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HotelSecurity
02-17-2011, 06:16 PM
A movie theater chain in Montreal has been found guilty in being excessive when searching bags of people entering the theater. http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110216/mtl_guzzo_110216/20110216/?hub=MontrealHome

EdmontonLP
02-17-2011, 07:45 PM
Let me start off by saying this:

I tend to go to the movie theatre alot. I spend alot of money at the movie theatre. However,


"Julie Berthiaume was going to see Shrek the Third at the theatre in 2007 with her two daughters when a security guard insisted on searching their purses, pulling out personal items in front of everyone in line."


Now I can see why they would have took the articles out onto more than likely a table. Nobody knows whats on someones person. That being said if you trained your staff properly on conducting a search and provided the proper equipment to safely do that this could have been all avioded.

The only times I have ever had my personal items removed from my bag have been going through airport security. However I have been requested to have my bag searched MULTIPLE TIMES. Between entering different events and such. They have in the past asked if they could search my bag while entering the premises. I have always allowed them to searched but I always tell them I dont consent to having my items removed from the bag.


"The search was done in abusive manner," said Berthiaume's lawyer Maxime Wilkins. "My client was faced with a fait accompli, she wasn't warned she would be searched and they never got her consent."


I have entered premises that do bag searches and everytime there has been some sort of sign stating bags my be checked for the following (lDrugs, Liquour etc). She could have choosen to refuse the search and leave the premises if she didnt feel it was right. If they refused to let her leave wouldnt that count as unlawful confindment?


Guzzo says his company has cancelled searches in all his theatres, even if they remain a target for piracy.


Cancelling searches could have been dealt with differently. I would say a proper training program to ensue the bag checks would have been better. Training the staff on asking permisision to do the bag searches, and on conducting the searches.

SecTrainer
02-17-2011, 08:03 PM
Sometimes they're just checking to make sure you're not bringing food/drinks into the theater (gotta protect those concession sales, which is where theaters make most of their money!).

However, if the movie studios want individual theater owners to enforce their property rights (prevent piracy), it seems to me that they should indemnify the theater owners from liability from lawsuits like this.

brentjk1
02-17-2011, 08:38 PM
Sometimes they're just checking to make sure you're not bringing food/drinks into the theater (gotta protect those concession sales, which is where theaters make most of their money!).

However, if the movie studios want individual theater owners to enforce their property rights (prevent piracy), it seems to me that they should indemnify the theater owners from liability from lawsuits like this.

I think it was more of a deterrent than an actual attempt at anything really "illicit", but in this case it was done incorrectly due to poor oversight and/or training and it caused a lawsuit. Sad to see it happen, but it's not exactly a surprise.

CTEXSEC1
02-17-2011, 08:47 PM
Wow...if the article is correct and they were really just dumping items out of bags, they deserve the suit.

We had to check for weapons, food, camera equipment, drugs, etc when I worked concert venues. We were NEVER allowed to remove an item from a bag. All we could do was ask them to open it and we could shine a light inside and ask them to move things around. If they refused, to open it or move items for us, they were barred entry. Of course, we had male and female officers to prevent any embarrassing discoveries, as my supervisor put it

HotelSecurity
02-17-2011, 11:38 PM
[/LIST]

The only times I have ever had my personal items removed from my bag have been going through airport security. However I have been requested to have my bag searched MULTIPLE TIMES. Between entering different events and such. They have in the past asked if they could search my bag while entering the premises. I have always allowed them to searched but I always tell them I dont consent to having my items removed from the bag.


"The search was done in abusive manner," said Berthiaume's lawyer Maxime Wilkins. "My client was faced with a fait accompli, she wasn't warned she would be searched and they never got her consent."


I have entered premises that do bag searches and everytime there has been some sort of sign stating bags my be checked for the following (lDrugs, Liquour etc). She could have choosen to refuse the search and leave the premises if she didnt feel it was right. If they refused to let her leave wouldnt that count as unlawful confindment?


You can refuse to be searched when boarding a plane. just be prepared to walk & or swim to uour destignation because you ain't flying :D

In this case the woman said she couldn't refuse & walk out because she had already bought her ticket. However she could have asked for a refund.

N. A. Corbier
02-18-2011, 09:11 AM
Sometimes they're just checking to make sure you're not bringing food/drinks into the theater (gotta protect those concession sales, which is where theaters make most of their money!).

However, if the movie studios want individual theater owners to enforce their property rights (prevent piracy), it seems to me that they should indemnify the theater owners from liability from lawsuits like this.

When I did piracy control gigs for $STUDIO, we did bag inspections. Which meant that we looked in your bag, and had you move stuff around. We didn't touch anything. Granted, we were also independent contractors working under a host security company licensee, which meant that we made up our own policies.

We also had nothing to do with the theatre and the only offense we would arrest for was movie piracy, or offenses related to our enforcement of the piracy control operation (public disorderly, etc.)

Limo LA
02-18-2011, 08:44 PM
California law treat differently between Retail/theater security and other security.

Retail/Theater Security CAN detain suspected customer and allowed to conduct search for stolen Item/Piracy tool (Camera).
compare to other security are not allow to "Detain" and can search only weapon.

Still, they don't touch or dump personal items from bag in front of public eyes unless subjects are not cooperative or refused to go office.

I often go stadium, concert and airport.
Security personal ask me to open my bag (waist pouch etc), they don't ask me to hand over whole bag to them.

most of time, I un-zip and make it wide open.
If they see something suspicious (small flashlight look like knife), they ask me to remove it from bag and hand it over to him to exam.
I think it should be proper way and look very professorial.

If I'm not mis-remembered, few years ago, Airport security (before TSA) asked lady to hand over her bag and dump whole items to tray.
There was woman's adult toy among with other items on tray right in front of bunch of other passengers.
Security and company get sued.
a Lady said "I hand it over but I didn't know he will dump whole item to public eyes."

Montreal mother might had something that she doesn't want to show to public eyes other than lip stick ;)

ptbeast
02-19-2011, 12:23 AM
I have done bag searches both manually and with the aid of an X-ray machine, in situations from concerts and sporting events to federal facilities to schools. Each required a different procedure and level of scrutiny. While I have conducted searches where I did move items in the bag after the person opened it (the most practical way to search a huge number of student backpacks, for example), I have never done, or even seen, a search where all of a person's items were dumped out on a table in public.

There are a couple of points to be taken from this case. A warning that bags would be searched at or prior to purchasing of tickets would have helped. Having the security officer say something as simple as "I need to check your bag, please open it for me" would have helped a lot.

Beyond that, a little sensitivity goes a long ways.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head...

Dave

Curtis Baillie
02-19-2011, 07:32 AM
A movie theater chain in Montreal has been found guilty in being excessive when searching bags of people entering the theater. http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110216/mtl_guzzo_110216/20110216/?hub=MontrealHomeI read elsewhere that when they dumped one of the daughters purses they found birth control pill - the mother didn't know she had them.

Curtis Baillie
02-19-2011, 07:58 AM
California law treat differently between Retail/theater security and other security.

Retail/Theater Security CAN detain suspected customer and allowed to conduct search for stolen Item/Piracy tool (Camera).
compare to other security are not allow to "Detain" and can search only weapon.
Actually the California statutes 490.5 (4) states:

"A merchant, theater owner, a person employed by a library
facility, or an agent thereof, having probable cause to believe the
person detained was attempting to unlawfully take or has taken any
item from the premises, or was attempting to operate a video
recording device within the premises of a motion picture theater
without the authority of the owner of the theater, may request the
person detained to voluntarily surrender the item or recording.
Should the person detained refuse to surrender the recording or item
of which there is probable cause to believe has been recorded on or
unlawfully taken from the premises, or attempted to be recorded or
unlawfully taken from the premises, a limited and reasonable search
may be conducted by those authorized to make the detention in order
to recover the item. Only packages, shopping bags, handbags or other
property in the immediate possession of the person detained, but not
including any clothing worn by the person, may be searched pursuant
to this subdivision. Upon surrender or discovery of the item, the
person detained may also be requested, but may not be required, to
provide adequate proof of his or her true identity."

Notice the statute states "probable cause" Someone bringing a bag into a theater would not constitute Probable cause.

bigshotceo
02-19-2011, 08:25 AM
As an example of why it's really important to make it obvious why bags are being searched at any particular movie, I present the following example that I experienced a few years ago.

The movie "Coach Carter", which was about Samuel Jackson teacher a group of inner-city minority youth to overcome obstacles, was being premiered, because it was a premiere we were contracted to do bag searches for cameras. The problem was, though, that the attendees for Coach Carter were predominantly black, whereas the attendees for the other movies at the theatre that day were mostly white. To anyone observing, and to some of the people waiting in line for Coach Carter, it looked like we had selected only the movie with a predominantly black audience for screening :eek:

HotelSecurity
02-19-2011, 12:34 PM
As an example of why it's really important to make it obvious why bags are being searched at any particular movie, I present the following example that I experienced a few years ago.

The movie "Coach Carter", which was about Samuel Jackson teacher a group of inner-city minority youth to overcome obstacles, was being premiered, because it was a premiere we were contracted to do bag searches for cameras. The problem was, though, that the attendees for Coach Carter were predominantly black, whereas the attendees for the other movies at the theatre that day were mostly white. To anyone observing, and to some of the people waiting in line for Coach Carter, it looked like we had selected only the movie with a predominantly black audience for screening :eek:

An example of the difference between Canada & the US. In the US the theatre would be out of business from the ton of lawsuits. Here, out of the 100s of people having their bags searched in the manner this woman had, only 1 sued.

Limo LA
02-19-2011, 03:25 PM
Notice the statute states "probable cause" Someone bringing a bag into a theater would not constitute Probable cause.

Yes, I knew.
I tried to do brief explanation by using word "Suspected customer" rather than quote actual PC490.5.

It means "After" they commit crime. not "Before".

Theatre and retail security can conduct search for items other than weapon "After" person commit crime. (if they have probable cause to believe the person did)
and they don't have to arrest person before conduct search.
other security can search only weapon after arrest was made.

But still, either case, it have to be after crime had been committed or in progress (even if crime was in fact true or not).

Bag check before entering property, it should be nothing but customer's full voluntary free will.
Only we (security) can do is request to leave property if they don't cooperate.

That means, we are not searching. Customer is voluntary showing us contents.
if we dump contents to table, we have to ask them before we do so. because whole action (bag check) is based on customer's voluntary will with full consent.

bag check before entering property is not same as weapon search after arrest nor stolen item search while detaining.



only 1 sued.

I'm glad I didn't go movie in Canada.
i would sue if security dump my condom, Viagra pills and adult magazines to public eyes especially if I was with female friend;).
Then I will be Canadian news "American man sued Canadian Security because Canadian security dump his condom and Viagra pills to public eyes at movie theater"

Curtis Baillie
02-19-2011, 04:18 PM
"Only we (security) can do is request to leave property if they don't cooperate." So let's take this a little further. If the person is lawfully on the property and has bought a ticket to a movie and they refuse to let someone look into or search their bag - they are requested to leave the property? What if they don't want to leave, what do you do then?

HotelSecurity
02-19-2011, 05:23 PM
"Only we (security) can do is request to leave property if they don't cooperate." So let's take this a little further. If the person is lawfully on the property and has bought a ticket to a movie and they refuse to let someone look into or search their bag - they are requested to leave the property? What if they don't want to leave, what do you do then?

Give them their money back & order them to leave, then use the force necessary to remove them if you live where they don't have a trespass to property at? (Probably the wrong answer). But isn't a movie theater a private place that the public has been invited into?

Anyway on Sundays at 14h00 radio station CJAD (www.cjad.com), has a lawyer on giving free legal advice. This week he will be talking about this subject. Thanks to the www all of you can listen.

Limo LA
02-19-2011, 05:26 PM
If the person is lawfully on the property and has bought a ticket to a movie and they refuse to let someone look into or search their bag -

they are requested to leave the property? What if they don't want to leave, what do you do then?

I think so.

Lawful business and private property owner can make any (if lawful) rule in their own private property.
"You must show your contents before enter our property"
can be one of rule.
"You have to wear shirt and shoes" maybe one.
also
"No firearm" would be one of private rule.
but unlawful rule as "you must bring 1oz of cocaine to enter " may be nulled.

and they have right to refuse to anyone enter their private property even place for open to public (except court order).

Once owner or its agent (security) deny to anyone enter property and request to leave, the person have to leave in reasonable time or committing trespass.
He is no longer "lawfully on property" once he was told to leave.
(in California) owner or agents are not allowed to physically force them to leave (grab, drag, push to outside of property. means no touching) but can arrest them.

Customer has choice of
Show contents (follow private rule) and enter.
Refuse to show contents and leave
Refuse to show contents and refuse to leave (committing trespass, can be arrested)

if they want refund for ticket they already bought, it's different matter.
ticket is not guarantee for entrance, it's just one of requirement to enter.

5423
02-19-2011, 06:05 PM
I think so.

Lawful business and private property owner can make any (if lawful) rule in their own private property.
"You must show your contents before enter our property"
can be one of rule.
"You have to wear shirt and shoes" maybe one.
also
"No firearm" would be one of private rule.
but unlawful rule as "you must bring 1oz of cocaine to enter " maybe nulled.

and they have right to refuse to anyone enter their private property...

Kinda-sorta; but remember, this is the good ol' (post-ACLU) US of A: Anyone can bring civil suit over virtually anything. I've got a dandy example, in a couple of local thugs (known felons) who once broke into my Dad's store: they forced their way thru a roof vent, fell 8 feet thru the attic, on thru the ceiling, and onto the floor 10 feet below - then tried suing the Old Man for their injuries, AND the police officer who responded to the alarm call and arrested them in the alley outside the store (they broke the window to get OUT)... for profiling!! They lost the lawsuit, but it still cost Pop about $50,000 in attorneys' fees, etc.

Your examples are apt, but there are other considerations that would rear their ugly heads during the course of a lawsuit, such as the property owner showing reasonable cause for enacting a given policy (in this case, the policy at the center of the lawsuit).

For example: "No shirt, no shoes: no entry" is perfectly applicable in, say, a beachfront restaurant. At a condominium swimming pool: not so much. "All personnel entering and/or leaving ____ must submit to a search of all belongings" would be apt for many private businesses (a jewelry manufacturer, gold mill, high-tech research facility, prescription drug manufacturer, etc)... but how 'bout for a retail clothing store?

So, yes: as long as the property owners' policies are not proscribed by law (as would be your example with the cocaine), said property owner can set whatever policies he/she/they want... but that doesn't mean they couldn't be sued, and could well lose the suit.

Security protects the client/business/occupant - liability being one of the major threats to most of our clients/employers in this business. Every day, we have to balance our employers' needs (our mandated taskings, protecting the property from direct loss) against potential loss of business revenue, potential dollars spent in civil court (even successful defenses cost a ton o' dough), etc. It's a complicated world we work in, nowadays.

But hey; if it was easy, everybody'd wanna do this, right? :p

HotelSecurity
02-19-2011, 07:08 PM
Kinda-sorta; but remember, this is the good ol' (post-ACLU) US of A: Anyone can bring civil suit over virtually anything. I've got a dandy example, in a couple of local thugs (known felons) who once broke into my Dad's store: they forced their way thru a roof vent, fell 8 feet thru the attic, on thru the ceiling, and onto the floor 10 feet below - then tried suing the Old Man for their injuries, AND the police officer who responded to the alarm call and arrested them in the alley outside the store (they broke the window to get OUT)... for profiling!! They lost the lawsuit, but it still cost Pop about $50,000 in attorneys' fees, etc.

Your examples are apt, but there are other considerations that would rear their ugly heads during the course of a lawsuit, such as the property owner showing reasonable cause for enacting a given policy (in this case, the policy at the center of the lawsuit).

For example: "No shirt, no shoes: no entry" is perfectly applicable in, say, a beachfront restaurant. At a condominium swimming pool: not so much. "All personnel entering and/or leaving ____ must submit to a search of all belongings" would be apt for many private businesses (a jewelry manufacturer, gold mill, high-tech research facility, prescription drug manufacturer, etc)... but how 'bout for a retail clothing store?

So, yes: as long as the property owners' policies are not proscribed by law (as would be your example with the cocaine), said property owner can set whatever policies he/she/they want... but that doesn't mean they couldn't be sued, and could well lose the suit.

Security protects the client/business/occupant - liability being one of the major threats to most of our clients/employers in this business. Every day, we have to balance our employers' needs (our mandated taskings, protecting the property from direct loss) against potential loss of business revenue, potential dollars spent in civil court (even successful defenses cost a ton o' dough), etc. It's a complicated world we work in, nowadays.

But hey; if it was easy, everybody'd wanna do this, right? :p

I guess we better not use Curtis' weapon to kill all the lawyers. We might need some :)

Curtis Baillie
02-20-2011, 06:53 AM
Kinda-sorta; but remember, this is the good ol' (post-ACLU) US of A: Anyone can bring civil suit over virtually anything. I've got a dandy example, in a couple of local thugs (known felons) who once broke into my Dad's store: they forced their way thru a roof vent, fell 8 feet thru the attic, on thru the ceiling, and onto the floor 10 feet below - then tried suing the Old Man for their injuries, AND the police officer who responded to the alarm call and arrested them in the alley outside the store (they broke the window to get OUT)... for profiling!! They lost the lawsuit, but it still cost Pop about $50,000 in attorneys' fees, etc.

Your examples are apt, but there are other considerations that would rear their ugly heads during the course of a lawsuit, such as the property owner showing reasonable cause for enacting a given policy (in this case, the policy at the center of the lawsuit).

For example: "No shirt, no shoes: no entry" is perfectly applicable in, say, a beachfront restaurant. At a condominium swimming pool: not so much. "All personnel entering and/or leaving ____ must submit to a search of all belongings" would be apt for many private businesses (a jewelry manufacturer, gold mill, high-tech research facility, prescription drug manufacturer, etc)... but how 'bout for a retail clothing store?

So, yes: as long as the property owners' policies are not proscribed by law (as would be your example with the cocaine), said property owner can set whatever policies he/she/they want... but that doesn't mean they couldn't be sued, and could well lose the suit.

Security protects the client/business/occupant - liability being one of the major threats to most of our clients/employers in this business. Every day, we have to balance our employers' needs (our mandated taskings, protecting the property from direct loss) against potential loss of business revenue, potential dollars spent in civil court (even successful defenses cost a ton o' dough), etc. It's a complicated world we work in, nowadays.

But hey; if it was easy, everybody'd wanna do this, right? :pSo, this policy is posted in obvious places before the customer buys the ticket and is printed on the ticket itself? Your checking every bag, including ladies purses and "man bags" without exception - for every show from opening to close?

5423
02-20-2011, 11:20 AM
So, this policy is posted in obvious places before the customer buys the ticket and is printed on the ticket itself? Your checking every bag, including ladies purses and "man bags" without exception - for every show from opening to close?

Good question, Curtis; and I don't know. I was just trying to advise Limo not to forget that establishing policies may be a little more complicated than simply weighing the legalities.

My experience with private business policy is pretty much limited to retail stores and mining; two very different occupancies, but pretty specific in nature. I would suspect that privately owned entertainment venues have their own set of liability issues. So when it comes to occupancies such as theaters, I have no idea what will and won't be defensible in the "real world" of civil court.

EDIT: I can tell you from experience that here at the mine, corporate legal had me post a very specifically-worded sign at the (one and only) gate, to the effect that "All personnel, vehicles, and personal property are subject to search at any time..." (my italics). By posting this, according to the legal eagles' research, we may (in this state - don't know about any others) search pretty much whoever, wherever, and whenever we feel the need, as long as they're on the property, and as long as we're careful not to establish a pattern of either profiling or harassment. But remember: this is Nevada, a state born of the Comstock Lode mines; the courts in NV can be a bit shaded in favor of the mining industry in some areas of interpretation of the law...



Hotel; No-no-no... please do! If they're all eliminated from the picture, then we wouldn't need any for our defense either, would we?

Curtis Baillie
02-20-2011, 12:42 PM
Good question, Curtis; and I don't know. I was just trying to advise Limo not to forget that establishing policies may be a little more complicated than simply weighing the legalities.

My experience with private business policy is pretty much limited to retail stores and mining; two very different occupancies, but pretty specific in nature. I would suspect that privately owned entertainment venues have their own set of liability issues. So when it comes to occupancies such as theaters, I have no idea what will and won't be defensible in the "real world" of civil court.

EDIT: I can tell you from experience that here at the mine, corporate legal had me post a very specifically-worded sign at the (one and only) gate, to the effect that "All personnel, vehicles, and personal property are subject to search at any time..." (my italics). By posting this, according to the legal eagles' research, we may (in this state - don't know about any others) search pretty much whoever, wherever, and whenever we feel the need, as long as they're on the property, and as long as we're careful not to establish a pattern of either profiling or harassment. But remember: this is Nevada, a state born of the Comstock Lode mines; the courts in NV can be a bit shaded in favor of the mining industry in some areas of interpretation of the law...



Hotel; No-no-no... please do! If they're all eliminated from the picture, then we wouldn't need any for our defense either, would we?I understand. My questions are meant to point out that if you're going to establish a policy you need to make sure there is proper public notice and then enforce the policy(s) in such a manner as not to discriminate.

HotelSecurity
02-20-2011, 02:17 PM
Give them their money back & order them to leave, then use the force necessary to remove them if you live where they don't have a trespass to property at? (Probably the wrong answer). But isn't a movie theater a private place that the public has been invited into?

Anyway on Sundays at 14h00 radio station CJAD (www.cjad.com), has a lawyer on giving free legal advice. This week he will be talking about this subject. Thanks to the www all of you can listen.

Oops. It was at 13h00 not 14h00. Sorry! :o

Limo LA
02-20-2011, 02:19 PM
> 5423

Yes, I do understand it is complicated.

I just point out simply " Private property owner can establish any, if legal, private rule in his/her property and right to request to eave property to anybody at anytime".

and I see many property who would do bag check shows sign slimier to your sign, most has word "All bag" and "Subject to search" and some sign has "All time".

how they conduct and react is very sensitive matter.
50,000 casual attendee enter to Ball park, large CD/Book/baseball-card shop in low income area and 200 guest of billionars (include some lawyer) attend on Pre-Oscar and after Grammy party in somebody's Mansion (or 5 star hotel).

they all conduct differently.
One thing I can point is " No camera allowed. this is include cell phone with camera. you maybe leave it at security check point" at Grammy, Emmy, G Globe, Oscar and it's after and pre parties invitation.
this means No cell phone nowdays (all cell phone include pre-paid inexpensive phone) has camera capability.

But almost all of attendee call his/her driver from their own cell (or assistant's cell) when they leave party.
(that is how they enforce private rule)

and G.Globe (Beverly Hills PD) and Oscar (LAPD) at Vehicle check point, some of officers wears tuxedo with LAPD (BHPD) lapel pin to check Invitation and uniformed officer conduct vehicle check.
(how they conduct private rule)

It is deferent than CD shop or ballpark.

It shows "All vehicles are subject to search before enter" in invitation/Limo pass and they do it very strictly.
But....I always carry weapons (gun, taser, mace, baton) but they've never spot'm out.
(I don't hide it, and invitation doesn't show weapons are prohibit because many of guests come with armed guards)

Also, LAX vehicle check point, They've never spot my weapon (it is legal to me but they should spot and ask me if I have permit or what I do with those weapons)

So, I know it is very complicated in real world.
But simply, I do think they can do bag check with customer's full will and consent before enter private property and have right to request to leave "any" guest from property at "anytime (without prior notice or sign)"

also, as I wrote, if I was same situation as that Montreal mother, I would sue security (not theatre)

Limo LA
02-20-2011, 03:12 PM
My questions are meant to point out that if you're going to establish a policy you need to make sure there is proper public notice and then enforce the policy(s) in such a manner as not to discriminate.

I do agree for that point as real complicated world.

People can sue anybody anytime, any incident.
and Security is Owner's agent (include business point of view)

We have to be careful how we conduct.
especially, if we show person's private item to public (not only security's eye)
I wouldn't do that (show person's private item to public at check point)

if airport body X-ray picture shows to public, millions of people sue TSA, I guess.

HotelSecurity
02-20-2011, 06:49 PM
Curtis,

I've been taught that in Quebec those "not responsible for theft or damage" signs or writting on the back of claim tickets carry no legal weight here. The person actually has to sign or initial something showing that they have read the disclaimer & agree to it.

Curtis Baillie
02-20-2011, 07:18 PM
Curtis,

I've been taught that in Quebec those "not responsible for theft or damage" signs or writting on the back of claim tickets carry no legal weight here. The person actually has to sign or initial something showing that they have read the disclaimer & agree to it.In Quebec that is also my understanding. And I can tell you they don't hold much water here in the US. Take for example a tow truck storage yard where towed cars are kept. Just posting a "not responsible for theft or damage" sign is not enough. If the cars are stored on an open lot and not properly secured from the general public and safely kept - the tow lot can be held responsible. Just having a sign does not exonerate them from liability.

HotelSecurity
02-20-2011, 09:31 PM
In Quebec that is also my understanding. And I can tell you they don't hold much water here in the US. Take for example a tow truck storage yard where towed cars are kept. Just posting a "not responsible for theft or damage" sign is not enough. If the cars are stored on an open lot and not properly secured from the general public and safely kept - the tow lot can be held responsible. Just having a sign does not exonerate them from liability.

I didn't want to go off topic. I brought up the not respoinsible for loss or damages wondering if a sign posted before someone bought their movie ticket would hold water here?

Limo LA
02-21-2011, 04:05 PM
I think Liability and condition to enter (age, weapon, camera, must pay ticket, etc) are different matter.

When you go car repair shop,
you see sign shows "Customers must stay in waiting room. do not enter work area"
It's not written in work order which I signed before they start to work.

I don't think I can sue repair shop for " paper I signed didn't say I can not enter work area during repair. I like to go under my car with mechanic to see how they repair my car."

but someone may sue them if repair shop take all personal items out of trunk and back seat then line them up at parking lot to do oil change.
some people may have underwear in trunk, maybe condom in console box.

I don't want to make subject to too much sexual direction but my point is personal items are very sensitive to handle.
I think those are not liability issue nor condition to enter (Private property's private rule).
Montreal mother sued because security showed her (and daughter's ) personal items to public.

When I clean back of limo during charter, sometime I've seen "sensitive personal items" in back of limo too.
Well, not always...just sometimes.
I don't let anyone enter to limo during charter. because personal Items are there.
Those are not supposed to show to anyone (even just jacket or shoes)

I guess it maybe similar to hotel's guest room policy.
house keeper, maintenance and security may enter if necessary but never show contents of room to public if room is occupied.
I think it's because both Liability issue and confidential issue.

so, only my opinion, theater security may check items in bag but should never show it to public.

N. A. Corbier
02-21-2011, 05:27 PM
"Only we (security) can do is request to leave property if they don't cooperate." So let's take this a little further. If the person is lawfully on the property and has bought a ticket to a movie and they refuse to let someone look into or search their bag - they are requested to leave the property? What if they don't want to leave, what do you do then?

This was even more interesting when we were ICs running under the request of $STUDIO, and $DIRECTOR, not the theater. We almost had someone refuse consent to search, and I was doing the bag checks.

In that case, I would of told him to go talk to the theater manager for a refund. If he became public disorderly, I would of had the theater security people remove/arrest him for said crime. He's not getting past my door, but he really isn't my problem, he's the theater's.