.

My advice to everyone else...don't take any advice from an individual that flaunts his disrespect for every rule, law, professionalism and common courtesy the rest of us are trying to instill in this business.

Congratulations, you have won our prize for libelous statements. I do hope you can back some of these statements up, in case that the post decides to sue you.

I'm quite sure that Cygnus Business Media will cooperate with any court of jurisdiction issuing a subpoena for your IP address and other information.

For reference, the person he's referring to is Director of the Private Detective Board of the Minnesota Department of Public Safety.

[N. A. Corbier]

It looks like the vehicle is parked on a yellow curb, which usually indicates a fire lane???

In most cases, traffic laws do not apply on private property. Fire lanes must be red, in most states, for it to be an actual fire lane, where you can be fined. A yellow curb is "do not park here," and in most states, the only thing you can do is have the vehicle towed as an unwanted vehicle.

In other states, you may do nothing to the car, as it requires police intervention to have it towed.

In this guy's case, the entire curb looks to be marked yellow for visibility.

[pramsey]

Congratulations, you have won our prize for libelous statements. I do hope you can back some of these statements up, in case that the post decides to sue you.

I'm quite sure that Cygnus Business Media will cooperate with any court of jurisdiction issuing a subpoena for your IP address and other information.

For reference, the person he's referring to is Director of the Private Detective
Board of the Minnesota Department of Public Safety.

Yes I can back it up. I would not have even hinted at it if it wasn't true and provable.

The vehicle stuff is easy. Check the statutes here. If the car was on the road prior to 2002, the company can keep using it at long as it met guidelines pre-2002. Buying a car older than 2002 doesn't take you back to pre-2002 statutes.

As far as the rest, what he does is he works for several different companies "in-house". He drives around and checks on each of them and they pay him a nightly "wage". In reality he has several clients, and charges them a nightly patrol fee.

This sounds like a patrol service as opposed to an "in-house" security program. The state licensing agency is aware of him and agrees. I'm not sure why they haven't taken any action yet. So like I said...he should lay low as opposed to drawing attention to what he is doing.

The fortunate part for him is his clients are duplexes, and small apartment complexes that could not afford to pay for the services of a licensed and insured agency. So license holders aren't losing any business. If license holders don't complain, the state doesn't do much.

He doesn't have insurance covering his actions. He claims to work under the insurance of the various companies that hire him.

1. I doubt they are aware of this, or at least are not aware of what liability they are taking on if they are aware of it. But I don't know this for sure.

2. Even if they are aware of this, and the risk, it is still viewed as unlicensed activity by the state in providing a service that they view as needing a license.

Even if the state were to state the arrangement did not require a license, he is still unable to work in Minnesota as an "in-house" officer as by statute they must adhere to the same hiring standards as contract agencies. His felony conviction (for which he serverd two years in prison) prevents him from working as a security officer. I have a printout of his record, so I know that part is factual.


I am not trying to attack someone just because he is skirting the law with his vehicle. Anyone who has been doing this job for a while has done a little skirting. Or at least major stretching. What bothers me is we have an individual that has taken all of our goals for professionalism in the industry and mocked them. This is worse than the Rambo wannabe's that get hired by a secrity company and run around like their badge makes them God. He can't get hired by a security company so he runs around with a badge and car he bought.

On a side note...for the yellow curb thing. Yellow curbs typically mean nothing in Minnesota. That one is a "Don't hit this thing that keeps you from driving on our grass!" It is just to draw attention. The state has no regulations on fire lanes. Fire lanes are established by city ordinances. Fire lanes on private property are treated the same as on public. In Minneapolis the only requirement is that the City Fire Marshal approve the marking of the fire lane. It could be signs, or maybe even painted road. I've never made a list, but all I have ever seen is signs posted at the start end and of the fire lane. Longer lanes will have additional signs in between.

[security steve]

Our site has yellow curbs with signs approximately 5 ft tall which read, "Fire Lane - no stopping, standing or parking allowed. Towing Enforced."

We, along with the city police issue citations which can run up to several hundred dollars. Of course, we are in charge of the City Water and Sewer and have a zero tolerance for parking on our curbs. Also, if the car is there, turned off and no driver in site, it will be towed immediately.

It is interesting to know the different rules and regulations in regards to fire lanes and handicap spots. Our local government has some pretty specific ones (such as color and sign, size, colors, verbage etc) and will not touch it unless specifically to local regs. Maybe we can start a new thread as to not hijack this one.

[pramsey]

I'm sure the Minneapolis fire marshal has set standards...but all the ordinances require is "Approval by the City Fire Marshal". So I'm not sure what they are.

[N. A. Corbier]

Yes I can back it up. I would not have even hinted at it if it wasn't true and provable.

The vehicle stuff is easy. Check the statutes here. If the car was on the road prior to 2002, the company can keep using it at long as it met guidelines pre-2002. Buying a car older than 2002 doesn't take you back to pre-2002 statutes.

As far as the rest, what he does is he works for several different companies "in-house". He drives around and checks on each of them and they pay him a nightly "wage". In reality he has several clients, and charges them a nightly patrol fee.

This sounds like a patrol service as opposed to an "in-house" security program. The state licensing agency is aware of him and agrees. I'm not sure why they haven't taken any action yet. So like I said...he should lay low as opposed to drawing attention to what he is doing.

The fortunate part for him is his clients are duplexes, and small apartment complexes that could not afford to pay for the services of a licensed and insured agency. So license holders aren't losing any business. If license holders don't complain, the state doesn't do much.

He doesn't have insurance covering his actions. He claims to work under the insurance of the various companies that hire him.

1. I doubt they are aware of this, or at least are not aware of what liability they are taking on if they are aware of it. But I don't know this for sure.

2. Even if they are aware of this, and the risk, it is still viewed as unlicensed activity by the state in providing a service that they view as needing a license.

Even if the state were to state the arrangement did not require a license, he is still unable to work in Minnesota as an "in-house" officer as by statute they must adhere to the same hiring standards as contract agencies. His felony conviction (for which he serverd two years in prison) prevents him from working as a security officer. I have a printout of his record, so I know that part is factual.


I am not trying to attack someone just because he is skirting the law with his vehicle. Anyone who has been doing this job for a while has done a little skirting. Or at least major stretching. What bothers me is we have an individual that has taken all of our goals for professionalism in the industry and mocked them. This is worse than the Rambo wannabe's that get hired by a secrity company and run around like their badge makes them God. He can't get hired by a security company so he runs around with a badge and car he bought.

On a side note...for the yellow curb thing. Yellow curbs typically mean nothing in Minnesota. That one is a "Don't hit this thing that keeps you from driving on our grass!" It is just to draw attention. The state has no regulations on fire lanes. Fire lanes are established by city ordinances. Fire lanes on private property are treated the same as on public. In Minneapolis the only requirement is that the City Fire Marshal approve the marking of the fire lane. It could be signs, or maybe even painted road. I've never made a list, but all I have ever seen is signs posted at the start end and of the fire lane. Longer lanes will have additional signs in between.

Interesting. The operation you describe does sound like a patrol service for hire.

The difference between libel and non-libel, as we know, is evidence. You are prepared to defend your position, which is more than most libelous persons do. As to truth, if he wishes to contest it... Then he can pay the fees and sue you. And, if what you say is true, perhaps you can buy his lovely car after you win.

Also, MN has the silliest rules on cars ever. :)

[pramsey]

I'm not worried about a lawsuit. I have all the proof I would need. But this really isn't the place to air all that out. I already put out more than I really wanted to.

My only point in all this is there are some key contributors to this site, some that are along for the ride, and some that need to be ignored. Hack is one to be ignored.

And as far as Minnesota...what is funny is they have very few rules...but when they do spit one out...yeah. They get a bit silly. No Black, white, blue, red, maroon, brown, tan, or green. So that leave the security companies with grey, gold (assuming they don't call that metallic tan), and uhm....pink.