Some questions about the job

[SEOHopeful1]

Hi I'm 21 and have a pretty ok background(one minor arrest for simple assault when I was 16 and a marijuan charge when I was 19 but i've grown since). That has dashed my chances of become a policeofficer But i've recently become interested in security enforcement.

I have some questions about the training. I'd imagine it is very similiar to police training since the jobs go hand in hand, but what is the PT like for the private sector? How many hours of training do you undergo until you can finally hit the streets? I figure the training is done in a very para-military atmosphere. But do they eventually let up on you as you prove yourself acceptable to wear the badge? Also how much of the training is waiverable to become a police officer? Finally once you graduate do you get full authority 24/7 or only while on duty. And if you are armed can you carry in other states?

I'm real excited about this chance. Sorry if these questions are dumb I'm new to the game

[The_Mayor]

Also how much of the training is waiverable to become a police officer?

The police academy training is not considered equivalent to us. You couldn't just go through a police academy and then get a certification. You have to be trained in Security. Take Security training and pass the state test.

Try not to compare the police to security. We are like the police only we are above.

[N. A. Corbier]

Hi I'm 21 and have a pretty ok background(one minor arrest for simple assault when I was 16 and a marijuan charge when I was 19 but i've grown since). That has dashed my chances of become a policeofficer But i've recently become interested in security enforcement.

I have some questions about the training. I'd imagine it is very similiar to police training since the jobs go hand in hand, but what is the PT like for the private sector? How many hours of training do you undergo until you can finally hit the streets? I figure the training is done in a very para-military atmosphere. But do they eventually let up on you as you prove yourself acceptable to wear the badge? Also how much of the training is waiverable to become a police officer? Finally once you graduate do you get full authority 24/7 or only while on duty. And if you are armed can you carry in other states?

I'm real excited about this chance. Sorry if these questions are dumb I'm new to the game

Ok, first, welcome to SecurityInfoWatch.com. That having said,

What state are you in?

Oh, and the very most important question, which anime do you like? Some can be a disqualifier. A complete background investigation will include checking your credit report for charges to ADV, Amazon, etc.

Oh, and guys? I know of companies that are like what this person is describing. :) Personally, without a background investigation and criminal records check, I can't comment on if you would be hired by some companies, but there are always companies that will put you in a shirt with a square badge and let you stand a static post where you can practice reading, needlework, or school studies.

For me, assault is not a disqualifer, however, misdomeanor battery may be. Marajuana Poesssion may or may not be a disqualifier in your state, any felony is.

And, um, I do have to agree with The_Mayor. Just as security training (for those who get it) is only similar in some aspects to police training, police training is not completely compatible with security training. This is why in most states, a certified LEO must take state security officer firearms training - you are using deadly force without the protection of public office.

[Tennsix]

The police academy training is not considered equivalent to us. You couldn't just go through a police academy and then get a certification. You have to be trained in Security. Take Security training and pass the state test.

Try not to compare the police to security. We are like the police only we are above.
I am not sure I follow. What do you mean?

[davis002]

The police academy training is not considered equivalent to us. You couldn't just go through a police academy and then get a certification. You have to be trained in Security. Take Security training and pass the state test.

Try not to compare the police to security. We are like the police only we are above.

Mayor, please refrain from applying your own personal opinions to the rest of the industry. I am referring to your statement, "We are like the police only we are above." That is a personal opinion, and you are in no position to speak for the industry as a whole.

Also, your advice lacks the finer details that this individual was requesting. Perhaps you can explain to this individual what your state requires for basic security training? You can go in further detail on what is required by your state to carry a firearm while employed as a security officer. As well as legal issues regarding arrest authority, or specific laws that apply to security officers in your state.

[The_Mayor]

......Or even better..
SEOHopeful1, provide the name of the state in which you live, and I'll PM you some info on Security in your state.

Just here to help. :)

[Tennsix]

This is why in most states, a certified LEO must take state security officer firearms training - you are using deadly force without the protection of public office.
There is no such requirement in Indiana. Could you elaborate?

Actually, Indiana has no mandated secuirty officer training. LEO's that work security, In Indiana, are still consider police officers and are authorized to use their police powers.

[davis002]

......Or even better..
SEOHopeful1, provide the name of the state in which you live, and I'll PM you some info on Security in your state.

Just here to help. :)

You have been in security for less than 4-months... How are you all of the sudden an expert on security regardless of what state it may be?

[Tennsix]

You have been in security for less than 4-months... How are you all of the sudden an expert on security regardless of what state it may be?
Perhaps he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

[davis002]

Don't get me wrong Mayor, maybe in the 4-months you learned quite a bit. Shopping Centers can be full of shoplifting, loitering, trespassing, vagrants, drug activity, etc. For all I know, you work in an 8-tenant strip mall. Or is it something else?

[The_Mayor]

How are you all of the sudden an expert on security regardless of what state it may be?

I have never proclaimed to be an "expert on security".....perhaps you are?

[davis002]

Mayor, are the gangs in Novato as bad as you make them sound?

[Tennsix]

Mayor, are the gangs in Novato as bad as you make them sound?
You mean they have outlaw skateboard gangs?

[SEOHopeful1]

i am in nj but i may go to pennsylvania because it is easier to have a gun.

[davis002]

i am in nj but i may go to pennsylvania because it is easier to have a gun.

If you are only interested in becoming a security officer to carry a firearm, I am having a hard time understanding your true reasons for wanting to become a security officer.

Explain to us why you truly feel you want to become a security officer.

[The_Mayor]

Don't doubt yourself..you can do it! :)

[The_Mayor]

You mean they have outlaw skateboard gangs?

No, that would be Santa Rosa. Novato has outlaw rollerskate gangs (ORGs).
As far as membership goes they will not recruit in-line skaters..only rollerskaters. :D

[davis002]

No, that would be Santa Rosa. Novato has outlaw rollerskate gangs (ORGs).
As far as membership goes they will not recruit in-line skaters..only rollerskaters. :D

Correct me if i'm wrong, but awhile back didn't you say you work at a mall that is in a gang-infested? I thought it was Novato or something with you being in the North Bay. What type of gang activity do you encounter at the mall? Any idea what gang(s) are involved (GD, VL, Bloods, Etc.)?

[N. A. Corbier]

Perhaps he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

I got one up on him, then. I worked at a Holiday Inn, and a Hampton Inn, AND a Days Inn, all on one patrol account!

:)

[N. A. Corbier]

There is no such requirement in Indiana. Could you elaborate?

Actually, Indiana has no mandated secuirty officer training. LEO's that work security, In Indiana, are still consider police officers and are authorized to use their police powers.

Sure. Some states mandate that a private security officer is not a sworn law enforcement officer, and may not carry on their public authority, when working for a private security company, nor are they sworn law enforcement officers until they clearly identify themselves as such to a subject. Florida law, for example, makes this very clear.

I use this to explain why: You have a skateboarder, or a bar drunk. You are an off-duty deputy sheriff, who is employed as a security officer. You are wearing your security company uniform, with your security company badge. You are not displaying any badge or credential of public office.

You take enforcement action against the person, and they strike you. You then take them to the ground, and arrest them for battery on a law enforcement officer, as you are an off duty law enforcement officer.

The State of Florida has found that you are indeed NOT a deputy sheriff in a security company uniform, you are a private security officer. You must clearly identify your public authority, before the attack, or before your arrest, or else you are being attacked or taking action as a private citizen.

This was found by the State, because there was a serious amount of deputies and off duty police officers who would wear a security company uniform, get into trouble, and then kick some ass as trained, and inform the bad guy after the fact they hit a cop and are going for it.

As far as the firearms certification: Several states have required firearms courses, which consist of study of statute, examination and nomenclature of the authorized firearm, range qualification with the authorized firearm, and legality of private security use of force. Because these courses differ so much from law enforcement training, due to the law enforcement officer having civil and criminal immunity, states feel that the law enforcement officer acting as a private security officer - as a private citizen, must be held to the same standards as other armed private citizens. They must be registered, licensed, and trained in the limitations of their civil rights and criminal immunity for justifable force.

Now, when you are off-duty, on an agency authorized "short call," working on behalf of the public authority you are sworn by, such as a Sheriff or Chief of Police, you are wearing your police uniform, carrying under color of law, and operating a police vehicle - you are a sworn law enforcement officer, the public knows you are, and most security statues don't apply to you.

[The_Mayor]

Any idea what gang(s) are involved (GD, VL, Bloods, Etc.)?

Nortenos and Serrenos.

[YouWishYou WereMe]

LOL you guys still kill me. :D

Your damn skippy police training isnt the same as security training. They dont give us a flashlight and show us how to turn it on then set us loose. We actually are trained self defense, fire arms, state law, etc.

[N. A. Corbier]

LOL you guys still kill me. :D

Your damn skippy police training isnt the same as security training. They dont give us a flashlight and show us how to turn it on then set us loose. We actually are trained self defense, fire arms, state law, etc.

Actually, in Wisconsin, they do just that.

And anyone WONDER why I'm taking about training and standards?

[davis002]

Sure. Some states mandate that a private security officer is not a sworn law enforcement officer, and may not carry on their public authority, when working for a private security company, nor are they sworn law enforcement officers until they clearly identify themselves as such to a subject. Florida law, for example, makes this very clear.

I use this to explain why: You have a skateboarder, or a bar drunk. You are an off-duty deputy sheriff, who is employed as a security officer. You are wearing your security company uniform, with your security company badge. You are not displaying any badge or credential of public office.

You take enforcement action against the person, and they strike you. You then take them to the ground, and arrest them for battery on a law enforcement officer, as you are an off duty law enforcement officer.

The State of Florida has found that you are indeed NOT a deputy sheriff in a security company uniform, you are a private security officer. You must clearly identify your public authority, before the attack, or before your arrest, or else you are being attacked or taking action as a private citizen.

This was found by the State, because there was a serious amount of deputies and off duty police officers who would wear a security company uniform, get into trouble, and then kick some ass as trained, and inform the bad guy after the fact they hit a cop and are going for it.

Our company will at times hire licensed officers to work for us on a part-time basis. In order for them to do so, they are required to ok everything with the sheriff/chief of their department before we can employ them.

On one occasion one of our officers, of whom was a licensed officer from a metropolitan department, was assaulted by an individual he was arresting for a trespass violation. He deployed chemical spray, took the individual to the ground and placed him in physical restraints.

In the state of Minnesota, we have five levels of assault.



Assault in the First Degree: Great Bodily Harm; Felony
Assault in the Second Degree: Dangerous Weapon (firearms, knives, glass bottles, etc); Felony
Assault in the Third Degree: Substantial Bodily Harm; Felony
Assault in the Fourth Degree: Peace Officers, Firefighters, EMS; Gross Misdemeanor or Felony (Depends on whether or not bodily harm inflicted)
Assault in the Fifth Degree: commits an act with intent to cause fear in another of immediate bodily harm or death; or intentionally inflicts or attempts to inflict bodily harm upon another. Misdemeanor


He arrested the individual for Fifth Degree Assault and Trespassing. Had the same incident occured while he was on-duty as a police officer, he could of then arrested for Fourth Degree Assault.

This is due to the fact that while he is on-duty, working for our company he operates under citizens arrest authority. The only benefit he has is the ability to check for warrants much quicker than the rest of us! :)

[SEOHopeful1]

I want to get into security because I want to help people and work on the good side of the law. The only reason I want a weapon is because if I'm going to lay my life on the line to protect civilians in malls and theaters and housing projects I'd like to also be able to protect myself, it's not exactly the safest job ya know and I wouldn't feel comfortable clearing a buiding with an armed man inside with only a flashlight.

So you're telling me none of the security training is lateral to police? Like if I went through a security academy and then wanted to be a policeman Id have to do their academy too? thats dumb You'd think at least firearms and handcuffing and basical criminal law and patrol procedures would be accepted.


What about ranks? How long does it take to get to be a sargint or a kernel?

[Mr. Security]

Perhaps he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Won't work. Has to be a Holiday Inn Express:D

[davis002]

I want to get into security because I want to help people and work on the good side of the law. The only reason I want a weapon is because if I'm going to lay my life on the line to protect civilians in malls and theaters and housing projects I'd like to also be able to protect myself, it's not exactly the safest job ya know and I wouldn't feel comfortable clearing a buiding with an armed man inside with only a flashlight.

So you're telling me none of the security training is lateral to police? Like if I went through a security academy and then wanted to be a policeman Id have to do their academy too? thats dumb You'd think at least firearms and handcuffing and basical criminal law and patrol procedures would be accepted.


What about ranks? How long does it take to get to be a sargint or a kernel?

Each security company has it's own policies, procedures, rank structure, etc. One thing you have to remember about being a security officer is that you are still a private citizen. You can't let the badge get to your head, because you are in fact not a police officer. As far as being armed, I agree that if you work in an area with higher numbers of assaults, robbery, narcotics, etc... you can justify a firearm. You have to remember though, that if you have an armed person in your building YOU CALL THE POLICE. You only clear that building if you are instructed to do so by the dispatcher or responding law enforcement officers.

[SEOHopeful1]

Call the police? I'll call my co-workers first to back me up. Then if we can't handle it i'd probably see if the police can back me up.

I wouldn never let the badge go to my head, I know my role and I know that I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

Mayor says you guys are above the law. Gotta have some authority granted

ps. can someone please give me som advise on training and how hard the academy is?

[Tennsix]

I want to get into security because I want to help people and work on the good side of the law. The only reason I want a weapon is because if I'm going to lay my life on the line to protect civilians in malls and theaters and housing projects I'd like to also be able to protect myself, it's not exactly the safest job ya know and I wouldn't feel comfortable clearing a buiding with an armed man inside with only a flashlight.

So you're telling me none of the security training is lateral to police? Like if I went through a security academy and then wanted to be a policeman Id have to do their academy too? thats dumb You'd think at least firearms and handcuffing and basical criminal law and patrol procedures would be accepted.

What about ranks? How long does it take to get to be a sargint or a kernel?
Correct, you would have to attend the police academy. Generally speaking, law enforcement training is more comprehensive then the average security training. Moreover, a recruit?s training continues beyond the academy. A recruit will have to satisfactorily complete field training too. All said, a police recruit receives about one year of basic training before being cleared to work solo or utilize his powers off-duty.

In short, the average security training does not come close to LE standards. Think of it this way. If a fresh out of the academy LEO is not competent enough to jump in a police car go to work, how could a SEO be expected to do it.

[davis002]

Call the police? I'll call my co-workers first to back me up. Then if we can't handle it i'd probably see if the police can back me up.

I wouldn never let the badge go to my head, I know my role and I know that I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

Mayor says you guys are above the law. Gotta have some authority granted

ps. can someone please give me som advise on training and how hard the academy is?

Well in most states, the arriving Police Officers would place you and your co-workers under arrest for a number of things, perhaps an obstruction of justice. You always call the police immediately if you have an active shooter on your hands.

I don't intend for this to seem rude, but Mayor doesn't understand what he is talking about. We as security officers are NOT above the law. We may have a few minor powers when it comes to private property (trespass violations for instance), but that does not make is better than the police. The police can be your greatest ally but you must first display professionalism, respect, ability, and most importantly common sense.

As far as Training and the Academy... Every single company has it's own standards and training programs. The best thing you can do is call them on the phone, and inquire about their hiring standards and expectations.

[The_Mayor]

I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

After 9/11 you bet we do. If anyone disagrees..refer to the blackwater security thread.

[Tennsix]

Call the police? I'll call my co-workers first to back me up. Then if we can't handle it i'd probably see if the police can back me up.

I wouldn never let the badge go to my head, I know my role and I know that I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

Mayor says you guys are above the law. Gotta have some authority granted

ps. can someone please give me som advise on training and how hard the academy is?
Yes, call the police. Failure to do so could result in your being disciplined, arrested, injured, or killed. You should notify the police immediately, even if you have to take direct action.

No, SEO's have no more authority then a private citizen.

The police academy is not rocket science but you do have to apply yourself. If you go in with a know-it-all attitude, don't study, or other wise dick around, you will be tossed out.

Jump over to Officer.Com. Look around and read some of the threads. There is a lot good information regarding police training and related issues.

[davis002]

After 9/11 you bet we do. If anyone disagrees..refer to the blackwater security thread.

Explain how the blackwater security thread even applies to what you are saying... I have worked for Blackwater before, and I don't understand your comparison? Considering that Blackwater is doing now, exactly what it has been doing since pre-9/11. Are you comparing private security operators employed by Blackwater and working in hostile environments on government/private contracts to how you have more powers during your everyday mall patrol routine?

[The_Mayor]

Just pointing out that your blanket statement of "security guard's having no more authority than private citizens" is unfactual.

[Tennsix]

There is an exception to everything. However, we are talking about the average SEO position. For the purposes of this conversation, the answer is no. SEO?s, have no more authority than a private citizen.

SEOHopeful1 has a complete misunderstanding of the criminal justice system.

[davis002]

Just pointing out that your blanket statement of "security guard's having no more authority than private citizens" is unfactual.

It's very true that a handful of states/cities grant on-duty security officers some level of limited arrest powers that is higher than that of a private citizens. Why don't you go on, and explain what powers you have that is different than that of a private citizen?

And answer my Blackwater question, don't avoid it please.

[The_Mayor]

If you truly valued my input and wanted me to answer your questions..then you would behave accordingly..rather than flame.

If your not going to have a friendly attitude with me than I have no desire to speak with you.

In response to your Blackwater question..my answer is "no". If you want anymore than that..than take up your problems with me directly rather than flaming behind my back.

Have a nice day.

[davis002]

If you truly valued my input and wanted me to answer your questions..then you would behave accordingly..rather than flame.

If your not going to have a friendly attitude with me than I have no desire to speak with you.

In response to your Blackwater question..my answer is "no". If you want anymore than that..than take up your problems with me directly rather than flaming behind my back.

Have a nice day.

Unfortunately, All you are doing now is avoiding the question. I am trying to help you prove your knowledge to the rest of the group, by asking you industry-related questions. If you truly care about the private security industry, you would more actively participate in open topical discussions. I understand you are young, and fairly new to this field of work. I simply want to help you avoid the same mistakes we all made when we were younger. It's not your fault, i'm sure someday you will understand and be more wise if you choose to make this a career.

[The_Mayor]

Are you comparing private security operators employed by Blackwater and working in hostile environments on government/private contracts to how you have more powers during your everyday mall patrol routine?

No.








________________________

[davis002]

No.








________________________

You still are avoiding the explanation as to how you feel this:

Originally Posted by SEOHopeful1
I can only do so much but only civilian rights? come on. Security has got to have more than that?

applies to this:

Originally Posted by Mr_Mayor
After 9/11 you bet we do. If anyone disagrees..refer to the blackwater security thread.


Give me your opinon, what does one have to do with the other?

[SEOHopeful1]

WoW I'm starting to realize that security is not just "private police" crazy mayor has me all confused. I thought he was experienced.

Oh well guys keep saving the world, I hope one day I can make it amongst the ranks of the industry. Until then its servin food and mowin lawns.

[N. A. Corbier]

I'm an S/O in St. Pete, Fl. I think this link to the Security Guards Handbook (for Florida) may give you some idea as to what to expect. However, all states are not the same. Also, I haven't updated in a while and the gun law has changed so that we can carry 9mm now. Guess I should fix that...haha.

www.geocities.com/johnniemccoy/HANDBOOK.html

Hehe. Go see Defense Academics in St. Petersburg, if your not G certified with the 9mm. They're a viable alternative to S2 Institute.

[Mr. Security]

Just a thought regarding powers, s/o's vs LE:

When it comes to searching people/bags, security officers can do so when the client stipulates that an individual is not allowed to enter the private building/stadium unless they consent. Of course, they have the right to refuse, but doing so means that they will be denied access. Since employees know that refusal to submit will likely result in suspension/termination, there is pressure for them to go ahead and consent.

A LEO can only search the same employee on the street if they have p/c or ask and are given consent. If the employee said "NO" and p/c did not exist, then the LEO must respect the decision w/o pressure.

All I'm saying is that s/o's MAY have greater search power in the private sector than LEO's have in the public sector.

TENNSIX: Feel free to straighten me out if I'm off-base here.:) I know that no one knows it all, no matter how long they have been on the job.

[N. A. Corbier]

Just a thought regarding powers, s/o's vs LE:

When it comes to searching people/bags, security officers can do so when the client stipulates that an individual is not allowed to enter the private building/stadium unless they consent. Of course, they have the right to refuse, but doing so means that they will be denied access. Since employees know that refusal to submit will likely result in suspension/termination, there is pressure for them to go ahead and consent.

A LEO can only search the same employee on the street if they have p/c or ask and are given consent. If the employee said "NO" and p/c did not exist, then the LEO must respect the decision w/o pressure.

All I'm saying is that s/o's MAY have greater search power in the private sector than LEO's have in the public sector.

TENNSIX: Feel free to straighten me out if I'm off-base here.:) I know that no one knows it all, no matter how long they have been on the job.

I think that sounds about right. Who wants to comment on stop and frisk for LE?

[Tennsix]

You are correct. As a private security officer, you are not a law enforcment agent. If a LEO has PC to search and the suspect declines, the LEO may request a search warrant. IF the warrant is issued, then the search is on. If the suspect offers any resistance while the warrant is being requested, he could be arrested for a resisting or interfence type of charge.

The whole search warrant process is pretty involved so it is generally reserved for more significant situations. There are some circumstances where a warrantless search may be conducted, without consent, based on PC.

However, if a SEO searches under the direction of an LEO he is considered a law enforcement agent.

Exceptions to this would include frisks (pat down for weapons-not a search), public safety concern, evidence being destroyed, search incident to arrest, inevitable discovery, vehicle inventory (tow and impound-not a search).

If the article targeted for search is on the subject's person (pockets, back pack, purse, etc.), it would be discovered incdent to arrest, if the subject interferred with the warrant process (see above)

[Tennsix]

I think that sounds about right. Who wants to comment on stop and frisk for LE?
A frisk is not a search. A LEO may frisk the subject of an investigive stop (Terry V. Ohio). The LEO has to have articulable suspicion (different than PC) to belive the subject could be armed. The LEO may then check the outer areas of clothing for weapons. Any contraband discovered during the frisk is fair game.

[davis002]

A frisk is not a search. A LEO may frisk the subject of an investigive stop (Terry V. Ohio). The LEO has to have articulable suspicion (different than PC) to belive the subject could be armed. The LEO may then check the outer areas of clothing for weapons. Any contraband discovered during the frisk is fair game.

That is very correct...

[N. A. Corbier]

A frisk is not a search. A LEO may frisk the subject of an investigive stop (Terry V. Ohio). The LEO has to have articulable suspicion (different than PC) to belive the subject could be armed. The LEO may then check the outer areas of clothing for weapons. Any contraband discovered during the frisk is fair game.

Right, its like a protective sweep. Its a protective measure, not a search. I know that alot people confuse the two, and figured someone would bring it up. :)

[S/O245]

Most S/O's dont get alot of training. I think that its getting better after 9/11 but still S/O's need more training. The best thing i can say to fellow S/O's is get training your self. Even if its just buying a Training DVD or VHS that can help. I just recently got a training tape sent to me called Ultimate Officer Survival its for Law Enforcement & Security Personnel. Other training such as CPR pay for it your self even if your agency dont train you in it. If you want to be a better S/O and more safe than sometimes you have to get extra training on your own. Sadly alot of Security companies dont have us in thier best interests. Take defense tactics training or buy defense tactics training dvd. If your armed or not defense tactics can help save your life.

As far as the statement about a S/O being arrested because they have a active shooter emergency. Yes you are correct you can be arrested if they want. But thats not saying that they are right. For CCW Permit holders i heard 95 % of the time or so you will be cuffed after a shooting. They have to investigate etc. But the FED Law and Constitution gives us the right to defend our self. So if in the emergency you have to defend others or your self and use deadly force then so be it. Thats what the 2nd amendment is for. I just hope that none of us on this board ever has to use deadly force in our lifetime. Each emergency is different and has to be handled different. Your number one defense tool is ? Your brain. Train the best you can think and use what ever force is needed if any. Another thing is if you carry any type of weapon remember that it can also be used against you. So do some tactics training to keep a subject from getting your gun baton etc.

Stay Safe :)

[Zebra One]

I have never proclaimed to be an "expert on security".....
And your numerous posts prove this fact beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Tennsix]

Most S/O's dont get alot of training. I think that its getting better after 9/11 but still S/O's need more training. The best thing i can say to fellow S/O's is get training your self. Even if its just buying a Training DVD or VHS that can help. I just recently got a training tape sent to me called Ultimate Officer Survival its for Law Enforcement & Security Personnel. Other training such as CPR pay for it your self even if your agency dont train you in it. If you want to be a better S/O and more safe than sometimes you have to get extra training on your own. Sadly alot of Security companies dont have us in thier best interests. Take defense tactics training or buy defense tactics training dvd. If your armed or not defense tactics can help save your life.

As far as the statement about a S/O being arrested because they have a active shooter emergency. Yes you are correct you can be arrested if they want. But thats not saying that they are right. For CCW Permit holders i heard 95 % of the time or so you will be cuffed after a shooting. They have to investigate etc. But the FED Law and Constitution gives us the right to defend our self. So if in the emergency you have to defend others or your self and use deadly force then so be it. Thats what the 2nd amendment is for. I just hope that none of us on this board ever has to use deadly force in our lifetime. Each emergency is different and has to be handled different. Your number one defense tool is ? Your brain. Train the best you can think and use what ever force is needed if any. Another thing is if you carry any type of weapon remember that it can also be used against you. So do some tactics training to keep a subject from getting your gun baton etc.

Stay Safe
And you risk being hit by friendly fire if you go in before the police get there. In an active shooter scenerio, LEO's mission is to actively hunt down and take out (kill) the bad guy(s). If th police do not know you are in there and they see a person with a gun, it could end very badly.

[N. A. Corbier]

It is suicide to respond to an active shooter scenerio without the tools and training that goes into the response. For LE, Security, or Military. If your client requires active shooter response in their contract, then the company needs to look long and hard at proper training.

Critical Intervention Services of Clearwater, Florida, provides Active Shooter Response as part of its Anti-Terrorism Officer program at Tampa Energy Company's Power Plant. They are all armed with pistols and M4 rifles. They are trained to military standards, by contracted trainers, in force protection, active shooter response, and anti-terrorism operations.

The police KNOW that CIS is there, with more firepower than they will initially bring, and they know what CIS looks like. (Believe me, they know.) They know also until they setup and take over, the port security plan states that the utility security force is actively running the show and protecting the facility from the advisary force. You don't mount up and go in without thinking, because you'll probally end up in a running fire fight with the bad guys AND the heavily armed and armored security force.

Now, lets take the other road, a lone security officer with a handgun rushing in to an active shooter area, not telling anyone, trying to take the bad guy down. Without coordination with others, the police have no idea there's a good guy in there.

Like anything else, active shooter response needs coordinated. In the initial moments of a shooting situation, a security team which is properly trained and outfitted can move in and take out the bad guy before more lives are lost while the police arrive, setup, contain, and then move in. This is what the client is afraid of, and paying for - immediate response by the on-scene force to a shooting. Taking the bad guy down/out without having to wait for police response.

If the police know that there's a trained security force running around in there, they are equipped, and in contact with a command point, they know they have options. If the BG is neutralized, they can order the team to pull out. If it isn't, they can give intelligence while falling back to be replaced by SWAT. If they're static and protecting downed people, then they can provide casuality information, intelligence, and hold their position till SWAT makes entry and evacs casualties, then the security team can fall back or hold position.

It all depends on training, coordination, tactics, and trust. I've known individual police officers who would cancel backup because I was there already. Once the security force has proven to the police that they're trustworthy, cooperation starts.

[S/O245]

Oh i agree that you need to wait for back up if you can. But also we all know each issue at hand is different always. And if you have to take some sort of action you cant wait. Im saying if u must do something. If you were to hesitate to use the proper force than you may end up dead or having another dead etc.

Another thing is the following say you must do something you have no other option and you dont others may be able to file a lawsuit against you for not taking the proper action.

By my other post i dont mean go playing hero and do it all alone etc. I only mean if you must do something.

Stay Safe All :)

[N. A. Corbier]

I look at it like this. If you have a shot, and you can take it, and it will end the encounter - do it. But, if its over your head (And yes, it can be over the head of a police officer, too, your both usually armed with a semi-automatic pistol and 2-4 extra mags.) then do what you can while falling back. Falling back dosen't just mean "run outside screaming gunman gunman gunman!" Providing armed cover for people to evacuate under, if even just a few, is a good use of your weapon. Taking up a static position to protect wounded, or to protect those attempting to move and treat wounded.

Unforunately, there's one bad thing about this. Your alone. You can cover about, say, 45 degrees of fire accurately without having to reorient your weapon. A wall provides 180 degrees of protection, but there's still 90 you can't see without constantly switching views. In short, it sucks.

One, awhile back, I had an unarmed probationary officer with me, on an armed site. When we were in the office, trying to do paperwork and eat food, we heard a shotgun go off. Things happened very quickly - my probie was useless in the response - but was able to call the police. At least, he would of been, if he hadn't panicked and called the SHERIFF NON-EMERGENCY LINE programmed into his personal phone.

From the choke point at the front door, to the laundromat next to the office, to kids running arround the playgronud behind the office, to turning the corner and engaging a kid armed with a shotgun, I was constantly having to check my rear because my I had no cover. I was told that if I hadn't stopped to consistantly check my rear, I'd of gotten killed, as the aggressors were roaming around looking for another kid to kill, and were to the rear of me.

The only thing I'm thankful for was that there was no fear, the fear happened afterward. I don't know if I could of safely operated in that situation, having to constantly sort threat/non-threat and other data while keeping track of line of sight, cover, and muzzle position.

The most insane moment of my life was when I rounded the corner, bracketed a kid with a 12 gauge, and shouted commands. Most of those kids liked to believe that a .38 caliber revolver wouldn't hurt them. This one took off running. I was told by some of the resident witnesses that I looked like I was ready to kill him. (Other said I should of, but he wasn't a lethal force threat at the time.)

Alot of residents were pissed off that it took the police one hour and twelve minutes to get a car out there. Quite frankly, I wasn't pissed at the police - it wasn't in progress, the bad guys had fled the scene, and we didn't find any dead/injured lying in the playground.

[S/O245]

I hope that I never get put in a emergency where I have to make a decision to use force or not. I would hope with the training I have had and will have will help me. I hope my training kicks in when and if I need it. The way iam im big on training and training i can get like i said before even if its training dvds or so you still learn alot.

Im not Armed Certified by the OPOTC as of yet to be armed on duty. Currently my post contract is un armed anyway. I have CCW. But does any of the Training Academies or Schools teach the students how to keep subjects from taking his or her gun ? I think if not it should be taught. Because if you will be carrying a weapon you need to know how to keep the bad guy from getting it.

Stay Safe All :)

[Bill Warnock]

I mean no insult, but if you have any doubts about your reaction or timing, please leave an address. The least I can do is to send flowers.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[Bill Warnock]

I mean no insult, but if you have any doubts about your reaction or timing, please leave an address. The least I can do is send flowers.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[CAR54]

Speaking of rough gang infested neighborhoods (which we were around 5 pages back). In the area I work (Inglewood, Ca) there's a number of both Black and Latin gangs operating, though for the most part they're mainly concerned with rival gangs and leave nervous white over-caffeinated security guards alone (that would be me).

One problem I do have here though is the old ladies in those motorized chairs buzzing up and down the sidewalks in front of my bank, they are really quite a hazard. There's a group of 3 black ladies that I see about once a week all "driving" different types of chairs with names like "little Rascal". Often they'll ride in tandem (side by side) and take up the entire sidewalk, when they do, look out, they really seem to think they OWN the side walk. I've considered confronting them but I have no back up plus it's an unarmed post. Generally I just head back inside the bank when I see them coming.

[AASC Colorado]

Somehow the initial issue got lost among active shooter and gangs and bickering. Truth be told, the level and training and certification differs from state to state. The same holds true for LEO (although POST came closer to standardization). In the private sector, training can vary to each company...from none at all to extensive.

I would not recommend you to security if your worried about carrying a gun or if your going to just be a "wanna-be" cop. There are enough of these already that give the whole industry a bad name and puts LEO's on edge around you. I would recommend starting as unarmed, because armed newbies have a tendency not to use thier brains and instincts as much as those who "are defenseless."

Do some research among local companies around you.

And for the record SEO and LEO aren't better or worse than the other, each has thier stengths and weaknesses...depending on the situation.

[davido]

I you want to be a cop Join the Air Force, They might over look the drug offence, if not, the army is a better chance. That is if you really had your heart set on becoming a cop. your young you have alot of options, if you are looking for excitement, I don't get much here, mall security there are lots of Opportunity's to meet the ladies....

[S/O245]

As far as carrying a firearm if thats what you want to do you can do it. The 2nd Amendment says so. If you are lawful and non mental etc. Not everyone wants to be armed. Some do. My self I think if your not armed and something happens to where you need a gun all i can say is that the un armed officer should hope that the PO's arrive to them quick enough. Its not about packing a gun. or feeling i dont know that your big or anything. Its just a tool for safety. A tool you need to train on and hope you never use. A tool such as a screw drivier is something you only use when needed. The same with the gun. If you just want to carry to feel big then thats wrong. But if you want to carry for defense thats fine. I sometimes when i carry CCW hate it. It is nothing but a pain in the butt sometimes lol. But if something ever happens and i need it to survive. But again im not saying everyone should be armed. Only those who are trained and want to carry.

Stay Safe All :)

[Mr. Security]

I would recommend starting as unarmed, because armed newbies have a tendency not to use thier brains and instincts as much as those who "are defenseless."

Excellent advice. When you have no choice other than thinking your way out of a situation, you learn valuable skills in managing/diffusing confrontation. One police officer said that because of his small stature, he had to learn how to calm subjects down to minimize the number of occasions were he had to use physical force. He got so good at it that even when an arrest had to be made, the subjects cooperated because they sensed that he treated them with dignity and respect. Won't always work, but it has helped me more than once when I had to deal with a person who manifested an altered mental status. I just let them talk themselves out, listened empathetically, and wished them a good day. They left w/o the situation escalating. We both win when it works out that way. :)

[CAR54]

Here's a basic question.

While taking my exposed weapon training class here in California (security guard) I was told we could ONLY wear the weapon while in uniform and going to or from the site, or to a gun range as long as we're in uniform, and that's it.

Now the way I understood this was we could NOT wear the weapon if we leave the site to go to lunch, or to run errands on our lunch breaks. But I see armed security guards shopping in 7/11's, banks and diners all the time and they can't all be moonlighting off duty police or working that site.

If there's no place to leave the weapon on the post and you don't want to leave it in the car how do most armed security officers handle this. What is the general rule here? Will a police officer stop and question an armed security officer if he feels the guard is off site??

[S/O245]

I once knew of a police officer who had a good friend he had known for yrs in the city he was a officer in. He said this subject had got pretty drunk and started alot of trouble with people. a 911 call was made he was first unit to the call. Instead of using hand to hand combatives to fight because the subject was starting to become aggressive he un snaped his pepper spray holder and pulled it out and talked to him and just he said dont make me do this jason he said that 3 times then the subject jason knew that he was about to have some sort of force used against him. Jason decided to calm down and it was over. No one was hurt and the officer issued some a criminal ticket and it was done with.

The question about a armed s/o carrying off post. I guess if the comp issues the weapon and tells u we dont want you carryin to from home etc. I feel that is a officer is certified to be armed they should be able to carry to and from home in uniform if they want. Also if a Ofc has CCW then they should be able to carry off duty. But again if they issue the weapon then the comp arguement would be thats our property. But if a S/O has his personal weapon I feel they should be able to carry to and from.

As far as them saying you cant carry when on lunch break etc. If that comp dont provide a lockbox of some sort of a weapon really keeping a gun inside a car is not as safe as they think. I have read many stories of criminals that break into a car and steal a police officers weapons for example they just came from training and they office had them locked up in the car. It happend in Dayton Ohio they not only took 2 smei auto handguns i think the story in the paper said they took a MP5 i belive. So i would say on duty it would be better to let them carry and not leave in the car.

I once heard about a not so bright police officer from another dept and i wont name the pd LOL. this officer left his/her gun and badge in the trunk of the car over night. Well this officer called to report the gun and badge was stolen. And when our officers and sgt arrived on scene they asked him/her why in the world but used other words did u leave a gun in the trunk. Not something that i would want to do.

Stay Safe All :)

Stay Safe All :)

[CAR54]

Well Uncle Drooly that was dam funny. The sad part is most of it's TRUE!!

[N. A. Corbier]

Here's a basic question.

While taking my exposed weapon training class here in California (security guard) I was told we could ONLY wear the weapon while in uniform and going to or from the site, or to a gun range as long as we're in uniform, and that's it.

Now the way I understood this was we could NOT wear the weapon if we leave the site to go to lunch, or to run errands on our lunch breaks. But I see armed security guards shopping in 7/11's, banks and diners all the time and they can't all be moonlighting off duty police or working that site.

If there's no place to leave the weapon on the post and you don't want to leave it in the car how do most armed security officers handle this. What is the general rule here? Will a police officer stop and question an armed security officer if he feels the guard is off site??

Ok, in most states, this is not a company issue, this is a state authority issue. We'll go with Florida, though I'm sure California has the same idea.

You are a private citizen, given the extraordinary power of openly carrying a weapon, correct? Wrong. A property owner may designate agents who may carry openly in his steed, on his property. Just as you can walk around your house with a gun on, you may walk around your business with a gun on, you can tell your family and employees to do the same.

EXCEPT third-party (and uniformed in-house in some states) security personnel. Originally, the state required that you be on your client property for your Class "G" Firearms Permit to work. If you were off your property, you were illegally openly carrying a firearm. If you were on public property, you were illegally openly carrying a firearm. Florida's Division of Licensing, when asked "Why dosen't my CCW work in security?" advised that because you have the awesome responsiblity of protecting others, you must be held to a higher standard (And only allowed to carry up to two .38 special revolvers, or one .38 special revolver and one shotgun if your client sufficiently scares the state.)

The state has actually stated, at times, that mobile patrol companies must travel with their weapons securely encased, their "G" permit did not apply, when traveling from account to account. They must, then, on property, place the weapon in the holster - or else they're violating the contract stating that armed security employees will be provided. Take it off, leave.

Police Officers, who are more apt to enforce these sorts of things than Division of Licensing, Bureau of Enforcement Agents (State Inspectors), could really care less if a security person has a weapon trunked or in their holster. The general public, of course, dosen't want that gun anywhere near them, or they don't care either. Walking into 7-11 with a revolver can result in free coffee, or being ordered to leave under threat of arrest by the clerk who is pissed off you get a gun and they don't.

Having watched a 7-11 clerk throw a security employee out, only to have a state trooper throw a ballistic fit at the clerk for messing with a uniform, I've always found the 7-11 clerk amusing.

This is less about "The company dosen't want you to carry," but indeed, they don't. Your weapon, company or personal, isn't what gets them in trouble. Its being in a company uniform - the public knows who to sue. You are a representative of the company, and a good lawyer will try to get the company for vicarious liability. Even if you are not at work (off-duty and on-duty are police terms because they are at work anywhere in their geographic location, security companies have fixed places of employment (sites)...), you are wearing identification that can be used to pin the incident on the company should you ever be required to use that weapon to protect yourself or another. They have liability insurance to cover your doing it on the job, but the insurance won't pay off if its not job related.

This is also why your supposed to remove your uniform shirt or cover it up when driving to and from work - you are not a walking target and liability magnet for the employer's worker's compensation and liability insurance policies.

The reality, of course, is that a police officer will most likely not know the law as it applies to security (Few read it), and will just expect you get to carry whenever, wherever. They only care when your causing a problem. Then, its a doubly annoying issue, they have to go and find the law about security open carry and see if your violating it, and if its actually a criminal issue.

[S/O245]

From being a NRA member i know that in the State of Oklahoma i think the OK State a few companies decided to fire a group of employees for storing un loaded firearms in his/her trunk. I think the law in that states says you can store them in the trunk un loaded. I guess that day big Management decided they would do a search for drugs but this was not why they wanted to do it. They called the local sheriffs dept and deputies and may have been possible even the sheriff came.

When the Officers arrived to the scene i think the comp wanted them to run lic plates and then once the officers found out why they wanted to search they told them we wont help you. If the officers had helped in the search they could have been in violation of persons rights. So the comp I think forced security officers to help in the search they made employees open up trunks anyone with a firearm was fired. Also it was the first day of deer season. So they know alot of hunters had already hunted or would be going at the end of the day. They fired them and violated the employees rights. I think the group of employees with the NRA then filed a lawsuit against the company. And i also think a law was passed or about to be passed that say no comp is allowed to keep a employee from having it in the trunk. I cant remember if that law already passed or not. I know that the big corps are trying to fight it. One big comp that is suppose to have done the same thing is AOL. I think this one big comp in OK state fired 40 in one day. One of them was about to retire. I dont know if the OK law applies to its S/O's or not.


Stay Safe All :)