Patrol vehicles, what do you get to drive?

[N. A. Corbier]

Read and digest this very carefully, inhousehack:

I don't know what SIW's policy is for this sort of thing. I have brought this entire little "discussion" up to the Editor in Chief. Including the posts that you deleted, and information I recieved from "A senior member," who actually isn't pramsey. Not sure, nor do I care, who pramsey is.

If the Minnesota Department of Public Safety is involved in this, and one of the parties discloses your statements on the board, I'm sure that Cygnus will cooperate completely.

As to your status as a felon operating a private security business, I'm sure the state will deal with this transgression whenever they feel like. Just be glad that the people involved in this don't start sending letters with your criminal record attached to your "employers."

I think I'm the only evil bastard around here who's evil to do such things, and I just don't care enough to be bothered. The players involved, of course, aren't as evil as me.

You're not armed, so there are small blessings. You think you can buy a taser, but Taser will not allow its distributors to sell to felons. My condolences on that, as the job is dangerous even if you are a felon, even if you are operating illegally, and I don't wish being hurt on anyone.

I don't know who you are, or what you did, only the information given to me by multiple parties. All I know is that when one operates illegally, they take their chances with the state, and I hope you have retained a good civil lawyer to represent you before the Private Detective Board.

Good luck, sir, I think you'll need it.

[pramsey]

Hack,

I figured you would know who I was. As you said, I am a nice guy and a straight shooter. The last thing I want is to have to admit that I know what you have been up to and did nothing to correct it. Plausible deniability.

I will give you the same advise I gave you before. What you are doing is not legal. Lay low, and keep quiet. Posting on the internet about your business is not laying low and will get you in trouble.

If you doubt me, I have heard first hand from the state that they view what you are doing as operating a security business without a license. Why they haven't taken action? I don't know. Be thankful and don't provoke a response from them. And as far as your proprietary security angle. Please read below. I told you before to look up and read the statute and you chose not to. So it is listed below. There is no grey area.

The state has set up standards and rules in an effort to professionalize the industry. I ignored you as you went around these rules. Don't go around and flaunt it in our faces.

I see you deleted your posts. Good call. It also shows you know where you stand.

So once again...lay low.


Per the XXXXXXXXX State Statute the only requirement to working as a Proprietary Officer is that the employer needs to have a XXX criminal history check of the employee. It does not forbid the hiring of that person in that capacity if the employer so desires. However as for you and the other contract companies, they are not allowed to hire a Criminal due to the Licensing Boards rules. Do you seriously think that I would have been working for this many years & having as much contact with local law Enforcement, without knowing exactly what I can and can't do!

326.3381 LICENSES.
Subdivision 1. Prohibition. No person shall engage in the business of private detective or protective agent, or advertise or indicate in any verbal statement or in written material that the person is so engaged or available to supply those services, without having first obtained a license as provided in sections 326.32 to 326.339.
Subd. 1a. Proprietary employers. A proprietary employer is not required to obtain a license, but must comply with section 326.336, subdivision 1, with respect to the hiring of security guards.

326.336 EMPLOYEES OF LICENSE HOLDERS.
Subdivision 1. Background check. A license holder may employ, in connection with the business of private detective or protective agent, as many unlicensed persons as may be necessary; provided that every license holder is at all times accountable for the good conduct of every person employed. When a license holder hires a person to perform services as a private detective or protective agent, the employer shall submit to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension a full set of fingerprints of each employee and the written consent of the employee to enable the bureau to determine whether that person has a criminal record. The employee is a conditional employee until the employer receives a report from the bureau that, based on a check of the criminal records maintained by the bureau, the prospective employee has not been convicted in Minnesota of a felony or any offense listed in section 326.3381, subdivision 3, other than a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor assault. During the period of conditional employment, the person may not serve as a private detective or protective agent, but may be trained by the employer. The bureau shall immediately forward the fingerprints to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and request the Federal Bureau of Investigation to conduct a criminal history check of each conditional employee. The bureau shall determine if the Federal Bureau of Investigation report indicates that the employee was convicted of a disqualifying offense and shall notify the employer accordingly. The employer shall immediately dismiss an employee who has been convicted of a disqualifying offense.

[N. A. Corbier]

:words:
326.3381 LICENSES.
Subdivision 1. Prohibition. No person shall engage in the business of private detective or protective agent, or advertise or indicate in any verbal statement or in written material that the person is so engaged or available to supply those services, without having first obtained a license as provided in sections 326.32 to 326.339.
Subd. 1a. Proprietary employers. A proprietary employer is not required to obtain a license, but must comply with section 326.336, subdivision 1, with respect to the hiring of security guards.

326.336 EMPLOYEES OF LICENSE HOLDERS.
Subdivision 1. Background check. A license holder may employ, in connection with the business of private detective or protective agent, as many unlicensed persons as may be necessary; provided that every license holder is at all times accountable for the good conduct of every person employed. When a license holder hires a person to perform services as a private detective or protective agent, the employer shall submit to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension a full set of fingerprints of each employee and the written consent of the employee to enable the bureau to determine whether that person has a criminal record. The employee is a conditional employee until the employer receives a report from the bureau that, based on a check of the criminal records maintained by the bureau, the prospective employee has not been convicted in Minnesota of a felony or any offense listed in section 326.3381, subdivision 3, other than a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor assault. During the period of conditional employment, the person may not serve as a private detective or protective agent, but may be trained by the employer. The bureau shall immediately forward the fingerprints to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and request the Federal Bureau of Investigation to conduct a criminal history check of each conditional employee. The bureau shall determine if the Federal Bureau of Investigation report indicates that the employee was convicted of a disqualifying offense and shall notify the employer accordingly. The employer shall immediately dismiss an employee who has been convicted of a disqualifying offense.

Well lookie here. Even he wasn't running a security company, even if he was only in-house at one property... He is required to be dismissed by his employer.

[pramsey]

Effective Immediately.
Car Unmarked repainted & stripped of all equip. Just a personal use beater.

All uniforms, duty gear & assorted equip in the dumpster.

All diplomas, credentials, awards & letters of reference that I have obtained in the last 20 years - in the dumpster also (it is worthless now, due to decree by the Government anyway) as is my personal moral turpitude, etc. etc.


*sigh* You still don't get it. You still make jokes. If you truly had any respect for this job profession you would understand our concerns. The problem is not that you still wear a badge. The problem is you run around flaunting it. Saying it is legal. It is not.

The car that started all this is even more proof. It is illegal. You know it. But you did it anyways. And even thought so little of the state's laws, that you posted here showing off.

My concern is not what happened in 1994, but rather you learned nothing from it.

[Marchetti, David, M]

[QUOTE=pramsey]*sigh* When state statute mandated background requirements make it illegal for any company to hire you...just buy your own car and call it "In-House Patrol"...lol

Not in the State of Connecticut if your hiring yourself out as being security, a license is required.

Legally in Connecticut " In House Security Officers " are not Security Officers legally i.e. PA 04-192 "Security officer" means the licensed and registered person hired to safeguard and protect persons and property.

Otherwise your committing an offense. No person shall engage in the business of, or solicit business as a private detective or [investigator or as a watchman, guard or patrol service or represent himself to be, hold himself out as] make representations to be or advertise as a private detective [or investigator] or as furnishing detective or investigating services [or as a watchman, guard or patrol service] without first obtaining a license from the Commissioner of Public Safety.

[N. A. Corbier]

[QUOTE=pramsey]*sigh* When state statute mandated background requirements make it illegal for any company to hire you...just buy your own car and call it "In-House Patrol"...lol

Not in the State of Connecticut if your hiring yourself out as being security, a license is required.

Legally in Connecticut " In House Security Officers " are not Security Officers legally i.e. PA 04-192 "Security officer" means the licensed and registered person hired to safeguard and protect persons and property.

Otherwise your committing an offense. No person shall engage in the business of, or solicit business as a private detective or [investigator or as a watchman, guard or patrol service or represent himself to be, hold himself out as] make representations to be or advertise as a private detective [or investigator] or as furnishing detective or investigating services [or as a watchman, guard or patrol service] without first obtaining a license from the Commissioner of Public Safety.

This is great and all, but we're talking about the State of Minnesota, where he is illegally employed as a security officer. The state statute governing security requires all persons employed, regardless of employee-employer relationship, to undergo a background check.

Violation of this statute is a gross misdemeanor. Amusingly enough... A private citizen may arrest for gross misdemeanors in presence. So, if another security officer found inhousehack driving around like that, they could lawfully place him under private arrest.

[Szorcsik001]

Violation of this statute is a gross misdemeanor. Amusingly enough... A private citizen may arrest for gross misdemeanors in presence. So, if another security officer found inhousehack driving around like that, they could lawfully place him under private arrest.

It would be a tough arrest. You would have to prove at the moment of the arrest that he was selling security services without possessing a protective agents license.

If he was truly an in-house officer, the onus falls on the employer. There is nothing that says if you have a felony conviction you can't apply for a position as a security officer. It simply says the employer must check and cannot hire you when the record comes back. Nothing on liability of the applicant.

But, you still made your point. And it's funny. :D

[exguard]

The Facilty I work at enforces traffic safety. We have approximatley 3500 employees on the 3 1/2 mile long facility and everything from cars, trucks, and buses to Heavy equipment, vacuum trucks, bicycles, and pedestrians. Sorry no golf carts, we broke 'em so they bought us F-150's.

We enforce our own traffic regulations - Seat-Belts, speeding, stop signs. We run radar, stop violators and issue tickets. Now these tickets are internal but each offense is worth one point....accumulate 6 points in one year means loss of driving privledge on the refinery for one year - Employee or contractor - everybody from senior management to the trash can cleaners are not excempt.

Some stops have accumulated all 6 points - Failure to Stop at a Stop Sign {1} No Seat Belt {1} Speeding {1} Talking on a cell phone {1} Reckless driving {1} and contraband in the vehicle {1} {Contrband being mostly Beer and alcohol smuggled into the facility by contractors} We'll tow the vehicle to our garage and process it into our data base - It's a mess by the time supervisors and shop stewards get involved but it's our rules and I'm paid to enforce them.

[N. A. Corbier]

Now, a lot of people would say, "They won't stop me, they're just security." But they fail to realize: You are on private property. Not only can they stop you, you gave them the authority to stop you when you signed a form as part of your entrance processing.

And, the big one... Heh... There's an entrance and exit gate. You're not going anywhere.

[EMTGuard]

It's been about a month. Anyone have any other photos to post? Come on folks. Let's see your ride.

[FlashLightCop]

We drive a new 2007 Jeep Liberty with the Whelen strobe light bar with green and blue lights.

[N. A. Corbier]

We drive a new 2007 Jeep Liberty with the Whelen strobe light bar with green and blue lights.

Yeah, what is it with Missouri and red/blue lights on security vehicles? How does that work?

[Crimkeeper1]

While in the USAF SP'S in the late 80's, we had k-cars. Then low and behold inthe last yearof chrysler's contract (1988), we had Gran Fury's, talk about style, radios and air conditioning with V-8 power. When I went to work for a Government contractor as a civilian with an in-house force we had full size K-5 Blazers for about a year, then we went to good old Plymouth Voyager Soccer Mom vans. It wasn't until 3 years later that we had gotten CVPI'S with the whelen strobe bars (Amber of course) and other accessories in them. We had used them up until I relocated back to N.E.P.A. to work Campus Security (Public Safety) at a local university where we drove S-10 Blazers with older style Blue and Red rotator light bars.

[FlashLightCop]

Yeah, what is it with Missouri and red/blue lights on security vehicles? How does that work?

I know that we cannot run red and blue lights as a combo. We use blue and green. Red to the best of my knowledge is reserved for true emergency services such as fire and law enforcement as well as ambulance service.

I did think it was wierd when I saw a few tow trucks in town with the red and blue combo though. Maybe tow trucks are allowed to run red and blue because they actually take part in cleaning up road side emergencies.

The blue lights that we run you have to have a permit for from the city fire chief, and green used to be a color for hazmat, but in recent years, green was made into a general use color to have available for light bar use.

We got away from using yellow lights though. That screams D.O.T.

[Crimkeeper1]

Here in the state of PA. in a lot of the private communities with their own in house depts., they run red and blue lights on their vehicles.

[N. A. Corbier]

Yeah, what is it with Missouri and red/blue lights on security vehicles? How does that work?

I know that we cannot run red and blue lights as a combo. We use blue and green. Red to the best of my knowledge is reserved for true emergency services such as fire and law enforcement as well as ambulance service.

I did think it was wierd when I saw a few tow trucks in town with the red and blue combo though. Maybe tow trucks are allowed to run red and blue because they actually take part in cleaning up road side emergencies.

The blue lights that we run you have to have a permit for from the city fire chief, and green used to be a color for hazmat, but in recent years, green was made into a general use color to have available for light bar use.

We got away from using yellow lights though. That screams D.O.T.

Ok, so Missouri is a "Red for LE" state. That would make sense. Since you have a permit from the fire chief, is your vehicle considered an emergency vehicle? It may actually BE an emergency vehicle due to that permit. :)

[tlangsr]

You know what they say....FORD
- Found On Road Dead
- Fix Or Repair Daily
- First On Rust & Dust
- First On Recalls & Dissatisfaction :D

hey hey my ford was a good little car.

[BadBoynMD]

I have the great pleasure of operating a black '05 Ford Crown Vic, with 15% tinted windows. :)

[Mr. Security]

hey hey my ford was a good little car.

Must have been made on a Tuesday or Thursday. ;)

[Mr. Security]

Chevy P/U. Nothing special, but at least I don't need to use my POV. :)

[FireEMSPolice]

In my security past job (I worked at a campus) we had/used

1992 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor...former Sheriffs vehicle in Ohio that was given to the Public Safety Academy, then given to Security and retired at 192K from security use. Sold to the campus chef.

1993 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor...former city police vehicle. Retired at 100K from security use. Sold to the Chief of Security's nephew.

1995 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor...A former Sheriffs vehicle in Ohio that was repainted by the campus body shop to be all silver. Currently in service with the Chief of Security as a school issued vehicle with 130K.

1996 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor...A former Ohio State Highway Patrol vehicle that was wrecked on the Ohio Turnpike. It was bought at State Auction and repaired by the campus body shop and repainted black. Currently in service as the Dean of Students school issued vehicle with about 130K

1997 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor...A former township police vehicle, it now serves as a training vehicle with the public safety academy with about 110K miles.

My current job

2002 Chevrolet Blazer 4 door with 96K miles. This is a "rolling billboard" :rolleyes: so we cannot permanent mount anything on it. It has a dealership decal on it from the dealer we bought it from. This is the biggest POS we have ever had.

2002 Ford Explorer XLS with 111K. I love this one the best as it has permanent mounted lights, lots of room, etc. We just repaired it and I love it.

[BadBoynMD]

Okay, yall want some GREAT lights for a GREAT price, eh? What if I told you that you can order a 14 inch long LED dash light for $120. :D :p :D

www.speedtechlights.com

[Charger]

What if I told you that you can order a 14 inch long LED dash light for $120.

I'd tell ya I can get some on Ebay for $90.. :D ehehe

[SSPine]

2006 Ford Explorer

[mh892]

Couple HumV's, Ford 4x4 3/4 ton, Chebby SUV 4x4 of some sort, and a 2007 Ford Ranger with 420 miles on it. It is common knowledge that one senior citezen fella drives the new Ranger, but with permission the supervisor may use it for a short period..........long as he doesn't take it off the hardtop, get it dirty, scratch it, cetra, cetra.;)

[midnitepatrol]

97 crown vic police intercepter and 2004 cvpi, the 97 is the one in my picture

[SHART1971]

I use a 2005 Ford Crown Victoria!!!

[tattedupboy]

I have to walk the entire time.

[SecTrainer]

It's very interesting to me that a lot of the vehicles SO's drive are not very fuel-efficient and some are downright hogs. Some like SUVs also have very high insurance premiums, don't they?

I would have expected a lot more emphasis on gas mileage and insurance premiums in the security domain, where every other expenditure (wages for instance!) seems to get scrutinized down to the half-penny.

[GCMC Security]

It's very interesting to me that a lot of the vehicles SO's drive are not very fuel-efficient and some are downright hogs. Some like SUVs also have very high insurance premiums, don't they?

I would have expected a lot more emphasis on gas mileage and insurance premiums in the security domain, where every other expenditure (wages for instance!) seems to get scrutinized down to the half-penny.

They don't have to worry about saving money on gas because of all the money they save paying officer's like crap!

[bigdog]

our mall just got one of those POS gem cars.

[Hank1]

I drive a 2006 Ford Crown Victoria like most of the officers. Others drive Chevy Impalas as well.

Be safe,

Hank

[copelandamuffy]

Chevrolet Cavalier. 1999.206,000 miles

[EMTGuard]

Bumping back up so that others will see it and post decriptions, and hopefully, photos of their rides.

[CAPTAIN KOOLAID]

A Chevy caprice 1994 fully loaded. It has cornering, grill, dash, rear deck lights front and rear flasher and a arrow stick. As well as push bars spot light and cage also slowing repairing restoring it.

[ChuckyZ73]

Well they were not hosted by me and were removed LOL!

[EMTGuard]

Chucky, NICE vehicles. Thanks for the pics. Anyone else?

[Hank1]

Chuky!
Very nice squads you have there!

Be safe,

Hank

[Charger]

This is a lower-quality pic of my new ride at work.. (Taken with my camera phone, sorry.. lol)

There are hi-res pics of the other cars at the company site (http://www.columbiasecurity.net)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/Chikan69/660A0025.jpg

We have 4 of these now, all with the (so-called) high-tech LED lightbars... The older cars all have MX7000s with rotators.

[ValleyOne]

The MX7000 is a personal fav due to it's plethera of options, however, what type of "High End" (:D ) LEDs you guys running???

[JSam21]

We drive 2006 Impala's. The other department on our campus, just got 2007 Dodge Chargers... I for one am envyous.

[EMTGuard]

I'm also envious of SOs who get the use of marked, professional vehicles which, as others have pointed out, act as rolling billboards for your company. My company doesn't have any patrol vehicles. They require the CLIENT to provide the vehicle if patrols are necessary. Most of the time the facility will have a old, rundown vehicle that has been riding around the plant for years with little to no upkeep. So the Client will assign the beater to the Guards as a patrol car. No SECURITY decal or markings, no lightbar or spotlight. Don't complain about the lack of air conditioning. Just be glad the exhaust fumes don't kill you before you finish your rounds.
At my current assignment the SOs normally do patrols in an old Plymoth Voyager minivan but it stopped running this week. So somebody found this POS Chevy Lumina minivan
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m229/cellblock776/patrolvan02.jpg
parked in a parking lot somewhere and decided to let the Guards have it for the weekend patrols. Well it didn't run worth a darn either and sat parked all weekend.
Those of you who have professional looking, marked company vehicles, take care of them and be proud. There are many of us who wish we had what you drive.

Steve

[Charger]

The MX7000 is a personal fav due to it's plethera of options, however, what type of "High End" (:D ) LEDs you guys running???

Well, I'm a fan of the MX7000 as well, in it's "all light" configuration... The ones on our cars are NOT.. (They have the metal center section with a cutout for a speaker... No clue why, as we don't have sirens.. lol)

The new LED bars are ok, I suppose... They serve their purpose... They're just too darn dim in my opinion.. (They're GEN I LEDs)

They're some off-brand (Chinese, I believe) knock-off called "The Firefly".. They DO have a built-in traffic adviser, which is nice.. But as I said, the LEDs are the older dim style, and the alleys/takedowns SUCK.. They tried replacing an alley light with a brighter bulb, just to see if it would work better, and it ended up melting the lense.. LOL

So I guess on a note to company owners looking at purchasing LED lightbars: You get what you pay for! If you want a good bar, spend the money on a GOOD bar.. :D

[doulos Christou]

You also have a statute that authorizes private citizens to make arrests for violations of misdemeanor offenses committed in their presence, and felonies for probable cause.

In Texas for sure. We (SO's or civvies) can only arrest for felonies comitted in our presence or view, breach of peace, or to prevent the consequences of theft.

[Hank1]

Just as soon as I can, I will post a couple of pictures of our vehicles.

Be safe,

Hank

[Echos13]

My company just got threw putting the new lettering on all the TWC jeeps. G4S looks cool up close but it's hard to figure out what it is at a distance. The DOT Captains got those (which by they way will be eliminated by 9/30). All we get is a lawn chair and a old podium. They want us to put placards on our POVs. Most of us said no because some of us just bought new cars. Not to mention what would happen if my insurance company found out. I saw some company yesterday on the interstate using Chevy SUV Trackers. What got my attention in large blue lettering across the entire side was printed "ENFORCEMENT". The badge was hard to see. On I-4 you tend to concentrate on driving rather than sight seeing.

[EMTGuard]

They want us to put placards on our POVs. Most of us said no because some of us just bought new cars. Not to mention what would happen if my insurance company found out. New car or not, always say no unless they are paying you a bonus for use of POV. As you mentioned, if your insurance company learns you are using your POV for business your rates can increase. Everytime I've gotten a new policy the insurance agent asked if the car was used for business/work.
And don't forget the thing we have talked about here before, rolling billboards. If my company, or anyone else for that matter, wants to pay me a agreed upon fee for advertizing on my car then I have no problem with placarding my car like a NASCAR reject. No extra money, no advertising.

[N. A. Corbier]

You are not covered if you use your vehicle for business purposes and are involved in an accident. You have lied on your application, and are in default.

Officially, my car goes to work and sits there, without being touched, till I go home.

I have never put magnetic signs or anything on my personal vehicle.

[gcmc security part 2]

I'm also envious of SOs who get the use of marked, professional vehicles which, as others have pointed out, act as rolling billboards for your company. My company doesn't have any patrol vehicles. They require the CLIENT to provide the vehicle if patrols are necessary. Most of the time the facility will have a old, rundown vehicle that has been riding around the plant for years with little to no upkeep. So the Client will assign the beater to the Guards as a patrol car. No SECURITY decal or markings, no lightbar or spotlight. Don't complain about the lack of air conditioning. Just be glad the exhaust fumes don't kill you before you finish your rounds.
At my current assignment the SOs normally do patrols in an old Plymoth Voyager minivan but it stopped running this week. So somebody found this POS Chevy Lumina minivan
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m229/cellblock776/patrolvan02.jpg
parked in a parking lot somewhere and decided to let the Guards have it for the weekend patrols. Well it didn't run worth a darn either and sat parked all weekend.
Those of you who have professional looking, marked company vehicles, take care of them and be proud. There are many of us who wish we had what you drive.

Steve

Please, You have us beat. This van has more dents in it than a demolition derby car. 1 headlight, no taillights, interior door panels are falling off, and spends more time in the shop than it does on the road. :mad:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/stillamarine1775/pic081907_1.jpg

[Lawson]

You all have me beat. Here's my patrol vehicle.



http://practicallynothing.oxyfx.com/uploaded_images/Feet-761353.jpg

[Blade Runner]

When I first did vehicle patrol, it was in a White Ford Exploder(er, Explorer) with Setec Courtesy Patrol on the doors in dark blue, and an all blue lightbar. Later on, at the Galleria, it was an Escape, and a golf cart. The last patrol vehicle was an Escape as well, with a Whelen 9000 8-head light bar, all blue, with takedowns and alleys. We also had a Whelen full function siren with p.a. function. This was for a high-end retail facility that covered 30 acres.
You can partially see an example of one of the Explorers here....
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/playsinmud/h-main_img.jpg

[Curtis Baillie]

GCMC Security Part 2 - Many moons ago I worked for NASA Security and was assigned a marked vehicle. This was a very used vehicle and had a number of safety related problems. I was required to drive this vehicle daily on and off the installation. After unsuccessfully trying to get the NASA motor pool to fix, the problems I was traveling off post one day and flagged down a police officer who agreed to inspect and give me a 72-hour violation notice to get the repairs done. It worked - NASA provided me with a new vehicle. They junked the 1965 Plymouth Fury. It's now probably a part of one of the Space Shuttles.:D

[Norwegian_vaktservice]

Mostly standard family cars with VHF radio and maybe a MagCharger if yor are lucky :)

[gcmc security part 2]

GCMC Security Part 2 - Many moons ago I worked for NASA Security and was assigned a marked vehicle. This was a very used vehicle and had a number of safety related problems. I was required to drive this vehicle daily on and off the installation. After unsuccessfully trying to get the NASA motor pool to fix, the problems I was traveling off post one day and flagged down a police officer who agreed to inspect and give me a 72-hour violation notice to get the repairs done. It worked - NASA provided me with a new vehicle. They junked the 1965 Plymouth Fury. It's now probably a part of one of the Space Shuttles.:D

Hmm That's a great idea! :D

[The Hussard]

they dont provide lunar jeep at the NASA :p

[Curtis Baillie]

they dont provide lunar jeep at the NASA :pWhen I worked for them Skylab was being developed and tested at the facility I worked out of. It was a fantastic place to work - never a dull moment.

[FireEMSPolice]

I just got word we are getting a 2008 Honda CR-V with the dealers ad on the side of it.

[Curtis Baillie]

That's becoming more popular. Some police departments have moved to that as a cost saving move when buying patrol cars.

[Bill Warnock]

GCMC Security Part 2 - Many moons ago I worked for NASA Security and was assigned a marked vehicle. This was a very used vehicle and had a number of safety related problems. I was required to drive this vehicle daily on and off the installation. After unsuccessfully trying to get the NASA motor pool to fix, the problems I was traveling off post one day and flagged down a police officer who agreed to inspect and give me a 72-hour violation notice to get the repairs done. It worked - NASA provided me with a new vehicle. They junked the 1965 Plymouth Fury. It's now probably a part of one of the Space Shuttles.:D
Curtis when I was in the inspection business, things were so bad, signs were posted in military vehicles, "Not to be driven off the base for any reason."
In lieu of brake pedals in some vehicles, towels were to be used to be remove moisture from the operator's feet.
Not getting done, I passed this tidbit to the TIG and sat back to watch the fur fly.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[EMTGuard]

Well, the regular patrol van is out of the shop.
Here's a photo of it I took this week -
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m229/cellblock776/hrvan.jpg
A Dodge minivan with, of course, no markings to tell anyone it's a security partol vehicle making rounds in the plant. Actually, it's in better condition than just about anything else in the plant. It was bought for use by the Human Resources department for hauling around VIPs and visitors when the place was up for sale. Though we use it for security patrols, it's still referred to as the Human Resorces or HR van.

[Curtis Baillie]

Put some flames on that bad boy!

[Blade Runner]

Good idea, Curtis!! Or, there's always this......................



http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/playsinmud/apc_dodge_grand_caravan.jpg


http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb98/playsinmud/040703152524.jpg

[Curtis Baillie]

Nice van, but does it have a hemi?

http://www.jonreep.com/videoShowPromo.php

[Black Caesar]

A pic from one of our sister campuses (no pics from ours yet).
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m28/Black_Caesar/flagdetail.jpg
---
A few more (the one on the far right is the new decal job, the one next to it and in the 1st pic are the old layouts).
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m28/Black_Caesar/fleet.jpg

[jbaerbock]

We just got an upgrade to a brand new 2007 Chevy Colorado Pickup with lined bed and a big tool box. Before that we had a burgundy Buick Century which always overheated even in the winter time.

[Echos13]

We got these a week ago. But we are going to Dodge Nitros come '08. Wonder if they will have a Hemi! :rolleyes:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL913/4314969/17959564/281143064.jpg

[EMTGuard]

Two things.
First- Nice looking ride. Thanks for posting the photo.
Second- Thanks for finding this thread and adding to it instead of starting a new thread on this topic.

[gcmc security part 2]

We got these a week ago. But we are going to Dodge Nitros come '08. Wonder if they will have a Hemi! :rolleyes:

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL913/4314969/17959564/281143064.jpg

No the Nitros don't have hemis, they are gas hogs, and ours is cursed.

We had it for less then a month when a drunk chick pulled out of the bar across the parking lot from our office and slammed into it broadside....in reverse....going an estimated 20-30 mph.

Insurance did not total it. It was in the shop for about 3 months. Day after we get it back, our GM and Ops Manager were going to a client visit and at 2 separate red lights people got out of their vehicles to tell the Ops Manager that the back right wheel was wobbling so bad that it looked like it was going to fall off. So it went back IN the shop for another 2 weeks. We got it back last Friday and whoa and behold we get a recall notice in the mail for some computer problem that apparently will shut the vehicle completely down.

So Ops Manager schedules to get it fixed tomorrow. Today he goes out to make a sales call and 10 minutes out of the office and gets into an accident with it!

This is a retired Pennsylvania cop, who has been involved in pursuits, been driving for many years and has never had an accident in his life!

I tell you that dang thing is cursed! Nope I'll stick with the Ranger.

BTW Glad to see that you got the Amber/Green lights....bad thing is in the pic they almost look like Red/Blue.

[N. A. Corbier]

At first glanc, they did look red and blue. I hope nobody's going to complain, but even if they do, it'll take at least 2 years to change the law back.

Its also heartwarming to see a G4S branch actually order a green cover, even if it is for an ancient Streethawk. :)

[Echos13]

At first glanc, they did look red and blue. I hope nobody's going to complain, but even if they do, it'll take at least 2 years to change the law back.

Its also heartwarming to see a G4S branch actually order a green cover, even if it is for an ancient Streethawk. :)


I have to admit I was surprised when I saw them all lined up at the office. Jeeps! And the lights too. We have had compliments from few Troopers on the Jeeps. And the lights too during a few operations on the interstate. They say it's nice to be able to tell the difference between us and a tow truck. As for the law. Who knows maybe they will leave it alone. Oh, yea. I did drop a hint about the new LED look at the division office. I guess we are lucky to have got the green covers and the Jeeps as it is.

Now. If they would just give us nines, an office and a pension. Oh, yea I know that's pusing it.

[N. A. Corbier]

Well, the green is a value added service, since people can tell its actually security now. :)

[EH126]

Ford Escapes where I'm at. Just about perfect for what we do to be honest; though I do wish that we had a more durable interior. :o

[ValleyOne]

Now. If they would just give us nines
Huh, what?

[doulos Christou]

the ugliest shade of yellow on earth, painted on a ragged out fleet of Nissan Frontier pick-ups. All with 5-spd. stick trannies. Also included in this package is the crappy yellow/amber unknown brand lightbar that works when it feels like it (ever heard the one about hell freezing over?) I would rather walk my patrol route...

[ChuckyZ73]

I dont have to See below

http://www.essitexas.com/images/pagelayout/logo_masthead.jpg

[doulos Christou]

you work for executive?

[N. A. Corbier]

Huh, what?

Wackenhut in Florida is still issuing the .38 caliber or .357 caliber revolver with .38 Special ammunition. Security recently was authorized to carry 9mm semi-autos without the coveted special waiver.

[ChuckyZ73]

you work for executive?

No that was just the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post.
Here are my cars. http://forums.securityinfowatch.com/showpost.php?p=37012&postcount=288

[ValleyOne]

Wackenhut in Florida is still issuing the .38 caliber or .357 caliber revolver with .38 Special ammunition. Security recently was authorized to carry 9mm semi-autos without the coveted special waiver.

Thanks. Why is Florida so restrictive on S/O's?

[NRM_Oz]

The companies I did patrol work in between other things used the equivalent of a Geo Metro (Daihatsu Charade) with a 1.3 litre engine or Suzuki Vitara mini 4wd with a 1.6 litre engine. With fuel at $4.00 US a gallon - running costs are very important.

My 2 patrols I had were about $20kUS each when kitted out with signage and were 4 door midsizes and the person who bought them off me has them on their 3rd engines now but can't complain about the reliability. For the aussies they were Nissan Pulsars.

[N. A. Corbier]

Thanks. Why is Florida so restrictive on S/O's?

Because we invented America's security licensing in the 1970s. :) NASIR, where everyone looks to for guidance, was founded by the first Director of the Division of Licensing of the State of Florida.

Security legislation, Chapter 493, is extremely reactionary. In the 1970s, you could carry a Winchester (Repeating Rifle) as a guard. That was taken away and all you could carry was a .38 revolver without special permission in the late 70s.

It used to be you could use colored lights off public roads. Chapter 493 ensured that any light color, ANY light color, other than amber was illegal to possess for a licensed security guard/officer. (93 turned guards into Officers under state statute, but in name only, no vested powers)

It used to be that security personnel could use force to protect property under Florida Statutes 775, just like any other citizen. Something must of happened, because FSS 493.6118(j) ensures that its a crime to use force to do anything but protect people from physical attack.

Reactionary legislation, that's all. As the climate in Tallahassee improves towards security and more lobbyists are in place for the industry, the laws will be repealed or altered.

[FireEMSPolice]

We just got a 2007 Honda CR-V to replace our crappy 2002 Chevrolet Blazer. Unfortunately, in order to get this truck (valued at $28K) for $1.00, it must be a rolling billboard :mad:. So the sponsor put clouds and their dealership building on the side of it. It also sports a chinese knock-off lightbar from Uniform Warehouse.

[BadBoynMD]

Wackenhut in Florida is still issuing the .38 caliber or .357 caliber revolver with .38 Special ammunition. Security recently was authorized to carry 9mm semi-autos without the coveted special waiver.

Same for out here in Maryland. I think it's standard for Wackenhut...atleast it seems...

[N. A. Corbier]

I think it is, I think they have thousands of .38s nationwide, and only use semi-autos when contracts require them. :)

[Echos13]

Most of them are retired LEO guns. Some are "new" TWC guns in their time. Compared to the amount of CPOs they have actually working to that of stock piled .38s you think they could trade two in for a decent semi. One CPO traced his back to a small police department town in Missouri. Going back 16 years! Gee, wonder how old the ammo is? :rolleyes:

[gcmc security part 2]

Most of them are retired LEO guns. Some are "new" TWC guns in their time. Compared to the amount of CPOs they have actually working to that of stock piled .38s you think they could trade two in for a decent semi. One CPO traced his back to a small police department town in Missouri. Going back 16 years! Gee, wonder how old the ammo is? :rolleyes:

At our office, never older than a year. We replace everyones issued rounds yearly.

[N. A. Corbier]

I cleaned a supervisor's weapon, a .38 Colt Trooper from NYSP, once. (He wasn't good at cleaning the layer of rust, I cleaned it, sealed it, and reblued it for him. Helps when you dad was a reloader, armorer, and built his own rifles.)

It was determined the weapon was about 50 years old.

[BadBoynMD]

At our office, never older than a year. We replace everyones issued rounds yearly.

Thanks for reminding me, I gotta replace my ammo LOL

[Bill Warnock]

Speaking of ammo, just to be on the safe side ensure you turn boxes of ammo from right side up to bottom side up every couple of months. In that way the powder will not pack within the cartridges.
We learned that in the Air Police Academy. It can be a pain when you are doing this to air base defense ammo, but well worth it in the long run.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[HotelSecurity]

Speaking of ammo, just to be on the safe side ensure you turn boxes of ammo from right side up to bottom side up every couple of months. In that way the powder will not pack within the cartridges.
We learned that in the Air Police Academy. It can be a pain when you are doing this to air base defense ammo, but well worth it in the long run.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

Way off of the original topic but along the lines of Bill's post. Don't forget to turn upside down, shake & tap your dry chemical fire extinguishers once in a while for the reason as in Bill's post.

[Badge714]

Our company has Chevy Impalas which are slowly being replaced with Dodge Chargers. Some areas have led light bars on the cars. At the mines we use Dodge Ram crew cab pickups with red/blue light bars.
Here in the hinterlands, I have a Chevy Impala with 160,000 on it. I'll be getting a hand-me-down Charger next year, maybe.

[Bill Warnock]

Way off of the original topic but along the lines of Bill's post. Don't forget to turn upside down, shake & tap your dry chemical fire extinguishers once in a while for the reason as in Bill's post.
Thank you young man, another item for the security guide, with your credit.
Enjoy the day and thanks again,
Bill

[BadBoynMD]

Our company has Chevy Impalas which are slowly being replaced with Dodge Chargers. Some areas have led light bars on the cars. At the mines we use Dodge Ram crew cab pickups with red/blue light bars.
Here in the hinterlands, I have a Chevy Impala with 160,000 on it. I'll be getting a hand-me-down Charger next year, maybe.

I'm looking at an Impala, but can't stop thinking about getting a charger. However, i'll most likely will end up with the Impala.

[bigdog]

At first glanc, they did look red and blue. I hope nobody's going to complain, but even if they do, it'll take at least 2 years to change the law back.

Its also heartwarming to see a G4S branch actually order a green cover, even if it is for an ancient Streethawk. :)

One PPPD officer I know is already bitching that the forest green lightbars look blue at night when not activated.

[BadBoynMD]

One PPPD officer I know is already bitching that the forest green lightbars look blue at night when not activated.

Tell 'em to build a bridge and get over it. :D

[Echos13]

One PPPD officer I know is already bitching that the forest green lightbars look blue at night when not activated.


Typical blue line reacting over green.

-nuff said.

[N. A. Corbier]

One PPPD officer I know is already bitching that the forest green lightbars look blue at night when not activated.

Probably someone hoping to make some felony impersonation stops and up his felony arrest quota, then getting mad because every time he blinds the driver/lights up the car with the spot, its green.

[BadBoynMD]

I went and looked at some police package Tahoe's today. Man let me tell you how tempting it was to get it. The black with the black rims is just 10-8... so so so so so tempting.

[Miami-Dade]

We use all Crown Victorias now.We had Impalas but the upkeep on FWD cars is much more then rear wheel drive cars.More so after 100k miles like when we get them.The upkeep for the Crown Vic is overall low and they will last over 200k miles if you take care of it and have it properly serviced.We get them from the police department with over 100k miles on them.The one I am using now is a 98 and has 280k miles on it and it runs great and the A/C is nice and cold in the jungle Miami heat.

We never tried the Charger mostly due to fact that DCX cars have proved to be troublesome cars in the long run.

The boss had a rental Charger a few weeks ago and drove it and found it had allot of blind spots and the small windsheild made it hard to see the traffic lights.

I have a 99 Crown Vic for my personnel car and it has over 200k miles on it and plan on keeping it for awhile.

[Hank1]

One PPPD officer I know is already bitching that the forest green lightbars look blue at night when not activated.

Dog~
I ran into the same problem you did. A Tampa Police Officer, while issuing a trespass warning for me, asked when we (CIS) went to green / amber light bars. I told him July 1st. He informed me that we (CIS) should not have the green light bars because at night it looks blue. I told him that it was permissable by law and he is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. I also told him that any security agency, not only CIS can go to green/amber combo if they wish to. To my knowledge, there is only one other agency with the amber/green light bars in the Tampa Bay/ Clearwater area ( I think he thought only CIS had the new lights). He replied that you guys " are not cops"! I rolled my eyes and asked him for my copy of the trepass warning. NOw keep in mind, this conversation (his rant) took place while in the presence of the subject being trespassed. I told the subject to beat feet and thanked the TPD Officer for his "Help".

Be safe,

Hank

[Echos13]

Well, that is TPD of course. :rolleyes:

[N. A. Corbier]

TPD: "This security guard can't touch you, he can only call the police. And if I find you on the property, I'll arrest you!"
Me: "Hey, I need to talk to your corporal about something, can you have her meet me?"
Corporal (After a quiet chat): "Do not tell people this security guard cannot touch people. That's not a law."

[HotelSecurity]

TPD: "This security guard can't touch you, he can only call the police. And if I find you on the property, I'll arrest you!"
Me: "Hey, I need to talk to your corporal about something, can you have her meet me?"
Corporal (After a quiet chat): "Do not tell people this security guard cannot touch people. That's not a law."

How about, in front of the victim of a car theft. "Not another one, we are always coming to the hotel for car thefts".

[bigdog]

Dog~
I ran into the same problem you did. A Tampa Police Officer, while issuing a trespass warning for me, asked when we (CIS) went to green / amber light bars. I told him July 1st. He informed me that we (CIS) should not have the green light bars because at night it looks blue. I told him that it was permissable by law and he is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. I also told him that any security agency, not only CIS can go to green/amber combo if they wish to. To my knowledge, there is only one other agency with the amber/green light bars in the Tampa Bay/ Clearwater area ( I think he thought only CIS had the new lights). He replied that you guys " are not cops"! I rolled my eyes and asked him for my copy of the trepass warning. NOw keep in mind, this conversation (his rant) took place while in the presence of the subject being trespassed. I told the subject to beat feet and thanked the TPD Officer for his "Help".

Be safe,

Hank

CIS uses strobe lightbars on their vehicles right?

[bigdog]

TPD: "This security guard can't touch you, he can only call the police. And if I find you on the property, I'll arrest you!"
Me: "Hey, I need to talk to your corporal about something, can you have her meet me?"
Corporal (After a quiet chat): "Do not tell people this security guard cannot touch people. That's not a law."

One that note, Hank have you ever had a law enforcement agency to arrest a person you detained because "you are not a cop and cant arrest people"?

[Hank1]

CIS uses strobe lightbars on their vehicles right?

We use them for the take downs and alley lights. We also use them to locate one another in a emergency situations in low light areas.

Be safe,

Hank

[bigdog]

[quote=Hank1;41694]We use them for the take downs and alley lights. We also use them to locate one another in a emergency situations in low light areas.

Be safe,

Hank[

Are on the vehicles like the ones in this picture but green and yellow instead? Or are the colors only visible when the lights are turned on?


http://www.cisworldservices.com/gallerypics/ca-rT0001.jpg

[Hank1]

One that note, Hank have you ever had a law enforcement agency to arrest a person you detained because "you are not a cop and cant arrest people"?

Dog...
I can honestly say I have never heard that first hand.

[bigdog]

Dog...
I can honestly say I have never heard that first hand.
SOrry i forget to put refuse. the question was has LE ever refused to arrest someone you detained cause your not LE?

[Andy Taylor]

The laws in different states are interesting. Here in CA we can not detain but we can arrest. (Except for shoplifting) It used to be that an LE officer was guilty of a misdemeanor if he/she refused to take a citizen's arrest. Unfortunately that was changed a few years ago, although I am not aware of any GOOD arrests that have been refused.

[Hank1]

SOrry i forget to put refuse. the question was has LE ever refused to arrest someone you detained cause your not LE?

No sir! Everyone I have detained for violent crimes has been arrested. I have copies of subpoenas to prove it! LOL!

Be Safe,

Hank

[HotelSecurity]

SOrry i forget to put refuse. the question was has LE ever refused to arrest someone you detained cause your not LE?

New Years Eve in downtown Montreal is a zoo. The police are so busy they go to the call, break up the fight & move on. The record the names of the people involved. If you want someone arrested you have to go the next day to a police station & file a report. (Unless it is a major crime).

[badge212]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/jwrodriguez/Truck3.jpg
Sorry the picture isn't all that great just thought i'd share . . .
We've got two of these and since I took these photos we've added our spotlights and headache racks

[sgtnewby]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/jwrodriguez/Truck3.jpg
Sorry the picture isn't all that great just thought i'd share . . .

That's pretty cool, I wish we could get a 4x4 for our hospital. It would come in handy for those days of 3 feet of snow on the roads...

Question for ya 212, what do you folks carry for defensive tools at your hospital? And, have you heard of any hospital security departments in TX that have k9?

[badge212]

For us it's just baton, handcuffs and training for now. All our officers are commissioned but are not allowed to carry firearms. We are transitioning into an armed department next year it's just a budgetary & clientele matter. Most of guys are prior le or military le. Two are reserve peace officers as well.. go figure.

As for the K9 I cannot think of any in the area but I'll ask, I would think some of the departments in Houston or Dallas would probably have it.

[sgtnewby]

For us it's just baton, handcuffs and training for now. All our officers are commissioned but are not allowed to carry firearms. We are transitioning into an armed department next year it's just a budgetary & clientele matter. Most of guys are prior le or military le. Two are reserve peace officers as well.. go figure.

As for the K9 I cannot think of any in the area but I'll ask, I would think some of the departments in Houston or Dallas would probably have it.

I've been researching the hospital security k9 thing for 3 years, our hospital is amzingly taking a serious look at it. We have a hospital k9 team from Michigan coming down here for a week sometime soon but the wheels turn very slow around here. I have found 31 hoapitals across the country that have them but I have heard rumors that there are some hospitals in Nevada and Texas with k9's. I just haven't found them yet.

[Badge714]

We just bought 3 more of these:

[sgtnewby]

We just bought 3 more of these:

How do you get away with having red and blue lightbars?

[Badge714]

How do you get away with having red and blue lightbars?

That particular truck is used on mining company property. The officers there perform speed enforcement on the mining roads using radar. Also, they perform fire dept and EMS functions at the mines and use the lights for runs.

[sgtnewby]

That particular truck is used on mining company property. The officers there perform speed enforcement on the mining roads using radar. Also, they perform fire dept and EMS functions at the mines and use the lights for runs.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh..................... Ok:)

[Craig S]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9103/frontofcaddyvi7.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/274/sideofcaddycn0.jpg
This is our Cadillac...we only use it for relieving each other or responding to a call.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/893/soneyandmedg2.jpg
My partner and I showing off the Cadillac...I'm on the back.

Sorry for the scanned pics.

[Charger]

Ahh yes, the good ol' days of patrolling on a golf cart... I feel your pain.. :D

[Lawson]

It always makes me chuckle when I see someone put on a jacket and roll up the sleeves.

[N. A. Corbier]

Depending on who that company is, the jacket could be 3 sizes too large. :)

[Hank1]

It always makes me chuckle when I see someone put on a jacket and roll up the sleeves.

Ahhhhh....reminds me of the "members only jacket" days. OOPS! Did I say that out loud? LOL!

[Mr. Security]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9103/frontofcaddyvi7.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/274/sideofcaddycn0.jpg
This is our Cadillac...we only use it for relieving each other or responding to a call.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/893/soneyandmedg2.jpg
My partner and I showing off the Cadillac...I'm on the back.

Sorry for the scanned pics.

I guess you don't have to worry about pursuits...:D

[Craig S]

Top speed is approximately 30 mph, I have almost flipped it a couple of times. We rarely use the thing. But you have to admit the rims are a nice touch!:D

[jeff194307]

In about an hour, I will attend a meeting with our client. On the top of the list of agenda is "use of gators vs cars". The client rep has made it very clear that he favors using gators, we have made it clear that because of the noise from the gator we do not always hear the radio and cell phone. I feel that the car works much better in giving the ability to quickly respond to calls on campus without announcing that security is en-route from a block away. The gators only give prior warning that security is in the area, enabeling offenders to flee before being identified.

[bigdog]

Top speed is approximately 30 mph, I have almost flipped it a couple of times. We rarely use the thing. But you have to admit the rims are a nice touch!:D

Doing obstacle avoidance drills or checking if it can turn on a dime?;)

[Craig S]

Doing obstacle avoidance drills or checking if it can turn on a dime?;)

Yeah, that's the ticket!:D

[HotelSecurity]

I feel that the car works much better in giving the ability to quickly respond to calls on campus without announcing that security is en-route from a block away. The gators only give prior warning that security is in the area, enabeling offenders to flee before being identified.

It might sound strange coming from someone who has worked more than 30 years in orivate security, but what is wrong with that? For the most part our job is to prevent crime, leave arresting criminals to the police. They have the budget to cover when their Officers go to court, I'd rather just prevent the crime & not have to worry about replacing someone who has to take off to go to court.

[N. A. Corbier]

It might sound strange coming from someone who has worked more than 30 years in orivate security, but what is wrong with that? For the most part our job is to prevent crime, leave arresting criminals to the police. They have the budget to cover when their Officers go to court, I'd rather just prevent the crime & not have to worry about replacing someone who has to take off to go to court.

With something that loud, its less a deterrent and more a "we know where the guards are, lets do this thing, man." Hear the gator, hide. Gator gone? Return to what you're doing.

[jeff194307]

you got it Nathan, that is exactely what is wrong with using the gator for patrol. Maintenance uses them during the day to pick up trash, etc and they are fine for that, but we are having a hard time getting the client to come around to our way of thinking. We told them today at their meeting how some of the things we have caught would not have been caught if we were on the gators.

[junkyarddog]

For me, it has been small pickup trucks and the occasional Queen Victoria. ;)
Most of which have been older than my oldest underwear I dare to wear. :p

We have 7 SUVs, 3 ford excursions, 4 ford escapes. The escapes are white and detailed with blue and black, made to look like obvious security vehicles. The excursions are plain black and made to look as subtle as possible. The vehicles are all awesome to work out of but we put so many miles on them that there is always at least 1 in the shop.

[ValleyOne]

To touch on the Gator issue, my primary concern would be protection from the environment. Hot days, or even harsh cold days can take their toll on any Officer. Not to mention doing your rounds while sitting a puddle the whole time would just plain ole suck...

Besides, a car/truck gives more advantages to store paper work, equipment and the like.

[jeff194307]

Well folks, we have semi prevailed on this. We may now use our private vehicles for patrol. The college legal dept has reviewed our written waivers and accepted them. Secondary problem we are requird to provide escorts for students from off campus parking lots, etc.however, the same legal team refuses to allow the use of our vehicles for this task. Now we are asked to provide the escorts using the gators which are not street legal vehicles and to add to that, because of a recent fatal accident involving a gator like vehicle, the city police have forbidden driving gators on sidewalks. How are we to do our required tasks?

[Mr. Security]

Well folks, we have semi prevailed on this. We may now use our private vehicles for patrol. The college legal dept has reviewed our written waivers and accepted them. Secondary problem we are requird to provide escorts for students from off campus parking lots, etc.however, the same legal team refuses to allow the use of our vehicles for this task. Now we are asked to provide the escorts using the gators which are not street legal vehicles and to add to that, because of a recent fatal accident involving a gator like vehicle, the city police have forbidden driving gators on sidewalks. How are we to do our required tasks?


How far is it to walk? May not be practical, but I have to ask.

[jeff194307]

Some of the areas are more than a mile from campus, and remember this is Illinois where cold weather and snow are common

[Hank1]

Folks! I have had 3 pictures taken of my squad recently, from different angles. As soon as I figure out how to post them, I will.


Be Safe,

Hank

[BadBoynMD]

Folks! I have had 3 pictures taken of my squad recently, from different angles. As soon as I figure out how to post them, I will.


Be Safe,

Hank

Good deal, Hank!

[Hank1]

Good deal, Hank!

Bad~
I am not a IT oriented type of guy. I know just enough to get into trouble. I need some help from my people. Standby!

Be Safe,

Hank

[badge212]

Any one using GEM's on their site or for their comapny? I've heard good things but not from anyone in a security functionhttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/jwrodriguez/p-gsa-fleet-homepage-es-security.jpg

[sgtnewby]

Here's a "little" collection for ya. Enjoy!

[sgtnewby]

Here's part two.

[sgtnewby]

Here's part three.

[Hank1]

Here's part three.

Sgt.....I just can't see myself driving (let alone sitting in) one of those things. I am too much of a tradionalist I suppose.

Be Safe,

Hank

[HotelSecurity]

Here's part two.

FYI the Montreal Bombardier vehicle is photogrphed in front of the former US pavilion from Expo 67!

[integrator97]

Can anyone be taken seriously as a security or LE officer in one of those. I guess the perps are to busy rofl to get away. :)

When I was Navy Security Force at Naval Weapons Station Concord, we were the first NSF, taking over from the Marines. So we worked for them till we had enough personnell assigned, then they worked for us till we were 100%. Anyway, we inherited everything but weapons pretty much. Our vehicles were Ford Rangers on a 2 year lease. Now, some posts had alot of buildings to check, one had 106 stops in 6 hours. Pretty hard on them, doing that twice a day.

So as the vehicles became shot before the two years, we picked some up from salvage at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. We had this 73 chevy pickup, (this was about '88), and I was SOG (Sargent of the Guard) and had just pulled up to mobile 24 in the 73 chevy. As he hit the brakes, a pully fell off and rolled out in front of him :eek: . Mobile 24 was now on foot. :)

[HotelSecurity]

The Montreal Police have 2 or 3 of those little Bombardier vehicles. They are used in parks, during sidewalk sales etc. They are not used for everyday patrol.

[geordiekimbo]

The car I most drive at my place is an 07 plate Vauxhaul Zafira in black. It has about 3k on the clock.

If thats unavailable there's usually a silver 56 plate Vauxhaul Zafira to use as a back up. Its a bit crapper than the '07 to drive...gears are looser and its always dirty inside as its more of a general utility vehicle

[integrator97]

The car I most drive at my place is an 07 plate Vauxhaul Zafira in black. It has about 3k on the clock.

If thats unavailable there's usually a silver 56 plate Vauxhaul Zafira to use as a back up. Its a bit crapper than the '07 to drive...gears are looser and its always dirty inside as its more of a general utility vehicle

So I looked up the website. But what's this '07 plate and '56 plate? That's not the year is it? Sorry, but that's not yank lingo :)

[geordiekimbo]

the last part of the license plate is the year... the first part is currently the month in which the vehcile is licensed... the 0 corresponds to April and the 5 is September...

thats the way out license plates have worked for 7 years...

01 (april 2001)
51 (sept 2001)
02 (april 2002)
52 (sept 2002)
and so on

sorry about the confusion.

[integrator97]

the last part of the license plate is the year... the first part is currently the month in which the vehcile is licensed... the 0 corresponds to April and the 5 is September...

thats the way out license plates have worked for 7 years...

01 (april 2001)
51 (sept 2001)
02 (april 2002)
52 (sept 2002)
and so on

sorry about the confusion.
Hey, I always say "you learn something new everyday". It definitely holds true for me, and I'm 45 y/o. I'm curious as to why April is 0 and not January? Obviously a British thing, but you use the same calender, soooo.....?

[geordiekimbo]

well i'm assuming its because April is the start of our financial year, so i'm guessing that they make it april to keep finance deals easier to work out... But personally i dunno...that really is a big big guess

[integrator97]

well i'm assuming its because April is the start of our financial year, so i'm guessing that they make it april to keep finance deals easier to work out... But personally i dunno...that really is a big big guess

Well, that makes sense.

[airtight security officer]

we currenlty have 4 cheolet mlibus, 3 corwn vic and cevyy avelo

[CorpSec]

we currenlty have 4 cheolet mlibus, 3 corwn vic and cevyy avelo

Let me translate for our foreign guests. They currently have 4 Chevrolet Malibu's, 3 Crown Vics, and a Chevy Aveo.

[EMTGuard]

Let me translate for our foreign guests. They currently have 4 Chevrolet Malibu's, 3 Crown Vics, and a Chevy Aveo. thanks. I needed the translation.

[SecTrainer]

we currenlty have 4 cheolet mlibus, 3 corwn vic and cevyy avelo

Huh?!? I rarely comment on bad spelling or grammar, as I'm far from perfect myself and this isn't a grammar forum or a typing forum. But, this is about 8 over the limit. :eek:

[jer6141]

Originally we started with jeep cherokees and ford rangers, mini whelen strobes and graphics that were rainbow colored.. Horrible cars. We upgraded to ford escapes with better graphics, green white full size bars with alleys, take downs and flashers.. We are due for new cars now and will get escapes again and are looking for a LED bar, but will have full size light bar with take downs, alley and flashers, a traffic bar, roof beacon, grill and deck lights, cornering strobes, spot light, better graphics (no one got the idea of numbering the cars last time, so no one could tell which car was there's..), air horn / pa combo, nice inside consoule and hopefully either a push bar on one of them and mdt's. Some of the supervisors have pda's who are on foot, and dispatch has a heavy computer record system, so we may get this instead of texting, using our cells or tying up channel 1 or 2 for records checks and whatnot.. They still wont give us a cage, so unless i know the person, its a victim or a kid, I dont let people in the car with me.

[Unit6]

We have a 08 Ford Escape, Funny thing is im not alow to drive it for what ever reason (Training not available). but im required to do exterior patrols, they are lucky i have a 04 Chevy Impala thats a Ex-Undercover, they are also lucky i have my own emergency lighting. =)

[integrator97]

BTW Glad to see that you got the Amber/Green lights....bad thing is in the pic they almost look like Red/Blue.

Must be your monitor. Looks amber/green on mine.

I read a news article the other day that said that Chrysler/Dodge is getting back into the police vehicle market, after being out for quite a few years.

[Charger]

I read a news article the other day that said that Chrysler/Dodge is getting back into the police vehicle market, after being out for quite a few years.

I take it no departments around you have bought the new Chargers yet, eh? They've actually been out for quite a while now... Many departments have already switched over, with many more buying just a few to "try out"... Wish I could convince the boss to buy a few.. :D

[ddog]

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/26/autos/dodge_police_car.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007112613

Interceptor Crown Vics are bad, but if the Charger is half as good as a 4 cylinder Dodge Stratus, look out. Its finally nice to have 2 good alternatives, but the Charger will likely cost significantly more with unknown longterm system wear of various component groups. My 1994 6cyl Dakota is still riding nice with 180K miles on it though :)

Wait and see if the taxi cabs start changing to the Charger for added confidence: since law enforcement uses tax payers money to buy their cars.

Personally, I wish the Challenger model would be more mass produced for cost benefits like the Crown Vic. Those are especially nice models.

[bpdblue]

I've driven lots of patrol vehicles, but the most fun one was a 1978 Dodge Monaco, with the 440 ci V8. :eek:

We would flip the air filter cover over, and place it on top of the air filter.

Man, that thing sounded so COOL when you got on it. But the chief was not too thrilled, so it never stayed that way for long. The car was fast too.

Only problem was the brakes were crap, and it did not like fast sharp turns. It was definitely hairy to chase someone in. :D

[T202]

We would flip the air filter cover over, and place it on top of the air filter.
:D

We did the same thing. The good old days. :)

[Miami-Dade]

[QUOTE=ddog;46487]http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/26/autos/dodge_police_car.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007112613
Interceptor Crown Vics are bad, but if the Charger is half as good as a 4 cylinder Dodge Stratus, look out./QUOTE]

If your Crown Vics are bad they aren't being serviced. properly.

We have a fleet of Crown Vics and love them.Still running strong at 200k miles.We had a Dodge Stratus that had no power and fell apart at 45k miles.The Impalas were OK till 100k miles but after that they all needed allot of front end work.The Impalas aren't as comfortable as the Crown Vic.The Dodge Intrepids fell apart at 40k miles.I hope the Charger holds up better then the Intrepids.

We don't have any Chargers yet but our Sheriff [Broward County Sheriff]] just bought a ton of Hemi Chargers. Even saw yellow cab out of Fort Lauderdale with a bunch of Chargers.Don't think their Hemis though.

BTW my buddy has a 97 Crown Vic with 300k miles on it and its running just fine and the a/c is still pumping cold air in this everyday Miami jungle heat.I doubt something from Mopar could do that at 300k miles.

In the past Mopar=Junk.But maybe they changed with the new Charger.

[Curtis Baillie]

I've driven lots of patrol vehicles, but the most fun one was a 1978 Dodge Monaco, with the 440 ci V8. :eek:

We would flip the air filter cover over, and place it on top of the air filter.

Man, that thing sounded so COOL when you got on it. But the chief was not too thrilled, so it never stayed that way for long. The car was fast too.

Only problem was the brakes were crap, and it did not like fast sharp turns. It was definitely hairy to chase someone in. :DIn 1972 we had some Dodges with the 440 motors. These were the 'pursuit' motors and were a blast to drive. We had the counter (sliding) weight in the trunks that allowed faster cornering.

[bpdblue]

The earlier (pre-smog worries) Dodges had much more power than the 1978 versions.

With those I have seen on (television) shows, the cops were trained to take some turns by power sliding, which basically means burning rubber to bring the rear wheels around the turn. I never got to drive one of those models, but that had to be something else.

I know that it's better these days, with ABS breaking, stability control, and all the other safety and handling goodies now on cars. They are even making fast cars once again. BUT, for the true, MANLY :D driving experience, nothing beats driving those old, big block, full size beasts, from the 1970's and earlier for thrills.

P.S., I know you younger guys (let's say under 40 :eek: ) will want to jump down my throat on this one, and that's OK. Remember, it's only MY little old opinion here.

[ddog]

If your Crown Vics are bad they aren't being serviced. properly.

We have a fleet of Crown Vics and love them.Still running strong at 200k miles.We had a Dodge Stratus that had no power and fell apart at 45k miles.The Impalas were OK till 100k miles but after that they all needed allot of front end work.The Impalas aren't as comfortable as the Crown Vic.The Dodge Intrepids fell apart at 40k miles.I hope the Charger holds up better then the Intrepids.

We don't have any Chargers yet but our Sheriff [Broward County Sheriff]] just bought a ton of Hemi Chargers. Even saw yellow cab out of Fort Lauderdale with a bunch of Chargers.Don't think their Hemis though.

BTW my buddy has a 97 Crown Vic with 300k miles on it and its running just fine and the a/c is still pumping cold air in this everyday Miami jungle heat.I doubt something from Mopar could do that at 300k miles.

In the past Mopar=Junk.But maybe they changed with the new Charger.

Sorry, I meant "Super-" bad. Crown Vic Interceptors (or even the 'regulars') are one of the most fun cars I've ridden in. They are fast and get good gas mileage too.

Working in Automotive industry for 5 years as an industrial engineer, Ford's quality standards were so tight, it was hard to make assemblies fit properly due to part exact part specs not fitting as an assembly. The Crown Vic has been an excellent car for many years running.

But Dodge's designs are unique and more innovative based on each specific model (the trucks are excellent for sure). But there is something magical about Dodge V8's, and nothing sounds near as good. It almost makes up for any other deficiencies.

The cost and performance of Crown Vics have set a high bar to match, and Dodge is the only ones who can realistically meet it. I'm glad to see competition though, because I know Dodge won't quit until their German engineers figure it out.

I'm keeping my eye on the taxi-cab cars for a good indicator, to see if they change from their taxi 'standard' Crown Vic. The ONLY thing that I can never see anyone match on Crown Vic V8's is the 25mpg gas mileage which is more important these days especially.

[The Hussard]

The best police car was the good old chevrolet caprice nothing beat these beast :)

[Charger]

...The ONLY thing that I can never see anyone match on Crown Vic V8's is the 25mpg gas mileage which is more important these days especially.

Except the new Charger, of course... :) The v6 is comparable to the Vic on mileage, and the hemi v8 actually gets better mileage because of the MDS system... :D


Projected mileage for the V-8 is about 17 miles per gallon in the city and 25 mpg on the highway and that is better than mileage for the heavier Crown Victoria, which is listed as 16 mpg city and 22 mpg highway.

From http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/05/dodge_police_car.html

[Hank1]

CIS just purchase three Chargers for testing in the fleet. If all goes well, it will replace the Crown Victorias we currently use.

Be Safe,

Hank

[Charger]

CIS just purchase three Chargers for testing in the fleet. If all goes well, it will replace the Crown Victorias we currently use.

Be Safe,

Hank

:eek: :(

I'm jealous Hank... My company's owner seems set in his ways and keeps refusing my requests to get Chargers... :D Be sure to post pics when they get upfitted!

[ddog]

The funny thing is Dodge is planning to just make trucks soon, and Chrysler cars. That may be exclusive of this deal and would actually help Dodge concentrate on the Charger to make it more competitive, since they would just have one car.

Of course, put a different sticker and model name on it and its a Chrysler.

[Hank1]

:eek: :(

I'm jealous Hank... My company's owner seems set in his ways and keeps refusing my requests to get Chargers... :D Be sure to post pics when they get upfitted!

I sure will Charger!

[Miami-Dade]

I'm keeping my eye on the taxi-cab cars for a good indicator, to see if they change from their taxi 'standard' Crown Vic. The ONLY thing that I can never see anyone match on Crown Vic V8's is the 25mpg gas mileage which is more important these days especially.

A friend of mine does own a 07 Charger Hemi and we did take a trip from Miami to Atlanta.We could barely fit all our luggage in the trunk.I drove it and the blind spots were really bad plus the small windsheild made traffic lights much harder to see.We had less legroom in the back seat and the way the back widows are designed made it harder to see out.Sure it was fast and handled great but how fast can you really go.Gas mileage was the same as my 05 Crown Victoria.Yeah the Charger looks cool and all but overall I'd rather have the Crown Vic

When a family of 4 or more gets into a Charger at the airport with their tons of luggage I have no idea how their their going to get all their stuff it into the trunk.Its smaller then the Impalas trunk.

We have no Chargers in our fleet and and told the boss not to get any.So far he has listened.

[Hank1]

A friend of mine does own a 07 Charger Hemi and we did take a trip from Miami to Atlanta.We could barely fit all our luggage in the trunk.I drove it and the blind spots were really bad plus the small windsheild made traffic lights much harder to see.We had less legroom in the back seat and the way the back widows are designed made it harder to see out.Sure it was fast and handled great but how fast can you really go.Gas mileage was the same as my 05 Crown Victoria.Yeah the Charger looks cool and all but overall I'd rather have the Crown Vic

When a family of 4 or more gets into a Charger at the airport with their tons of luggage I have no idea how their their going to get all their stuff it into the trunk.Its smaller then the Impalas trunk.

We have no Chargers in our fleet and and told the boss not to get any.So far he has listened.

Miami~
Everything you have mentioned is exactly what I have heard. I also have heard from a few Pasco County Deputies who drive the Chargers that they have tripped exiting thier vehicles because the floor boards in the Chargers are deeper than in the Crown Victorias and Chevy Impalas. I will not be one of the Officers who will be field testing these vehicles ( I have a 07 Crown Vic). But I will be in contact with those who will be. I will keep all advised as I get the information.


Be Safe,

Hank

[ddog]

Miami~
Everything you have mentioned is exactly what I have heard. I also have heard from a few Pasco County Deputies who drive the Chargers that they have tripped exiting thier vehicles because the floor boards in the Chargers are deeper than in the Crown Victorias and Chevy Impalas. I will not be one of the Officers who will be field testing these vehicles ( I have a 07 Crown Vic). But I will be in contact with those who will be. I will keep all advised as I get the information.


Be Safe,

Hank

If you have a 07 Crown Vic interceptor (or regular 07 Crown Vic for that matter), you have a very nice ride. Just remember you can only hold so many bananas before you start dropping most of what you have in your hands. I personally wouldn't want to give your present ride up unless the new ride was proven beyond significant confidence levels. That's your safety at stake: not just a few thrill rides!

Media articles are just advertising in disquise: the Germans are very crafty with propoganda. Crown Vic is proven beyond all doubt in almost every category. I'd love a V8 Dodge, but if I were using it like a State Trooper, there is no way statistically a virtually new model can hold a candle to the Crown Vic as a total System, including interaction effects from all sub-systems.

You can get an interceptor, last years model NEW on Ford lots, with leather seats for about $17K. If I ever get a car beyond my PU and cycle, it would be hard to justify anything beyond Crown Vic (with my money anyway). I still have an open mind and like Dodge. Its just Crown Vics are the best Ford or anyone has made for trooper/taxicab duty cycles of 24/7 hard use year after year. And all the Ford manufacturing jigs/molds/tooling/hardware investments have been paid for many years ago; and they can charge virtually variable cost per unit only and still make a decent profit.

The Dodge Charger has done miraculous to meet several significant features of the Crown Vic. But it takes a lot more than that to unseat the crowned Champion of cars (to date), imo.

[Miami-Dade]

If you have a 07 Crown Vic interceptor (or regular 07 Crown Vic for that matter), you have a very nice ride. Just remember you can only hold so many bananas before you start dropping most of what you have in your hands. I personally wouldn't want to give your present ride up unless the new ride was proven beyond significant confidence levels. That's your safety at stake: not just a few thrill rides!

Media articles are just advertising in disquise: the Germans are very crafty with propoganda. Crown Vic is proven beyond all doubt in almost every category. I'd love a V8 Dodge, but if I were using it like a State Trooper, there is no way statistically a virtually new model can hold a candle to the Crown Vic as a total System, including interaction effects from all sub-systems.

You can get an interceptor, last years model NEW on Ford lots, with leather seats for about $17K. If I ever get a car beyond my PU and cycle, it would be hard to justify anything beyond Crown Vic (with my money anyway). I still have an open mind and like Dodge. Its just Crown Vics are the best Ford or anyone has made for trooper/taxicab duty cycles of 24/7 hard use year after year. And all the Ford manufacturing jigs/molds/tooling/hardware investments have been paid for many years ago; and they can charge virtually variable cost per unit only and still make a decent profit.

The Dodge Charger has done miraculous to meet several significant features of the Crown Vic. But it takes a lot more than that to unseat the crowned Champion of cars (to date), imo.

X2
EXCELLENTLY PUT!

[Curtis Baillie]

I still say this is the pursuit vehicle of the future.:rolleyes:

[LPCap]

Chargers cost more to maintain than the CVPI, tires cost more due to them being performance, and the cost per mile is $0.05-$0.07 more for the Charger. The city police department recently did a survey and if they were to replace all of their 100+ CVPI with Chargers, maintenance costs would rise over $100,000 per year.

Currently the department only has 4 Chargers and they also have painted on the back "Courtesy of your neighborhood drug dealer", since they purchased them with confiscated drug money. (I'll try and snap a few pics next time I see one).

[OccamsRazor]

I still say this is the pursuit vehicle of the future.:rolleyes:

Gotcha beat- this is the pursuit vehicle of the future.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Wilrobnson/bike-cop.jpg

[Curtis Baillie]

Chargers cost more to maintain than the CVPI, tires cost more due to them being performance, and the cost per mile is $0.05-$0.07 more for the Charger. The city police department recently did a survey and if they were to replace all of their 100+ CVPI with Chargers, maintenance costs would rise over $100,000 per year.

Currently the department only has 4 Chargers and they also have painted on the back "Courtesy of your neighborhood drug dealer", since they purchased them with confiscated drug money. (I'll try and snap a few pics next time I see one).When ordering the 'police package' does that not include the upgraded high speed rated tires?

[integrator97]

When ordering the 'police package' does that not include the upgraded high speed rated tires?

Curtis, it looks like you used the wrong quote. You actually meant the pink bicycle, didn't you. :p

[Hank1]

If you have a 07 Crown Vic interceptor (or regular 07 Crown Vic for that matter), you have a very nice ride. Just remember you can only hold so many bananas before you start dropping most of what you have in your hands. I personally wouldn't want to give your present ride up unless the new ride was proven beyond significant confidence levels. That's your safety at stake: not just a few thrill rides!

Media articles are just advertising in disquise: the Germans are very crafty with propoganda. Crown Vic is proven beyond all doubt in almost every category. I'd love a V8 Dodge, but if I were using it like a State Trooper, there is no way statistically a virtually new model can hold a candle to the Crown Vic as a total System, including interaction effects from all sub-systems.

You can get an interceptor, last years model NEW on Ford lots, with leather seats for about $17K. If I ever get a car beyond my PU and cycle, it would be hard to justify anything beyond Crown Vic (with my money anyway). I still have an open mind and like Dodge. Its just Crown Vics are the best Ford or anyone has made for trooper/taxicab duty cycles of 24/7 hard use year after year. And all the Ford manufacturing jigs/molds/tooling/hardware investments have been paid for many years ago; and they can charge virtually variable cost per unit only and still make a decent profit.

The Dodge Charger has done miraculous to meet several significant features of the Crown Vic. But it takes a lot more than that to unseat the crowned Champion of cars (to date), imo.

I can't argue anything you have posted here Dog. I have very little to no input as it pertains to our agency vehicles. I do have the 2007 Crown Victoria and I am a Ford fan. As I stated in another thread, I am a tradionalist and prefer the Crown Vic. The CEO relies on the vehicle / fleet manager in that regard. However, the CEO drives a Chrysler that is very similar to the Charger ( higher end) and he loves it. So, they plan on "beta" testing these Chargers. According to the fleet manager, these are " police pakage" Chargers with all the bells and whistles! It remains to be seen at this point.

Be Safe,

Hank

[flashlightcop509]

this is the pursuit vehicle of the future.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Wilrobnson/bike-cop.jpg
:D You kidding?

Geez, that Glock probly weighs more than the bike! :p

To quote Jeff Dunham... "all right buddy, pull over! *ching ching*"

[Alaska Security]

06 GMC Sierras, crew cab diesel longbeds.

CB, company VHF
Shotgun rack
full back seat of post equipment and personal arctic gear
4x lightforce 170 strykers forward, 2 to the rear

some have blue/amber lightbars, most have a single amber strobe.. working to change that because takedown and alley lights are helpful, and we ocassionally respond to issues on public roadways and newer LED lightbars would increase officer safety and scene safety.

All are labeled with Security on the front doors, and the contracting company's name and logo as well.

[HospitalPatrol]

a recent post made me think of this

First of all we have some 07 trailblazers with no extras except some four way strobes.

The graphics on it are kind of generic. This is what we have on the door panels:
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/galls-graphics-store_1965_4651945

Galls sells them at http://galls-graphics-store.stores.yahoo.net/fadedoorpanels.html. I think they are cheap and don't look very cool or eye catching just blah. I have seen some other security companies and one police department with this style decal.

My very first security job required me to do parking lot duty at a call center parking lot in a ghetto old minivan that had the clients logo on it and someone put on some vinyl letter stickers to make it say security but they weren't even reflective. Also we had one of those cigar lighter plug in yellow strobe lights that didn't even work before I got there. I had to go to radio shack and get a new plug for it. The van would always break down or people would get into accidents with it and when that happened they went even more ghetto by renting a kia minivan. We all thought that was great because it was a newer vehicle but the employees never felt "safe" with us there because they had no clue who we were and even made complaints about security not being out there checking on the suspicious kia circling the lot :rolleyes:.

The coolest patrol vehicle was at the hospital because it had all the graphics which made it look really good. It was a newer explorer maybe an 05. It had the clients logo on the door and a stripe going across the sides and the back and it said security services on the rear doors where the stripe was. It even said security services written backwards on it on the hood so people could see it in their rear view mirror. It also had an amber light bar and four way strobes.

Anyways how good or bad are the graphics on your patrol vehicles?

[jer6141]

we had a red/white/blue on our newest cars that went from the front wheels to the tail lights with "PUBLIC SAFETY" on it in same scheme.. resembles an old school nba philly 76's type lettering.. the bottom front door had the management name and bottom back door had our location. Dial 911 markers and things. All reflective. The only thing bad about them were there wasnt consistancy in placing of some of the graphics, no one decided to order car numbers so it was a real guess which one was your car for awhile and some otehr placement issues.. My sgt said our escapes with the huge lightbars looked more like british police cars.. And they did. But it beat the old rainbow graphics we had..

[SecTrainer]

One big thing in favor of CVs is the number of companies that make patrol-related accessories for them in any recent model year - consoles, computer racks, bumper guards, special interior lighting, etc.

Another is service - there are approximately 1.5 times as many Ford dealerships as Dodge/Chrysler.

Another is a larger used market for the standard model, and I doubt that very many security companies really need Interceptors anyway, or can justify their increased operating costs.

[Minneapolis Security]

One big thing in favor of CVs is the number of companies that make patrol-related accessories for them in any recent model year - consoles, computer racks, bumper guards, special interior lighting, etc.

Another is service - there are approximately 1.5 times as many Ford dealerships as Dodge/Chrysler.

Another is a larger used market for the standard model, and I doubt that very many security companies really need Interceptors anyway, or can justify their increased operating costs.

How does the equation work? The more fuel efficient your car is, the more likely you are to die in it... I can justify a CVPI just fine!

[Miami-Dade]

How does the equation work? The more fuel efficient your car is, the more likely you are to die in it... I can justify a CVPI just fine!

Good answer Minneapolis Security.

[Security]

2003 GMC Sonoma

[TheEskimo]

Since we do a lot of different things around work, we have a '93 Ford Ranger, an '05 Dodge Spinter passenger van, and an '07 Kawasaki Mule

[The Hussard]

Why do you using dodge sprinter van

[TheEskimo]

We do more then just the security here, we also transport some students and staff members to an off site location at times, such as for special events when there is not enough parking space on site.

Bigger events we have drivers that come in, but after the event they go home and any employees left get driven by us back to their vehicles.

[EMTGuard]

This thread needs more photos. :D

[sgtnewby]

Too many pages to go through and I can't remember if I already have, so I'll just post the pics...

[flashlightcop509]

One of these days soon...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/gunnerk19/umallpatrolcar.jpg
Makeshift MS paint for the graphics, but...

The door badge and all text will be removable magnetic panels, since I'm looking at a CVPI for my new personal vehicle; The bar light won't be there, but I'm thinking visor mounted grn/wht/abr LED strobes, and abr/grn Par 36 strobes on the rear deck with an Arrowstick or traffic advisor at the top of the rear windshield...

[SecTrainer]

How does the equation work? The more fuel efficient your car is, the more likely you are to die in it... I can justify a CVPI just fine!

Huh?!?! I don't think that's an assertion you can support at all, and if it were, the CVPI wouldn't come out at the top of a list of cars chosen by that criterion by a long shot. Operationally, the CVPI is neither necessary nor a good choice for security companies, with the possible exception of those that are purchased used from public safety agencies at sufficiently deep discounts to offset their operational cost disadvantages.

[Minneapolis Security]

Huh?!?! I don't think that's an assertion you can support at all.

Fuel efficiency is gained by making cars lighter, you are more likely to die in a small (light) vehicle. Statistics don't lie.

Americans who buy the smallest cars on the market are twice as likely to have fatal accidents as drivers of midsize and larger vehicles, according to a report being released today by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/12/19/big_risks_seen_in_small_cars/

[SecTrainer]

Fuel efficiency is gained by making cars lighter, you are more likely to die in a small (light) vehicle. Statistics don't lie.

Americans who buy the smallest cars on the market are twice as likely to have fatal accidents as drivers of midsize and larger vehicles, according to a report being released today by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/12/19/big_risks_seen_in_small_cars/

Unfortunately, neither you nor your article are comparing what we were comparing - i.e., the CV to the CVPI. At least, I can't remember recommending the Yugo instead of a CVPI. Please stick to the subject.

If weight was the determinant of vehicle safety, one wonders why anyone does all that crash testing. It must cost a ton of money and trouble. Why don't these stupid safety engineers just weigh the vehicles and rank them according to weight!?!

If you want to become educated on vehicle safety, visit the real source of safety statistics here (http://www.safercar.gov/) and you'll see that there's no direct correlation whatsoever between vehicle weight and vehicle safety. (HINT: Some SUVs are the least safe and yet the heaviest, while quite a few of the "lighter" cars are rated the safest).

I'd put the operational cost differential into defensive driving training for officers instead of the gas tank. Security companies simply do not need pursuit vehicles, however "sexy" the officers might think it would be to have them, or however much it might make them feel like cops.

[Charger]

...Security companies simply do not need pursuit vehicles, however "sexy" the officers might think it would be to have them, or however much it might make them feel like cops.

While I agree with you on the point that security companies do not need PURSUIT vehicles, you're forgetting that there are some other advantages to the police package vehicles. They tend to have better electrical systems, (stronger alternators), and a beefier suspension that can handle the rigors of everyday beatings. While security may not engage in pursuits, the vehicles used by us DO take quite a beating.. Driving on gravel paths full of potholes, through huge mudpits, etc. At the very least if I were purchasing regular (civilian) versions of the CV, I would opt to get the better suspension installed asap to help keep problems from happening later. :D

Just some food for thought...

[SecTrainer]

While I agree with you on the point that security companies do not need PURSUIT vehicles, you're forgetting that there are some other advantages to the police package vehicles. They tend to have better electrical systems, (stronger alternators), and a beefier suspension that can handle the rigors of everyday beatings. While security may not engage in pursuits, the vehicles used by us DO take quite a beating.. Driving on gravel paths full of potholes, through huge mudpits, etc. At the very least if I were purchasing regular (civilian) versions of the CV, I would opt to get the better suspension installed asap to help keep problems from happening later. :D

Just some food for thought...

...and good points they are. Fortunately, both electrics and the suspension on the standard CV can be beefed up (electric very easily), and since (I think) 2002, the suspension on the standard CV is no lightweight when it comes to potholes.

[Black Caesar]

Gotcha beat- this is the pursuit vehicle of the future.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Wilrobnson/bike-cop.jpg

You could use that to catch this dangerous pint sized felon!!!!!


http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m28/Black_Caesar/106456.jpg

[Minneapolis Security]

Unfortunately, neither you nor your article are comparing what we were comparing - i.e., the CV to the CVPI. At least, I can't remember recommending the Yugo instead of a CVPI. Please stick to the subject.

If weight was the determinant of vehicle safety, one wonders why anyone does all that crash testing. It must cost a ton of money and trouble. Why don't these stupid safety engineers just weigh the vehicles and rank them according to weight!?!

If you want to become educated on vehicle safety, visit the real source of safety statistics here (http://www.safercar.gov/) and you'll see that there's no direct correlation whatsoever between vehicle weight and vehicle safety. (HINT: Some SUVs are the least safe and yet the heaviest, while quite a few of the "lighter" cars are rated the safest).

I'd put the operational cost differential into defensive driving training for officers instead of the gas tank. Security companies simply do not need pursuit vehicles, however "sexy" the officers might think it would be to have them, or however much it might make them feel like cops.

The CV vs. the CVPI operating costs are virtually identical. I should know, I have operated and maintained both. I think your getting hung up on the "I" in CVPI.

The point of the "police package" isn't just for doing pursuits. Its specifically geared toward up-fitting with equipment that police or security may need for day to day operations. Check out the Ford Modifier's guide here https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2008fleetshowroom/2008-CrVicPoliceInt-mguide.asp

Its really not that hard of a decision to make, even between the CV and the CVPI.

[tacscuba]

I thought the CVPI engine was no different from the civi model??? Therefore, why would it be a pursuit vehicle?

[Minneapolis Security]

I thought the CVPI engine was no different from the civi model??? Therefore, why would it be a pursuit vehicle?

Same engine, different horsepower rating. CV=224, CVPI=250.

There are other differences as well, such as improved suspension, upgraded electrical system and available fire supression system and ballistic front door panels. https://www.fleet.ford.com/downloads/brochures/2008/08PoliceIntercep.pdf

Not really relevant anymore however, Ford dropped the regular CV from the 2008 line-up.

[Minneapolis Security]

...and good points they are. Fortunately, both electrics and the suspension on the standard CV can be beefed up (electric very easily), and since (I think) 2002, the suspension on the standard CV is no lightweight when it comes to potholes.

That dosen't make a lot of sense, why buy a new car and then throw it right in the shop to get "upgraded" to what the CVPI has as standard equipment?

[ddog]

That dosen't make a lot of sense, why buy a new car and then throw it right in the shop to get "upgraded" to what the CVPI has as standard equipment?

Exactly! I'm starting to think he inserts counter-logical posts to see if anyone is reading. Or as the father of Transactional Analysis, Eric Bernes, would say, a perpetual I'm-Not-OK self-aware person playing a Look-At-ME(!!) psychological game from the subject's Deviant-Child ego state.
:cool:

[SecTrainer]

That dosen't make a lot of sense, why buy a new car and then throw it right in the shop to get "upgraded" to what the CVPI has as standard equipment?

Umm, you're not upgrading it to everything that the CVPI has as standard equipment, right? (Look at the two packages, and you'll see.)

Personally, I don't think the standard CV needs upgrading at all for security purposes other than perhaps the heavier-duty alternator and, depending on what gear will be used, a very inexpensive mod to the wiring harness and fuse panel. I have driven both - including a long trip in a standard CV around the back roads of western Canada (read, potholes, washouts, washboard roads, mud, etc.) and have driven the CVPI on patrol. The only time you would notice any difference in the suspension is on a very bad road or making a very sharp turn, etc. at very high speed. This takes me back to the statement that security vehicles are not used for pursuit.

And, when you look at security patrol vehicle requirements from a dead start, knowing nothing about the fact that PDs use CVs (which I suspect is a lot of the attraction for security guards, frankly), you probably wouldn't wind up picking the CV at all - standard or otherwise. It's a toss-up whether you'd select any of the "American" brands at all. Honda, Volvo, Toyota and Mitsubishi would appear high on your list.

It's interesting, but in my travels I've noticed that security companies all over the world tend to gravitate toward whatever cars are commonly used by the police in their countries, even though they have the same universe of possible vehicles available to them as those in other countries. This tendency suggests to me that it might not be cold hard evaluation of performance or cost measures that drive these decisions, but the universal desire of security companies to look as much like the police in their country as possible.

[SecTrainer]

Exactly! I'm starting to think he inserts counter-logical posts to see if anyone is reading. Or as the father of Transactional Analysis, Eric Bernes, would say, a perpetual I'm-Not-OK self-aware person playing a Look-At-ME(!!) psychological game from the subject's Deviant-Child ego state.
:cool:

Ddog, we never wondered why you were in security rather than practicing psychiatry at $250 an hour, so why should you feel the need to show us? What's next - your discoveries from EST?

It might just be that someone disagrees with you. Don't take it so hard.

[Minneapolis Security]

Umm, you're not upgrading it to everything that the CVPI has as standard equipment, right? (Look at the two packages, and you'll see.)

Personally, I don't think the standard CV needs upgrading at all for security purposes other than perhaps the heavier-duty alternator and, depending on what gear will be used, a very inexpensive mod to the wiring harness and fuse panel. I have driven both - including a long trip in a standard CV around the back roads of western Canada (read, potholes, washouts, washboard roads, mud, etc.) and have driven the CVPI on patrol. The only time you would notice any difference in the suspension is on a very bad road or making a very sharp turn, etc. at very high speed. This takes me back to the statement that security vehicles are not used for pursuit.

And, when you look at security patrol vehicle requirements from a dead start, knowing nothing about the fact that PDs use CVs (which I suspect is a lot of the attraction for security guards, frankly), you probably wouldn't wind up picking the CV at all - standard or otherwise. It's a toss-up whether you'd select any of the "American" brands at all. Honda, Volvo, Toyota and Mitsubishi would appear high on your list.

It's interesting, but in my travels I've noticed that security companies all over the world tend to gravitate toward whatever cars are commonly used by the police in their countries, even though they have the same universe of possible vehicles available to them as those in other countries. This tendency suggests to me that it might not be cold hard evaluation of performance or cost measures that drive these decisions, but the universal desire of security companies to look as much like the police in their country as possible.


Did it ever cross your mind that there is a reason that police departments use
CVPI's and not honda cars, volvo, toyota and mitsubishi?

Do you really think a honda accord will hold up to the use of a police department?

Security and police use of vehicles is very similar, 99.95% of police use use has nothing to do with pursuit. It has a lot to do with constant idling, lots of city driving, and occasional abuse (intentional or not). Security use is very similar in this regard, so is taxi use. That is why you see CVPI's used in all three of these industries, it has nothing to do with looking more like the police. We already know that the general public is clueless when it comes to people in uniform, what brand of car you drive certainly isn't going to clear that up.

Not to sound like a Ford representative, but here are the benefits I see in a heavy duty CVPI package, that non of the cars you listed have:


Alternator – 200-amp maximum output provides additional electrical capacity for police equipment


Body-on-frame, RWD construction


Coolers – For engine, power steering and transmission oil - Nice for a car that idles almost the whole shift.


Heavy-duty frame


Full-size spare tire and wheel - You can continue your shift after getting a flat


Heavy-duty suspension


Available Ballistic Door Panels from factory


Spot-lamp assembly – Driver’s side or dual - from factory. Can Toyota or Honda accommodate this?


Available Two-tone paint for those users that run a two-tone color scheme


Available fire suppression system


I can't think of any non-service type vehicles that can offer all that. The regular Crown Vic doesn't cut it for heavy duty service either, but like I said in a previous post, they don't offer the regular Crown Vic for 2008 anyway.

[SecTrainer]

Did it ever cross your mind that there is a reason that police departments use
CVPI's and not honda cars, volvo, toyota and mitsubishi?

Do you really think a honda accord will hold up to the use of a police department?

Security and police use of vehicles is very similar, 99.95% of police use use has nothing to do with pursuit. It has a lot to do with constant idling, lots of city driving, and occasional abuse (intentional or not). Security use is very similar in this regard, so is taxi use. That is why you see CVPI's used in all three of these industries, it has nothing to do with looking more like the police. We already know that the general public is clueless when it comes to people in uniform, what brand of car you drive certainly isn't going to clear that up.

Not to sound like a Ford representative, but here are the benefits I see in a heavy duty CVPI package, that non of the cars you listed have:


Alternator – 200-amp maximum output provides additional electrical capacity for police equipment


Body-on-frame, RWD construction


Coolers – For engine, power steering and transmission oil - Nice for a car that idles almost the whole shift.


Heavy-duty frame


Full-size spare tire and wheel - You can continue your shift after getting a flat


Heavy-duty suspension


Available Ballistic Door Panels from factory


Spot-lamp assembly – Driver’s side or dual - from factory. Can Toyota or Honda accommodate this?


Available Two-tone paint for those users that run a two-tone color scheme


Available fire suppression system


I can't think of any non-service type vehicles that can offer all that. The regular Crown Vic doesn't cut it for heavy duty service either, but like I said in a previous post, they don't offer the regular Crown Vic for 2008 anyway.

In answer to your questions:

1. Of course it crossed my mind, but it doesn't explain why the police in other countries use other makes. This is more easily explained by Ford's position in the North American police fleet market, actually.

2. Do I think an Accord would stand up to police use? Well, I don't know, but that's the whole point, isn't it? We're not the police, and I'm not suggesting Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi or Volvo for police use, am I?

Having worked both sides of the line over many years, I can tell you that the similarities between PD and security vehicle use on patrol are not really great enough to warrant utilizing "police standards" about this.

3. Can Toyota/Honda, etc. handle spotlights? Of course they can - and light bars as well.

4. Any goober can get run-flat tires if that's important. While you're at it, get a vehicle fire extinguisher.

5. Some of the items mentioned above are not standard on the CVPI, so either way you're talking extra on those.

The point is simply this, and it doesn't have to become so emotional: When you look strictly at security patrol vehicle requirements, and stop fixating on police cars, you'll find differences in usage that create different criteria from police cars. There are a number of vehicles that meet these criteria quite admirably, with equal or greater storage space to the CV, equal or greater safety ratings than the CV, equal or greater reliability than the CV, equal or better handling characteristics, and at a MUCH lower total cost of ownership.

I'd rather spend my money on officers wages than to spend one unnecessary penny for the vehicles they drive, providing what they drive is high quality, presents a professional appearance, efficient to operate, and is comfortable for an officer to spend a shift in it.

I guarantee that if you did a spreadsheet using codes for the vehicle brands (so you're not influenced by their brand names), had them independently rated and then totaled up the scores, it would very likely surprise you when you exchanged the brand codes for the actual brand names and see what's top-ranked. You could be looking at a CV in top position, but it could be a Chevy Malibu, a Volvo V50, a Honda Element, a Saturn Vue or a Forrester. You'll never know until you shake off your prejudices and just look at the cold, hard facts.

[NRM_Oz]

In Australia we have both Ford and Holden (GMC Equivalent) sedans for general use. These are family sedans (V6's) that are extremely modified (duh). General patrols are conducted in Pickup Trucks with twin cabs and caged, covered transport areas for those naughty people) and Forensics run from station wagons - fitted out for their needs. Some country police use 4wd units designed for bush work and for dangerous conditions including floods and then we have the pursuit vehicles which are all Fords and Holdens but V8 engines.

A few companies like Mercedes, BMW, Mini Cooper, Mitsubishi, Volvo and Volkswagon have all given freebies for 12 months complete with markings, for the police to use as general use duties vehicles (court attendance, commander transport, witness transport) to display to the public and to support the community policing program and with some car hoons, these hotted up cars has been a talking point with the local police.

Security vehicles (unless your own) are like rental cars - they can be thrashed and abused by different staff and it is not uncommon to see them treated worse than $50.00 paddock basher on a farm. I would never purchase an ex rental and when I sold my 4 patrol cars, the people buying them were the 4 of the 6 who ever drove them so they knew what they were buying from me.

Things such as run flat tyres, rear passenger shields, more lights than Yankee Stadium and other dead money - just that - dead money. For what is spent on stupid upgrades, 2 vehicles could have been purchased.

[Minneapolis Security]

You'll never know until you shake off your prejudices and just look at the cold, hard facts.

It would seem your prejudice would be for American cars. I'm not sure where you’re from, but in America, driving American vehicles is a business plus all by itself. Not to mention keeping the money in our country and not supporting a foreign government.

I'm also not sure why you are so obsessed with the pursuit aspects of the CVPI, or why you think security vs. police patrols are so dissimilar? When I patrol, I’m looking for the same things they are, just on private property.

My company also does prisoner transport, so the added room is really a necessity.

All the vehicles you mentioned require extensive modification in order to do a so so job of meeting the CVPI’s factory installed features.

I can order a CVPI from the factory, ready to hit the road. None of those other vehicles can do the same.

There is also the silliness factor in driving little foreign cars that have security plastered all over them. It doesn’t do much to instill confidence in you clients when you roll up in a civic.

[Charger]

There is also the silliness factor in driving little foreign cars that have security plastered all over them. It doesn’t do much to instill confidence in you clients when you roll up in a civic.

That alone is a good point. To go out on a limb here, my company uses Hyundais. (Both sedans and SUVs) Personally, I think the sedans look kinda goofy. The SUVs at least have a "mean" look to them, thanks in part to the new LED lightbars and pushbumpers.

The sedans are not considered compacts, but GOSH they're cramped. There's no room for equipment, so the stereo had to be removed to make room for the light controls & radio. Same story in the SUVs as well. (I'm only 5'11", but *I* hit my head on the ceiling on a regular basis... I can't imagine how our taller S/Os feel) Sitting in the seat wearing full duty gear is a serious PAIN in both vehicles.

So far the drivetrains have proven to be more reliable than in the old Ford Tauruses they replaced, but on the other hand the suspension systems have taken a heck of a beating by comparison and don't seem to be holding up as well. The mileage is only marginally better than the older cars. So little in fact it's basically a moot argument. The electrical systems BARELY handle the equipment load. (In fact, one of the sedans had a catastrophic electrical failure that I won't get into here.. lol) Only time will tell how they truly compare in reliability & overall cost.

Hyundai hasn't exactly been a real contender in the auto market in the past, but most sources will tell you their reliability & quality has been on par with the other so-called "quality" (read Asian) makers for the past 7-10 years. So if that's true then that tells you how a Honda, Toyota or Mitsu would deal with the same type of job.

In the end, is the (marginal) difference in reliability & mpg REALLY worth trading the comfort & spaciousness of the normal patrol car? In the end it's up to each individual company to decide, but if it were me, I'd say no.

//rant off. :D

[HotelSecurity]

It would seem your prejudice would be for American cars. I'm not sure where you’re from, but in America, driving American vehicles is a business plus all by itself. Not to mention keeping the money in our country and not supporting a foreign government.


You do realize that a lot of foreign cars are built in the US by US workers. Sold from US owned dealerships. Repaired by US mechanics. How does buying a foreign car support a foreign GOVERNMENT? I do not know of any governments that own auto building companies.

Please sit down, I don't want you to fall & hurt yourself when you read the following: The mom & apple pie company "Holiday Inn" was bought by a UK company many years ago.:eek:

[Charger]

Too true. Foreign cars are built in the US, and domestic cars are built elsewhere... State of the world these days. :)

For example, (former GM employee here), many of GMs engines are made in mexico, and many other parts are made in Canada. They then get shipped to the US for final assembly. Does that mean it's still made in the US of A? :p

[gcmc security part 2]

Too true. Foreign cars are built in the US, and domestic cars are built elsewhere... State of the world these days. :)

For example, (former GM employee here), many of GMs engines are made in mexico, and many other parts are made in Canada. They then get shipped to the US for final assembly. Does that mean it's still made in the US of A? :p

Agreed, take for example Steelcase furniture, they state they are "assempled in the US" yet all the parts are made overseas.

[Hank1]

Well, my Dodge Charger came in today. It is in possession of the Fleet Mgr., for outfitting with graphics and lights to include the rhino pushbar. In a previous posting, the Charger was for another Officer, so I thought. It was a surprise apparently. I took it for a test ride today. All I can say is WOW! I will take possession of the vehicle in about 2 weeks when all of the bells and whistles have been installed. My 08' Crown Victoria will be re-issued out to another. Two more will be arriving shortly according to the Fleet Mgr. I will keep you all informed once I have taken possession of it.

Be Safe,

Hank

[SecTrainer]

It would seem your prejudice would be for American cars. I'm not sure where you’re from, but in America, driving American vehicles is a business plus all by itself. Not to mention keeping the money in our country and not supporting a foreign government.

I'm also not sure why you are so obsessed with the pursuit aspects of the CVPI, or why you think security vs. police patrols are so dissimilar? When I patrol, I’m looking for the same things they are, just on private property.

My company also does prisoner transport, so the added room is really a necessity.

All the vehicles you mentioned require extensive modification in order to do a so so job of meeting the CVPI’s factory installed features.

I can order a CVPI from the factory, ready to hit the road. None of those other vehicles can do the same.

There is also the silliness factor in driving little foreign cars that have security plastered all over them. It doesn’t do much to instill confidence in you clients when you roll up in a civic.

You can no longer "support the American economy" by buying "American" cars, nor do you harm the American economy by buying "foreign" cars. Today, these terms have no meaning as most cars are comprised of globally-produced parts and could be assembled anywhere.

I doubt seriously that there is sufficient "business benefit" from "driving American" to compensate you for driving anything other than vehicles that offers the real features needed for security patrol at the lowest operating cost. I doubt anyone is saying, "Oh, Heavens! We can't hire them - they drive Volvos!", or "Let's hire them - they drive Fords!". Puh-leeze. If anything, I'm more impressed with a company that has obviously considered operating costs in their fleet because I will assume that's how they run other aspects of their business as well.

It seems that you simply cannot make your case unless you MISSTATE what I said, i.e., that you have a choice between driving a CVPI or a Charger, or else driving a Civic, or some other "silly little foreign car" that has no room, etc. I'm surprised you didn't use a VW Beetle for your example.

This kind of deliberate misstatement of my position does you NO credit as a debater and brings nothing to the table in the way of solid discussion and enlightenment about our topic. So, I will ask you to please respond to what I do say, rather than misstating it. For instance, among the cars I mentioned were Volvo as well as Chevy Malibu and other examples of vehicles that are anything but "silly", and that should be evaluated for interior and trunk space, performance characteristics, and total cost of ownership, rather than simply accepting the CVPI or any other vehicle at face value.

It's very hard for me to see how any business person can make a cogent argument against this simple proposition: Even if the CVPI is truly the "best" vehicle, you'll never know that it is unless you do some serious head-to-head comparisons of both features that are important to security patrol (not police patrol) and the TCO (total cost of ownership) against other alternatives. When you do this, you don't have to get very far into the process before it becomes pretty clear that neither the CVPI nor the Charger will make the short list of security patrol vehicles in terms of "typical" patrol usage. There might be a few exceptional patrol venues that would make these cars a better choice, but not typically.

As the discussion deteriorates, I find myself thinking - hey, it's your money. Knock yourself out. I'd rather pay officers more than to pay a TCO premium for what (if we're all honest here) amounts to feeding the "we-gotta-look-like-cops" fantasy. I have no doubt at all that if the cops in this country drove Volvos, there would be no one on the board clamoring to drive Crown Vics and all the buzz would be about the "cool S60", or some other model that cops were driving. (Incidentally, a PD that I know of got a Volvo not long ago and officers squabble over who GETS to drive it...not who HAS to drive it.)

...and check out this link to Aspen PD, which uses Volvo XC90s for most of its fleet, and before that drove Saabs: http://www.aspenpitkin.com/depts/53/divisions_patrol.cfm Now, THAT is one sharp-looking patrol unit. You honestly think I'd lose "business value" with my officers driving around in those? NOT!

In fact, if you do a little checking around, you'll see that even U.S. PDs drive lots of makes that you might not realize, and they make these decisions because in a given circumstance a particular vehicle makes the most sense. That is what I am suggesting security companies should do as well.

What makes this argument all the more silly is that PDs everywhere are already purchasing hybrids, NEVs etc. in order to evaluate their usefulness for PATROL purposes. All you have to do is Google police purchases hybrid or police purchases NEV, etc. to scope out the news articles on this subject. If they think they need to do this kind of evaluation, well....

[Andy Taylor]

I do know that a few years ago the CHP got a few Volvos for a year for testing. I don't remember witch model. They stayed with the CVPIs. Just an observation.

[SecTrainer]

I do know that a few years ago the CHP got a few Volvos for a year for testing. I don't remember witch model. They stayed with the CVPIs. Just an observation.

As I understand it, this choice wasn't due to performance issues. CHP wanted Volvo sedans and would have looked at Volvo's bid very seriously except that in that year Volvo was phasing out their sedans and only had wagons to offer.

And, the CVPI was actually not their first choice, either, but there was something happening with the Caprice at the time - might have been production problems or changes to the Caprice. I'm not sure what.

Now, of course, the story is different and Volvo is again offering a number of sedans, so we really don't know what the CHP would do in 2008 if they were making the choice now.

Incidentally, folks, Volvo is owned by Ford, so you don't have to worry about "harming the American economy" by looking at an XC70 or something similar...Ford gets the dough anyway. All you would have to consider in a Volvo-Ford comparison is the cars themselves - features and total cost of ownership. In fact, there's a whole tangled web of incestuous "partnership" and "ownership" relationships between "domestic" and "foreign" car companies and/or their assembly plants, the engines or other subassemblies they use, etc., if you care to check it out. Hail the global economy.

The Ford 500, Ford Fusion, Mercury Montego and a couple other Ford/Merc models did get high marks for quality this year from JD Powers, so I would certainly look at the 500, the Montego, and the midsize Fusion, which comes in a 4-door. Also, in the larger car department, Pontiac Grand Prix might be worth evaluating, as it also ranks high in quality. Many other issues, of course, but you gotta start your list somewhere. Other possibilities include Mitsubishi Galant, the Forrester, Honda CR-V, Honda Accord, Nissan XTerra, most any of the Volvos - sedans or wagons - except the luxury models, and Chevy Malibu. I don't think any of VWs models have done well. If a truck suits your purpose, my short list includes the Honda Ridgeline, the Honda Ridgeline, and the Honda Ridgeline. :D In a van, I'd look at either Honda Odyssey or the Kia Sedona. The Honda Element also has some very intriguing design features for specialty uses (e.g., interior is completely washable, enormous interior space, can be configured to carry a stretcher as a medical aid vehicle, etc.). You just gotta dig in and check 'em out.

One way I have done this without being bugged by sales people and in order to have time for a "car magazine" type test, once you're down to 3 or 4 possibles, is to rent each one on your list for a weekend and take it out for a good workout. If you're not a big guy yourself, enlist the company of an enormous friend and see if he (or she - I don't wish to be sexist :D)can sit in it for long periods of time. Load everything imaginable into it and see if you can access things quickly. Take it out on the highway, and on some back roads. If you fill it up before returning it, you can check the gas mileage yourself. Read the owner's manual, too.

(You can have some fun with this, too. Rent the car with a baby seat, and before you take it back to the rental agency throw some Cheerios into the baby seat along with a couple of empty beer cans and cigar butts. That'll screw with their minds!)

[N. A. Corbier]

I'm not sure about the Minneapolis area, but in the SE Wisconsin market, if you're not driving "American," the locals simply won't like you. Its part of the pro-union mentality of the area. Is it bad? Of course not, there's a freaking Chrysler plant in Kenosha. The local UAW hall was massive.

Does this mean people care all over America? No, it doesn't. But in some markets, you had best be driving what people consider to be appropriate. Hell, the Sheriff's Department only switched to Ford when the AMC/Jeep plant was retooled to Chrysler. They drove Jeeps.

[bpdblue]

I agree with SecTrainer that the vehicle issued for security needs depends on the ACTUAL needs of the company (which does basically eliminate the need for a vehicle needed for pursuits and high speeds. If your need includes the pursuit or high speed qualities of a veh, please detail that need, and the lawfulness of doing it in your area.)

Now to say you need the qualities of a police pursuit package because it has a better suspension, braking, cooling, transmission, ect, could have merits for you specific applications, but for general security use, the extra costs to buy, maintain, repair, ect, takes away profit from the company, and I'll be the first one to admit that I'd rather have any extra money in my pocket (as in a pay raise).

As long as a veh is maintained well, (like frequent oil changes, tire pressure checked, maintaining all fluids, belts and hoses) most cars and trucks these days would do a fine job for average security patrol work.

You could have the same arguments here about which motocycles are best for security work (harley-davidson, kawasaki, BMW, ect), or what kind of bicycles are best, or which flash lights, guns, ammo, underwear, are the best, or, well maybe I've gone a little too far here. :D

But my point is, if you can show you REALLY need it for your specific application, get that totally tricked out police cruiser, in Ferrari RED, and it's all good.

But, for everyday security needs, a good quality, well maintained vehicle, that has enough room in it for the passengers it will carry, and any equipment needed for you likely use, designed for the area your in (possibly a 4X4 in dirt terrain, ect), and your needs for working have been met, at the most reasonable over all costs to your company.

[Charger]

... If a truck suits your purpose, my short list includes the Honda Ridgeline, the Honda Ridgeline, and the Honda Ridgeline. :D ...

No offense SecTrainer, as you make some good points, and for the most part I agree with you that agencies should be looking at what vehicle suits their needs the most. But the Ridgeline is NOT a truck! :p I've seen far too many that people tried to take off-roading and ended up having to get towed out by their domestic counterparts due to suspension failure & various other things that weren't made to handle the abuse that a normal truck takes. :D We patrol quite a few sites that are, simply put, hell on our vehicles. The poor little Hyundais get flat tires almost all the time from driving through them, and the owner has been looking into getting a few trucks for the Officers who have to go into those areas. He is looking based on our needs, and the Ridgeline is NOT on his list.

Also, while the Odyssey is a good vehicle in it's own right, if you want a minivan you simply HAVE to go with a Dodge/Chrysler... They invented the darn things, and have been at the top of that market segment ever since. Honda & Toyota are the only ones who truly compete, and they've been lagging 2-3 years behind for as long as I can remember. While Dodge has had it's share of unreliability & other problems in the past, the minivan is one thing they've always done right.

Anyhow, my Mopar fanboyism is showing now, so I'll step off my soapbox. :D

[ddog]

No offense SecTrainer, as you make some good points, and for the most part I agree with you that agencies should be looking at what vehicle suits their needs the most. But the Ridgeline is NOT a truck! :p I've seen far too many that people tried to take off-roading and ended up having to get towed out by their domestic counterparts due to suspension failure & various other things that weren't made to handle the abuse that a normal truck takes. :D We patrol quite a few sites that are, simply put, hell on our vehicles. The poor little Hyundais get flat tires almost all the time from driving through them, and the owner has been looking into getting a few trucks for the Officers who have to go into those areas. He is looking based on our needs, and the Ridgeline is NOT on his list.

Also, while the Odyssey is a good vehicle in it's own right, if you want a minivan you simply HAVE to go with a Dodge/Chrysler... They invented the darn things, and have been at the top of that market segment ever since. Honda & Toyota are the only ones who truly compete, and they've been lagging 2-3 years behind for as long as I can remember. While Dodge has had it's share of unreliability & other problems in the past, the minivan is one thing they've always done right.

Anyhow, my Mopar fanboyism is showing now, so I'll step off my soapbox. :D

Wow, "no offense" is kind, but "make some good points" is a little extreme.

Anyone who lives in JD Powers books is buying the highest marketing dollar. All anyone has to do is go to the repair shop ONCE to figure out all the Toyota and Honda cost savings are imaginary at best. You are looking at double the repair costs, with limited shops to bargain with and delayed lead times (and you BETTER smile when you are getting ripped off!).

For someone who spends their own money, Japs are not even a feasible consideration. Toyota is getting billion dollar recalls from China, the same as the American car parts on the line right beside them. If you want Japanese marketeers and JD Powers to do your thinking for you, ask them to guarantee parts replacement costs and see how far that will get you.

It hard to believe ANYONE would even suggest such an alternative, but there are people getting tossed off turnip trucks every day off every corner it seems: except some are on a perpetual 'bumpy' turnip truck on a spiraling highway to hell.

[SecTrainer]

All anyone has to do is go to the repair shop ONCE to figure out all the Toyota and Honda cost savings are imaginary at best. You are looking at double the repair costs, with limited shops to bargain with and delayed lead times (and you BETTER smile when you are getting ripped off!).

That's not my experience at all. Shop rates are about the same, and I don't see the inside of my Honda shop very often like I do for the Ford, either. I get a free loaner from Honda, and the only time I have EVER waited for parts was when I ordered a custom hitch, which took a few days to arrive from the regional parts depot and was installed the same day. The Oldsmobile has been very good on repairs, I must admit, other than one episode where it coughed up a computer chip that ran into a goodly sum.

I've owned two vehicles that gave me 300K and 200K miles plus, respectively - a Toyota pickup and a Honda Civic. I have an Element now with 65K and it's only seen the shop for scheduled maintenance, ever. It's been all over hell and back and hasn't got a squeak or a rattle. I'm gonna sh1t-can the Ford at 110K, if it even makes it that far, which I seriously doubt. When I do, it won't be worth sh1t, either. However, since it drinks gas like a hog, I don't drive it much so it will take awhile to make the last miles. The Olds has 57K, so we'll see how it goes. The wife drives it and just putts around town, so the poor gas mileage isn't a big issue there. The Honda doesn't rob my pocketbook, and when I move into the next one, it will be worth much more than many other similar vehicles I could have bought - that's the plain and well-documented history of these cars.

See, that's what I mean by TOTAL cost of ownership. It's not shop rates, but how often you're in the shop. It's not shop rates, but operating costs. It's not what you pay new, but what you pay new MINUS what you get out at the other end. Talking about shop rates, even if they were substantially different, which they're not, is one teeny part of the picture.

...and I think JD Powers is a pretty respected source, along with Consumer Reports and information from Vehix, etc. Of course, if you run a testing agency and publish the results yourself, I'd sure be happy to look at them. Otherwise, I'll stick with the folks who do. They just might know something you don't.


It hard to believe ANYONE would even suggest such an alternative, but there are people getting tossed off turnip trucks every day off every corner it seems: except some are on a perpetual 'bumpy' turnip truck on a spiraling highway to hell.

You'd probably do yourself a big favor in life if you could figure out why you need to insert this kind of thing into your posts. Debate on the facts and leave the garbage out.

[CAP]

2004 Crown Vic.

I will try to Post some Pictures of some of our Units in the next couple of days.

[Minneapolis Security]

That's not my experience at all. Shop rates are about the same, and I don't see the inside of my Honda shop very often like I do for the Ford, either. I get a free loaner from Honda, and the only time I have EVER waited for parts was when I ordered a custom hitch, which took a few days to arrive from the regional parts depot and was installed the same day. The Oldsmobile has been very good on repairs, I must admit, other than one episode where it coughed up a computer chip that ran into a goodly sum.

I've owned two vehicles that gave me 300K and 200K miles plus, respectively - a Toyota pickup and a Honda Civic. I have an Element now with 65K and it's only seen the shop for scheduled maintenance, ever. It's been all over hell and back and hasn't got a squeak or a rattle. I'm gonna sh1t-can the Ford at 110K, if it even makes it that far, which I seriously doubt. When I do, it won't be worth sh1t, either. However, since it drinks gas like a hog, I don't drive it much so it will take awhile to make the last miles. The Olds has 57K, so we'll see how it goes. The wife drives it and just putts around town, so the poor gas mileage isn't a big issue there. The Honda doesn't rob my pocketbook, and when I move into the next one, it will be worth much more than many other similar vehicles I could have bought - that's the plain and well-documented history of these cars.

See, that's what I mean by TOTAL cost of ownership. It's not shop rates, but how often you're in the shop. It's not shop rates, but operating costs. It's not what you pay new, but what you pay new MINUS what you get out at the other end. Talking about shop rates, even if they were substantially different, which they're not, is one teeny part of the picture.

...and I think JD Powers is a pretty respected source, along with Consumer Reports and information from Vehix, etc. Of course, if you run a testing agency and publish the results yourself, I'd sure be happy to look at them. Otherwise, I'll stick with the folks who do. They just might know something you don't.



You'd probably do yourself a big favor in life if you could figure out why you need to insert this kind of thing into your posts. Debate on the facts and leave the garbage out.


Well for the record, as you may suspect, I have a 2006 CVPI as my patrol vehicle.

Does it cost more to operate than a Honda Element? Of course, but not dramatically more. But I have to wonder if I can easily set up a Honda Element for patrol/transport. I know Setina doesn't make a partition for the Honda.

The Honda has a 105 amp alternator vs. 200 amp for the CVPI. 105 amps just wouldn't cut it for running all the gear.

Getting a post mounted spotlight to work would likely require a body shop to notch the door post and prime and repaint that area.

But logistical problems aside, cost just can't be the only issue when selecting security equipment (including vehicles).

If it were the only issue, we would be carrying Hi Point 9mm's (used of course).

1 pair of "Lawpro" handcuffs
1 can of generic pepper spray
1 Dutyman Utility belt
1 cheap nylon (1 size fits most) holster
1 box of reloaded range ammo
1 pair of Walmart brand black shoes
1 Lawpro uniform coverall w/sewn on badge
1 Radio Shack 2-way radio
:confused: :confused:

Vehicle operating expense needs to be weighed against realistic use and function of the vehicle.

And I'm not saying the CVPI is the only car for the job, but it certainly has a proven track record.

[SecTrainer]

But logistical problems aside, cost just can't be the only issue when selecting security equipment (including vehicles).


We agree completely. I did try to make the point that we should be selecting cars that have the features we need (reliability, interior space, comfort, etc.) while being efficient to operate.

This is how I would suggest we select vehicles:

1. Create a list of vehicles that have all of the features you need. (This includes the ability to be outfitted with your gear, such as a Rhino bumper, spotlights, traffic director bar, etc., comfort, interior space, cargo space, 4WD if you need that, handling stability, etc.). Cost of ownership is NOT a consideration at this point. Even so, the list will not be very long if you filter out any that do not have every one of the features that you need.

2. Research available independent sources for reliability of the makes/models on your list, their safety ratings, durability. Eliminate any models that do not score high in these areas.

3. This probably leaves you with a pretty short list. Research these models for Total Cost of Ownership, including maintenance costs, purchase price and typical trade-in value (or leasing terms) based on the miles you expect to put on the car. Rank them in order from lowest TCO (which is good) at the top to highest TCO (which is bad) at the bottom. If leasing, you might have some issues with installing graphics and gear, as these may be disallowed as vehicle modifications, so be sure to check this out.

4. From the top 3 or 4 in your list, select the model(s) that you believe will represent your agency most favorably to the public in terms of appearance, available colors, etc. Some car manufacturers these days only put out certain models in colors that would look ridiculous as a patrol vehicle. Typically, you would want choices such as white, black, navy blue, royal blue, gold, silver, or a metallic brown/bronze - whatever your agency uses. (You might have state laws for security vehicles to consider here also.) Strike out any models that you consider to be inappropriate for a patrol vehicle in terms of appearance and/or colors.

5. Now, consider other factors, such as proximity of dealership to your operation, reputation of dealerships, and the availability of the model you select in the configuration that you want. Again, strike off any makes that will be problematic to acquire or maintain due to dealership issues.

By this point, you should know which vehicle to purchase or lease.

[SecureTN]

2004 Chevy Silverado Diesel
200Something Ford F250
2002 Ford Ranger
2004 Dodge Caravan
199Something Chevy Astrovan (with Transport Cage)

+ a few others, same basic idea. All white, state seal, no lightbars/strobes. Some have Rifle mounts and some (Ranger, Silverado) have no passenger seat.

[3rd_shift]

What have I done????
Looks at all the replies on this thread I started a while back! LOL!!!!
I'm glad I started this one. :)

[Tennsix]

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q149/Tennsix/car.jpg

[Black Caesar]

Niiccee. My College District (atleast the big money people lol) seem stuck on impalas and crown vics (with a scattering of SUVs of various types) maybe we'll come out of the stone age on day too lol.

[N. A. Corbier]

Having sat in an Impala recently, you can keep the damn things. I have yet to sit in a Charger.

[Black Caesar]

Having sat in an Impala recently, you can keep the damn things. I have yet to sit in a Charger.

Yea, one of our sister campus' newest vehicle is an Impala, the other 3 patrol vehicles assigned to that campus are crown vics (2 of em, of fairly recent vintage) and a Tahoe, they also have a marked van for transports. The Impala is ALWAYS the last vehicle to be taken, usually by the last patrol officer to make it out the door to the courtyard lol. It got so bad their Sgt started assigning vehicles rather than the old 1st come 1st served method lol.

Buddy of mine works for the DART Transit Police stopped by a few days ago in one of their new chargers, 1st time i've ever been in one, now THAT is a vehicle.

[Alaska Security]

Heh. One of my rides.

http://www.skynet-mk2.com/photos/work/patrol%20front.jpg

http://www.skynet-mk2.com/photos/work/patrol%20back.jpg

http://www.skynet-mk2.com/photos/work/interior.jpg
'06 GMC with 50,000 miles, 200-300 daily on patrol, truck box and back seat full of arctic gear, traffic control, emergency medical kit, incident response kit, and other goodies...Truck's got a Strobe bar with 2 amber front, 2 amber rear, 2 blue flashers rear, and rear/alley lights. Also have a motorola radio system that ties into our network of repeaters.. and a CB as well. 4 lightforce 140's up front, as well as a go-light on top that you see... have a rechargable maglite mounted in the truck as well, but I still carry my rechargable Streamlight since it's brighter and cleaner light.

[Black Caesar]

Nice Ride, Alaska. Still given that you're sitting on one of THE top terrorism targets this country has, I wish you had a tank and a few dozen heat seeking missles to go with it lol.

[Alaska Security]

The military actually has a significant contingency plan here...

[SecurityAussieStyle]

Here's one of our Patrol Cars, a current model Hyundai Getz, nowhere near as impressive as some of the vehicles in the post but effecient and effective.



http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h107/Happy_in_Life/PatrolCarFront.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h107/Happy_in_Life/PatrolCar.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h107/Happy_in_Life/PatrolCarRear.jpg

[Maelstrom]

Your logo looks similar to that of a medical services provider...

[SecTrainer]

Heh. One of my rides.

http://www.skynet-mk2.com/photos/work/interior.jpg


Do my eyes deceive me, or is your mike clipped to the steering wheel? How does that work?

[Black Caesar]

Optical illusion I think, the view is through the steering wheel, the clip is on the console I think.

[Alaska Security]

Motorola Mic holder is dash mounted, CB is console mounted. You're just seeing things... lol

[SecTrainer]

Motorola Mic holder is dash mounted, CB is console mounted. You're just seeing things... lol

Well, it's not the first time! :rolleyes:

[msofin]

When I worked for Vector we had 4 foor Chevy Trackers. Small SUV, but (surprisingly) reliable. Wackenhut, Jeep Liberty, that we never had as it was always in the shop. We did have a DOdge Charger as a rental from enterprise, wassn't very impressed. Allied, we used client vehicles. Started out with Two Ford Escapes, not bad but not great, a bit more reliable than the Liberty. On Occassion we would have a truck from enterprise when a patrol vehicle was in the shop. About a couple of years ago an officer totaled one of the Escapes traveling on a power line road. We ended up getting a new Dodge SUV, which make completely escapes me now...I'll post pics later.

[Hank1]

The other night, I stopped off at a local 7-11 in the zone I was working. When I pulled in the parking lot, I observed a Wackenhut Officer in a Dodge Nitro. Pretty sharp looking vehicle. I did not see any lights or other electronic equipmemt on or in the vehicle.

Be Safe,

Hank